Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

What Psychological Disorder do you think Jodi may have?


  • Total voters
    460
Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,161
I cannot answer those questions with any exactness, but there should be studies.

I would say in the case of Mary Bell and the Alabama child, both were abused under age 3, and the crimes were committed at ages 6 and 10. It is clear the responsibility lied with adults.

The treatment worked in both cases.

IMO the older the child the more difficult treatment becomes...

I believe eventually it is impossible with most approaches used today. Attempting to teach them empathy only arms them with another tool to manipulate. teaching them to mimic empathy is a very dangerous thing.

IMO the best approach in attempting to treat psychopathic children is showing them the benefit in it for them to conform and making the consequences as uncomfortable as ethically possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #1,162
Oops I forgot to mention it was made on the premise of the old Jesuit saying 'Give me the child until he is seven, and I will give you the man'.
 
  • #1,163
IMO the older the child the more difficult treatment becomes...

I believe eventually it is impossible with most approaches used today. Attempting to teach them empathy only arms them with another tool to manipulate. teaching them to mimic empathy is a very dangerous thing.

IMO the best approach in attempting to treat psychopathic children is showing them the benefit in it for them to conform and making the consequences as uncomfortable as ethically possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am going to have to go back and research exactly what these treatment protocols were, in both cases. I think it would be important to know exactly what did/did not work with these 2 girls, as it would likely indicate something general.
 
  • #1,164
I am going to have to go back and research exactly what these treatment protocols were, in both cases. I think it would be important to know exactly what did/did not work with these 2 girls, as it would likely indicate something general.

Is be very interested in reading what you discover.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #1,165
In the Child of Rage case, the doctor used a controversial treatment in which he deliberately and repeatedly provoked her rage, as a catharsis.

It turns out Mary Bell received no proper treatment of any kind: She simply changed and became self-aware as she grew older, and bonding with the author Gitta Sereny seems to have been therapeutic as well.
 
  • #1,166
Just an addendum on child murderer Mary Bell:

Were Mary's actions a result of a little girl who was born psychopathic and emotionless? or were her psychopathic actions a result of deep trauma?

Mary was described as very manipulative, and intelligent. She was known to be violent, and to lie often. This violent streak began when she was still a toddler, family said, she would lash out at them and hit them. In kindergarten, she had wrapped her hands around a classmate's throat and squeezed. It's unthinkable to imagine a little girl with such violent rage. When family members started to come forward about what Mary had endured in her young life, it started to make a little more sense as to how a young girl could turn into a violent and emotionless psychopath.

When Mary was born, her mother Betty's response was "get that thing away from me!". She was eager to drop Mary off with relatives whenever possible, and even once tried to give her to a woman who had been denied an adoption. Betty's sister, who had followed Betty, managed to get Mary back from the woman. Family member's say that Mary, at only 2 years old, started to become cold, detached, and withdrawn.

Other stories from family members came to light; Mary had watched her five year old friend get hit and killed by a bus. Mary's mother was a prostitute. Mary was frequently given intentional drug overdoses by her mother. It is believed that Betty suffered from Munchausen By Proxy, or MSbP, where a caregiver intentionally harms a dependent, in order to get attention from themselves. Betty loved the attention, and even lied to family members at one point that Mary had been run over by a truck and died. Most tragic of all, Mary alleges that her mother prostituted her out, using her as a sex prop and allowing her to be sexually abused by Betty's clients.
http://antonia-monacelli.hubpages.com/hub/Murderous-Children-Mary-Bell
 
  • #1,167
  • #1,168
  • #1,169
Neither does sociopathy. That's not a symptom of anything. It's a choice someone makes.

Not all ASPDs are murderers. And not all murderers are ASPDs.

I think you're taking quite a leap. How did we get from sociopathy to abortion? That's a straw man.

These people are real. Can we not talk about them?

The Straw Man liveth and abideth here.

On the nature vs nurture debate as it relates to Jodi Arias, my own conclusions after considering all the Great Theories, is that Jodi was not laboring under a mental illness so great that she could not conform her actions to the law or the social contract.

She's very aware of what the social contract is. She knew very well that asking to freshen up for her mug shot was shallow. She quite often gives the nod to the social contract but then forges ahead and violates it, anyway.

I don't see any evidence that Jodi was so severely abused that it should be considered as mitigating her actions. I DON"T CARE if her feelings were really hurt as an adult. I DO care very much for any little child who is suffering emotionally, but it is never an excuse to do what she did to Travis. I don't give a darn how mean he was to her. Jodi is just taking advantage of long-held beliefs about the vulnerability of women to love relationships.

If anyone at all shows any sympathy toward Jodi, she'll turn you into mincemeat before you know what hit you.

The only nod I can give her is that if she doesn't have feelings of empathy, she doesn't have them. If she was born that way, it's not her fault. There have been some promising studies on the brains of psychopaths, and I hope like hell some kind of treatment can be formed in the future. In the meantime, people without empathy do understand what is expected of them intellectually, and they better conform their actions to the law, or they may find themselves facing the death penalty if they decide to murder. Got it, APD's? We won't stand for it.
 
  • #1,170
The Straw Man liveth and abideth here.

On the nature vs nurture debate as it relates to Jodi Arias, my own conclusions after considering all the Great Theories, is that Jodi was not laboring under a mental illness so great that she could not conform her actions to the law or the social contract.

She's very aware of what the social contract is. She knew very well that asking to freshen up for her mug shot was shallow. She quite often gives the nod to the social contract but then forges ahead and violates it, anyway.

I don't see any evidence that Jodi was so severely abused that it should be considered as mitigating her actions. I DON"T CARE if her feelings were really hurt as an adult. I DO care very much for any little child who is suffering emotionally, but it is never an excuse to do what she did to Travis. I don't give a darn how mean he was to her. Jodi is just taking advantage of long-held beliefs about the vulnerability of women to love relationships.

If anyone at all shows any sympathy toward Jodi, she'll turn you into mincemeat before you know what hit you.

The only nod I can give her is that if she doesn't have feelings of empathy, she doesn't have them. If she was born that way, it's not her fault. There have been some promising studies on the brains of psychopaths, and I hope like hell some kind of treatment can be formed in the future. In the meantime, people without empathy do understand what is expected of them intellectually, and they better conform their actions to the law, or they may find themselves facing the death penalty if they decide to murder. Got it, APD's? We won't stand for it.
I understand what you are saying, and have strong inclinations to most of it regarding Arias.

While it is very important to understand what went wrong in childhood, I would have to agree that I myself - as much as I blame a lot of my life on the past - would never have thought of harming another person.

Yes, many people who have been victims of narcissistic lovers in terms of being dumped, being extorted, etc., have wondered why the N did not honor the social contract, regardless of their own lack of empathy.

If Arias tried to play the wounded woman card, it did not work. I do believe that getting involved with TA was diametrically opposed to her genuine self-interest, but of course murder was not any avenue to take. I have a certain amount of sympathy for her but that never precluded feeling she should be held responsible on some serious level for the murder. I do not believe she is fully evil, though, or fully ASP.
 
  • #1,171
I do not think anyone wants Jodi out there.

She should be locked up forever. Whatever her issues are, she cannot out here with the rest of us.

I do not want anymore Jodi's. Dream on, I know.

But we do change and get better as a society. We generally don't have four year old's working in factories here in the US, although we purchase goods from other countries that have those conditions.

We have Child Protection Services which we did not have until early 1900's.

We are trying to go for equality, although some are fighting it to the bitter end.

The internet was not even a dream 100 years ago.

Women are not considered possessions in theory here in the US, but it seems we are still working on that.

Anyway, we can and will make advances . Who knows what amazement we have to look forward to?
 
  • #1,172
Also, I did not mean to set up a Straw Man with my pointing out children of abuse:

I honestly believe that it is important to understand the true dynamics and etiology of sociopathology - including the broader social dynamics - if less Arias-like crimes are to happen.

Was not trying to play the "bleeding heart liberal": I truly think enlightenment about what goes wrong on the way to adulthood is important. All grist for the mill.
 
  • #1,173
I do not think anyone wants Jodi out there.

She should be locked up forever. Whatever her issues are, she cannot out here with the rest of us.

I do not want anymore Jodi's. Dream on, I know.

But we do change and get better as a society. We generally don't have four year old's working in factories here in the US, although we purchase goods from other countries that have those conditions.

We have Child Protection Services which we did not have until early 1900's.

We are trying to go for equality, although some are fighting it to the bitter end.

The internet was not even a dream 100 years ago.

Women are not considered possessions in theory here in the US, but it seems we are still working on that.

Anyway, we can and will make advances . Who knows what amazement we have to look forward to?
Your words are very inspiring and welcome, but what I bolded above is what concerns me.

The philosopher Schopenhauer said that for every advance, the human ego is able to subtly go back to the old conditions in some other form or in some other area. This is why enlightenment and change must be truly global.
 
  • #1,174
In the Child of Rage case, the doctor used a controversial treatment in which he deliberately and repeatedly provoked her rage, as a catharsis.

It turns out Mary Bell received no proper treatment of any kind: She simply changed and became self-aware as she grew older, and bonding with the author Gitta Sereny seems to have been therapeutic as well.

I know there are huge strides in treating children suffering from horrible trauma as well as attachment issues including RAD using EMDR.

IMO EMDR should be mandatory for all children taken into care by CPS along with cognitive behavior therapy.

EMDR is so simple, cheap and effective. I'm shocked insurance companies don't require it before other more costly, time consuming, and ineffective models.

IMO



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #1,175
I know there are huge strides in treating children suffering from horrible trauma as well as attachment issues including RAD using EMDR.

IMO EMDR should be mandatory for all children taken into care by CPS along with cognitive behavior therapy.

EMDR is so simple, cheap and effective. I'm shocked insurance companies don't require it before other more costly, time consuming, and ineffective models.

IMO



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just looked up EMDR because not being in the world of therapy, I had never heard of it. Now, I do recall years ago a friend telling me her therapist used it. If it is as effective as you say, then I do hope it becomes required treatment and recognized and favored by insurance companies.
 
  • #1,176
I don't believe a child has the capacity to choose murder.

Yes, they are real, and hence ought to be talked about, but probably not here.

I think they do. I also think being a child is a huge mitigating factor.
 
  • #1,177
In light of the topic of this thread I wanted to share this with you all... to see girls, unlike Jodi Ann Arias, who have managed to transcend their circumstances at all costs. (truthfully this is a shameless way to share this with the wonderful people on this thread):

Hey everyone I wanted to stop in and give you all a heads up to an amazing documentary called Girl Rising that will air Sunday June 16th at 9:00pm on CNN.

My daughter and I are attending a screening tonight (that people had to spend $10 a ticket to see), so this is an incredible opportunity for people to see this film for free.

Unfortunately it is Father's Day but if you aren't around please consider setting your DVR's- you won't be disappointed!

You can see the trailer here:

10x10 Presents Girl Rising (Official Trailer) - YouTube
 
  • #1,178
Oh help, - the look of utter pain on that child's face...Sorry, can't look at the documentary because of work flashbacks, but I can imagine it. I could never watch it my heart might stop.

It's excellent, and they were able to help the child with her empathy. Such an exciting break-through for her. Unfortunately, the program she was in lost favor when a child died from one of the therapies.
 
  • #1,179
It's excellent, and they were able to help the child with her empathy. Such an exciting break-through for her. Unfortunately, the program she was in lost favor when a child died from one of the therapies.

Rebirthing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #1,180
Rebirthing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I think that was it. They had her in a sleeping bag or something and someone was putting a lot of weight on her. She said she couldn't breathe, and they laughed and ridiculed her. Truly pathetic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
132
Guests online
2,967
Total visitors
3,099

Forum statistics

Threads
632,570
Messages
18,628,573
Members
243,198
Latest member
ghghhh13
Back
Top