GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[Chloegirl]

Same here, @twall, though I started with Episode 4. I cried throughout, especially when Maddie’s mom spoke—wow.

@Chloegirl, are you talking about the four-episode docuseries on Amazon Prime, “One Night in Idaho: The College Murders,” or the single Peacock show, “The Idaho Student Murders”?

The Amazon Prime docuseries was first available at 3 am Eastern time today (midnight Pacific time). I stayed up to watch it as soon as it was available and promptly fell fast asleep (as I always do when trying to watch anything late at night). I woke up in the middle of Episode 4, rewound it, and watched the entire episode, transfixed.

I’m not a local like you, Chloegirl, and have watched only one episode so far, so I can’t say anything about how accurately Moscow is portrayed.

Yes. I am talking about the one that came out today. Sorta bleh and I was hoping for more/better.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Yes I'm talking about the one that came out today. Sorta bleh and I was hoping for more/better.

Did you watch all four episodes? I have yet to see the first three.

 

[Chloegirl]

Did you watch all four episodes? I have yet to see the first three.

Yes. I could not sleep, so I watched the Amazon Prime one. I had planned to watch it tonight. I think after the plea deal, my brain wants to understand more. This did not help. It is not so much that I did not like it, but that I did not think it was done well or answer any questions or portray the town as it appears. JMOO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Yes. I could not sleep, so I watched the Amazon Prime one. I had planned to watch it tonight. I think after the plea deal, my brain wants to understand more. This did not help. It is not so much that I did not like it, but that I did not think it was done well or answer any questions or portray the town as it appears. JMOO

BBM

I wonder when the first book will come out that does fill in the details.

I recently renewed my subscriptions to the local Moscow/Pullman Daily News and the Idaho Statesman so I could follow their coverage of the trial. Now that BK pleaded guilty, I’m rereading past articles and reading the ones I had no access to after my initial subscriptions ended so I can understand the local context of the murders. Moscow certainly is an interesting town.

 

[Chloegirl]

BBM

I wonder when the first book will come out that does fill in the details.

I recently renewed my subscriptions to the local Moscow/Pullman Daily News and the Idaho Statesman so I could follow their coverage of the trial. Now that BK pleaded guilty, I’m rereading past articles and reading the ones I had no access to after my initial subscriptions ended so I can understand the local context of the murders. Moscow certainly is an interesting town.

Maddie's Mom came across really well. It is clear that she has done some serious work (her husband too). Healing is such a spectrum. RIP M-K-X&E

 

[Megnut]

Prediction: BK will not mix well with others in prison. His superiority streak will fail to win him friends, favors or street cred.

He will be kept in segregation IMO ... 23 hours a day. An hour for exercising and showering wouldn't surprise me. Not all that different than Death Row except no appeals. No field trips to county lockup for hearings. Just his vegan meals and time.

Let no book or movie glamorize him or exaggerate his average intelligence.

He chose a lethal weapon and unarmed victims whom he ambushed. No courage, no skill, no genius.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Notes on "One Night in Idaho" episode one:Hunter J knew Ethan and Xana were dead, but intentionally used the word "unconscious" to shield everyone from the reality of the situation.The house was sealed off immediately, and even paramedics were kept away.Everyone was interviewed individually at the police station that day.The friends, roommates, and Ethan's family stayed at a hotel that night.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I was thinking about SG. He seems like he thought he had some control over the prosecution of BK. He seems resentful because he was not allowed to be more involved in the process.

I understand he wanted BK to be executed and anything less is unacceptable to him because he, as a father wanted retribution for his daughter's murder and he was sure he would get that.

When talking to Peirs Morgan he said the shock of the plea deal brought it (the murders) back. I paraphrase but his words pretty much said he was stuck in time and unable to grieve until BK got the death penalty.

My hope is he realizes that experience of reliving the horror had BK got the DP would have happened every single time BK appealed and he attended the hearings. I hope he can begin the healing process.
Moo

You bring up the heartbreaking irony of SG's response to the plea deal. What he described--the shock of the bringing the murders back--is something like PTSD, or what my late therapist called "falling into a hole in time." Imagine the original killings as a kind of bomb that partly detonated and from there, all sorts of lesser and related "bombs" pile up--autopsy reports, the arrest, various hearings, what's said on social media. You get a big untreated pile of wounds. And then something big happens and that sets off all the bombs. He called that pile of untreated wounds a "blivet."

In his book on Columbine, Dave Cullen talks about how he, as a reporter, and the Columbine survivors, would have that PTSD experience when a new big mass shooting would happen--Va Tech, Sandy Hook, etc. That's was PTSD involves, untreated major trauma that keeps repeating as new events echo and set off the old wounds. I'm not a therapist, but I've been in therapy for years for untreated childhood trauma. It never fully goes away, but with insight and awareness, it's possible to realize when you are in present time and when you are down that hole in time, revisiting old wounds that in my case I can't even remember.

SG went down that hole in time. What is ironic (back to my original point and yours) is that the death penalty would trigger those old wounds over and over, as smug BK had appeal after appeal after appeal that he and the other parents would have to endure. Anger is often the cover for pain (including terrible grief) and fear. It's good that he recognizes that he's stuck but part of that stuckness, as you point out, is that illusion of control, that getting what he thinks he wants will heal that terrible set of wounds.

 

[Warwick7]

Notes on "One Night in Idaho" episode one:Hunter J knew Ethan and Xana were dead, but intentionally used the word "unconscious" to shield everyone from the reality of the situation.The house was sealed off immediately, and even paramedics were kept away.Everyone was interviewed individually at the police station that day.The friends, roommates, and Ethan's family stayed at a hotel that night.

I haven't got to watch it yet. But I knew without a doubt there were going to be nuggets scattered through all four episodes.

 

[Equal Justice Under Law]

You bring up the heartbreaking irony of SG's response to the plea deal. What he described--the shock of the bringing the murders back--is something like PTSD, or what my late therapist called "falling into a hole in time." Imagine the original killings as a kind of bomb that partly detonated and from there, all sorts of lesser and related "bombs" pile up--autopsy reports, the arrest, various hearings, what's said on social media. You get a big untreated pile of wounds. And then something big happens and that sets off all the bombs. He called that pile of untreated wounds a "blivet."

In his book on Columbine, Dave Cullen talks about how he, as a reporter, and the Columbine survivors, would have that PTSD experience when a new big mass shooting would happen--Va Tech, Sandy Hook, etc. That's was PTSD involves, untreated major trauma that keeps repeating as new events echo and set off the old wounds. I'm not a therapist, but I've been in therapy for years for untreated childhood trauma. It never fully goes away, but with insight and awareness, it's possible to realize when you are in present time and when you are down that hole in time, revisiting old wounds that in my case I can't even remember.

SG went down that hole in time. What is ironic (back to my original point and yours) is that the death penalty would trigger those old wounds over and over, as smug BK had appeal after appeal after appeal that he and the other parents would have to endure. Anger is often the cover for pain (including terrible grief) and fear. It's good that he recognizes that he's stuck but part of that stuckness, as you point out, is that illusion of control, that getting what he thinks he wants will heal that terrible set of wounds.

Just a thought: Maybe SG had planned a way forward, based on BK being on death row. He knows it would have dragged on for years, but he meant to go to every hearing, every motion, and speak his unbearable truth of pain & rage as vivid reminders to the decision-makers that BK is a monster who should die horribly. Every hearing would offer him a chance to act against BK, to hurt him. The plea deal denied him that opportunity.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

The now-available Amazon Prime four-episode docuseries, “One Night in Idaho: The College Murders,” is a companion piece to the upcoming book, The Idaho Four: An American Tragedy, by James Patterson and Vicky Ward (available next Monday, July 14).

If you’d like a taste of Vicky Ward’s writing, I encourage you to read her recent article about BK’s incel tendencies in the New York Post.

I also highly recommend that you read and watch her short pieces about the murders in Vicky Ward Investigates, available daily on Substack, FB, and IG (at least) since June 25 and leading up to the publication date of her (and Patterson’s) book.

Edited to change The Daily Mail to the New York Post. Funny how the two publications merge in my mind.

 

[MassGuy]

"One Night in Idaho" Episode 2:

"Destroying the drug rumors that have been pushed by some from the beginning. Ethan's mother asked Hunter if anything like that was going to come out and he assured her no.

They were absolutely hounded by the media and afraid to leave the house.Police were totally unprepared as far as communication went. This was the first murder in 7 years, and they just didn't know how to handle that aspect.The mayor took point on that, and that's where we got some of the miscommunication (isolated incident, etc).

Social media took over and began spreading unsubstantiated rumors and accusing innocent people of being involved (food truck guy, a frat bro, Hunter J, etc). Anyone and everyone was accused, and these people began fearing for their lives.Hunter and Emily were hit particularly hard with death threats."I lost my best friend and people think I killed him..."

Hunter J.Victim's boyfriends were also accused, with threats made and reporters hounding them.I forgot about this, but police came out and took the pressure off certain people who had been accused (roommates and food truck guy). For as bad as they were at communicating initially, they got this right.

 

[Megnut]

This Prime series is heartbreaking. The group that was huddled outside, all got campus alerts -- investigating a homicide -- and then -- 4 homicides.

It's how they were notified.

Heart. Stop.

that sad huddle

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

Just a thought: Maybe SG had planned a way forward, based on BK being on death row. He knows it would have dragged on for years, but he meant to go to every hearing, every motion, and speak his unbearable truth of pain & rage as vivid reminders to the decision-makers that BK is a monster who should die horribly. Every hearing would offer him a chance to act against BK, to hurt him. The plea deal denied him that opportunity.

Agreed. I hope SG moves on. His life doesn't have to be a "shrine" of grief over his daughter. Maybe some day, he will have gratitude for what BK actually gave him, an ability to not have to have that grief "band aid" ripped off so many times.

But, it is not now. I hope he does get this epiphany at some time in the future. Just because he can't rage against BK at every appeal, it won't change the fact that his daughter will never be back.

I think that SG displaced his grief into hatred and energy against BK. And now, that emotion, has no where to go. He was probably, not looking forward to the trial, but in a way, maybe he was, as a platform for his vitriol. And it may have been cathartic. He needs to redirect that energy somewhere else, not unlike John Walsh, who became a spokesman for so many missing kids and their families.

 

[Arkay]

I’m a Luddite who does not have any streaming services and who chooses not to be on social media.

I also don’t follow any podcasts regularly.

I appreciate the info from those of you who do have Amazon Prime, Peacock etc. I would pay to watch this if I could watch only this and not have to subscribe forever.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Just a thought: Maybe SG had planned a way forward, based on BK being on death row. He knows it would have dragged on for years, but he meant to go to every hearing, every motion, and speak his unbearable truth of pain & rage as vivid reminders to the decision-makers that BK is a monster who should die horribly. Every hearing would offer him a chance to act against BK, to hurt him. The plea deal denied him that opportunity.

While Maddie presumably died in her sleep, unlike Kaylee, Maddie was an only child. I can’t imagine the unbearable grief of Maddie’s mom and two dads.

Just as the immediate family members of a homicide victim in Idaho are considered victims themselves and therefore have the right to make victim impact statements and speak during the sentencing hearing, the immediate family members of a homicide victim must suffer the same five stages of death and dying that the homicide victim would have suffered had they not been snatched from life so quickly and so brutally:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Maddie’s mom shared a message in Episode 4 of the Amazon Prime docuseries, “One Night in Idaho: The College Murders” that I hope will someday help SG move beyond his understandable anger:

I feel like the struggle getting to this point was, “I can’t do this. I just can’t.” But it’s just not mentally healthy to waste time other than laughing about Maddie, talking about Maddie. It’s really all we do. There is very little place in my heart for holding onto anger. That’s not what you heal from.

A year ago I couldn’t have spoken to you at all. I couldn’t have articulated any of this. And it’s taken friends, family, time to slowly creep out at that really bad place. And it’s also reminding myself, like, how would Maddie and Kaylee want to see me? Would they want to see me crying in my pajamas and can’t get out of bed? Or would they want to see me talking about them, and how happy and how amazing they are? And that’s a struggle. You never know how strong you are until strong is all you can be.

 

[MassGuy]

"One Night in Idaho" episode 3 notes:

Fellow DeSales students talk about how incredibly smart he was. Kohberger commuted to DeSales so it was hard to learn who he was. One student says he was an "oddball." He was unable to behave in a normal human manner. Talk about how Dr. Ramsland would set up scenarios for them in the crime scene house.Kohberger's analysis usually helped them get to the answer.

Kohberger would ask questions that were "outside the realm of what we would ask."Fellow student talks about how Kohberger would have prepared for everything, but 100% of the time you have to deviate. He believes Kohberger drove back that morning thinking about getting the sheath.

WSU chief talks about the Elantra and how they were told to search for that model. They were told not to make contact with any occupants. Kohberger's name came up. This was not submitted to Moscow because the memo said 2011-2013.

Discusses Papa Rodger and his comments in a Facebook group. These administrators desperately want Rodger to have been Kohberger. This whole thing is incredibly dubious, and I wish they had left it out.Talking about Rodger mentioning the sheath on the 30th. Administrator thinks this is knowledge only the killer could know, despite the fact that this was widely discussed two weeks before Rodger mentioned it.

Kohberger's Pullman interview was awkward. His communication style wasn't fluid. A huge factor is developing trust, "that was one area where I felt he might fall short." He did not get the job.

 

[Missyrocks5]

I was thinking about SG. He seems like he thought he had some control over the prosecution of BK. He seems resentful because he was not allowed to be more involved in the process.

I understand he wanted BK to be executed and anything less is unacceptable to him because he, as a father wanted retribution for his daughter's murder and he was sure he would get that.

When talking to Peirs Morgan he said the shock of the plea deal brought it (the murders) back. I paraphrase but his words pretty much said he was stuck in time and unable to grieve until BK got the death penalty.

My hope is he realizes that experience of reliving the horror had BK got the DP would have happened every single time BK appealed and he attended the hearings. I hope he can begin the healing process.
Moo

Agree. The trauma to all the families with the endless appeals, and possible re-trial if there was just one hold out on the jury. The poor roommates also would be traumatized again. All of it is ended with this. I have seen both prosecutors and defense attorneys talking about how juries are continuously coming back with perplexing results. They all thought this was the best outcome.

But it is evident I believe that, although it is partly a way to channel the anger and horror from his brutal loss, it cannot be understated that part of that anger is undoubtedly because of their perceived strong aversion to the ideology of the prosecutor and the police force there. That's why he is always so careful to praise the FBI only. It is undoubtedly part of his anger thinking they are not tough on crime.

Hopefully, the family can channel all of their grief and anger into something beneficial to both honor Kaylee's memory as well as achieve something positive. I pray for peace of mind for all the families.

 

[mickey2942]

The Prime Idaho Documentary mentions that BK was studying Elliott Rodger. Interesting parallels.

Elliot Rodger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Misogynist terrorism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PunishThenForgive]

This Prime series is heartbreaking. The group that was huddled outside, all got campus alerts -- investigating a homicide -- and then -- 4 homicides.

It's how they were notified.

Heart. Stop.

that sad huddle

JMO

Didn’t DM and BF, at least, fear that Kaylee and Maddie had suffered the same fate?

It was the ruckus upstairs that woke up DM initially, and surely she shared this with BF. While together in BF’s room, the two survivors tried unsuccessfully to reach all four victims soon after BK fled the house.

I suppose, as survivors, DM, BF (and maybe the others who went into the house) would have been separated from those huddled outside, so they couldn’t tell their friends that Kaylee and Maddie may also be gone.

I look forward to watching Episodes 1 to 3 this weekend.