Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[cityslick]

In all fairness, WE don't know that she hasn't talked to LE about this. That could very well be some of the things they are talking to LE about. That wouldn't need to be a conversation that would require an interview that was separate from JI. This separate interview seems to be the only contention between LE and the parents, even admitted by LE. We haven't gotten a timeline from LE.
And also to be fair, DB was a the police station during the time of the Amber Alert being enacted. She might not have been aware of the information that it contained to be able to correct anything or not. It was enacted very soon into the investigation and never updated to any information during its time.

I agree and that's the biggest frustration with this case. There are things being reported in the media and that information gets used as fact when it's been proven multiple times that the reporting in this case has been below average, at best. Using things like the People article to form a debate is hard to understand because we don't know what exactly is factual in that (or any other) article. DB does not say certain things in an interview and it's automatically inferred that something didn't happen.

I understand the whole point of this forum is speculation, but to me, the speculation is being based on shaky ground to begin with.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I agree with everything you said, I just don't think parents are perfect in what their responsibilities are toward their children 100% of the time.

And I agree with this post. Parents are not perfect, some things are just out of a parents control. There are gray areas in every thing. DB according to her statements made the conscious decision to drink wine to the point of inebriation. She knew full well what the effects of alcohol would do to her but she chose to ignore that knowledge and go forth and drink with 4 other children in her house, 2 of which were hers, 1 she was left as the caretaker 1 was the neighbors child. DB is not an inexperienced Mother, she knew full well what she was doing. She could have stopped at 1 or 2 glasses of wine for her adult time but she didn't, she continued to drink and neglect her responsibilities as a parent. DB had ample time to stop herself but again she didn't. This is neglect. If one believes Lisa was kidnapped then if DB had been sober, she may have been alerted to the sound of a window opening or the lights being turned on or someone walking through a hallway, or opening a door, or picking up phones off a counter, or the baby crying when someone woke her, or the front door closing. She might not have woken up but due to her irresponsibility and need for adult time while in the care of her children we will never know if this could have been avoided. No parent is perfect, I realize this but some decisions we make in an instant are not the correct ones. DB had chance, after chance, after chance to make a different decision on the porch that night and chose not to. JMO.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

There are two different arguments going on this forum. One is this one, that she drank so much that she must have been too drunk/disabled to care for her children. The other argument is was she responsible for doing something to her daughter. IMO you can't have both scenarios. I don't think it's physically possible for the lady to be drunk to the point of blacking out, yet think she did something to BL and disposed of her as well, in the middle of the night.

I'm wondering those that are arguing about her 'blacking out' or 'close to blacking out' truly believe DB had nothing to do with BL missing.

I truly believe that the drinking is playing a big part in this tragic case.

 

[annalia]

There are two different arguments going on this forum. One is this one, that she drank so much that she must have been too drunk/disabled to care for her children. The other argument is was she responsible for doing something to her daughter. IMO you can't have both scenarios. I don't think it's physically possible for the lady to be drunk to the point of blacking out, yet think she did something to BL and disposed of her as well, in the middle of the night.

I'm wondering those that are arguing about her 'blacking out' or 'close to blacking out' truly believe DB had nothing to do with BL missing.

I don't see it as not being able to have it both ways, and I think both scenarios are very possible. When someone is inebriated, possibly to the extent that DB was, things happen, accidents happen. I'm not seeing anyone saying that DB set out to murder Lisa. Lots of things could have happened while she was heavily intoxicated.

Some of the excuses, I just don't understand. Maybe no one should be held accountable for anything, maybe drunk drivers shouldn't be held accountable either, after all they could have still gotten into an accident and killed someone even when they were sober.

JMHO

 

[yllek]

MW did the same thing though about the 8:30 call. After it got leaked that there was a call at 1157, on an interview with JVM, JVM references the 830 call and MW never corrects her. So what does that mean?

IMO, it means that Megan was told several different times as to when the call was attempted to her number; just like the "sources" who gave the same incorrect call time info to the media before we ever heard about Megan Wright. She always said "she was told by LE", never claimed to know the time of the call herself. For one of the 3 times she was given, Megan said she can personally confirm no such call came to her phone because she had it in her possession. For the other two times that were given to us and her, she has been consistent that she didn't have her phone and she had no idea if a call was answered, went to voice mail or what.

Megan Wright was interviewed by LE at least 4 times - LE has never indicated she was uncooperative or inconsistent, she didn't remain silent or criticize LE for being all over her, she has spoken out very publicly in attempt to clear up confusion and answer everyone's questions (you can read exactly what she was told and when on her FB or the Kansas City PI page), she responded to Cyndi Short and met with Cyndi and her sister to answer questions because they told Megan they were still working to find Lisa, and it appears now that the phone call probably never even went through to the phone in the first place.

So, I don't see Debbi's deception (either direct or by ommission) about the last time she saw her daughter with her own eyes as comparable to Megan Wright answering questions about "what she was told", which was 3 different times for the same call. Debbi's defense team appeared to back up Megan's story at their presser about the FBI phone chart, by saying the phones were restricted, the call was only "attempted", call outs were going to the Verizon service center, the two women have no connection....

JMO...

 

[Whisperer]

Donjeta, I think that some are confusing "blacking out" with "passing out" here.

Quick example. I was at a work function after hours once, in an unfamiliar part of town. I had followed everyone from work to the restaurant. When it was time to go, another coworker who was going my way had me follow him to the highway.

No problems, I had talked to him before we left, followed his car to the highway, and made it back to my house.

On Monday, when we were all talking about the event, he was surprised to find out that he helped me get back to the highway. He didn't even remember talking to me. He had apparently blacked out, and didn't remember the later part of the evening. I had spoken to him, and he seemed fine!

Correct...people function during the black-out. They will have NO memory of what they did during the black-out unless somebody tells them. They will never recollect either...for a true black-out is amnesia. People know when they black-out, however, it isn't a "possibly" sort of thing. They will awake from a black-out and could be anywhere doing anything, driving anywhere, with different clothes or even no clothes and have no idea how they got there and how long they have been there.

I stand by the fact that DB knows what her condition was that night. She knows if she blacked-out. She was setting up excuses for her behavior. If she indeed blacked-out, she may be worried she did something to Lisa. If so, she will never know what she did during it. It can't be recalled either since the actions are wiped out from the brain.

She didn't want to say she indeed was sure she had a black-out because that would make her a suspect. So she manipulated her wording to cover all bases....setting up perfectly for a defense, if needed.

 

[Sabot]

You just reminded me that its time to put the turkey in the brine.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Love to BL.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Why do you put the turkey in brine? Really interested.

 

[stephen40]

JMO, if they had no problem talking to LE they would be talking to LE. They're not.

But it's their right.

Such a simple yet strong fact.
ibm/mo

 

[Sparklin]

BBM - BL might have looked fine on Sunday but I can attest to the fact that on Tuesday of this week I was the picture of health. Woke up at 5:00 am this morning shortness of breath, sore throat, aches and pains, elevated temperature. 2 hours later was coughing up a lung and and hour later was choking on phlegm. Things can go from bad to worse in a very short amount of time. Not checking on a sick baby is neglectful. I know it and others know it. Why some others don't get it I will never know, matter of fact, I find it alarming.JMO.

Sorry, but I personally think that neglectful is too strong a word. No one said she was sick (except on the threads), just fussy. Unless it was a nap instead of regular bed time I don't see anything neglectful at all. I would def. be concerned and checking had it been nap time. But regular bed time? Checking how often? Opening the door, possibly disturbing her sleep? That just comes across as paranoia to me. To me, neglect would be if she heard her fussing or crying and ignored her. But letting her sleep through her fussiness ... not so much no!

 

[stephen40]

snippet

BBM

I don't think Debbi doing her media tour regarding the drunkeness and changed time line indicates that she is honest and was trying to correct the information to help Lisa. That is the most generous possibility, but certainly not the most logical possibility imo. She could have been honest and/or cleared up falsehoods in mutiple media interviews over the initial 2 week period that Lisa was missing, and she did not. There is a reason, imo.

JMO, MOO...

IMHOO this is one great post.
bbm/mo

 

[yllek]

Sorry, but I personally think that neglectful is too strong a word. No one said she was sick (except on the threads), just fussy. Unless it was a nap instead of regular bed time I don't see anything neglectful at all. I would def. be concerned and checking had it been nap time. But regular bed time? Checking how often? Opening the door, possibly disturbing her sleep? That just comes across as paranoia to me. To me, neglect would be if she heard her fussing or crying and ignored her. But letting her sleep through her fussiness ... not so much no!

BBM

Actually, it was reported right off the bat that Lisa had a beauty mark on her thigh and a cold and a cough. There are many links with this information cited by police after talking to the parents. Here is one of them:

Lisa has blue eyes, blonde hair, is 30 inches long and weighs between 26 and 30 pounds. She was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on it. She has two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear and a beauty mark on her right outer thigh. She also has a cold with a cough.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/amber-alert-massive-search-underway-missing-kansas-city/story?id=14663097

 

[deoneta]

Sorry, but I personally think that neglectful is too strong a word. No one said she was sick (except on the threads), just fussy. Unless it was a nap instead of regular bed time I don't see anything neglectful at all. I would def. be concerned and checking had it been nap time. But regular bed time? Checking how often? Opening the door, possibly disturbing her sleep? That just comes across as paranoia to me. To me, neglect would be if she heard her fussing or crying and ignored her. But letting her sleep through her fussiness ... not so much no!

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...ssing-10-month-old-girl-in-kcmo#ixzz1ZogwHwzt

The cold with cough was on the Amber alert release. The cough is what needed monitoring, im0. At eleven months, my daughter had a cold with cough and ended up with asthma. Luckily, I was sober and checked on her often so I realized she was in distress and was able to drive her to the ER at 2:00 AM. I suppose my experience skews my judgement on the subject, but I feel like this situation was neglectful. All MOO

 

[katydid23]

Sorry, but I personally think that neglectful is too strong a word. No one said she was sick (except on the threads), just fussy. Unless it was a nap instead of regular bed time I don't see anything neglectful at all. I would def. be concerned and checking had it been nap time. But regular bed time? Checking how often? Opening the door, possibly disturbing her sleep? That just comes across as paranoia to me. To me, neglect would be if she heard her fussing or crying and ignored her. But letting her sleep through her fussiness ... not so much no!

Yes, there was talk of the baby being sick. Her grandfather even mentioned that she was not feeling well at the Bday party on Sunday. And even DB had mentioned she had a bad cold.

The baby was in the crib at 4:30 pm according to SB. And she was not at the dinner table at 5:30, so she was likely still in the crib then as well. She was changed and given a bottle at 6:40, but then never looked in on again, according to Mom. Then Mom began to drink pretty heavily. I call that neglectful. If something had happened to the child, odds are Mom would be too drunk to be able to cope effectively. Which might have been what happened in the end.

 

[yllek]

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...ssing-10-month-old-girl-in-kcmo#ixzz1ZogwHwzt

The cold with cough was on the Amber alert release. The cough is what needed monitoring, im0. At eleven months, my daughter had a cold with cough and ended up with asthma. Luckily, I was sober and checked on her often so I realized she was in distress and was able to drive her to the ER at 2:00 AM. I suppose my experience skews my judgement on the subject, but I feel like this situation was neglectful. All MOO

Yes deoneta, I was linking the ABC interview based on the Amber Alert at the same time you were posting the NBC article. Jinx!

It is a fact that the parents of Lisa Irwin reported that Baby Lisa was sick with a cold and cough when she went missing. Debbi also described her as "fussy" later on, which may have been due to the fact that Lisa was sick. It is also now a fact (if we accept Debbi's latest account) that sick and fussy Baby Lisa was not checked on at all since sometime shortly after 6:40 pm on Oct 3rd, when her mom found her standing in her crib and laid her back down. It is also now known that Lisa's mother was drinking and hanging out with at least 2 neighbors on the stoop outside until 10:30 p.m., and she can't recall checking on Lisa before she went inside to crash. One of those neighbors, Shane B., was on the stoop from 7:30 to 9:00 p.m. and confirms that no one checked on the older children inside and also stated that he was unaware that Deborah Bradley had a baby.

 

[katydid23]

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...ssing-10-month-old-girl-in-kcmo#ixzz1ZogwHwzt

The cold with cough was on the Amber alert release. The cough is what needed monitoring, im0. At eleven months, my daughter had a cold with cough and ended up with asthma. Luckily, I was sober and checked on her often so I realized she was in distress and was able to drive her to the ER at 2:00 AM. I suppose my experience skews my judgement on the subject, but I feel like this situation was neglectful. All MOO

My son had a bad cold and a slight fever one weekend. Sunday afternoon. I put him down for a nap and he slept for hours. I kept peeking in and he was sound asleep. Finally, after 5 hours I peeked once more and saw him literally in a sweat. His face was beet red and he began to have a convulsion in reaction to the rapid spike in his temperature. I screamed for my husband and had him run next door to the woman who had 5 kids . She came over and calmed us down, explained it was from his fever and helped us cool him off and get to the ER. When changing him I saw that he had a sudden bright red rash all over his groin area, which ended up being scarlet fever. My son went from being ' fussy' with a cold to being very very sick in a matter of a few hours. If I had had a babysitter who was satisfied letting him sleep, without checking in on him, he could have gotten very sick that night.

 

[katydid23]

I agree with everything you said, I just don't think parents are perfect in what their responsibilities are toward their children 100% of the time.

Agreed. We all make stupid mistakes and do silly things. No one makes 100% perfect choices for their kids.

But this is what bugs me about DB that night: she had a sick infant, and she seemed not to care much about her well being. She put her own selfish needs ahead of her sick childs.

My husband and I drank margaritas many times after the kids went to sleep. I am not going to judge her for drinking after the kids were in bed. But this was not really the same thing. She began drinking pretty darn early. She does not remember when or if ever she saw the baby again after 6:40. That is neglectful. Kids need our full attention when they are sick.

 

[Sparklin]

BBM

Actually, it was reported right off the bat that Lisa had a beauty mark on her thigh and a cold and a cough. There are many links with this information cited by police after talking to the parents. Here is one of them:

Lisa has blue eyes, blonde hair, is 30 inches long and weighs between 26 and 30 pounds. She was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on it. She has two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear and a beauty mark on her right outer thigh. She also has a cold with a cough.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/amber-alert-massive-search-underway-missing-kansas-city/story?id=14663097

I realize she had a cold and maybe I'm just more casual than some, but as I have said numerous times, I would listen for her, but not wake her by opening the door and physically looking at her....all the more reason if she was fussy and not feeling well. I think it would be ridiculous to wake her.

This is not to say that IF Deb was fall down drunk, that it wasn't stupid and irresponsible, I would even say that specific act would be considered neglectful. On the other hand, I can also see having a few drinks and not realizing how badly they had hit her...I can also see her figuring she could safely go to bed since Jeremy would be home any second...

I don't know if Deb did something to Lisa, accidentally or on purpose. I don't know if she is covering for one of the boys. I don't know if she was pass out/black out/not drunk. I just don't think it's NEGLECTFUL to not check on a child in the span of 4 hours, during normal sleeping time.

 

[stilettos]

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Why do you put the turkey in brine? Really interested.

Brining a turkey (and other meats) keeps the meat juicy and moist...can infuse it with other spices and flavors depending on what you add to it. We do not have turkey without brining...we brine and then you leave the drained and patted dry turkey overnight in the fridge to get a really crisp crust and super moist turkey.

 

[yllek]

I realize she had a cold and maybe I'm just more casual than some, but as I have said numerous times, I would listen for her, but not wake her by opening the door and physically looking at her....all the more reason if she was fussy and not feeling well. I think it would be ridiculous to wake her.

This is not to say that IF Deb was fall down drunk, that it wasn't stupid and irresponsible, I would even say that specific act would be considered neglectful. On the other hand, I can also see having a few drinks and not realizing how badly they had hit her...I can also see her figuring she could safely go to bed since Jeremy would be home any second...

I don't know if Deb did something to Lisa, accidentally or on purpose. I don't know if she is covering for one of the boys. I don't know if she was pass out/black out/not drunk. I just don't think it's NEGLECTFUL to not check on a child in the span of 4 hours, during normal sleeping time.

I understand what you're saying. I was responding to your comment that nobody said Lisa was sick, just fussy, except posters on threads. That was incorrect. It is a fact that Lisa's parents said she was indeed sick. And, you are correct, Debbi also later described Lisa as being fussy the last time she saw her baby. Posters on threads are just repeating and considering those facts, as provided to LE and the media by Lisa's parents themselves. Imo, it's really important to keep the few facts that we have in this case straight.

I am not, and have not, stated my opinion regarding neglect or endangerment on any of the Lisa Irwin threads, for reasons of my own. I also stay away from attempting to diagnose the psychology of case players because I feel unqualified and don't think my guesses would add much towards finding the truth. I do however glean a lot of valuable insight from other posters weighing in on these matters.

 

[katydid23]

I realize she had a cold and maybe I'm just more casual than some, but as I have said numerous times, I would listen for her, but not wake her by opening the door and physically looking at her....all the more reason if she was fussy and not feeling well. I think it would be ridiculous to wake her.

This is not to say that IF Deb was fall down drunk, that it wasn't stupid and irresponsible, I would even say that specific act would be considered neglectful. On the other hand, I can also see having a few drinks and not realizing how badly they had hit her...I can also see her figuring she could safely go to bed since Jeremy would be home any second...

I don't know if Deb did something to Lisa, accidentally or on purpose. I don't know if she is covering for one of the boys. I don't know if she was pass out/black out/not drunk. I just don't think it's NEGLECTFUL to not check on a child in the span of 4 hours, during normal sleeping time.

But evidently, DB was NOT listening for the baby that evening. She was outside on the stoop drinking and smoking and talking with friends. She would not have heard the baby if she began coughing or choking or gasping. And later on she was too drunk to even check on her baby. She pretty much just passed out.

I agree that it is not neglectful to not check on a sleeping child for hours at a time, IF YOU ARE LISTENING now and then, and IF you are sober enough to be a responsible caretaker.

I do not know the exact percentage by heart, but I remember reading a sad statistic. In children's accidental deaths and manslaughter and abuse cases, basically all kids deaths at home combined, Alcohol is present in about 80 to 90 % of the cases.

ETA: also she has said that she drank 2 or 3 nights a week. So I doubt she was suddenly surprised by the drinks sneaking up on her. It seems that she knows pretty well how much she can drink and what happens to her if she does.