Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[stilettos]

I realize she had a cold and maybe I'm just more casual than some, but as I have said numerous times, I would listen for her, but not wake her by opening the door and physically looking at her....all the more reason if she was fussy and not feeling well. I think it would be ridiculous to wake her.

This is not to say that IF Deb was fall down drunk, that it wasn't stupid and irresponsible, I would even say that specific act would be considered neglectful. On the other hand, I can also see having a few drinks and not realizing how badly they had hit her...I can also see her figuring she could safely go to bed since Jeremy would be home any second...

I don't know if Deb did something to Lisa, accidentally or on purpose. I don't know if she is covering for one of the boys. I don't know if she was pass out/black out/not drunk. I just don't think it's NEGLECTFUL to not check on a child in the span of 4 hours, during normal sleeping time.

I think it is neglectful to choose to drink irresponsibly when the sole caregiver for three infants, one who was sick. I understand that sometimes some children would prefer to sleep when sick...v/s a child that prefers to be soothed....but IMO not checking on a child who has a cough and a cold is not the wisest nor safest thing to do. As a mom, it is my job to be there for my kids...when they are babies and have a cold...they could have trouble breathing, cough up mucus to obstruct an airway, spike a fever....my job is to check, and check again...not to wake the child each time...but listen, observe and check...in case I am needed by a child who cannot help themselves. you cannot do that when you drink the amount that DB admits to drinking. Admits to drinking 2-3 times a week. i also think that something happened that night while DB was teh caregiver...by negligence or intent...something DB did or did not do (IMO) brought us to that baby vanishing and now the parents are "almost back to 100%".

 

[yllek]

I think it is neglectful to choose to drink irresponsibly when the sole caregiver for three infants, one who was sick. I understand that sometimes some children would prefer to sleep when sick...v/s a child that prefers to be soothed....but IMO not checking on a child who has a cough and a cold is not the wisest nor safest thing to do. As a mom, it is my job to be there for my kids...when they are babies and have a cold...they could have trouble breathing, cough up mucus to obstruct an airway, spike a fever....my job is to check, and check again...not to wake the child each time...but listen, observe and check...in case I am needed by a child who cannot help themselves. you cannot do that when you drink the amount that DB admits to drinking. Admits to drinking 2-3 times a week. i also think that something happened that night while DB was teh caregiver...by negligence or intent...something DB did or did not do (IMO) brought us to that baby vanishing and now the parents are "almost back to 100%".

I would have felt better about Debbi's not visually checking on the sick baby since very early in the evening if she'd had the baby monitor out on the stoop. Early on, I figured and hoped that maybe she did. But, if Shane B is to be believed, it is highly unlikely that Debbi was using the device to monitor Lisa while out on the stoop. It seems more likely that if he'd seen or heard the baby monitor while he was out on the stoop, he would have been aware that Debbi had an infant. Debbi claims that the baby monitor was on that night, in her room, and she never heard any signs of an intruder. She never mentioned taking the monitor outside for the almost 4 hours between the time she claims to have put Lisa to bed and the time she went inside and crashed. That dashed my hopes that Debbi had been concerned and monitoring Lisa's cold and cough while simultaneously having her adult time. JMO...

 

[stephen40]

stilletos up thread you wrote-

I think it is neglectful to choose to drink irresponsibly when the sole caregiver for three infants, one who was sick. I understand that sometimes some children would prefer to sleep when sick...v/s a child that prefers to be soothed....but IMO not checking on a child who has a cough and a cold is not the wisest nor safest thing to do

I'm probably 'older' then some of the moms here. I take comfort in saying I'm old school. lol My peers and I when we raised our kids didn't drink. Now weekends and babysitters equaled grown up time with the girls. But not on a school night. Certainly not when one of the children were sick. IMHOO

 

[Sabot]

Brining a turkey (and other meats) keeps the meat juicy and moist...can infuse it with other spices and flavors depending on what you add to it. We do not have turkey without brining...we brine and then you leave the drained and patted dry turkey overnight in the fridge to get a really crisp crust and super moist turkey.

By Brine do you mean salted water, and do you use Salpetre. And how long do you soak it for.
I have put beef and pork in Brine, but never Turkey. Always willing to try something new.

Sorry for going off topic.

 

[cityslick]

Yes, there was talk of the baby being sick. Her grandfather even mentioned that she was not feeling well at the Bday party on Sunday. And even DB had mentioned she had a bad cold.

The baby was in the crib at 4:30 pm according to SB. And she was not at the dinner table at 5:30, so she was likely still in the crib then as well. She was changed and given a bottle at 6:40, but then never looked in on again, according to Mom. Then Mom began to drink pretty heavily. I call that neglectful. If something had happened to the child, odds are Mom would be too drunk to be able to cope effectively. Which might have been what happened in the end.

If the baby was sleeping through the night (pretty normal at this age) and she was within range of either hearing her by sound or baby monitor, where is the neglect? 6:40pm isn't that unusual to put a baby down for the night (I know this because it was done from time to time with our daughter). I agree that at the very least she should of poked her head in the room before she went to sleep to make sure everything was ok but other than that, if the child is sleeping soundly, not coughing, it's not that big of a deal.

 

[cityslick]

I think it is neglectful to choose to drink irresponsibly when the sole caregiver for three infants, one who was sick. I understand that sometimes some children would prefer to sleep when sick...v/s a child that prefers to be soothed....but IMO not checking on a child who has a cough and a cold is not the wisest nor safest thing to do. As a mom, it is my job to be there for my kids...when they are babies and have a cold...they could have trouble breathing, cough up mucus to obstruct an airway, spike a fever....my job is to check, and check again...not to wake the child each time...but listen, observe and check...in case I am needed by a child who cannot help themselves. you cannot do that when you drink the amount that DB admits to drinking. Admits to drinking 2-3 times a week. i also think that something happened that night while DB was teh caregiver...by negligence or intent...something DB did or did not do (IMO) brought us to that baby vanishing and now the parents are "almost back to 100%".

This was brought up a few posts ago, but what if she had a baby monitor?

 

[cindysue]

I would have felt better about Debbi's not visually checking on the sick baby since very early in the evening if she'd had the baby monitor out on the stoop. Early on, I figured and hoped that maybe she did. But, if Shane B is to be believed, it is highly unlikely that Debbi was using the device to monitor Lisa while out on the stoop. It seems more likely that if he'd seen or heard the baby monitor while he was out on the stoop, he would have been aware that Debbi had an infant. Debbi claims that the baby monitor was on that night, in her room, and she never heard any signs of an intruder. She never mentioned taking the monitor outside for the almost 4 hours between the time she claims to have put Lisa to bed and the time she went inside and crashed. That dashed my hopes that Debbi had been concerned and monitoring Lisa's cold and cough while simultaneously having her adult time. JMO...

Not trying to make an excuse for her not being attentive..but she might have just told the boys to come get her if the baby woke up.

 

[cityslick]

I would have felt better about Debbi's not visually checking on the sick baby since very early in the evening if she'd had the baby monitor out on the stoop. Early on, I figured and hoped that maybe she did. But, if Shane B is to be believed, it is highly unlikely that Debbi was using the device to monitor Lisa while out on the stoop. It seems more likely that if he'd seen or heard the baby monitor while he was out on the stoop, he would have been aware that Debbi had an infant. Debbi claims that the baby monitor was on that night, in her room, and she never heard any signs of an intruder. She never mentioned taking the monitor outside for the almost 4 hours between the time she claims to have put Lisa to bed and the time she went inside and crashed. That dashed my hopes that Debbi had been concerned and monitoring Lisa's cold and cough while simultaneously having her adult time. JMO...

Once again though, as with every other interview and article in this case, the auto assumption is if it wasn't said, it didn't happen. Shane didn't mention a baby monitor, thus she didn't have one out. Was he asked specifically if he saw a baby monitor?

 

[Donjeta]

Once again though, as with every other interview and article in this case, the auto assumption is if it wasn't said, it didn't happen. Shane didn't mention a baby monitor, thus she didn't have one out. Was he asked specifically if he saw a baby monitor?

He said that he didn't know Deb had a baby though. I dunno, maybe a young man who may not have children of his own and be used to baby monitors doesn't have the same thought processes I do but if I see someone with a baby monitor I'm going to assume that they have a baby, probably even ask about it.

 

[hambirg]

If the baby was sleeping through the night (pretty normal at this age) and she was within range of either hearing her by sound or baby monitor, where is the neglect? 6:40pm isn't that unusual to put a baby down for the night (I know this because it was done from time to time with our daughter). I agree that at the very least she should of poked her head in the room before she went to sleep to make sure everything was ok but other than that, if the child is sleeping soundly, not coughing, it's not that big of a deal.

The only problem I have with this is that Lisa was supposedly in her crib at 4:30pm. To me that means that she had a late nap. My kids were all good sleepers as babies, but they normally wouldn't have taken a late nap and have been ready to go back down to sleep through the night by 6:40pm, regardless if they were sick or not.

MOO

 

[Donjeta]

She wasn't going to sober up in 3 hours time if she was fairly intoxicated. Also, lets understand what happened. DB, in her drunken state, needed to go in the house, do something to BL, make a phone call, find some way to dispose of BL (some theories have her taken to the MO river, that means going through rough terrain in the woods and then back, in the middle of the night), make some vm attempts, then get back in bed and pretend to be asleep before JI gets home.

All while being fairly well intoxicated.

If you start out smashed you're not going to be sober in three hours but you might be more functional. Where do we get three hours anyway? Do we know when she stopped drinking?

Anyway, none of the things you list sound particularly impossible to me after some things I've seen drunk people attempt to do, sometimes even succeed in doing.

Some people do drive drunk so it might be that the traversing rough terrain part is not necessary at all if there was a vehicle available, or a bicycle or something to be able to move faster.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I realize she had a cold and maybe I'm just more casual than some, but as I have said numerous times, I would listen for her, but not wake her by opening the door and physically looking at her....all the more reason if she was fussy and not feeling well. I think it would be ridiculous to wake her.
This is not to say that IF Deb was fall down drunk, that it wasn't stupid and irresponsible, I would even say that specific act would be considered neglectful. On the other hand, I can also see having a few drinks and not realizing how badly they had hit her...I can also see her figuring she could safely go to bed since Jeremy would be home any second...

I don't know if Deb did something to Lisa, accidentally or on purpose. I don't know if she is covering for one of the boys. I don't know if she was pass out/black out/not drunk. I just don't think it's NEGLECTFUL to not check on a child in the span of 4 hours, during normal sleeping time.

1st BBM - Funny how some give DB a pass for not checking on Lisa because by DB opening the door it might have awakened Lisa. If this is the case, then the alleged abductor would have woken up the sleeping Lisa and DB should have heard the intruder and her baby that was awake now as the baby monitor was on the bedside table.

2nd BBM - 6:40pm is not normal sleeping time for a baby of this age. True, it might have been a catnap but more than likely she would have wanted up to play for a while before bedtime. She might have been sleepy due to her illness and just slept through this nap but then that should have alerted this experienced Mother that something wasn't right and she needed to check on her child.

 

[cityslick]

The only problem I have with this is that Lisa was supposedly in her crib at 4:30pm. To me that means that she had a late nap. My kids were all good sleepers as babies, but they normally wouldn't have taken a late nap and have been ready to go back down to sleep through the night by 6:40pm, regardless if they were sick or not.

MOO

Was it said she was taking a nap though? I would think she would of had to feed BL during that time (even though nothing is said in the articles about her being fed doesn't mean it didn't happen).

 

[cityslick]

If you start out smashed you're not going to be sober in three hours but you might be more functional. Where do we get three hours anyway? Do we know when she stopped drinking?

Anyway, none of the things you list sound particularly impossible to me after some things I've seen drunk people attempt to do, sometimes even succeed in doing.

Some people do drive drunk so it might be that the traversing rough terrain part is not necessary at all if there was a vehicle available, or a bicycle or something to be able to move faster.

I'm assuming she stopped drinking when she went inside at 10:30 but that's an assumption, so it puts it more 4.5 hrs. I think the point I was trying to make is knowing what we know so far, some level of coordination was necessary to do all this and not leave anything around. I didn't even mention trying to hide the cell phones. When your drunk, you have a very low level of coordination (take it from one who time drank about as much wine as is implied here, and I think I have a pretty decent tolerance for alcohol).

 

[cityslick]

[/B]
1st BBM - Funny how some give DB a pass for not checking on Lisa because by DB opening the door it might have awakened Lisa. If this is the case, then the alleged abductor would have woken up the sleeping Lisa and DB should have heard the intruder and her baby that was awake now as the baby monitor was on the bedside table.

2nd BBM - 6:40pm is not normal sleeping time for a baby of this age. True, it might have been a catnap but more than likely she would have wanted up to play for a while before bedtime. She might have been sleepy due to her illness and just slept through this nap but then that should have alerted this experienced Mother that something wasn't right and she needed to check on her child.

BBM

Says who? We normally put our daughter down at 7:30pm-8:00pm at that age but it was not abnormal to put her down earlier around that time, especially if she hadn't napped a whole lot during the day. If she was sick it's even more likely she would be down early. Considering the fact my daughter was an early riser (600-630am to this day) she still was getting at least 12 hrs of sleep and that not includes nap (avg time for baby this age is 12-14 hrs of sleep a day).

 

[hambirg]

Was it said she was taking a nap though? I would think she would of had to feed BL during that time (even though nothing is said in the articles about her being fed doesn't mean it didn't happen).

We don't know when this time of Lisa being in her crib at 4:30 started, but it was said that she was in the crib. I don't know many 10month olds who are content to stay in their crib while awake for long. So I assume it to mean she had a nap. I can't think of any other reason a child that age would be in her crib at that time.

I do believe that sometime between 4:30 and 6:40 that DB tended to Lisa. . .fed her, changed her and then put her back down at 6:40pm. I don't think she wasn't fed. BUT I still think a baby that had a nap and was in their crib at 4;30pm still would not be content to go back to bed at 6:40pm and sleep through the night. She might have slept for awhile, but any parent knows those late naps are sleeping-through-the-night killers.

 

[Sparklin]

The only problem I have with this is that Lisa was supposedly in her crib at 4:30pm. To me that means that she had a late nap. My kids were all good sleepers as babies, but they normally wouldn't have taken a late nap and have been ready to go back down to sleep through the night by 6:40pm, regardless if they were sick or not.

MOO

Except we don't know if she was just playing happily in her crib or actually in there for a nap, so we can make a case for either side. Or maybe she was put down for a nap but didn't actually sleep, therefore was exhausted by 6:30.

 

[cluciano63]

Of course maybe the crib was her "babysitter" while Mom enjoyed her adult time.

 

[stilettos]

By Brine do you mean salted water, and do you use Salpetre. And how long do you soak it for.
I have put beef and pork in Brine, but never Turkey. Always willing to try something new.

Sorry for going off topic.

I actually use salt, brown sugar and tea with added spices. I leave mine to brine 36-48 hours and then drain, pat dry and leave overnight in fridge. Same principal as Beef or Pork..many restaurants brine their beef for steaks and prime rib.

Back o/t Hoping they find this baby soon. Deb, where is your baby?

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

FWIW. A picture of the baby monitor on the bedside table. I think it is the 6th one down.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052957/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Photos-Baby-Lisas-bedroom-handprints-wall.html