Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7

[Reader]

Collier: There's no mistaking who's boss

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12015/1203653-150.stm

..........."It grieves me very much," Penn State President Rodney Erickson said this week, "when I hear people say, 'The Penn State Scandal.' This is not Penn State. This is the Sandusky scandal."

That's what grieves him, huh?

Here's what grieves me: that apparently neither Erickson nor anyone on the Board of Trustees told anyone on the coaching search committee to tell Bill O'Brien, "Look, we're in the middle of a child rape scandal here. The place has to be scrubbed clean of anyone who could have had any knowledge of Sandusky's alleged pathologies -- not just anyone who did have knowledge because we think we've already done that scrubbing, but anyone who could have had any knowledge -- and therefore, no one in the football program is a candidate for future employment, not Tom Bradley, not Larry Johnson, not Ron Vanderlinden, nobody. Build your staff with that in mind."

Penn State clearly said nothing like that. Instead, Penn State (and, remember, this is not a Penn State scandal), let the head football coach handle it, which is exactly what it's been doing since the late '60s, or exactly what plunged it into this bog in the first place.
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Penn State, after all this, still wants to let football run the show. Mind you, Penn State is not alone in this. It's a common malignancy, ultimately traceable directly to various college presidents coast to coast. ............It was Gee, you'll remember, when asked if head coach Jim Tressel might be fired last year in the wake of NCAA violations, said "I'm just hopeful the coach doesn't dismiss me."

Tressel was fired, but, unfortunately, before he got around to firing Gee.
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No less disinterested an observer than the U.S. Secretary of Education weighed in with an interesting percentage at midweek: zero.

"Zero, and I'm 100 percent sure of that," said Arne Duncan of the percentage of bowl money BCS conferences set aside for educational or student-enhancement funds. "It's just misplaced priorities.

"The narrative for 2012 in college sports is all about the deal, all about the brand. It's about big-time college football programs saying, 'show me the money.' Too often, large, successful programs seem to exist in an insular world, a world of their own. Their football and basketball players, sometimes even their coaches, are given license to behave in ways that would be unacceptable elsewhere in higher education or in society at large.
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But with Alabama's behavior, the USC Scandal, the Ohio State Scandal, the Florida International Scandal, the Florida State Scandal, the University of Central Florida Scandal, the Georgia Tech Scandal and the Boise State Scandal (all just in football), now joined by the granddaddy of them all, the Penn State Scandal, you would imagine college sports could and should see itself at a major policy intersection.

 

[BigCat]

In the past month there was a statement by someone that after his firing, Paterno read or listened to only one negative news story and then stopped following them. Fighting cancer is a major reason to shelter one's self, but if this is true in indicates a powerful capacity to distance himself from things he didn't want to hear.

I wonder if the 2002 outcome might have differed if the rape had happened on a Tuesday night, so that McQuearry told Paterno in his office on a working day morning, not a weekend? Silly thought...

Paterno told Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post that in 2002, when McQueary reported to him what he saw in the shower, he had never heard of "rape and a man." Keep in mind that it was in early 2002 when the Boston Globe published a series of Pultizer Prize winning articles on the Catholic sexual abuse scandal. It's hard to believe that Paterno, a member of the Knights of Columbus, had never heard of the scandal. But if we take him at his word, then he clearly had the capacity to block out bad news.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Paterno told Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post that in 2002, when McQueary reported to him what he saw in the shower, he had never heard of "rape and a man." Keep in mind that it was in early 2002 when the Boston Globe published a series of Pultizer Prize winning articles on the Catholic sexual abuse scandal. It's hard to believe that Paterno, a member of the Knights of Columbus, had never heard of the scandal. But if we take him at his word, then he clearly had the capacity to block out bad news.

It never effected him directly, and McQueary said he was uncomfortable and didn't get graphic.

Paterno was 77 and a father figure; I can understand McQueary not being graphic. McQueary said he he didn't tell Paterno specifically what he saw; Schultz and Curley say that Paterno was not graphic in his description when he talked with them.

Reader, with all due respect, the head football coach properly told his superior and the head of the police (who didn't do anything).

 

[BigCat]

It never effected him directly, and McQueary said he was uncomfortable and didn't get graphic.

Paterno was 77 and a father figure; I can understand McQueary not being graphic. McQueary said he he didn't tell Paterno specifically what he saw; Schultz and Curley say that Paterno was not graphic in his description when he talked with them.

J.J., I don't disagree with that. I should have provided the entire quote to make my point clearer.

“You know, he didn’t want to get specific,” Paterno said. “And to be frank with you I don’t know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...ky-scandal/2012/01/13/gIQA08e4yP_story_3.html

Paterno is suggesting that, in 2002, he had never heard of "rape and a man" in any context. Like he didn't even know such things happened.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J., I don't disagree with that. I should have provided the entire quote to make my point clearer.



Paterno is suggesting that, in 2002, he had never heard of "rape and a man" in any context. Like he didn't even know such things happened.

I don't know if he's referring to ever, or within Penn State or the football program. Obviously, you hear about it, in prison; it's a prime reason not to go there. Even in 1998, there wasn't a suggestion of rape.

Where there were claims of rape, involving the football program, it was with a woman.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Interesting:

While Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says that her office won't file charges against Joe Paterno for not reporting the alleged child sexual abuse by former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, the 84-year-old coach could eventually face criminal charges for perjury, obstruction of justice and violating the state's Child Protective Services Law. Paterno could also become a defendant in civil lawsuits filed by Sandusky's alleged victims. Those lawsuits could allege that Paterno negligently failed to prevent a third party with whom he had a supervisory relationship (Sandusky) from committing abuse.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...nn/11/09/joe.paterno/index.html#ixzz1knZ2Z4fb


The BBM certainly indicates that these lawsuits would apply to a time that Paterno was supervising JS and was aware of the abuses, which would have to be before his retirement in 1999.

I think that is more the press speculating, wrongly.

 

[BigCat]

Reader, with all due respect, the head football coach properly told his superior and the head of the police (who didn't do anything).

Curley was not in reality Paterno's "superior."

Mr. Curley's tenure as athletic director has been marked by remarkable on-field success and strong financial gains, earning respect from colleagues nationwide. But at times, he struggled to take control of his expansive program and often lacked the power to assert real change.

He twice tried to remove football coach Joe Paterno in 2004, but ultimately lacked the political capital it took to oust the legendary leader. After Mr. Curley and university President Graham Spanier visited Mr. Paterno's home in November 2004 to ask him to retire, the coach said no. "They didn't quite understand where I was coming from or what it took to get a football program going ...", Mr. Paterno told a Post-Gazette reporter a year later.


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: "Curley's athletic department earned much respect"

Let me also add that Curley grew up on the street, McKee, where Paterno lived, and their families were close friends (I learned that info from reading Penn State football message boards). Curley was handpicked by Paterno to be the athletic director.

The Penn State athletic director, snarled in perhaps the biggest college scandal in American history - said to have covered up multiple acts of child sexual abuse and then lying to a grand jury about it - is a State College man. Curley's family is a Penn State family. His father was a senior administrator at the university. Tim Curley was born and raised there, and graduated from State College Area High School, where he was a quarterback. He was a decent talent, maybe decent enough to play in Division II. But the lure of becoming a Penn State man was too great.

Curley made the Nittany Lions as a walk-on before suffering an injury that ended his playing career. He would then become Joe Paterno's handpicked protege, serving for years as a graduate assistant, then working his way up the athletic administration rock wall, climbing until he was positioned in 1993 to succeed Penn State's longtime, old-school athletic director, Jim Tarman.

When it was decided, with much lobbying from Paterno, that Curley would be chosen as the next AD, at Tarman's retirement event Paterno got up and told Tarman, "The best I can do for you tonight, Jim, is to give you Tim Curley."

Philadelphia Inquirer: "Blinded by Penn State's Utopian Vision"

 

[ThoughtFox]

:cow: :cow: :cow:

Whatever Paterno's job description was in relation to the other guys as Penn State, he pulled the strings. He was the Puppet Master, and not the other way around. That's one of the great tragedies of this case - the importance of football given precedence over the lives of innocent children that were ruined.

To put it all down to someone's job description or some office chart just doesn't begin to explain the enormous injustice of the way they handled this. It's just a bunch of lies and excuses on their part.

For Joe Pa to keep saying "I didn't know" is patently absurd. Ignorance may be bliss, but it's no excuse under the law. :twocents:

 

[Reader]

Thinking Curley knew isn't evidence that Curley knew; Schultz did know.

Schultz indicated that, in regard to the 1998 incident he talked with Courtney, Harmon, Gricar, and Spanier, but not Curley or Paterno (from the GJ testimony read at preliminary, p. 217). Harmon indicated he didn't talk to Gricar directly.

On p. 190, Curley said he had not heard about the 1998 until the grand jury told him. He did tell Spanier about the incident.

This GJ presentment that is quoted over and over as proof of who knew what and when as told by Schultz and Curley is a summary (not the full transcript) of the same grand jury that indicted these 2 men for PERJURY, for which they will be going to trial soon. As far as I'm concerned their word doesn't mean much regarding the truth of what happened.

 

[Reader]

Interesting:

While Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says that her office won't file charges against Joe Paterno for not reporting the alleged child sexual abuse by former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, the 84-year-old coach could eventually face criminal charges for perjury, obstruction of justice and violating the state's Child Protective Services Law.

Paterno could also become a defendant in civil lawsuits filed by Sandusky's alleged victims. Those lawsuits could allege that Paterno negligently failed to prevent a third party with whom he had a supervisory relationship (Sandusky) from committing abuse.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...nn/11/09/joe.paterno/index.html#ixzz1knZ2Z4fb


The BBM certainly indicates that these lawsuits would apply to a time that Paterno was supervising JS and was aware of the abuses, which would have to be before his retirement in 1999.

I think that is more the press speculating, wrongly.

Note: paragraphs made to separate the 2 statements and BBM added

I think the press statement in para.2 is more likely to be correct since they were obviously talking to and getting information directly from the AG's office.

Regarding the 1st para., the AG herself states Paterno could also be charged with perjury, obstruction of justice and violating the state's CPS law.

1/ My question is perjury about what? About what he knew and when about the abuse in 1998? in 2002? or both incidents? About who told what to whom and when? about what actions he took with the incidents?

2/The AG also thinks he could be charged with obstruction of justice defined by wiki as:

"The crime of obstruction of justice, in United States jurisdictions, refers to the crime of interfering with the work of police, investigators, regulatory agencies, prosecutors, or other (usually government) officials."

How did Paterno obstruct justice? Obviously the AG thinks he actively did something to interfere with the investigation of the case or cases.

3/ Although the AG did not charge Paterno with not reporting the abuse since he did the bare minimum requirement of passing it along to his 'superiors', they obviously were considering charges against him of violating the state's CPS law since he did not meet his obligation as a mandatory reporter to report it to the state agency as required.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Sorry if this has been posted before:

Words matter in Penn State perjury case

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/29/justice/sandusky-witness-words/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

as a transcript shows, each time McQueary's story was told it became less specific, until others at the end of the line reacted as if what he had seen was no big deal.

It will be up to the courts to sort out whether McQueary pulled punches in telling the story, whether the others lied, or whether they heard only what they wanted to hear.

~~~~~

McQueary acknowledged that he did not give Curley and Schultz the graphic details. The transcripts reveal that they did not push for details either, relying for the most part on what Paterno had told them at the previous meeting.

That left room for different interpretations, said Levenson, the law professor. McQueary testified he couldn't be sure whether there was penetration, "so it leaves it free for others to characterize it as 'horseplay' or 'wrestling,'" Levenson said.

Much more at Link...

 

[Reader]

No, ThoughtFox, that article has not been posted yet...very good analysis, thanks! Here's another one from CNN today:

For men and boys, a silver lining amid sex abuse scandals

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/29/us/male-sex-abuse/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Advocates and therapists for survivors of male sex abuse say the recent scandals at Penn State and elsewhere may help men who were abused as children, and boys being abused today, step out of the shadows and get the support they deserve.

They also hope society can become better educated about the issue.

"The allegations have kick-started a public dialogue about sexual violence and the community's responsibility," says Jennifer Marsh, who directs hotlines at RAINN, the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network. "It's a conversation we have to have and can't shy away from."

If increased Web traffic and calls to hotlines are any indication, the tide for men and boys may, in fact, be turning.

More at link...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This GJ presentment that is quoted over and over as proof of who knew what and when as told by Schultz and Curley is a summary (not the full transcript) of the same grand jury that indicted these 2 men for PERJURY, for which they will be going to trial soon. As far as I'm concerned their word doesn't mean much regarding the truth of what happened.

Actually, I am quoting the testimony at that point, including McQueary's testimony about what he told Paterno. There is also Harmon's testimony about who he told, and didn't tell.

I doubt that Paterno could pull strings at the DA's Office, which handled the 1998 incident, even assuming he knew.

I just checked McQueary's testimony. He did tell Curley and Schultz the details. I think it is on pages 26-35.

McQueary described Paterno as being shocked and being the one who said he had to tell.

Now, I don't think McQueary is lying.

 

[Reader]

Actually, I did not mention questioning McQueary...only what Schultz and Curley lied about to the GJ.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Actually, I did not mention questioning McQueary...only what Schultz and Curley lied about to the GJ.

Yes, but I'm citing McQueary, and he is saying the same things Schultz and Curley are saying on this point.

 

[StellarsJay]

This commencement speech that Joe P. gave in 1973 (he was 45) is popping up in stories.


http://www.la.psu.edu/documents/Paterno1973CommencementSpeech.pdf
Excerpt:

"I chuckle at people who blame the “system” for our problems, just as I laugh at those who claim that we should have blind faith in our government and our institutions. What is this notorious “system”? In my game, people talk about offensive formations as the cure-all. After we lost to Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl, many people asked, “Are you going to switch to the wishbone formation?” Believe me, it isn’t the plays or the offensive system, which gets the job done. It is the quality of the players which makes the formation effective. And, it is you who make the organization work for you and you who will become victims of this system, if you fail to execute your responsibilities to yourself and to your fellow human beings. You have a part to play and, if you loaf or quit, don’t sit back and complain that our method is no good. If each of us is easily seduced by expediency, by selfishness, by ambition regardless of cost to our principles, then the spectacle of Watergate will surely mark the end of this grand experiment in democracy.

"One of the tragedies of Watergate is to see so many bright young men, barely over thirty, who have so quickly prostituted their honor and decency in order to get ahead, to be admired, to stay on the “team.” These same young people within the short period of the last ten years sat in convocations such as this. They were ready to change the world. They didn’t trust the over-thirty generation. I warn you – don’t underestimate the world – it can corrupt quickly and completely."

 

[Reader]

Sandusky to learn abuse accusers' names this week

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=<[email protected]>&ps=1011

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — Former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky will learn by the end of the week the names of the 10 young men he is charged with having sexually abused, according to a court document filed late Monday by state prosecutors.

The attorney general's office said that the alleged victims' names will be delivered to Sandusky's lawyer Joe Amendola by the close of business Friday, a process that would apparently avoid disclosure through public court records.

More at link...

 

[Reader]

AG requests out-of-county jury for Sandusky trial


HARRISBURG, Pa. – State prosecutors are asking the judge in the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case to bring in a jury from another county, saying it's needed because of pretrial publicity and the prominent role Penn State plays in its local community.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/3...l+(Internal+-+US+Latest+-+Text)#ixzz1l4kBXHuf

 

[Reader]

Paterno family plans to sell DVDs of memorial


STATE COLLEGE, Pa. – Joe Paterno's family says they'll be selling copies of the coach's memorial service and donating the proceeds to charity.




Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/01/30/paterno-family-plans-to-sell-dvds-memorial/#ixzz1l4kgTyiM

 

[Pensfan]

A judge is scheduled to hear arguments in two weeks about whether Sandusky's bail can be modified to see his grand children and to travel around the county to help a private investigator.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/01/prosecutors_want_out-of-county.html

UGH! Sandusky wants out of his home confinement and electric monitoring so he can travel around the country with his private investigator?
NO!!!!! This is nuts! His home confinement was part of his terms of release with his bail. He is a danger to society!