Poll: Did Darlie Routier murder her children?

[IrishMist]

I know about histrionic personalities all too well. I grew up with one in my household, (guess this is why I went to college for my degree in psych - trying to figure out my own crazy family)!

She claimed a rape - I'm assuming that that rape never happened?

I'm starting to question if she might have been one of those personality types like those with Munchhausen (sp?) Syndrome by proxy - the ones that cause their children to be chronically ill for the attention.

Well, isn't that cosmic? I was just thinking that last night! While I don't think she had a history of MS by proxy, I think it's possible at the end. If you have to go to more and more lengths for attention, how far will you actually go?

I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words this morning. I'll turn it over in my mind, and try to write a better post later!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Yeah, I think if she had MS by proxy, we SURELY would have heard about it. It's a pretty bizarre "disorder", and not extremely common, so I don't think that would've slipped through the cracks. I just mean that there are probably many disorders and potential actions that come out of the same personality type. So while one person might have MS by proxy, someone else might murder two of their children. Different manifestations of the same personality flaw. Some of the posts I've read this morning remind me of MS by proxy and got me thinking about what her personality has been like over the years.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I have been quite vocal about my doubts regarding Darlie's guilt however there is at least one big sticking point for me.

In the heart of the 911 call, Darlie sounds so genuine especially when telling her son to hold on. But at the beginning of the call, rather than just blurting out her address, she rambles about the intruder, and how she was fighting, and how he ran out. Do you think this is just the ramblings of a hysterical woman or do you think she was already trying to set up her alibi?

From the call, I just don't get the sense that she did this. If she did this, is it possible that she did it and doesn't even realize that she did? If you believe she did this, do you think it was premeditated? I personally feel that she might not have done this but that if she did, she snapped, and doesn't remember. At the very least, I don't at all believe that this was something that she premeditated.

Her injuries, although not life-threatening, are pretty impressive. Where would she have gotten the huge bruises on her arms? I just watched a clip last night with one of the jurors. For the first time I heard that Devon had a wound on his butt. The juror believed that the wound was because Devon was lying on his back and kicking at his attacker. She, (the juror), clearly stated that her belief was that Devon was the one who put all of the bruises and abrasions on his mother's arms. What do you all think about this theory? It does seem quite plausible to me with the possible exception that Devon was only 6 and wasn't wearing any shoes. Would he have had enough strength to cause that kind of bruising?

 

[cami]

She has what is commonly referred to as a "histrionic personality".
My memory escapes me (an all too common occurence these days) as to where I read it, but at Darin's graduation party, she claimed she was raped when she left.
Cami, Goody, DaniT, Jeana-- help me out here!

In other words, she is known to lean toward the dramatic, or maybe a better way to put it is that she let her emotions rule, instead of her head.

Yes, it was Darin's party for his graduation I believe. When Darlie wanted to leave, Darin didn't and stated he was having a good time. Darlie left but was back shortly saying that someone tried to rape her. She didn't want them to call the police, she just wanted Darin to leave. Darin did as she asked.

I believe she too has narcissistic personality disorder tendencies as well as histrionic. At the core of narcissists is repressed rage. I thinking her coping mechanisms failed that night and that rage surfaced.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I have no idea what to think of this case. After visiting the media section of the Justice for Darlie site, I find myself doubting her guilt. Of course, the real problem is, (as it often is), there is so much conflicting "evidence" that you don't really know what to believe.

While watching the videos of her just now, her body language, facial expressions, eye contact & movement, blinking patterns, vocal tones, etc., did not strike me as someone who is lying.

Her 911 call sounds very genuine to me, (especially the part where she is telling her little boy to hold on).

The bruises on her arms ... although not life-threatening are pretty intense. Did her husband do this? In my opinion, if she did get those bruises from a struggle with the attacker, the attacker would have to have had some marks on him as well. Also, when he speaks about his sons, his face lights up. Yet I must say that some other videos of him give me a different feeling but he seems to express such genuine love for those boys when he speaks of them.

If she was so shallow and self-centered that she plotted the murder of these boys so that she could be free, why wouldn't she have gone after the baby as well? I don't know guys ... oftentimes evidence can be skewed in either direction. Something doesn't seem to be adding up for me regarding her guilt and conviction.

I recommend that you read the trial transcripts.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

What should I look for specifically?

 

[cami]

I have been quite vocal about my doubts regarding Darlie's guilt however there is at least one big sticking point for me.

In the heart of the 911 call, Darlie sounds so genuine especially when telling her son to hold on. But at the beginning of the call, rather than just blurting out her address, she rambles about the intruder, and how she was fighting, and how he ran out. Do you think this is just the ramblings of a hysterical woman or do you think she was already trying to set up her alibi?

From the call, I just don't get the sense that she did this. If she did this, is it possible that she did it and doesn't even realize that she did? If you believe she did this, do you think it was premeditated? I personally feel that she might not have done this but that if she did, she snapped, and doesn't remember. At the very least, I don't at all believe that this was something that she premeditated.

Her injuries, although not life-threatening, are pretty impressive. Where would she have gotten the huge bruises on her arms? I just watched a clip last night with one of the jurors. For the first time I heard that Devon had a wound on his butt. The juror believed that the wound was because Devon was lying on his back and kicking at his attacker. She, (the juror), clearly stated that her belief was that Devon was the one who put all of the bruises and abrasions on his mother's arms. What do you all think about this theory? It does seem quite plausible to me with the possible exception that Devon was only 6 and wasn't wearing any shoes. Would he have had enough strength to cause that kind of bruising?

I felt that way too when I first heard the 911 call. I was shaken, very shaken but after you listen a few times, you get past that to what she is saying. Yes, I believe she's setting it up from the beginning. Think of what she says.

"someone came in, they've broken in.
Operator: "what"
D. "they just stabbed me and my children, my two little boys"
operator: " who, who did"
D. "some one"

Like you said, instead of just giving her address, she reams off all that to the operator.

Although Irishmist doesn't hear her answer the operator I do. I also hear her say things that made me question whether she knew the boys were dead, but then again I hear her say something about Damon to Darin and I just can't quite make it out. The tone of her voice when she says it disturbs me, as well as her going from what appears to be hysterics to saying "someone just walked in here and intenionally did it Darin" I can't shake the anger in her voice when she says this. Her mood apparently changes from hysterics to anger in like nanoseconds. I'm sorry, but I hear guilt all over that call. From her many "we have to find out who did this" to Darin and her "who would do this" over and over again.

No, I don't think she premediatated these murders. I think she snapped. Just my opinion though.

If you could see the Medical Detectives program, it might make a few things clear to you. Like the boys' cast-off blood on the back and front of her nightshirt, to the bloody knife print in the carpet in the murder room. The acoustics of the 911 call to the comparison of the fibre from the screen (Dani's speciality). No, you won't find the MD program on her website. I've seen it recently, Christmas Day in fact, here in Canada. Why would an intruder clean up the kitchen before he left? Doesn't make sense does it. There's a lack of blood where there should be blood.

I hope you are reading the trial transcripts as a balance to that website.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I haven't read much of the trial transcripts yet but I do intend to as you all make extremely good points. I'd also love to see the program you were talking about.

I didn't notice the anger in her voice in the 911 call. I'm going to listen for that again now that you mentioned it.

I agree that the intruder wouldn't clean up before he left but I assumed that any blood in the sink was washed away while she was wetting the towels, (but that is one of the sticking points for me - I don't understand why she would be wetting the towels except to be able to use it as a defense later on regarding the blood that was rinsed from the sink).

Lots & lots of food for thought. I'm going to read some more of the transcripts because there are so many good points mentioned here that would indicate guilt.

The story about the alleged rape ... not wanting to call police and being satisfied that Darin left the party with her ... that's definitely worthy of consideration.

 

[cami]

I haven't read much of the trial transcripts yet but I do intend to as you all make extremely good points. I'd also love to see the program you were talking about.

I didn't notice the anger in her voice in the 911 call. I'm going to listen for that again now that you mentioned it.

I agree that the intruder wouldn't clean up before he left but I assumed that any blood in the sink was washed away while she was wetting the towels, (but that is one of the sticking points for me - I don't understand why she would be wetting the towels except to be able to use it as a defense later on regarding the blood that was rinsed from the sink).

Lots & lots of food for thought. I'm going to read some more of the transcripts because there are so many good points mentioned here that would indicate guilt.

The story about the alleged rape ... not wanting to call police and being satisfied that Darin left the party with her ... that's definitely worthy of consideration.

Okay that program was called "invisible intruder" Maybe you will find it on your Discovery channel. They used to play it on TLC here in Canada but now that TLC is all decorating programs, they have shifted the line ups to those digital cable networks. I happen to have digital cable and have found Medical Detectives on our Mystery station.

That's my point about the lack of blood where there should be blood. Darlie was bleeding from both arms and her neck. She's at the kitchen sink allegedly wetting towels while on the 911 call. Where's the blood from her bleeding arms? We know she had a towel at her neck to cover that wound so you wouldn't expect that to be dropping blood. Why is there blood on the inside of the cupboard doors under the sink? Also look at those blood drops in front of the sink. It would appear someone stood there not moving around too much.

My opinion only but I think the only towels Darlie was wetting was in an attempt to clean up some of that blood that incriminates her.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I think Medical Detectives might be on Discovery Health Channel which I do have so I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the information.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

What should I look for specifically?

If you don't read the entire transcript, you'll always have questions about certain things. You've got to hear both sides.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I can't seem to find the transcripts ... only bits and pieces here and there. Anyone know where I can find them?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I can't seem to find the transcripts ... only bits and pieces here and there. Anyone know where I can find them?

http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Legal/index.html


All of the transcripts and motions since the trial are here.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Thank goodness ... I've been going crazy trying to locate this! I read that volumes 2 & 27 were missing but 1 is also missing. Where can I go to find those?

Thanks a million, Jeana!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thank goodness ... I've been going crazy trying to locate this! I read that volumes 2 & 27 were missing but 1 is also missing. Where can I go to find those?

Thanks a million, Jeana!

I have them on disk at home (hopefully I didn't already chunk them.). If you PM me, I'll try to attach them and send them to you via email. IF they're in the disk. I do remember a couple of volumes that were never put out there, but don't think we're missing anything important.

 

[Dani_T]

I haven't read much of the trial transcripts yet but I do intend to as you all make extremely good points. I'd also love to see the program you were talking about.

I didn't notice the anger in her voice in the 911 call. I'm going to listen for that again now that you mentioned it.

I agree that the intruder wouldn't clean up before he left but I assumed that any blood in the sink was washed away while she was wetting the towels, (but that is one of the sticking points for me - I don't understand why she would be wetting the towels except to be able to use it as a defense later on regarding the blood that was rinsed from the sink).

Lots & lots of food for thought. I'm going to read some more of the transcripts because there are so many good points mentioned here that would indicate guilt.

The story about the alleged rape ... not wanting to call police and being satisfied that Darin left the party with her ... that's definitely worthy of consideration.

Hey Jerseygirl,

My recommendation is you view the transcripts at www.justicefordarlie.net as they have them all indexed and you can view them online (instead of downloading them) and you can also search all the transcripts.

As Cam and Jeana have already mentioned- you really need to look to them as the accurate record of the evidence. Ultimately, there is a lot of about Darlie's behaviour both at and after the murders which I don't think we can make sense of (like the Silly String video for example). BUT it is not that which convicts her in my opinion- it is the physical and forensic evidence which just shows that there was no intruder.

In terms of the wet towels- Darlie didn't mention anything about wetting any of the towels (or being anywhere near the kitchen sink) until she came back to the house after it was released back to them and saw that the sink had been removed. Then all of a sudden she remember wetting the towels. Her nightshirt shows no signs of diluted blood on it which should have been evident if there was enough water to clean the sink of the blood.

Another interesting thing is that there is blood inside the cabinet underneath the kitchen sink where all the cleaning supplies were kept.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Hey Jerseygirl,

My recommendation is you view the transcripts at www.justicefordarlie.net as they have them all indexed and you can view them online (instead of downloading them) and you can also search all the transcripts.

As Cam and Jeana have already mentioned- you really need to look to them as the accurate record of the evidence. Ultimately, there is a lot of about Darlie's behaviour both at and after the murders which I don't think we can make sense of (like the Silly String video for example). BUT it is not that which convicts her in my opinion- it is the physical and forensic evidence which just shows that there was no intruder.

In terms of the wet towels- Darlie didn't mention anything about wetting any of the towels (or being anywhere near the kitchen sink) until she came back to the house after it was released back to them and saw that the sink had been removed. Then all of a sudden she remember wetting the towels. Her nightshirt shows no signs of diluted blood on it which should have been evident if there was enough water to clean the sink of the blood.

Another interesting thing is that there is blood inside the cabinet underneath the kitchen sink where all the cleaning supplies were kept.

Good post! If you look at State's Exhibit No. 111-C, it clearly shows an empty baby bottle in sink (right side of the two-sided sink). I would expect that an empty baby bottle would tip over VERY easily if someone were running water and running back and forth taking and bringing towels, etc. State's Exhibit No. 44-C shows the kitchen floor as do Defense Exhibits No. 41, 66, 68 and 69. The blood on the floor is NOT diluted as if ANY water had dripped on top of the blood on this surface.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I also noticed the baby bottle sitting upright, and also found it very odd. The undiluted blood is also odd. But didn't they, indeed, find wet towels on the scene?

Not that this implies her innocence ... the more I read, the more I feel like you might be right about her guilt.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I also noticed the baby bottle sitting upright, and also found it very odd. The undiluted blood is also odd. But didn't they, indeed, find wet towels on the scene?

Not that this implies her innocence ... the more I read, the more I feel like you might be right about her guilt.

They did find wet towels. I believe it was done in a very calm manner though and not in a "rush" to save the boys' lives. What I couldn't get past is all of the instances where her family says "yeah, but that doesn't mean she killed her kids." Sure, one, two, maybe even three times, one can say, that's true it doesn't. However, if there were "intruders," in that house, they would have to be the LUCKIEST intruders in the history of crime. I don't have time to list everything out, but the fact that the neighborhood is off the beaten path, they lived on a cul-de-sac, they didn't know who was home; they didn't know where anyone was in the house; they didn't bring their own weapons, they didn't wake up Darin; they didn't break anything in the home (except the wine glass); Darllie didn't scream while she was being beaten and trying to save the lives of her children; they didn't leave any evidence of having been there; etc. How many times in one case can we beliee they/he were/was just lucky? SIXTEEN different versions of the events of that night???? How many versions of the truth are there?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

What you're saying makes a lot of sense. I can see blacking out or post-traumatic stress but to ever have implied that she slept through the wounds that were inflicted on her, (even if she could have somehow slept through the attacks on her boys), is preposterous. And then the claim that her 5 year-old woke her up by pulling on her sleeve and that's when she felt a man climb off of her, (in one of her versions anyway) ... first of all, she didn't wake up from a full-grown man climbing on top of her but she woke up to a 5 year-old's tug on her shirt? Secondly, if a 5 year-old woke up to a strange man on top of his mother, would he get close enough to pull on her sleeve to wake her? Probably not ... he probably would have screamed or run outside or run upstairs, etc., out of utter fear.

I'm not through all of the reading yet but I can definitely see where you are all coming from.