Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[Donjeta]

Good post. I too am not entirely convinced about who is to blame for Lisa being removed from her home. But, I remain most suspicious of the parents due to their post-disappearance actions, statements (made by them personally and on their behalf by their attorneys), and their refusal to use their high powered attorneys to protect their rights while answering questions separately for LE. The last one bothers me the most; by refusing the separate interviews, they are hindering LE's ability to most effeciently progress the investigation and find the truth of what happened to Lisa, imo. Even if they claim not to know anything more than they knew in the first 4 days of the investigation, LE knows more and needs to check things out with them. They are a roadblock, imo.

One point that is fuzzy in my mind that I'd like to see addressed is regarding the drinking time line. Here's what I understand:
-At 5:00 pm, Debbi comes home with a box of wine.
-At 6:30 pm, Samantha Brando makes a run to the store to buy liquor.
-By 7:30 pm, Shane comes by and says neither lady was drinking, though he could tell that they had been. He claims no one was drinking during his 90 minutes on Debbi's stoop. He leaves at 9:00 p.m.

Makes me wonder why they weren't drinking while Shane was present (unless they were and he just didn't realize what they were drinking). Had they been drinking heavily earlier and stopped for a while? Did they start up again after Shane left? If Debbi didn't start drinking until Lisa was put to bed at 6:40, that's less than an hour of drinking before Shane shows up and then she's dry for at least 90 minutes. Then, if she starts drinking again after he leaves, that's only 90 minutes of drinking before she calls it a night. We really don't know, however, what happened after Shane left. I wish we knew more about what was going on that night and who else might have stopped by or gone inside (and was the stoop activity normal or out of the ordinary).

JMO...

Good question.
I think when people say they've consumed 5 to 10 glasses of wine it's usually closer to ten because most tend to underestimate, not exaggerate.
She could be a faster drinker than I am but IMO it would be hard to down ten glasses of wine in a bit over two hours. Maybe they started earlier in the afternoon?

 

[In da Middle]

Really??

...Bad, bad PoPo.

Yep, they are kind of like teenagers! Make a big mess and leave it where it lies!

IMO we just can't make any assumptions of how the house was before this happened. We have no examples to be able to compare.

 

[Donjeta]

Investigators lifted manhole covers and searched the wooded area near the couple’s home again late Thursday for any sign of Lisa Irwin. Now, they have taken down the crime scene tape around the home and have shut down their nearby mobile command center.

This article is dated October 7.
I would guess that if the crime scene tape was down the family had free access if they wanted to. I don't know if they went there.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44813...issing-tot-cops-said-you-did-it/#.TtADG9WrTmY

 

[stephen40]

[/B]
1st BBM - Funny how some give DB a pass for not checking on Lisa because by DB opening the door it might have awakened Lisa. If this is the case, then the alleged abductor would have woken up the sleeping Lisa and DB should have heard the intruder and her baby that was awake now as the baby monitor was on the bedside table.

2nd BBM - 6:40pm is not normal sleeping time for a baby of this age. True, it might have been a catnap but more than likely she would have wanted up to play for a while before bedtime. She might have been sleepy due to her illness and just slept through this nap but then that should have alerted this experienced Mother that something wasn't right and she needed to check on her child.

The free passes are interesting. I can't give a free pass to someone who drinks alcohol and neglects their children. Especially a sick baby.

bbm/mo

 

[stephen40]

And there is no proof that she didn't have the monitor outside with her. Shane not mentioning it doesn't confirm or deny it, especially if it's a person that is young and is not familiar with such a thing.

The larger argument--there's no proof she did. Pretty much no matter how DB's actions are viewed that night --she was IMHOO neglectful.

 

[stephen40]

Except we don't know if she was just playing happily in her crib or actually in there for a nap, so we can make a case for either side. Or maybe she was put down for a nap but didn't actually sleep, therefore was exhausted by 6:30.

A nap for that day has never been mentioned. Lisa IMHOO was put down early that evening so ma could start drinking with her neighbors.

 

[stephen40]

BBM

Evidence.

DB had at least one 'somebody' cleaning up any evidence.
IMHOO

 

[stephen40]

In almost any murder mystery, it is almost impossible to convict w/o a body. When the parents DNA is over the house, how is anyone going to leave evidence if it were a soft kill.

But "Death" was very probable in that house. Why did the parents mislead LE when they arrived. They led them to the Baby's room and the open window. LE did not have persmission or any reason to search their bedroom..hmm. LE has stated they had conflicting information by the people involved in the case.

Now we have a cadaver dog hit in the parents' bedroom. BL most likely did not die in her bedroom and the parents were well aware of that. It is my opinion, they steered the investigation from the beginning AWAY from their bdrm. And now there is a cadaver hit. Another coincidence? How many do we have and how many people are gong to continue to find excuses for these two?

Watched a very interesting Women Who Murder on ID tv this morning while I sipped a cappuccino.

Doe the B's and I's have a freezer? Has it been checked? IMHOO

 

[stephen40]

BBM

Do you actually have a link for this (not giving LE permission to search certain rooms) or is this opinion?

I heard it like Whisperer did.
NOT every room was initially searched./...as in gone over with a fine tooth comb. I'm sure Lisa's disappearance was first looked at as a kidnapping by a stranger. That first day anyway.

IMHOO

 

[katydid23]

If the baby was sleeping through the night (pretty normal at this age) and she was within range of either hearing her by sound or baby monitor, where is the neglect? 6:40pm isn't that unusual to put a baby down for the night (I know this because it was done from time to time with our daughter). I agree that at the very least she should of poked her head in the room before she went to sleep to make sure everything was ok but other than that, if the child is sleeping soundly, not coughing, it's not that big of a deal.

But you have to look at the entirety of this day. First of all, the baby reportedly had a cold and a cough. For an infant, this can be serious. Normally, a parent is more vigilant with a very young child, especially one under a year, that has a cough and potential fever.

Also, we have heard that the baby was in her crib at 4:30, and was not at dinner with everyone else at 5:30 either.So I am going to assume she was in the crib still,because SB's last reported sighting was 4:30. So when it says she was put to bed at 6:40, that really means she was put to bed at 4:30, and then at 6:40, the baby was taken out of the crib and changed and given a bottle, then put back to bed. imo

And I disagree that it was no big deal. A sick baby needs to be checked on visually. Their fevers can spike, they can choke on vomit, they can have convulsions from spiked fevers, etc. Sick infants can get diarrhea, or the sweats, or rashes. And it happens very fast. So if mom is outside smoking and drinking, especially if she is drinking between 5 and 10 glasses of wine, then she is going to be useless in case of an emergency. So, imo, it is a big deal. It was a school night fo her kids. Did they do any homework? Were they prepared for the next morning? I don't think so.

 

[katydid23]

We don't know if Lisa was sleeping (or had slept) at 4:30. If Debbie put Lisa down for a late nap and she didn't actually sleep, I could see taking her out of the crib, letting her play, and then putting her down again at 6:30. If the baby was already tired, didn't nap earlier, and then was up again for a few hours, she could easily be down for the night at 6:30, especially if her normal bedtime was 7:30-8 (which we don't know, but is not an uncommon bedtime for that age, at least in my experience.)

Here is the problem that I am having with the scenario. The 4 yr old neighbor girl was at the home that afternoon. So why didn't SB report seeing Baby Lisa with the other kids? The only reported sighting from SB so far is her seeing Lisa in her crib at 4:30. How the heck did they keep her from wanting to play with the 4 yr old?

Now if they are going to say that she was kept in her room because she was sick, then why didn't anyone check on her after 6:40?

 

[Sparklin]

A nap for that day has never been mentioned. Lisa IMHOO was put down early that evening so ma could start drinking with her neighbors.

I realize that. I was responding to a post regarding her being in her crib at 4:30.

 

[Sparklin]

[/B]
1st BBM - Funny how some give DB a pass for not checking on Lisa because by DB opening the door it might have awakened Lisa. If this is the case, then the alleged abductor would have woken up the sleeping Lisa and DB should have heard the intruder and her baby that was awake now as the baby monitor was on the bedside table.

2nd BBM - 6:40pm is not normal sleeping time for a baby of this age. True, it might have been a catnap but more than likely she would have wanted up to play for a while before bedtime. She might have been sleepy due to her illness and just slept through this nap but then that should have alerted this experienced Mother that something wasn't right and she needed to check on her child.

If I'm awake I hear everything, if I'm asleep I hear nothing.

I don't know what normal is, but I certainly know many little ones that have gone to bed at that time for numerous reasons. My youngest would go to bed at 7ish and sleep through to 6:30 ... even with her brothers and sisters up and playing. That was pretty normal for our house.

 

[Nixie]

I have a couple of questions I can't find the answers to, did DB say she didn't check on her daughter after 630pm, or that it was the last time she remembered the exact time she checked on her......ex. I know I checked on her at 630 or whatever time, I looked in on her after that but I am not sure of the exact time because I didn't look at the clock/ know the exact time. Was the article only printing the times she knew and not printing if she checked but didn't know the time? Also when DB came out with the drinking story did she say that she was drunk to the point of not remembering somewhere or did she just answer the reporter when asked if she could have been. Did the neighbor say anywhere how drunk DB was or wasn't?

 

[askfornina]

I have a couple of questions I can't find the answers to, did DB say she didn't check on her daughter after 630pm, or that it was the last time she remembered the exact time she checked on her......ex. I know I checked on her at 630 or whatever time, I looked in on her after that but I am not sure of the exact time because I didn't look at the clock/ know the exact time. Was the article only printing the times she knew and not printing if she checked but didn't know the time? Also when DB came out with the drinking story did she say that she was drunk to the point of not remembering somewhere or did she just answer the reporter when asked if she could have been. Did the neighbor say anywhere how drunk DB was or wasn't?

BBM. the female neighbor hasn't said a word. but the male neighbor, Shawn, said that in the time he was there, he could tell the girls had been drinking but he didn't actually see them drink. that is the only information we have about how drunk DB was that didn't come from DB herself, to my knowledge.

 

[deoneta]

I have a couple of questions I can't find the answers to, did DB say she didn't check on her daughter after 630pm, or that it was the last time she remembered the exact time she checked on her......ex. I know I checked on her at 630 or whatever time, I looked in on her after that but I am not sure of the exact time because I didn't look at the clock/ know the exact time. Was the article only printing the times she knew and not printing if she checked but didn't know the time? Also when DB came out with the drinking story did she say that she was drunk to the point of not remembering somewhere or did she just answer the reporter when asked if she could have been. Did the neighbor say anywhere how drunk DB was or wasn't?

These transcriptions were kindly made by not my kids and posted in this forum.

From the 10-6 GMA interview:
Reporter: “So, so, so, Debbie, try and take us back to the last time you saw Lisa. You put her, you checked in on her around 10:30 Monday night?”

DB: “Um, Yeah. Between the time she went to bed and the time I went to bed, and uh, I gave her her bottle, I, I, I put her to sleep, and uh, that was the last time we seen her.”

Fron the 10-17 interview with Megan Kelly:
MK: “When you went in at 10:30, after the neighbor left, what did you do?”
DB: “Probably went right to my room.”
MK: “Why do you say probably?”
BD: “Because, um, sometimes, I check on her. Well, most of the time, I check on her. And then the boys, their room is right next to each other. And I sneak in and make sure, you know. And the boys had been awake, and I had went, um, in there, and told them they could come sleep in my bed. And, um, so, I’m assuming that I went and checked on her too, but, I don’t really know.”
MK: “You don’t remember?”
DB: “No.”
MK: “So, it’s possible you did not check on her before you went to bed at 10:30?”
DB: “Yeah. Yeah. But there’s no way that anybody could have got in.”
MK: “So the last time that you saw your alive, in your home, was when you put her down at 6:40?”
DB: “Right. When I put her down, yeah.”

In the People article this was attributed to DB, paraphrased: she put the baby down at 6:40 and checked on her a few minutes later. In other print articles which I don't have time to research right now, so I will say if I remember correctly, imo, she checks on her at 7:30 and sees her standing in her crib.

 

[askfornina]

BBM. the female neighbor hasn't said a word. but the male neighbor, Shawn, said that in the time he was there, he could tell the girls had been drinking but he didn't actually see them drink. that is the only information we have about how drunk DB was that didn't come from DB herself, to my knowledge.

Shane*, not Shawn. whoops :blushing:

 

[Donjeta]

These transcriptions were kindly made by not my kids and posted in this forum.

From the 10-6 GMA interview:
Reporter: “So, so, so, Debbie, try and take us back to the last time you saw Lisa. You put her, you checked in on her around 10:30 Monday night?”

DB: “Um, Yeah. Between the time she went to bed and the time I went to bed, and uh, I gave her her bottle, I, I, I put her to sleep, and uh, that was the last time we seen her.”

Fron the 10-17 interview with Megan Kelly:
MK: “When you went in at 10:30, after the neighbor left, what did you do?”
DB: “Probably went right to my room.”
MK: “Why do you say probably?”
BD: “Because, um, sometimes, I check on her. Well, most of the time, I check on her. And then the boys, their room is right next to each other. And I sneak in and make sure, you know. And the boys had been awake, and I had went, um, in there, and told them they could come sleep in my bed. And, um, so, I’m assuming that I went and checked on her too, but, I don’t really know.”
MK: “You don’t remember?”
DB: “No.”
MK: “So, it’s possible you did not check on her before you went to bed at 10:30?”
DB: “Yeah. Yeah. But there’s no way that anybody could have got in.”
MK: “So the last time that you saw your alive, in your home, was when you put her down at 6:40?”
DB: “Right. When I put her down, yeah.”

In the People article this was attributed to DB, paraphrased: she put the baby down at 6:40 and checked on her a few minutes later. In other print articles which I don't have time to research right now, so I will say if I remember correctly, imo, she checks on her at 7:30 and sees her standing in her crib.

This account just doesn't sit right with me because within the space of six sentences she says two opposite things. She assumes that she probably went straight to her room (without checking on Lisa first) and then her answer to the next question is that she assumes that she probably checked on Lisa.

She doesn't want to be straight about it for some reason and it bothers me.

I don't believe it's a lapse of memory due to being drunk because she remembers checking on the boys at the same time.

 

[cityslick]

This account just doesn't sit right with me because within the space of six sentences she says two opposite things. She assumes that she probably went straight to her room (without checking on Lisa first) and then her answer to the next question is that she assumes that she probably checked on Lisa.

She doesn't want to be straight about it for some reason and it bothers me.

I don't believe it's a lapse of memory due to being drunk because she remembers checking on the boys at the same time.

I don't see it like that. She's never affirmative because the checking on the boys/BL was a routine event. If you are used to doing the same thing every single day and then you can't remember exactly if you did that, the normal inference is you did it since you always did it.

I was the exact same way, it was a routine thing to check on the kid before I went to bed. Actually what we used to do is close her door while we were awake (made her sleep better) and then open it a crack before going to bed, to additionally hear for anything. That exercise became such a routine that I wouldn't even think about doing it. Now, if my memory the night before was inhibited in some way (like being intoxicated), my normal assumption would be that I did it, because it's what I always did.

Same thing could be happening here. She's not totally sure that she did it so she says 'I just don't know'. The only scenario where I could see where she wouldn't want to be honest about when she 'saw' BL would be if BL died when she was sitting outside (like SIDS) and when she went inside saw BL was dead and then had to do something about it. Only problem with that scenario is the dogs for sure would of hit all over the crib.

She could of easily said affirmatively that she checked on BL, despite not remembering it. She chose to actually say she didn't remember, because maybe she truly doesn't remember. That should count for something.

 

[lorann]

When we saw the pic of the parent's bedroom after the search, we have no idea of what that room looked like before the search. The rest of the house looks tidy and the room looks messy to me - makes me think it was due to the search. I have also wondered if maybe Lisa slept in the pak n play thingy, if so, her mother wouldn't have had to go to Lisa's room to check on her.