GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[loveplace]

Jumping off this post. Where is the line between Opinion and Harassment?

Are people not allowed to call and voice an opinion on something regarding the court? If the answer is no, then calling would not be a viable option. If the answer was yes, then when did it become harassment? Were the callers rude, or threatening? If not, this should not be an issue at all. If they were, then that is on each individual. So then how does one let the courts know that there are people (and maybe a lot of them) who are not happy with the way they are being run?

The government, and that include the judges and prosecutors work for the people, not the other way around. There needs to be some way to tell them if what they are doing needs to be improved upon. If calling wasn't it, then what was/is? This country didn't start out with courts that worked this way. (not saying an old way was better, but maybe a new way would be better, too)

There is little worse that feeling like you have no control over your own life, or the justice for your loved ones. Like what is actually written down as a punishment never comes to pass (Cough*California*cough). At least if one felt like they had some kind of recourse to complain/try to change the system instead of being swept up in it, one might feel like there was something they can do. But instead people get told "You aren't allowed to question Authority!" with no "Here's what you can do instead." JMO

I don't know that SG's hostility is "misdirected". Maybe over the top at the moment. JMO.

JMO and experience but I believe it is always considered inappropriate and highly frowned upon to attempt influence a judge in any way or communicate with them regarding a case outside of established courtroom procedures.

 

[10ofRods]

IMO:

It's probably for the best all around for the DP to be off the table for mostly everyone who has been irrevocably damaged and devasted by BK killing the 4 of them, for all the reasons cited recently here, and elsewhere in MSM, and more.

Though if Kaylee's family (or other victims' family members) truly want/wanted BK to be put to death ("an eye for an eye" is an ancient trope for a reason as well, IMO) because they have their own sentiments about it and their loss of their child so horrifically and unexpectedly is insurmountable for them without the DP, that is understandable to me, anyway.

It's too terrible, heartbreaking, no-right-words awful, 4 families losing their children in the prime of their innocent lives at the hands of a cold blooded killer who has shown no remorse. And all of them knifed to death in their beds or home, their safe space.

I truly have no idea if I would be ok with the brutal killer of my child avoiding the DP with a last minute guilty plea (IMO) no matter how or why or who else was involved.

MOO.

What a thoughtful post (as usual). I don't think any of us know how we would feel, unless we've lost a child to violent criminality.

To be quite frank, while I am generally anti-DP, I do not blame parents or juries or judges for imposing it for heinous crimes. I cannot guarantee I wouldn't want to be the one to push the button if anyone murdered my children or grandchildren.

At the same time, if the system doesn't provide the DP, I think the prison conditions BK is facing in Idaho are heinous and would (myself) prefer death. And it's not just Idaho. I doubt he knows how bad it can be, because jail is a walk in the park most places, compared to prison - especially prisons filled with people like BK.

Being a "prefer death over prison" type of person, I am biased.

 

[gremlin444]

In my experience, the Defense Prosecution and Judge all had to agree before the Plea deal was presented to the Prosecution formally. No Defense or Prosecution is going to present a Plea deal that a Judge won't accept. So they all made the deal. I can see SG's point on this one, though you don't have to agree. It doesn't mean he might not have handled it in a different manner, but he's not wrong.

To clarify, this is what Hippler said in court on Wednesday at the beginning:

"I, like most everyone else, learned of this plea agreement Monday afternoon and had no inkling of it beforehand."

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1940934873751212339

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article309964765.html

[…]

Childhood friends of Bryan Kohberger, who pleaded guilty Wednesdayto stabbing four University of Idaho students to death in November 2022, have tracked his murder case from afar and said they felt shocked the former Pennsylvania resident suddenly agreed to a plea deal to spare his life.

“I won’t lie, I kind of spiraled yesterday,” Casey Arntz, 32, told the Idaho Statesman in a text Thursday. “Did he ever have thoughts like that before? Did he ever think that he wanted to kill me or my friends? Were we spared because we were friends with him?”

[…]

Kohberger’s admissions in court finally put any question of his culpability to bed for Jack Baylis, 31, another of their group of friends at the time.

“You wouldn’t plead guilty to it unless you did that,” he said in a phone interview Thursday. “If you were framed, you’d be fighting tooth and nail.”

Kohberger’s decision to take people’s lives was additionally disheartening, he said, because he had kicked his drug habit and seemingly had a life direction. But the desire to learn about people who commit murder — an area of interest for Kohberger — took hold, and he likely wanted to see whether he could get away with the perfect crime, Baylis said.

“I think he did it to see what it felt like, to experience it. If he wanted to write a paper about what killers feel and why they kill, to be accurate, you have to experience it yourself to truly understand it,” Baylis said. “To get into the mind of a killer, you have to be a killer, would be my guess.”

[…]

 

[acutename]

I think that all these families have been preparing for a long slog trial and the DP, and now suddenly before it even starts, it is over. Rug pulled out from under them.... prepping to stay in hotels, have time off for the trial, etc, and now, no trial.

I believe that SG is just angry: angry that his daughter is gone; angry that the DP will not be imposed even in this case that seemed so appropriate for it. He may decide later that LWOP is a longer form of torture but I think he is back in a primitive thought process where he would just like to see BK dead- maybe dead 4x over.

 

[DizzyB]

To clarify, this is what Hippler said in court on Wednesday at the beginning:

"I, like most everyone else, learned of this plea agreement Monday afternoon and had no inkling of it beforehand."

I get that the Judge didn’t hear of the actual “agreement” until Monday afternoon, but I think he had an inkling. Steve G said that during a Friday meeting, the possibility of a plea deal was brought up, and then he received an email on Sunday night. Do you think they completely left the Judge out of the loop until Monday afternoon? Is that the way that pleas work? I honestly don’t know.

 

[10ofRods]

I would think he left the sheath by accident ? In all the chaos ? I think this because he very soon after bought another K-bar knife and sheath directly after this crime, if I recall correctly ? He bought both knives from Amazon. I’m thinking he knows he lost that sheath, but in all the chaos and confusion, he does not know he left the sheath right by his first victim. Maybe in his misguided thoughts that he believes he is committing the perfect crime, he cannot possess a knife, without a sheath ? So he needs to buy a new knife, so he has the knife/sheath pair.

Now that I typed this out, does it even make sense ? Lol ? At first I thought there was some rationale that he would need to produce both a knife and a sheath in case he was questioned by police, ( he thought in his mind “educated” by his Criminology Class that he committed the perfect crime, and thought he could talk his way out of it ). However, if the police are even knocking on my door about a heinous murder I know I have committed, and i have a k-bar knife, with proof on my Amazon.com account I have purchased, not one, but two k-bar knives/sheaths, I know I lost the sheath somewhere ? I don’t think he knew where he lost it.
(I know I am too wordy, I try not to be ! I try to be more concise, it is a definite problem of mine.)

It's not a problem for the rest of us and you might want to revisit this self-criticism.

I had always thought he left it by accident, but the facts read out yesterday made me revisit that. It's still possible to be totally accidental. I agree that at some point, things were not going to "plan" (if he actually had one and wasn't an impulsive/psychotic killer). The photo from the next morning makes me think he does believe he had committed the "the perfect crime," which is obviously somewhat delusional.

It does not make sense because BK's thinking doesn't make sense and never will.

Your hypothesis that he rushed to buy a new knife is spot on. He probably wanted to show people that he still had the sheath. I think you're on to something there. Not getting caught, thinking about what to say to police (who meanwhile were pursuing other avenues for gaining evidence against him).

I think he knew he lost it that night - but not where. It may account for why he drove over the next morning (although his desire to prove to himself that LE was not hot on his trail was overwhelming by then).

Anyway, you're not wordy at all!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I feel LE did a fabulous job in this case - considering who they were up against.

I was interested to hear yesterday about a previous traffic stop by an Idaho officer that recorded his vehicle, lack of front license plate and personal details. I hadn't heard that before. So he was already in their system. And something had generated that Sheriff officer's concern - perhaps just the out-of-state plates are associated with drug dealers or something.

I'd always wondered how they got Washington State University involved, but this info means they found the Elantra in their own system.

IIRC, a campus security/police officer looked for white Elantras registered at WSU after the alert went out for a car of that make and color. Cars on university campuses, even those used by commuters, are almost always registered.

 

[10ofRods]

I get that the Judge didn’t hear of the actual “agreement” until Monday afternoon, but I think he had an inkling. Steve G said that during a Friday meeting, the possibility of a plea deal was brought up, and then he received an email on Sunday night. Do you think they completely left the Judge out of the loop until Monday afternoon? Is that the way that pleas work? I honestly don’t know.

The Judge stated that phone calls to him did not go directly to him (but to other entities, including police and security) over weekends. Judges would get no peace at all if they fielded calls on the weekend. They almost never do (new judges might). Both sides knew this and so they concocted an agreement. I think that BT and AT had a heart to heart on Friday, IMO.

I think they left the Judge substantially out of the loop until Monday, as I do not believe the Judge is lying, covering up or dissembling.

IMO.

 

[fcavanaugh]

I would think he left the sheath by accident ? In all the chaos ? I think this because he very soon after bought another K-bar knife and sheath directly after this crime, if I recall correctly ? He bought both knives from Amazon. I’m thinking he knows he lost that sheath, but in all the chaos and confusion, he does not know he left the sheath right by his first victim. Maybe in his misguided thoughts that he believes he is committing the perfect crime, he cannot possess a knife, without a sheath ? So he needs to buy a new knife, so he has the knife/sheath pair.

Now that I typed this out, does it even make sense ? Lol ? At first I thought there was some rationale that he would need to produce both a knife and a sheath in case he was questioned by police, ( he thought in his mind “educated” by his Criminology Class that he committed the perfect crime, and thought he could talk his way out of it ). However, if the police are even knocking on my door about a heinous murder I know I have committed, and i have a k-bar knife, with proof on my Amazon.com account I have purchased, not one, but two k-bar knives/sheaths, I know I lost the sheath somewhere ? I don’t think he knew where he lost it.
(I know I am too wordy, I try not to be ! I try to be more concise, it is a definite problem of mine.)

Great post. As to the BBM above, please don’t be so hard on yourself @NavySubMom. We all have our own ways of expressing ourselves/our thoughts/opinions and I relate to what you’re saying about wordy lol.
I’ve followed true crime for a long time and lurked here for a very long time (Jon Benet Ramsey case led me to WS) before feeling confident in making my first post because as a wordy person myself, I was so in awe of members/posters who posted their thoughts/opinions so much more succinctly than I could ever hope to. It’s a skill I admire but my brain doesn’t work that way if that makes sense. Anyway I believe we’re all here for the same reasons, we care about victims of crime and justice. And whether we express in a few words or more, most understand we are all different and different ways of expressing our opinions and how many words it takes to do so imo matters not. And those that feel post too wordy can just scroll by, I totally get it.

I appreciate everyone here no matter how many words it takes to make a point or express oneself, and whether we agree or not it’s ok we can respectfully agree to disagree here on WS. I enjoy reading members’ thoughts/opinions and just about every day I’m here, learn something new from the many astute members and verified professionals on WS, it’s a great community.

IMHOO

Kaylee,Maddie,Xana,Ethen, you’ll never be forgotten. xx

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I would think he left the sheath by accident ? In all the chaos ? I think this because he very soon after bought another K-bar knife and sheath directly after this crime, if I recall correctly ? He bought both knives from Amazon. I’m thinking he knows he lost that sheath, but in all the chaos and confusion, he does not know he left the sheath right by his first victim. Maybe in his misguided thoughts that he believes he is committing the perfect crime, he cannot possess a knife, without a sheath ? So he needs to buy a new knife, so he has the knife/sheath pair.

Now that I typed this out, does it even make sense ? Lol ? At first I thought there was some rationale that he would need to produce both a knife and a sheath in case he was questioned by police, ( he thought in his mind “educated” by his Criminology Class that he committed the perfect crime, and thought he could talk his way out of it ). However, if the police are even knocking on my door about a heinous murder I know I have committed, and i have a k-bar knife, with proof on my Amazon.com account I have purchased, not one, but two k-bar knives/sheaths, I know I lost the sheath somewhere ? I don’t think he knew where he lost it.
(I know I am too wordy, I try not to be ! I try to be more concise, it is a definite problem of mine.)

I agree that his intent was to commit the perfect crime.
My thought is he didn’t realize he had lost the sheath until after he left after killing Ethan. Everything had gone sideways and he needed to get out fast.
Just think. The prosecution had the time BK was in the house at about 15 minutes. Let’s round it up to 16 minutes so I can do the math. That leaves 4 minutes for each victim, though if course he could have spent more or less with some. Still, that is a lot of victims in a very short period of time. I doubt he had time to even think about sheath, much less look for it.
Also, I would say, the sheath was critical only because it had a dab of his DNA on it. I’m sure he was trying to convince himself that the sheath could not be traced back to him.
Also, I have a tendency to go on and on and on and on too sometimes. You’re among friends.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The Judge stated that phone calls to him did not go directly to him (but to other entities, including police and security) over weekends. Judges would get no peace at all if they fielded calls on the weekend. They almost never do (new judges might). Both sides knew this and so they concocted an agreement. I think that BT and AT had a heart to heart on Friday, IMO.

I think they left the Judge substantially out of the loop until Monday, as I do not believe the Judge is lying, covering up or dissembling.

IMO.

I think there's a gap between a change of plea to sentencing for a reason. A judge's job is to impose a sentence on someone who is guilty. The judge has time to ponder whether he is going to accept the sentencing included in the plea deal. In this case, he has nearly 3 weeks, so there was no reason for him to be in the loop as his job was to preside over the change of plea, advise BK of his rights. and then later to impose sentence.

Certainly the judge could have refused to accept the change of plea but in this case, there was no reason to do so other than the objections of 2 of the 4 victim families. (I do not mean to imply that those objections are small things, but rather that either way, people would be upset.) One way of another, BK is sentenced to death, as I think you pointed out earlier. The 4 fixed life terms plus 10 years just pushes that off into a more distant future.

 

[Absoluterubbish]

Here's my question after today's hearing: BK confessed to all 4 murders and they were ALL PREMEDITATED. My original assumption was that he went there to possibly SA and kill MM, and then he found both MM and KG in the same bed, which ruined his plan. So, he stabbed MM which she woke up screaming and KG started fighting him and he killed her. Then, he was going to leave and XK saw him come down the stairs so he had to kill her, too. But if EC was asleep, he didn't have to kill him because he had not seen or heard anything.

So, I was curious to hear that he went there with premedication of killing everyone in the house or just those 4? One thing I remember is that DM's room was originally on the first floor, but then, she moved up to the second floor. So, I really don't think he saw DM standing in the darkened doorway that was only slightly opened or without a doubt, he would have killed her too. He may not have even known that she switched bedrooms. If his plan was to kill everyone in the house, he would have gone downstairs to kill both DM and B(can't remember last initial). Another thing I remember from the early days of this crime is that B(can't remember last initial) said her bedroom door was locked so he would have not been able to get in her door.

Where did you hear this. The prosecution actually said the opposite. That they wouldn’t propose that he went there to kill as many people as he did.

 

[GA_Peach]

SG was way out of line to urge random people to contact the court and the judge in order to influence his legal decision.

As we ponder murder here daily, we should reflect that judges and prosecutors and law enforcement officers and even firefighters can be the targets for angry people. All SG's words need to do is gin up hate for the judge or the prosecutor and some guy not all that different from BK can take the law into his own hands.

It's not a "sham" to get a confession to each of four murders in court for the families and the rest of us to hear. It's not a "sham" to settle once and for all that the people who were "internet suspects" or were questioned by police are entirely innocent. It's not a sham to put this monster away forever. MOO

The whole notion of "justice" is a sham. MOO

Murders get due process; murder victims don't.

 

[LinasK]

He's going to be in with Chad Daybell according to this article.

Bryan Kohberger set to die in one of America’s worst prisons — with feces-smeared cages, riots and ‘biohazard’ ventilation system

He’ll serve his sentence alongside Chad Daybell, the child murderer and husband of “Doomsday” cult mom Lori Vallow, as well as two of Idaho’s most notorious serial killers.

nypost.com

Wonder if Chad will try to convert him to being one of the 144,000 "saved"?

 

[GMG1999]

He had the knife in his hand. Killed two people in the third floor bed. Heard something downstairs. Left the sheath behind, either with or without intention. Maybe just forgot.

Saw X. Still had the knife at the ready. Then went into X's bedroom, still with the knife and probably had it at his side in his dominant hand as he rapidly headed for the slider.

I assume it was still in his hand when he got to his car. It seems clear that he did not take time to put things into bags at the point, but probably had a plastic container in the trunk and tossed things in and peeled out. So he had the knife in his hand from the time he took it out of the sheath to use it, until he got back to his car.

That's how I picture it anyway. I agree that he was rushing. I think he expected to find MM alone. But was mentally prepared to kill any and all witnesses that he encountered.

IMO.

So he intended to just kill her? But why?

 

[Absoluterubbish]

The jury would have decided death, life without parole or what he received which makes him parole eligible!! I can’t imagine agreeing to life without the option of parole on a plea!

He 100% did. The sentences are consecutive. He will die in prison. He will not be eligible for parole in his lifetime.

 

[BUF]

“I won’t lie, I kind of spiraled yesterday,” Casey Arntz, 32, told the Idaho Statesman in a text Thursday. “Did he ever have thoughts like that before? Did he ever think that he wanted to kill me or my friends? Were we spared because we were friends with him?”

Thank you for posting this. Reading this from some of his childhood friends makes you wonder how many others have thought the same if maybe they could have been one of his victims at some time … maybe even family, neighbors?

 

[xjd11]

He had the knife in his hand. Killed two people in the third floor bed. Heard something downstairs. Left the sheath behind, either with or without intention. Maybe just forgot.

Saw X. Still had the knife at the ready. Then went into X's bedroom, still with the knife and probably had it at his side in his dominant hand as he rapidly headed for the slider.

I assume it was still in his hand when he got to his car. It seems clear that he did not take time to put things into bags at the point, but probably had a plastic container in the trunk and tossed things in and peeled out. So he had the knife in his hand from the time he took it out of the sheath to use it, until he got back to his car.

That's how I picture it anyway. I agree that he was rushing. I think he expected to find MM alone. But was mentally prepared to kill any and all witnesses that he encountered.

IMO.

how could he not know that there were multiple people in the house if he had been "casing" the place beforehand, as is speculated?

 

[zachs mema]

So he intended to just kill her? But why?

They represented everything he wanted but could not have.