Please Read. The JBR forum is just a wee bit different than the rest.

[Tricia]

Kind of hard to be doing that much when you are dying of cancer though. Does Polly Klaus's mother do anything? Does Adam Walsh's mother? (name escapes me) Van Dam's father? I have never even seen any of these.

Yes, they all three have worked long and hard helping children and victims of crime.

 

[Tricia]

Tricia,
As owner of this forum, I say a big thank you! I love this site. I would be devestated if you ever closed it.

No plans to close this place down. I love it because of all of you guys.

 

[close_enough]

They "find" the note and stop looking for her, the police are steered automatically into treating this as a kidnapping.

right...there's just too many 'things' like this....there's been times that i wondered, did john & patsy have a plan to move JBR's body somewhere else??....what made him decide to 'find' her?

so many questions..

ETA...assuming the R's killed her...

 

[close_enough]

ok, i'm not "on topic" now....lol

 

[MistyM]

You will notice, for example, that the Ramseys are about the ONLY folks I and others know of who have had a child "abducted" and murdered who are not public activists in some way for child safety...

i think their circumstances are a bit different though since half the people think they are guilty for one. and there is no suspect to even advocate against. very strange case. i think they wanted to just lay low. after everything that's happened.

 

[Pepper]

This is my point Amy. You can say they didn't do it. You are welcome to do so here at WS. I will say one or both are killers and allow others to do so because they are suspects in the case. Yes, they still are.

With all due respect Tricia, what if you're wrong? Will you apologize to the family and all those that believed in their innocence if and when someone unrelated to the family (an intruder perhaps) is arrested, tried and convicted and the Ramsey family is totally exonerated?

 

[Animal04216]

With all due respect Tricia, what if you're wrong? Will you apologize to the family and all those that believed in their innocence if and when someone unrelated to the family (an intruder perhaps) is arrested, tried and convicted and the Ramsey family is totally exonerated?

What would Tricia have to apologize for? I believe the Ramseys are involved also but would be absolutely exstatic if it was found that they weren't. That doesnt mean I owe anyone an apology for believing they were guilty!

 

[Straitfan]

I am NOT even getting into a dispute on this one!:crazy: Cause I change my OWN opinion from one day to the next!!! (Sure dont need help with that!) The Ramsey's were/are their own worst enemy in my opinion cause just like Mr Klaas, you could lock me up/ leave me locked up until you found the person if someone killed one of my kids, but I do think the Ramseys are on a different level than " average joe's" such as myself.. (Not saying the rest of you are average!) I go back and forth, drives me crazy!!!:crazy: Sometimes I think the mother did it, sometimes the son.. I have never, ever thought the father (not sure why but I haven't.) Then....some days I think it was an intruder (someone the family knew though not just anyone!) Makes my head spin!!:waitasec:

 

[Toltec]

I don't recall anyone posting horrible things about Patsy when she died. Most of the posters were sympathetic.

The skanky bashed the VanDamms AFTER she was dissed by them. So other forums do bash victims families.

 

[txsvicki]

Kind of hard to be doing that much when you are dying of cancer though. Does Polly Klaus's mother do anything? Does Adam Walsh's mother? (name escapes me) Van Dam's father? I have never even seen any of these.

Yes, but Patsy was literally on her death bed finishing her painting. That, and the other things that she and John did in their lives shows lots of drive and ambition but they did nothing to fight for crime victims or children. I can't help but compare them to Mark Lunsford who was criticized at first for leaving his child with his parents at night to visit his girlfriend and he has gone on to really be a fighter even though he is not as well educated and still criticized by some for the foundation he started. I think he is great for all he does, but can't say that about the Ramseys. I also think Websleuth is great and a wonderful place for people who are interested in the missing and crime victims.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Here's one to start: attempted flight (literally) from the crime scene -- John caught making plane arrangements a half hour after revealing JonBenét's body. I believe that's called evidence of consciousness of guilt in criminal trials.

Mmmhmm, and there's the fact that they didn't seem to think the ransom note needed to be taken seriously.

They claim they called 911 before reading it all through, but if you discovered a ransom note and your child missing, wouldn't you read the note all the way through in its entirety before you decided what to do? Of course, it's your only link to where your child is and getting her back - her return is dependent upon adhering to the instructions in the note. That's the purpose of a ransom note.

Not only do they call 911 and never once mention the threat to their daughter's life, but they proceed to call over at least five other people. They had to have read the note through and seen the threat to decapitate JonBenet by the time they started dialing their friends.

After their house is full of people and police, they demonstrate no fear of the kidnapper whatsoever by sending their other child, nine year old Burke, out of the house to go to the White's with no police escort. Not only is JonBenet's head in danger of rolling, but now Burke becomes totally vulnerable to being attackewd as well. Let me tell you, if I awoke to find my 6 year old missing and a ransom note, my 9 year old would not leave my sight.

At this point, either the Ramseys care nothing for the safety of either their children, or they know the ransom note is bogus.

I also have to wonder about John Ramsey's 10 am absence, and the window he supposedly found open 1/8 inch. John claims in an April 30th interview that he went downstairs to the basement alone, unknown to Detective Arndt, and looked around, finding this open window. Then he claims he closed it and went upstairs again and rejoined the group, saying nothing to anyone about it - until this April interview, four months after the murder. Officers Veitch and French had been in the basement earlier that morning searching for a point of entry, and did not see this window open. Fleet White had also been in the basement looking around for JonBenet that morning and also did not see this window open. So WHY would John just close it and not say anything to police for four months? If it had been me, I would have began yelling immediately for the detective upstairs to come see it and examine it.

Then there's Stewart Long, Melinda Ramsey's fiancé, telling police that when they got to the Ramsey house, John Ramsey told them that JonBenet was gone and had been found at 11 am that morning. 11 am, when he was downstairs alone, noting the open window. JonBenet's body hadn't been found until 1 pm, but Long told police JR had said 11 am. Weird.

 

[newtv]

I posted this on another thread but I think it's important for all to read it.
Thank you.

Quote:


Here is the thing you all have to understand.

I got into the forum business because of the Ramsey case. I too believe it was an inside job.

I have seen first hand what the Ramsy's lies have done to innocent people.

The Ramseys make me sick. And yes, one or both killed JonBenet.

I usually don't come on the JBR forum at WS because I want to let all sides keep the discussion lively. That's why when I discuss the case I go to my other forum www.forumsforjustice.org/forums

Yes, I will allow anyone to call the Ramseys killers because one or both are. That's not just my opinion but the opinion of people much more knowledgable (sp?) than myself.

Is it unfair? Yes. I'll admit it is. But there are two things you have to remember.

1- Dear friends of mine have been almost ruined because of the Ramseys and their lies

2-I own the forum

I rarely bring out number 2 because I think it sounds like a power trip. That is not my intention. Really

Also give us credit. We allow fully and freely the discussion of an intruder even though I know this theory to be totally false.

Thank you for understanding.

i think as an owner you can do whatever u want to. The rest of us are guests and we dont have to visit.

 

[julianne]

Here's one to start: attempted flight (literally) from the crime scene -- John caught making plane arrangements a half hour after revealing JonBenét's body. I believe that's called evidence of consciousness of guilt in criminal trials.

I can see your point and how it may appear that way to those that think the Ramseys are guilty. On the flip side of the coin, however, presume they are innocent...
If he thought there were crazy, enraged murderers stalking his family for unknown reasons, he may, and did, think it entirely plausible to get them as far away from them and their last known whereabouts as quickly as possible. It can be argued that he was attempting to preserve what family he had left---it is in no way evidence of consciousness of guilt.

Come on, Capp...

 

[Tricia]

With all due respect Tricia, what if you're wrong? Will you apologize to the family and all those that believed in their innocence if and when someone unrelated to the family (an intruder perhaps) is arrested, tried and convicted and the Ramsey family is totally exonerated?

I have said many times that if I am proven wrong I will spend double the money and time apologizing to the Ramseys as I have on the forums which have accused them.

I say this because I know there was no intruder.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, I will allow anyone to call the Ramseys killers because one or both are.

Neither are.

Johnny-come-lately isn't either.

JBR's killer is a monster, just like the R's said. You'll know it when you've got him.

The problem with JK as a viable suspect is the same as with the R's, and that is that whoever killed JBR is an experienced killer. The cord and headbash combination is used by experienced killers, so that their victims of strangulation cannot be resuscitated.

Another sign of an experienced killer is nobody in jail. Bob Crane is a good example of a victim of an experienced killer who went unpunished.

 

[close_enough]

Mmmhmm, and there's the fact that they didn't seem to think the ransom note needed to be taken seriously.

They claim they called 911 before reading it all through, but if you discovered a ransom note and your child missing, wouldn't you read the note all the way through in its entirety before you decided what to do? Of course, it's your only link to where your child is and getting her back - her return is dependent upon adhering to the instructions in the note. That's the purpose of a ransom note.

Not only do they call 911 and never once mention the threat to their daughter's life, but they proceed to call over at least five other people. They had to have read the note through and seen the threat to decapitate JonBenet by the time they started dialing their friends.

After their house is full of people and police, they demonstrate no fear of the kidnapper whatsoever by sending their other child, nine year old Burke, out of the house to go to the White's with no police escort. Not only is JonBenet's head in danger of rolling, but now Burke becomes totally vulnerable to being attackewd as well. Let me tell you, if I awoke to find my 6 year old missing and a ransom note, my 9 year old would not leave my sight.

At this point, either the Ramseys care nothing for the safety of either their children, or they know the ransom note is bogus.

I also have to wonder about John Ramsey's 10 am absence, and the window he supposedly found open 1/8 inch. John claims in an April 30th interview that he went downstairs to the basement alone, unknown to Detective Arndt, and looked around, finding this open window. Then he claims he closed it and went upstairs again and rejoined the group, saying nothing to anyone about it - until this April interview, four months after the murder. Officers Veitch and French had been in the basement earlier that morning searching for a point of entry, and did not see this window open. Fleet White had also been in the basement looking around for JonBenet that morning and also did not see this window open. So WHY would John just close it and not say anything to police for four months? If it had been me, I would have began yelling immediately for the detective upstairs to come see it and examine it.

Then there's Stewart Long, Melinda Ramsey's fiancé, telling police that when they got to the Ramsey house, John Ramsey told them that JonBenet was gone and had been found at 11 am that morning. 11 am, when he was downstairs alone, noting the open window. JonBenet's body hadn't been found until 1 pm, but Long told police JR had said 11 am. Weird.

i had to emphasize some of this post....i just don't see how folks can just dismiss these kinds of things....i think it's obvious that investigators didn't, early on....so many things just never added up...still don't..

(gosh, if i don't stop reading, i'll never get to bed)

 

[Straitfan]

I personally would not say that makes an experienced killer! Especially considering the body was not found for an extremely long time.. Anyway, maybe the father was being blackmailed by someone he employed and didn't want to "out" the person because what he was doing something himself that would have destroyed him... Just a thought ...The family is EXTREMELY abnormal as to their reaction to a murder of a beautiful child.. (Guess I do think someone in the family is guilty or they caused "something" for her to be killed..

 

[Lurker Steve]

If JR (and PR when she was alive) were helping victims of crime, they'd be derided as hypocritical and as fakes by those who believe they are guilty.

IMHO.

 

[Straitfan]

Yep, you are probably right , cause PR had the time and money to do it while she was living, yet.....she didn't.

 

[Lurker Steve]

Yep, you are probably right , cause PR had the time and money to do it while she was living, yet.....she didn't.

So?

Is it the responsibility of someone whose child is murdered to be a public advocate for others?

Yes, it's a good thing, and I'm glad Adam Walsh does it.

But look at Charles Lindbergh - his child was murdered, and his cause was American isolationism.

In other words - it ain't proof. Or even grounds for suspicion IMHO.