"personal hygeine" of JB

[Albert18]

We know from the soiled pants in the bathroom that JonBenet's bottom was dirty. She did not bathe Christmas day.

This begs the question. What was Patsy thinking?

Patsy didn't bathe JonBenet before the party on the 25th. They got home so late that night it doesn't look like there was a planned bath before going to bed. They were leaving early the 26th, so JonBenet wouldn't be bathed in the morning. This is with a little girl who had a known problem.

Maybe if they had stayed home ALONE once in a while instead of galavanting all over the place, there would have been time for a bath. How about some quiet family time. (This is something I think you can blame on John)

 

[Ames]

I am not dismissing it Ames...just the discussion of douching. Patsy did have her hands full with her six-year-old still wetting the bed....

Let's not forget Linda Wilcox's statement that Burke wet the bed at that age too. John Ramsey told LE that his older children wet the bed....

A family of bedwetters.

Patsy was at the end of her rope Christmas night and JonBenet's soiled bottom and the fact that she would not cooperate when Patsy wanted to clean her up led to this horrible accident. That is my theory.

Why would Patsy douch JonBenet for soiling? JonBenet's genital area was wiped down with a cloth.

We know from the soiled pants in the bathroom that JonBenet's bottom was dirty. She did not bathe Christmas day. She changed into her Gap outfit for the dinner party at the Whites.

Now as to who dressed JonBenet is a question I have not heard answered. I don't recall LE asking Patsy if she personally dressed JonBenet that evening. I know they had a tiff over a red turtleneck but that is the extent of it.

I believe that there was no douching involved....you don't douch someone for soiling themselves. If douching was something Patsy did, I'm sure JonBenet would have brought something like that up to someone.

I agree...this is my theory too.

The poster's that believe in the douching theory...believe that Patsy may have douched JB...(causing the enlarged opening of her vagina, and the erosion)....because she was sick and tired of her soiling and wetting herself, not only at night...but also during the day. So, she MAY have told JB...okay...you keep doing this, and I am going to keep douching you. Maybe she did it for two reasons....to cleanse her...and as punishment for wetting and soiling herself. Maybe...maybe not...I am still on the fence about the douching.

The dirty pants with the soiled underwear inside, was actually found on the floor of her bedroom. Regardless....I cannot BELIEVE that Patsy didn't make JB take a bath after that!!!!! JonBenet must have dressed herself, because Patsy said in her interview...and I will be glad to look it up and post it, if you want me to....that JB had at FIRST put on a dress and then changed into the Gap Shirt and black pants to wear to the Whites..so she changed her mind about what she was wearing. I don't know where the red turtleneck fits in.....IMO...there was never a fight about her wearing the red turtleneck to the Whites. I believe that the red turtleneck was placed on her before bed (possibly to save time the next morning, when they were getting ready early, for their trip)....and that when she wet the bed that night...she got the turtleneck wet, and that is why it was balled up on the bathroom counter. That is why Patsy at first says...that JB was put to bed in her red turtleneck...she slipped up..and then changed it to she wore her Gap shirt to bed that night.


It appears that JB dressed herself....

23 TRIP DeMUTH: After she bathed
24 though on the 24th, she would have had clean
25 underwear on after that?
0240
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, yeah.
2 I am sure she would have had clean
3 underwear on the 25th, though, she'd just not
4 have taken a bath.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: She would have
6 changed them Christmas morning?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Or Christmas
8 afternoon, getting dressed. Christmas morning,
9 you know (indicating a noise).

 

[coloradokares]

I am not dismissing it Ames...just the discussion of douching. Patsy did have her hands full with her six-year-old still wetting the bed....

Let's not forget Linda Wilcox's statement that Burke wet the bed at that age too. John Ramsey told LE that his older children wet the bed....

A family of bedwetters.

Patsy was at the end of her rope Christmas night and JonBenet's soiled bottom and the fact that she would not cooperate when Patsy wanted to clean her up led to this horrible accident. That is my theory.

Why would Patsy douch JonBenet for soiling? JonBenet's genital area was wiped down with a cloth.

We know from the soiled pants in the bathroom that JonBenet's bottom was dirty. She did not bathe Christmas day. She changed into her Gap outfit for the dinner party at the Whites.

Now as to who dressed JonBenet is a question I have not heard answered. I don't recall LE asking Patsy if she personally dressed JonBenet that evening. I know they had a tiff over a red turtleneck but that is the extent of it.

I believe that there was no douching involved....you don't douch someone for soiling themselves. If douching was something Patsy did, I'm sure JonBenet would have brought something like that up to someone.

Not that it matters but I had heard of the suspicion regarding the corporal cleaning way before I knew these forums existed. Douching was a part of the suspicions. I could elaborate but I dont feel the need. You have the right to believe watever you wish as long as that is consistent with all the evidence. There was however hymen erosion and such that did occur. Others also have that right to what they believe caused that hymen damage.

 

[Solace]

Not that it matters but I had heard of the suspicion regarding the corporal cleaning way before I knew these forums existed. Douching was a part of the suspicions. I could elaborate but I dont feel the need. You have the right to believe watever you wish as long as that is consistent with all the evidence. There was however hymen erosion and such that did occur. Others also have that right to what they believe caused that hymen damage.

I agree CK.

 

[Ames]

Not that it matters but I had heard of the suspicion regarding the corporal cleaning way before I knew these forums existed. Douching was a part of the suspicions. I could elaborate but I dont feel the need. You have the right to believe watever you wish as long as that is consistent with all the evidence. There was however hymen erosion and such that did occur. Others also have that right to what they believe caused that hymen damage.

And I put alot of stock in what you have read, or heard....because you lived in Boulder...and you KNOW people.

 

[DeeDee249]

I read that PR does admit to arguing with JBR about wearing the red turtleneck. PR wanted to go to the White's in matching outfits. PR wore a red sweater, red/black/white fleece jacket and black velvet pants. She wanted JBR to wear the red turtleneck and black velvet pants (she did wear these). JBR wanted to wear the white star Gap shirt. PR gave in.

I just don't think PR put that much emphasis on daily bathing, for herself OR her daughter. She did put a lot of emphasis on appearance, with make-up,hair, dress, etc. PR's home was the same way- like a Monet. (from far away things looks good, but up close it's a big ole mess.

 

[Ames]

I read that PR does admit to arguing with JBR about wearing the red turtleneck. PR wanted to go to the White's in matching outfits. PR wore a red sweater, red/black/white fleece jacket and black velvet pants. She wanted JBR to wear the red turtleneck and black velvet pants (she did wear these). JBR wanted to wear the white star Gap shirt. PR gave in.

I just don't think PR put that much emphasis on daily bathing, for herself OR her daughter. She did put a lot of emphasis on appearance, with make-up,hair, dress, etc. PR's home was the same way- like a Monet. (from far away things looks good, but up close it's a big ole mess.

Yep, its in her interview...she DOES admit it. But, I wonder if that's just a lie, to cover up the reason that it was balled up on the bathroom counter. Why wasn't it on the floor with the REST of her clothes.....JB was never taught to pick after herself. She orginally said that JB was put to bed, wearing the red turtleneck (which...I believe is the same shirt that she is wearing on the main WBS page...the one where you click on her picture to get onto her board).....I believe that JB wore it to bed, she wet the bed, the shirt got wet, and it was balled up on the br counter. That may have been when the shoving took place, while Patsy was trying to get the wet shirt off of her...she was rage filled, and she flung JB into the side of the tub. Steve Thomas believes this too....and I think that he has a reason to. IMO..he knows more about the evidence than we do.

I just cannot believe that she didn't make JB take a bath, before heading to the Whites...after soiling her panties...(the ones in her pants, that were turned inside out, on her bedroom floor). That's just NASTY...

 

[DeeDee249]

We all have different levels of tolerence for personal cleanliness, but what grown woman dresses without showering after a full day like Chrismas Day, after attending a party, being exposed to smoke, etc. ?

 

[Ames]

We all have different levels of tolerence for personal cleanliness, but what grown woman dresses without showering after a full day like Chrismas Day, after attending a party, being exposed to smoke, etc. ?

She didn't have time to shower...she was too busy trying to stage a cover-up, a shower was on the bottom of her to-do list.

 

[DeeDee249]

True- that and she never got undressed that night anyway.

 

[Ames]

True- that and she never got undressed that night anyway.

Exactly!! Why shower, when you are still in the same clothes?

 

[JMO8778]

I just cannot believe that she didn't make JB take a bath, before heading to the Whites...after soiling her panties...(the ones in her pants, that were turned inside out, on her bedroom floor). That's just NASTY...

me either,even if she wiped her off w baby wipes,I still think,(unless Patsy's a truly unhygienic person),that JB got a bath that day.I think they were trying to account for any of their own fingerprints or dna on her by saying she hadn't had a bath that day.

 

[JMO8778]

armywife210,

Every theory seems to fit in somewhere, even the intruder theory seemed sound when elaborated upon by Lou Smit. Even if JonBenet was being douched it may only explain some of JonBenet's behaviour, but not it all? Steve Thomas offered no evidence for his corporal punishment theory, he actually admits there is nothing conclusive, its simply law enforcement speculation, safe theories to pad out his book.

Patsy was never too concerned about JonBenet's general lack of hygiene, would not any mother be mortified if a male family friend returned her daughter along with wet/soiled underwear in a bag? It was never a big deal for Patsy probably just another stage for JonBenet to pass through as did Burke. JonBenet's stained underwear in her underwear drawer are testament to Patsy's indifference, any daughter of mine would have new/clean underwear to replace any stained pairs, but not Patsy, she never bothered, yet she was married to a millionaire and could afford to dress JonBenet in a brand new pair of underwear daily.

So why should she become so serious about hygiene that JonBenet at 6-years old must be douched, when she does not care in other circumstances?

Also JonBenet asking non-family members to wipe her down is a big red-flag for me, this is JonBenet displaying a lack of any personal boundary.

.

I don't know UK,Patsy may have been slack in her thinking about laundry,and just thought as long as they'd been washed,(and by LHP at that..I'm assuming she must have been a good maid),that she may have thought that as long as they'd been washed,they were clean,despite the stains.

 

[Ames]

me either,even if she wiped her off w baby wipes,I still think,(unless Patsy's a truly unhygienic person),that JB got a bath that day.I think they were trying to account for any of their own fingerprints or dna on her by saying she hadn't had a bath that day.

Oh my goodness....now THAT's a good thought....the same reason that Patsy didn't shower or change clothes...and the same reason that John touched the body, took off the tape, and loosened one of the wrist ligature....is the same reason that Patsy said that JB didn't have a bath that day. Good thinking JMO!!!

 

[BBB167893]

Very possible.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't know UK,Patsy may have been slack in her thinking about laundry,and just thought as long as they'd been washed,(and by LHP at that..I'm assuming she must have been a good maid),that she may have thought that as long as they'd been washed,they were clean,despite the stains.

Obviously theirs was a Clorox-free zone.

 

[JMO8778]

Obviously theirs was a Clorox-free zone.

lol,good point.She was just slack all around about laundry it seems..what could be so hard about putting a laundry basket in each room for the dirty clothes?Or could she not find any that matched the decor???

 

[DeeDee249]

Linda Hoffman-Pugh said in her interview that she had suggested to PR several times that they should get a hamper. PR never got around to it. I know there was a laundry chute in the house. But as far as what happened to clothes they took off- they just stayed where they were dropped, and the housekeeper sorted them when she got there. I also read where even Nedra criticized PR for her messiness, saying that Linda was there to clean, and how could she clean if she spent all her time picking up the house.

 

[Shanny]

Yep, I think it is, CK wouldn't lie about it.

It seems that she was douched as punishment for wetting and soiling herself. The housekeeper said that she used to hear JB screaming in the bathroom...(and Patsy would be in there with her).

If I heard a child screaming in a bathroom I would go to investigate, how can the housekeeper sit there and listen to a child scream and not do nothing about it? If JonBenet was being abused then Linda the housekeeper is just as guilty as Patsy because she heard what was going on in that house and didn't report it.

 

[DeeDee249]

To be fair to the housekeeper, Linda Hoffman-Pugh may not have actually though JBR was being abused, but rather "punished". While there are many people who would never physically punish a child, there are many who do. The housekeeper may have just not wanted to interfere with her employer's method of disciplining their children. Also, some kids do overreract (I am not suggesting that this was the case here) and scream and carry on when it is not warrented. Now, if "corporal cleansing" (by douching) had resulted in obvious injury, such as bloodied underwear, I believe Linda Hoffman-Pugh would have said it, especially after she realized that PR was trying to implicate her and her husband as possible suspects. Linda never mentioned anything like this, and JBR's panties were taken into evidence (although as was the case with the silver serving spoon in the pineapple, I don't know for certain if the panties were ever tested for blood, semen, or DNA. )