GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[Seattle1]

Luckily, all five sentences are consecutive. Given the nature of his crimes and the shortened life span of prisoners, I wager he’ll die in prison.

IMO

I believe the agreement was 10 years for burglary plus 4 life sentences, served consecutively.

Much of Wednesday's hearing was devoted to the Court confirming that BK was competent, understood the rights he was giving up by changing his plea and not going to trial, and understood the agreement and the terms. At times it may have sounded like the Judge was trying to talk him out of the agreement!

I once witnessed the Court spell out to a defendant a multi-life sentence to be served consecutively where there left no doubt of the meaning in anyone's mind! It went something like this:

Govt: Defendant, you are 30 years old, correct?

Defendant: Yes.

Govt: From statistical information, the average natural life in the Department of Corrections is age 70, and 70 -30 = 40. Do you follow?

Defendant: Yes.

Govt: Serving four consecutive life sentences means one after the other.

For demonstrative purposes, this agreement means you will spend not less than 4 x 40 or 160 years in prison or until your natural death...

Do you understand you will never leave prison alive?

This is the agreement you are entering....

Do you still want to continue with this agreement..?

Defendant: Yes.

Govt: Please state your full name and affirm you are entering this agreement freely.

 

[SteveP]

Evidence showed that BK parked above and behind the house, entered through the 2nd floor slider, went straight upstairs, killed Maddie first, then Kaylee, then went downstairs and encountered Xana, who he killed next, and finally killed a sleeping Ethan, in Xana's bed, before going back out the slider and escaping. Pretty much exactly how many here thought, except some, including me, thought that perhaps he wounded Xana, then killed Ethan before returning to finish killing Xana. That is not what the evidence showed, apparently. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

I haven't been here for ages but I just had to come back to say how shocked I am.
I really didn't expect this.

Anyway, going to catch up with the reply thread to try & process it. Am almost speechless.

 

[NavySubMom]

The problem I have with the judge and prosecution accepting this deal as is is they were holding all the cards. They had about as close to a sure thing as you can get in a criminal trial and they chose expedience over holding BK's feet to the fire.

They could have forced BK to do a full allocution, as some family members wanted, and they had all the leverage to make it happen. They chose to end it as quickly and painlessly as possible for themselves. That's arrogance and an utter lack of compassion for the victim's families.

Juxtapose that against the Wichita Kansas Da's handling of Dennis Rader. They weren't going to let him get away unscathed. They made sure he had to expose himself, and all his demented fantasies, for all the world to see. BK should've been put in the same position and made to squirm. They let him off very easy.

Yes ! I clearly remember, watching
Denis Rader on TV, standing in Court, and reciting in detail, each and every name of every person he killed, and exactly how he killed that person, and then what he did with them afterwards. Then on to the next person. It was quite chilling to hear that.
I think that is the only time I have witnessed someone having to do that as a part of their sentence.

IMO

 

[10ofRods]

One would assume the murder scene would be extremely ugly and graphic, and locked in my mind is one picture of the exterior of the house with blood dripping down the siding.

What are some speculation on how BK left the crime scene leaving a minimal blood trail, seeming the kinfe thrusting would have blood spatter going every direction

I have always believed he used the "up and under" technique taught in the Marines for the Ka-Bar knife. Not the "up and over" we see in Psycho (the movie).

This minimizes blood spatter, is highly lethal, uses less strength (so women can do it too), runs into fewer bones and most of the bleeding is inside the body, at least initially.

Surely his dominant/stabbing hand would have been bloody (although he was likely wearing gloves and a utility suit with elasticized, cuffed sleeves - so the blood would be disposed of along with those items, at one of the bodies of water he admits to have visited that early morning and possibly, later in the day).

This would be consistent with the blood then pooling around and under victim E. and, if those pictures are accurate, dripping through the wall and onto the foundation - there would have been a lot of blood, but not arterial blood such as one would see with throat wounds or other sorts of wounds.

IMO.

 

[DizzyB]

I know Idaho has somewhat different definitions for sentencing/ terms of incarceration compared to most other states, but I'm frankly a little confused....Lots of posts above indicating 4 consecutive life terms for the murders, no possibility of parole: BUT

at 4:40 of this video: Judge Hipler references a minimum 10 years for each of counts 2, 3, 4 and 5:

I did not understand whether the potential for a 10 year prison term was at the Judge's discretion of not so I looked further and found:

Suspect pleads guilty in murders of University of Idaho students

The plea deal angered some of the victims' family members who thought Bryan Kohberger should be forced to reveal details of the murders — including his motive.

www.courthousenews.com

which also indicates a mandatory minimum of 10 years for each murder charge. (Para 3)

So: If the mandatory minimum stands on consecutive sentences and BK is a very good boy; and considering he has been incarcerated since Dec 30 2022: He could be liable for parole consideration in 2069 at the age of 74??

Do I have that right? Does the Mandatory Minimum only apply if Judge Hipler decides to effect it and the plea agreement already reads "Life without parole" times 4?

That’s what I was questioning-mandatory minimum of 10 made me wonder.

 

[maskedwoman]

I also watched the hearing, but am only now getting back to read your comments. Such a small thing, but it drove me nuts that he only BK answered the Judge with "yes" and not "yes sir". I wanted to tase him. It was indeed chilling, watching him during this hearing, The thumbs up and his face in that picture shows how much he enjoyed it. I think he enjoyed all of it, all the way through. I'm very glad there won't be a trial. He would enjoy it too much, getting to listen to all the witnesses recount what he did when, and he doesn't deserve that satisfaction.

 

[NavySubMom]

This is an old article about the DD driver from DM
dated 18 June

(I'm not sure if it was sent here)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1935115935385305393

Oh man, that selfie of Kohberger is so bizarre and creepy. I know his hair is wet, and that is why it looks darker,
This is after his post-murder shower
He looks so demented, a little different to me, like he is surely possessed by something that is pure evil. Inhuman. So proud of himself.
The thumbs up, and that grin. Haunting.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Bringing over a post I made on the previous thread from yesterday :

Someone mentioned that nowhere in that hearing today was the word "parole" mentioned as in with or without the possibility of. I even copied the YT generated transcript and read it over and over and did a ctrl-F search for the word parole.

In the plea agreement it also does not state the word parole. But it does say this:

3. The Defendant will receive fixed consecutive life sentences for Counts II-V.

So, trying to find out what "fixed" means in terms of that whole phrase, and particularly in terms of Idaho's laws I found this:

https://www.urban.org/sites/default...ssing_the_impact_of_idahos_parole_reforms.pdf

Fixed term: The minimum prison sentence set by the court. Idaho law requires sentences with both a determinate (fixed) and indeterminate length. People become eligible for parole upon fulfilling the fixed portion of a sentence; the indeterminate portion can be served in prison or on parole supervision. For example, someone who receives a three-year fixed sentence and seven-year indeterminate sentence becomes eligible for parole after serving three years but could remain in prison up to 10 years if not granted parole.

Since it is literally impossible to fulfill/finish 4 consecutive life sentences, he can not gain parole. Period. That is why, IMHO, in Idaho legal language, "fixed" in terms of this plea agreement is the equivalent of saying "life without parole."

So all the news sources that reported it as LWOP were correct, they were just translating

I think some people misunderstood consecutive with concurrent. Obv concurrent would be ludicrous but that would inflame someone if they made that mistake.

Also no rights to Appeal, that's a big thing as it saves so much money, hundreds of thousands of dollars probably and so much time of experts etc.

To my mind, this was the right call. To fail to accept plea deals like this also could have a ripple effect and send out the word that it's not possible, JMO that would be an unhelpful scenario, defendants and their lawyers need to know that plea deal is on the table for complex cases.

JMO MOO

 

[crhedBngr]

Better to bake a delicious chocolate cake in the shape of a HAT

Mmmm.....So yummy
You can add strawberries too (for the red)

RBBM

Here you go!


JMVHO.

 

[10ofRods]

I know Idaho has somewhat different definitions for sentencing/ terms of incarceration compared to most other states, but I'm frankly a little confused....Lots of posts above indicating 4 consecutive life terms for the murders, no possibility of parole: BUT

at 4:40 of this video: Judge Hipler references a minimum 10 years for each of counts 2, 3, 4 and 5:

I did not understand whether the potential for a 10 year prison term was at the Judge's discretion of not so I looked further and found:

Suspect pleads guilty in murders of University of Idaho students

The plea deal angered some of the victims' family members who thought Bryan Kohberger should be forced to reveal details of the murders — including his motive.

www.courthousenews.com

which also indicates a mandatory minimum of 10 years for each murder charge. (Para 3)

So: If the mandatory minimum stands on consecutive sentences and BK is a very good boy; and considering he has been incarcerated since Dec 30 2022: He could be liable for parole consideration in 2069 at the age of 74??

Do I have that right? Does the Mandatory Minimum only apply if Judge Hipler decides to effect it and the plea agreement already reads "Life without parole" times 4?

The Judge, according to the agreement signed by Kohberger and prepared jointly by Defense and Prosecution says that it will be four consecutive life sentences without parole, but that if the Judge so chooses, the Judge may reduce any or all of those sentences to years of time certain. IOW, no longer "life without parole" but some lesser sentence. It does not recommend that the Judge make the sentences concurrent, but I assume he could - because unless he signs the agreement, it's null.

I seriously doubt Judge H will reduce the sentence. But he could. The plea agreement says that Judge H may not choose a higher sentence (death) but could make LWP into a fixed term for each crime. Silent on whether he can change it to concurrent, but if he decided to, it is possible that the Prosecution could protest.

What is clear though, is that without an actual judge-approved plea deal, Kohberger has (without qualification and agreeing not to appeal) admitted guilty. He'll get a formal sentence (likely what is in the agreement, otherwise it's legally awkward) on July 23.

IMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I think people are confused by the term “fixed life sentence” used in the Plea Agreement. Here’s a screenshot of the agreement, with the relevant statement highlighted:
It is clear from this document that “fixed” means without parole. Here’s a screenshot (like me, the state of Idaho seems to be a fan of Dostoyevsky):



During the plea hearing, Judge Hippler read the penalties listed in the plea agreement, but he also stated that these are maximum penalties.

The Court (that is, Hippler himself) can instead impose lesser penalties, but not because the Defendant asks him to do so.

You can read Hippler’s description of these lesser penalties in this screenshot of the hearing’s transcript:




I doubt Hippler will lesson the sentences for each murder since Idaho law requires a fixed life sentence for a first degree murder with a statutory aggravating circumstance beyond a reasonable doubt. I assume a confession of the crime erases any doubt.

I suppose Hippler could forego sentencing the murderer for burglary, and he could even allow all four fixed life sentences to be served concurrently. But one fixed life sentence is equivalent to life without parole. So the murderer will spend the rest of his life in prison.

IMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Oh man, that selfie of Kohberger is so bizarre and creepy. I know his hair is wet, and that is why it looks darker,
This is after his post-murder shower
He looks so demented, a little different to me, like he is surely possessed by something that is pure evil. Inhuman. So proud of himself.
The thumbs up, and that grin. Haunting.

Didn't we establish here on this forum that the purpose of that photo was to let his mother know he'd received the shirt she sent and that it fitted, that he had been in a phone call with his family as a matter of routine or because it was his birthday or something suchlike? IIRC

I do recall there was wide debate and discussion as to what it could possibly 'mean', why he was wearing his ear buds in the bathroom and a 'church' shirt on a Sunday when he'd just slaughtered some innocent young people etc. That there was some bruising coming up on his hand etc.

JMO MOO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I felt the Judges comments were uncalled for! It was victim shaming!

It really wasnt victim shaming. The judge has a responsibility to make sure that everything is done right during trial, and inciting discord and attempting to sway a judge is no different to jury tampering.
It may have felt harsh as it was obviously directed at a grieving father, but it needed to be said.
This isn't the first time SG has thrown a spanner in the works, I personally believe he was a very big factor in the application of the gag order because he was angry and very vocal about certain aspects of the case very early on.
Unfortunately, at the moment, SG is his own worst enemy

 

[Peppery]

I have trial lawyer friends in who work in Chicago. Cook County judges are not known to be soft, for sure. They said it in this kind of situation, a hearing for establishing a change in plea to guilty, when a judge is asking the series of questions that Hippler did (to establish certainty that the defendant meets all the requirements for his plea change to be accepted and then to establish that he is actually guilty of what he is pleading to), the only thing the defendant can and should answer is yes or no--and that in a rapid fire series of questions like in this situation, judges do not want the defendant to tack on "Your honor" to every single answer.

Yes, and AT would also know this and have prepared BK to do exactly that. Imo

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Didn't we establish here on this forum that the purpose of that photo was to let his mother know he'd received the shirt she sent and that it fitted, that he had been in a phone call with his family as a matter of routine or because it was his birthday or something suchlike? IIRC

I do recall there was wide debate and discussion as to what it could possibly 'mean', why he was wearing his ear buds in the bathroom and a 'church' shirt on a Sunday when he'd just slaughtered some innocent young people etc. That there was some bruising coming up on his hand etc.

JMO MOO

Not sure why he called his parents or why he took the thumbs up photo, but his birthday was over a week later.

The shirt in the thumb’s up photo fit pretty similarly to the shirt he wore at the hearing, by the way.

IMO

 

[Boodles]

One would assume the murder scene would be extremely ugly and graphic, and locked in my mind is one picture of the exterior of the house with blood dripping down the siding.

What are some speculation on how BK left the crime scene leaving a minimal blood trail, seeming the kinfe thrusting would have blood spatter going every direction

When DM told LE that BK was carrying a “container,” I think (total speculation) it was a bundled up and used murder kit, including a hazmat type suit he had been wearing, along with the knife, etc. I think he wore protective clothing, knowing what he was planning to do with the knife, and stripped off the bloody suit/clothing in the hallway after killing EC. JMO and total speculation. I have no facts to support this but when she said he was carrying a container, this is what occurred to me.

 

[SteveP]

Didn't we establish here on this forum that the purpose of that photo was to let his mother know he'd received the shirt she sent and that it fitted, that he had been in a phone call with his family as a matter of routine or because it was his birthday or something suchlike? IIRC

I do recall there was wide debate and discussion as to what it could possibly 'mean', why he was wearing his ear buds in the bathroom and a 'church' shirt on a Sunday when he'd just slaughtered some innocent young people etc. That there was some bruising coming up on his hand etc.

JMO MOO

We didn't establish anything pertaining to that selfie, as no one other than BK knows why he took it. There was some discussion that it may have been to send a pic to his mom of a birthday gift, but we cannot know that. I remain convinced it was a reminder for him to be able to look back at whenever he wished to relive that morning. We also do not know if the Sunday morning phone calls were normal routine or something more. JMO

 

[Miss Poovy]

I'm not a dressmaker or fashion expert but believe that he's wearing either a bullet proof / stab proof body armour under the shirt. Also that his tie would be a clip around and this is why it looks like it's pulled way too tight. In reality it's probably fixed with a plastic gripper on either side and this means if someone grabbed his tie and pulled it, it would pull off his neck and not drag him forwards. I think it's all been designed to look like he's *not* wearing a body suit and clip on but failed.

I was quite surprised at the swirly paisley pattern of the tie, it's kind of trippy like something from the 60s.

JMO MOO

I agree it was a clip on tie. He also did not have a belt on. I believe he is not allowed to wear anything that could be used in a chokehold.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

We didn't establish anything pertaining to that selfie, as no one other than BK knows why he took it. There was some discussion that it may have been to send a pic to his mom of a birthday gift, but we cannot know that. I remain convinced it was a reminder for him to be able to look back at whenever he wished to relive that morning. JMO

Ah OK, I seem to think it was more resolved than that but obv cannot prove this or recall!

As much as I think it could have been a trophy / reminder pic IMO also think it was to 'look normal' - ie oh yes I recall that Sunday, I was chatting to the fam and sent my mother a pic of the shirt she'd posted out to me. Nothing to see here...