Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[human]

Children kill for sure.

But, the reason most nations have a juvenile justice system is because it is recognized that the child is not developed. There is even brain research that indicates the brain is not functional until age 25. That is why terns make such unusual choices.

Children often wait for their dead relatives to come back to life

 

[MeeBee]

It would not be a stretch for many people. That's just a fact. If they found out they were carrying a fetus with such proclivites, they would view it as a medical emergency such spina bifida.

Maybe. But we have co-existed with sociopaths for centuries and such a thing has never, to my knowledge, been seriously considered.

In this thread, it's still a straw man since the only person suggesting it is you.

 

[Gecko100]

I think some children DO murder. I remember this case- a toddler was murdered by 2 10 year olds. In the UK back in 1993.
......................

James Patrick Bulger (16 March 1990[1] – 12 February 1993) was a boy from Kirkby, England, who was murdered on 12 February 1993, when aged two. He was abducted, tortured and murdered by two ten-year-old boys, Robert Thompson (born 23 August 1982) and Jon Venables (born 13 August 1982).[2][3] Bulger disappeared from the New Strand Shopping Centre in Bootle, near Liverpool, while accompanying his mother. His mutilated body was found on a railway line two-and-a-half miles (4 km) away in Walton, two days after his murder. Thompson and Venables were charged on 20 February 1993 with Bulger's abduction and murder.
The pair were found guilty on 24 November 1993, making them the youngest convicted murderers in modern English history. They were sentenced to custody until they reached adulthood, initially until the age of 18, and were released on a lifelong licence in June 2001. In 2010, Venables was returned to prison for violating the terms of his licence of release.
The case has prompted widespread debate on the issue of how to handle young offenders when they are sentenced or released from custody.[4][5]

Oh I remember that, they were very abused children too, ack, I can't escape them...

 

[SMK]

Children kill for sure.

But, the reason most nations have a juvenile justice system is because it is recognized that the child is not developed. There is even brain research that indicates the brain is not functional until age 25. That is why terns make such unusual choices.

Children often wait for their dead relatives to come back to life

Yes, the U.S. is very behind Canada and most European nations in that they charge juveniles "as adults", which is absurd.
Can a juvenile have sex as an adult? Then why can they commit crimes as an adult?

In Canada no juvenile can get more than 10 years, even for murder, and their names are not allowed to be released to the media.

Not so here: The USA is very behind its own brain science, it would seem!

 

[MeeBee]

Remember this kid?:

Eric Smith (murderer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He still chills me.

 

[Gecko100]

Yes, the U.S. is very behind Canada and most European nations in that they charge juveniles "as adults", which is absurd.
Can a juvenile have sex as an adult? Then why can they commit crimes as an adult?

In Canada no juvenile can get more than 10 years, even for murder, and their names are not allowed to be released to the media.

Not so here: The USA is very behind its own brain science, it would seem!

The same is supposed to happen in the UK, people went to extraordinary lengths to publish who they were. Does anyone remember Mary Bell who killed two children as a child, and went to rehabilitative youth detention?
She became a mother and leads a very normal life. Her life story is sensitively treated by an author who I can't remember the name of.
Gitta Sereny, is the author.

 

[shelley921]

Oh I remember that, they were very abused children too, ack, I can't escape them...

so those 2 boys were badly abused........ wonder if
Eric Smith -the boy MeeBee posted about who murdered & sodomized four-year-old Derrick Robie with a tree limb was abused?

wiki says he was bullied and made fun of by other kids...

 

[MeeBee]

so those 2 boys were badly abused........ wonder if
Eric Smith -the boy MeeBee posted about who murdered & sodomized four-year-old Derrick Robie with a tree limb was abused?

wiki says he was bullied and made fun of by other kids...

I don't know if Eric Smith was. I read his parents pled for him saying that he was sick and just needed help. He was bullied.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Children kill for sure.

But, the reason most nations have a juvenile justice system is because it is recognized that the child is not developed. There is even brain research that indicates the brain is not functional until age 25. That is why terns make such unusual choices.

Children often wait for their dead relatives to come back to life

I've never heard of a child older than 6 waiting for the dead to return to life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gecko100]

so those 2 boys were badly abused........ wonder if
Eric Smith -the boy MeeBee posted about who murdered & sodomized four-year-old Derrick Robie with a tree limb was abused?

wiki says he was bullied and made fun of by other kids...

It's the only way to understand it I think. Where would a child get the idea to sodomise?

 

[MeeBee]

It's the only way to understand it I think. Where would a child get the idea to sodomise?

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/smith-eric-m.htm

There's an interesting article here called Why Did Eric Kill? It has some info on his and why he says he did what he did. He was a very angry child. Was he abused? It's possible. But he told a parole board he wasn't. But has also said there were issues at home and doesn't elaborate. It's hard to say for sure.

The fear is that he may still be a danger. Some think he won't be but that's what parole boards are afraid of. He didn't just kill, he seemed to enjoy it. There's something he did that is similar to what Jodi did in that he called investigators offering to help out. It's like he wanted to be caught.

 

[SMK]

The same is supposed to happen in the UK, people went to extraordinary lengths to publish who they were. Does anyone remember Mary Bell who killed two children as a child, and went to rehabilitative youth detention?
She became a mother and leads a very normal life. Her life story is sensitively treated by an author who I can't remember the name of.
Gitta Sereny, is the author.

Yes: She killed two children but they refused to view her in barbaric light as a "bad seed":

Instead, they blamed her mother, got her therapy, and she is now a very dedicated mother.

Would NEVER happen in the U.S. !!!

 

[SMK]

It's the only way to understand it I think. Where would a child get the idea to sodomise?

Right: Children who want to kill, sodomize, are sick children, almost always having been subjected to something untoward.

Mary Bell at age 10 killed 2 male children: Turns out her prostitute mother had forced her to be a sex object for adult males.

She had a rage which she turned on small boys. As you say, she went on to marry and become a loving mother to her own kids. She has not hurt anyone since age 10.

 

[SMK]

This to me sums it up the best:

The Childhood Psychopath: Bad Seed or Bad Parents?
Born or Made? Theories of Psychopathy

According to behavioral geneticist Dr. David Lykken, psychopaths are set apart. They differ in temperament from other children and are at greater risk for delinquency. He has looked at the statistics on juvenile crime and concludes that only a few children with antisocial tendencies were born with such a predisposition. They are fearless and probably have a weak behavioral inhibition system.

However, Lykken contends that most antisocial behaviors in children are caused by poor parenting—absent fathers and inadequate mothers who fail to properly socialize their child. Perhaps the child frustrates them or perhaps their parenting skills are subnormal. Either way, the child acts out. Lykken calls these children sociopaths and he believes that we can decrease their numbers with better social skills.

He does acknowledge the twin studies that support the view that criminality has a substantial heritability factor, but claims that traits like fearlessness, aggressiveness, and sensation seeking, all of which contribute to antisocial behavior, can be properly channeled toward better things. It is up to parents to do this, and where parenting fails, the child with those traits may express them through violence. In other words, in his opinion, even the child most prone to psychopathy via inherited traits can be guided through good parenting toward using those traits in prosocial ways

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/psychopath/2.html

 

[Gecko100]

This to me sums it up the best:



http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/psychopath/2.html

Didn't the neuroscientist descendant of Lizzie Borden have similar proclivities?
He became a neuroscientist and discovered his own 'abnormality'?

 

[shelley921]

Yes: She killed two children but they refused to view her in barbaric light as a "bad seed":

Instead, they blamed her mother, got her therapy, and she is now a very dedicated mother.

Would NEVER happen in the U.S. !!!

I recall reading about a case of a couple in Alabama [I think]. They adopted 2 small children and were never told they had been abused. The girl began acting terrible - trying to stab the mother with knives and hurting pets. It was discovered that the girl's father had been abusing her from a very early age. The parents DID seek help for this girl and the younger boy as well. This was over 23 I believe years ago. I'm trying to recall the name of this child- she is now an adult and I think she got intense therapy and is ok now.

 

[SMK]

Didn't the neuroscientist descendant of Lizzie Borden have similar proclivities?
He became a neuroscientist and discovered his own 'abnormality'?

Yes, this is precisely what this geneticist and behaviorist is pointing out:

Traits such as lack of empathy or impulsiveness can be channeled into science, the arts, and many other areas. There need not be a perfect storm leading to murder. Parents need to know who/what they are dealing with, and take the appropriate, loving, caring measures to harness these traits.

Left alone, or worse still, provoked by neglect, apathy, or abuse, you are going to get criminal activity. Just as a spirited horse can become a show champion or a terror.

 

[shelley921]

ok I found it - Beth Thomas--child of rage

Child of Rage - The Documentary (Part 1) - YouTube

 

[Emmi]

This to me sums it up the best:



http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/psychopath/2.html

Yes, but I'd also like to hear him say in addition to "it's up to the parents" that it's also up to the child's village--as in, "it takes a village to raise a child." I don't think this sentiment is very popular in America or Canada, but, one has to consider that the nuclear family itself can be a little patch of (very private) garden grown wild with weeds of disorder and illness. Parents have serious responsibilities, no doubt, but if they don't have skills and energy and good health, full blame for a child's problems and behaviour is misplaced. No-one is an island, and neither is a family.

 

[SMK]

Yes, but I'd also like to hear him say in addition to "it's up to the parents" that it's also up to the child's village--as in, "it takes a village to raise a child." I don't think this sentiment is very popular in America or Canada, but, one has to consider that the nuclear family itself can be a little patch of (very private) garden grown wild with weeds of disorder and illness. Parents have serious responsibilities, no doubt, but if they don't have skills and energy and good health, full blame for a child's problems and behaviour is misplaced. No-one is an island, and neither is a family.

You took the words right out of my mouth! I was just thinking this: Suppose the parents are not up to this, psychologically, financially, socially? Shouldn't society have an obligation to guide such children???