GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[INfisherman]

Not "accused" Just plain murderer.

No longer has the presumption of innocence. An admittedly guilty murderer.

It's about timing IMO.

Judge SH is the sitting judge on this case. Addressing him in any manner outside the courtroom has the capacity to throw a trial. Even an appearance of impropriety derails trust in the system. Threats, pressure, force, harassment, coercion, blackmailing, begging, buying -- all bad.

IMO the judge was compelled to raise it on the record, no different than if a defendant mailed him money to side with him. Judge SH was clear, he was not influenced by that misguided campaign, that he turned it over without listening to it, and that he does as his job requires, applies the laws as he understands them. It's his responsibility to run his courtroom in such a way the law is upheld, protecting BK's rights (because he was the accused) and as such the rights of every man or woman accused.

Public sentiment in that regard, rather than trying to persuade/bribe/threaten a sitting judge, has actual recourse -- the long, hard way, changing the laws, should they need changing.

Once BK is sentenced to four fixed life sentences +10 years, concurrently or consecutively or repackaged as LWOP +300 years, I hope everyone impacted by the loss of these four young people who were embarking on their futures will find a way to decompress. To find enough joy to temper the sorrow, hope to overcome despair and laughter to balance the tears.

That is how we win.

JMO

I see both sides of the coin. I could very easily see myself in SG’s shoes, seeking an eye for an eye as well as inflicting as much anguish as I’d experienced. However, after taking some time to think & reflect, yes, I feel this was likely the closest to a guarantee the prosecution could come. I feel guilt was highly probable but DP or possibly of freedom at some point down the road from a jury sentencing was the wildcard which worried the state.

JH was marvelous throughout & a fantastic author of court orders. I will miss his stinging responses & am admittedly disappointed I won’t see him at work during a trial. The trade off is worth it in the long run IMO. I feel he needed to address the noise being made outside of the courtroom. I understand SG’s sentiments, as already stated, but I can’t support riling up others or allowing outside influence into a legal proceeding. I find it difficult to say these words because I couldn’t imagine what he’s felt & been through. As a dad, he’s right to feel as such - as a civilized, law abiding American, I’m not so sure. Not really my place to judge him, really. Complicated.

BBM portion, my sentiments & only sensible thoughts going forward. Don’t let him win by not moving forward or feeling good things. BK’s evil wins if darkness ends up being all consuming.

I would be very, very surprised if the order of events as stated in the fact portion of yesterday's hearing are not supported by forensic evidence, probably copious amounts of it. They would know who was bleeding out first upstairs, and who came second. IMO.

Then, there were probably blood footprints going down but not up the stairs. They fade out to the latent prints, which were then studied using reagents to make them visible again - that's how we know that he did walk by DM's door, as she stated. By the time he got to the slider, I am guessing no more latent prints.

They would also know whether E and X's blood was part of the composition of any of the latent prints and whether he went upstairs again after killing them (he didn't, according to the fact statement). It's actually not complete clear that both women on the third floor were actually dead at that time. The fact statement says he put the sheath "next to" MM's body. He agreed that's what he did when he agreed to the facts. Yet, we had heard that the sheath was "partially" underneath her body, so perhaps MM was still moving slightly. That would not be surprising in a stabbing.

This is making me think about whether he did toss the sheath on the bed as a kind of calling card. I realize that's sort of an "out there" theory, but the wording of the facts made me ponder this. This would be in keeping with him having somehow fixated on MM. He might have thought KG had moved out entirely. He may have watched her pack her car and therefore been enraged and surprised at finding KG in MM's room.

I am guessing there will be many more facts once this case is closed and the various documents are no longer suppressed.

IMO.

I agree, there likely would’ve been truckloads of forensic evidence - several 18 wheeler loads full.

MOO, all of the above.

 

[LinasK]

This guy, SG, and his wife, worked their a--es off for a very long time so they could have upward mobility and raise their children. They loved their children. They still love their children. They paid a hefty penny to send one of those children through college at University of Idaho, and she loved it.

But one of their children isn't with them any longer. Because BK decided at some point, you know, her time was up. For whatever reason, BK felt the need to "get rid of" Kaylee. and her friends.

What this man SG, her father, and his wife are going through... is unimaginable. It is a living nightmare. And one I hope nobody else has to deal with, but let me tell you, looking at Websleuths daily, with the number of missing people swallowed into a hole-- aside from the murdered-- I know better.

Have you read Watership Down by Richard Adams? It is about a civilization of rabbits, and at one point, the rabbits are dealing with a warren that has snares set. Nobody knows who set them, and nobody cares. They're being fed well. They just know certain victims (unidentified, luck of the draw), won't be with them any longer because-- there are these snares. And they accept that. It's just part of the daily routine. This "warren of the snares" is recognized to be western culture.

That's not "freedom." That makes us all slaves to a bunch of perverts, freaks, and murderers.

I'm sorry, I can see where SG is coming from on this. Because there is not perfect justice in this system of supposed justice, and perhaps in any nation's sytem. But the system should strive towards actual justice.

I read it many years ago. Didn't remember the part about the snares, but I couldn't get into it from the perspective of the eyes of a bunny. I remember that.

 

[Odeto BJ]

I hope this is a decision he would have made if it went to trial also. If he's not wanting to make a statement because he doesn't agree with the plea deal, then he just might regret it. I've seen where people write a statement and someone else reads it for them.

At least now he can just be mad at the lawyers and the judge. Imagine if a jury found him guilty and then sentenced him to LWOP. Would he be this angry then too?

All good points.

Mr Thompson has condemned the death penalty during his past campaigns; and has also plea bargained a multi-murderer from M1 with specialties to M2 fixed sentence, way back in 1996. Notably the defendant was a U of I student in that case.
Point is: SG believes WT was less than enthusiastic about pursuing the DP, even for such a heinous crime as this. SG has expressed his trepidation on that topic in the near past.
To that extent, if a jury returned a sentence of LWOP, WT would have done his job in securing the conviction and SG would not have a singular person to point his ire toward....
Would that have made him any less angry? Maybe not, but at least his anger would be diluted in the sense that it would be aimed at 12 jurors, the Defense and possibly the other players in the trial...but not at WT alone.
I believe SG being angry with Judge Hipler is totally inappropriate, but as I posted about above, Hipler ended up the objective of SG's campaign of the last few days, because only the judge could refute the plea deal at that stage. SG certainly was aware that Hipler was much more adept at moving the process of prosecution forward than was Judge Judge.

 

[LinasK]

Most states have an evaluation that determines your classification for prison assignment. Sometimes when a prisoner enters the prison system, the prisoners may detained in a specific prison until their evaluation is completed. Maybe BK’s evaluation will be completed before his sentencing hearing. Here’s some info from ABA.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/criminal_justice/resources/standards/treatment-of-prisoners/

Just to clarify, yes there are evaluation facilities, but Snake River isn't one of them. It's a permanent destination.

 

[Miss Poovy]

Just to clarify, yes there are evaluation facilities, but Snake River isn't one of them. It's a permanent destination.

Yes, I think I accidentally picked up that reference from another post. My reply skills could use a little work as I often get distracted. Thanks for pointing out, I realize now that is confusing.

 

[gremlin444]

I have always believed he used the "up and under" technique taught in the Marines for the Ka-Bar knife. Not the "up and over" we see in Psycho (the movie).

This minimizes blood spatter, is highly lethal, uses less strength (so women can do it too), runs into fewer bones and most of the bleeding is inside the body, at least initially.

Surely his dominant/stabbing hand would have been bloody (although he was likely wearing gloves and a utility suit with elasticized, cuffed sleeves - so the blood would be disposed of along with those items, at one of the bodies of water he admits to have visited that early morning and possibly, later in the day).

This would be consistent with the blood then pooling around and under victim E. and, if those pictures are accurate, dripping through the wall and onto the foundation - there would have been a lot of blood, but not arterial blood such as one would see with throat wounds or other sorts of wounds.

IMO.

The recent Dateline episode on the murders said that according to their sources, Ethan was killed by a knife wound to an artery. Since they then went on to say the killer then carved Ethan's lower legs, it has been assumed that Ethan was face down....making the most likely artery that was cut be the carotid.

 

[rogue ant]

Post in thread 'PLEA DEAL REACHED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #110' PLEA DEAL REACHED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #110

I would like to know the source as well.

 

[AngTxGal]

I've watch the forensic psychologist on Hidden True Crime (approved source), he says if it was intentional that it was entirely unconscious. More likely it was just a rookie mistake. He should have attached it to his belt.

He opines that Kohberger had studied forensics, and wanted to commit the perfect crime. Even before BK was arrested the forensic psychologist believed it was a crime of revenge - against women who had rejected him and then, once his background was revealed, also against the criminolgy dept/hopes for an LE career that he was failing.

Makes sense to me.

I’m thinking he put on coveralls over his clothes- and intended to quickly take them off after the killings. That is why he did not have a belt for the sheath.
So- the knife in sheath was in his hand as he was moving around or the sheath was in a long pocket on the leg of coveralls and knife was up in his hand?
Walking around with such a knife without a sheath in the dark in an unfamiliar house seems like a bad plan- but he would have wanted to react quickly.

Interesting questions-

IMO

 

[LinasK]

I know basically nothing about this case and I have no idea where to start. Wikipedia is not providing me with potential motives and news articles also say BK had no obvious motive.

His motive was that he had targeted either Kaylee or Maddie and was stalking them. He didn't select their house at random. He picked U of Idaho as his hunting grounds for young pretty blonde girls.

 

[LinasK]

Well, BK has provided no motive. As turaj said, the most likely target was Maddie, but why and when we'll probably never know. He didn't presonally know her. Maybe the police have more information but I doubt they'll release it.

Stalkers don't need to know their victims to target them.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I think some compassion can be also be generated for people whose beautiful daughters and sons are missing and murdered - but they don't know for sure and the murderer has gotten away with it

There is an ocean of grief in the world, and I think remembering that can allow people to accept their lack of control over other's people's violent actions.

I had a friend whose daughter was abducted and murdered. There was never any resolution. It was heartbreaking. My partner at the time was a writer and reporter and he did a story about the case, focusing on the how tough these cases are on the family. I think it's possible to feel both compassion for the trauma the families experience and compassion for the people in the justice system who try (and sometimes fail) to find the killer and hold him accountable.

 

[Cedars]

[

Stalkers don't need to know their victims to target them.

Yes, and in a horrible way, I think it was just their very bad luck to live in a house that was stalkable...that hidden parking area that looked into the back of the house.

 

[LinasK]

Yes, I think I accidentally picked up that reference from another post. My reply skills could use a little work as I often get distracted. Thanks for pointing out, I realize now that is confusing.

I bring it up because it's on the border of Oregon and Idaho and from photos it looks extremely desolate, no place to go if you escaped from it. My cousin's murderer ended up there.

 

[INfisherman]

Just to clarify, yes there are evaluation facilities, but Snake River isn't one of them. It's a permanent destination.

Yes, they will send him to be evaluated for a few weeks or months prior to sending him to a full-fledged prison. This happened with Richard Allen in the Delphi case. He was sent to a facility in Plainfield for evaluation then sent back up near Gary to Westfield State Penitentiary then after a few months transferred to Pendleton State Penitentiary.

Where BK ends up could be influenced by the results of his evaluations, depending upon which facility might be deemed best for any noted "conditions" he may have, for lack of better words.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I have always believed he used the "up and under" technique taught in the Marines for the Ka-Bar knife. Not the "up and over" we see in Psycho (the movie).

This minimizes blood spatter, is highly lethal, uses less strength (so women can do it too), runs into fewer bones and most of the bleeding is inside the body, at least initially.

Surely his dominant/stabbing hand would have been bloody (although he was likely wearing gloves and a utility suit with elasticized, cuffed sleeves - so the blood would be disposed of along with those items, at one of the bodies of water he admits to have visited that early morning and possibly, later in the day).

This would be consistent with the blood then pooling around and under victim E. and, if those pictures are accurate, dripping through the wall and onto the foundation - there would have been a lot of blood, but not arterial blood such as one would see with throat wounds or other sorts of wounds.

IMO.

Yes, it makes sense that he would have moved the knife up, underhanded rather than overhanded.
The aorta is less than 10 cm into the body under the sternum- if he went up and into the chest cavity centrally he would have hit it. The timing to bleed out if the aorta was hit would have be exceptionally fast

Disgusting, what a terrible thing to imagine

IMO

 

[Arkay]

He will get 4 consecutive sentences of LWOP, no chance for appeal PLUS 10 years for burglary on top of that. Consecutive sentences means "one after the other." LWOP=life without parole. Without parole. And no appeals.

Had a lot of doctor stuff to do today so I’m first going to catch up now, but THIS is exactly what I wanted to say.

I did see some posts this morning concerned about parole, and I am sure that the judge said no parole, no appeals, four life sentences consecutively (so until Bryan dies and then lives three more lifetimes). PLUS 10 years for burglary.

The one thing I’m unsure about is the financial payments the judge was discussing with Bryan, I guess for restitution?

I don’t know what income BK could make in the future, as any book or interview profits I believe go over to the victims’ families.

Maybe Hippler was just tying a bow on his sentence.

IMO

 

[Miss Poovy]

I bring it up because it's on the border of Oregon and Idaho and from photos it looks extremely desolate, no place to go if you escaped from it. My cousin's murderer ended up there.

Yeah, some of the max security prisons look pretty desolate.

The state prisons in the state I live in are horrible, so there’s no saying a state prisoner is living in the lap of luxury.

 

[INfisherman]

I’m thinking he put on coveralls over his clothes- and intended to quickly take them off after the killings. That is why he did not have a belt for the sheath.
So- the knife in sheath was in his hand as he was moving around or the sheath was in a long pocket on the leg of coveralls and knife was up in his hand?
Walking around with such a knife without a sheath in the dark in an unfamiliar house seems like a bad plan- but he would have wanted to react quickly.

Interesting questions-

IMO

I feel he was smart in how to avoid leaving behind forensic evidence, but the more physical aspects (carrying a weapon, physical altercations, keeping wits about oneself during an adrenaline charged activity) were lacking. It’s hard to guess what a "rookie" might do when presented certain "obstacles". The actions or reactions are usually nonsensical or not very well thought out - he wasn’t an experienced combatant but one who relied on sneaking & ambushing targets who were either weaker than himself or unaware of his presence.

Coward through & through.

JMO

 

[Derph]

The average time it takes for a state to execute someone on death row in the United States has been steadily increasing and is currently around 19.4yrs This represents the average time between the imposition of the death sentence and execution, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.

That's 2045!!! Taking into consideration all the appeals and other stuff the state, the lawyers, the courts have to do just to get this guy to the execution chamber, do the families really want to be hauled into all that year after year after year? I think when the emotions calm down a little bit, hopefully the families opposed to this plea arrangement may see this in a more favorable way.

 

[Cedars]

I had a friend whose daughter was abducted and murdered. There was never any resolution. It was heartbreaking. My partner at the time was a writer and reporter and he did a story about the case, focusing on the how tough these cases are on the family. I think it's possible to feel both compassion for the trauma the families experience and compassion for the people in the justice system who try (and sometimes fail) to find the killer and hold him accountable.

I feel LE did a fabulous job in this case - considering who they were up against.

I was interested to hear yesterday about a previous traffic stop by an Idaho officer that recorded his vehicle, lack of front license plate and personal details. I hadn't heard that before. So he was already in their system. And something had generated that Sheriff officer's concern - perhaps just the out-of-state plates are associated with drug dealers or something.

I'd always wondered how they got Washington State University involved, but this info means they found the Elantra in their own system.