Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[shelley921]

Just to clarify as to my own posting: I was absolutely tying the makeup and heels into Jodi's psyche and drawing on a very important concept in feminine psychology, which has been written about extensively by Horney. It seems to have been exhausted as a topic, though.

Indeed. I agree with this. It seems very relevant to me as well.

 

[OEJ]

I think, perhaps, Jodi was just trying to be the quintessential feminine. The perfect woman as portrayed by the widely diverging expectations of our society. Perfectly coiffed, perfect business woman, perfect wholesome wife and mother material, and perfect sex partner for her man at night. Maybe she didn't want anyone to see the raging storm inside because she wanted to belong, and since she couldn't control her inner world, she chose to control the image she projected.

Unfortunately, you can never feel really fulfilled unless your intimate accepts your authentic self, warts and all, so she was doomed to never feel authentically loved.

She was a real hard-ass as far as how high her walls were. I think what she "yearned" and "thirsted" for was someone to completely encapsulate her in their love and acceptance so she could safely pull down her walls and be introduced to and rebuild an authentic self. But, that accepting person was going to have to pass all the tests to see if they were worthy, first.

 

[SMK]

Indeed. I agree with this. It seems very relevant to me as well.

Thank you, as I certainly thought so.

 

[SMK]

I think, perhaps, Jodi was just trying to be the quintessential feminine. The perfect woman as portrayed by the widely diverging expectations of our society. Perfectly coiffed, perfect business woman, perfect wholesome wife and mother material, and perfect sex partner for her man at night. Maybe she didn't want anyone to see the raging storm inside because she wanted to belong, and since she couldn't control her inner world, she chose to control the image she projected.

Unfortunately, you can never feel really fulfilled unless your intimate accepts your authentic self, warts and all, so she was doomed to never feel authentically loved.

She was a real hard-ass as far as how high her walls were. I think what she "yearned" and "thirsted" for was someone to completely encapsulate her in their love and acceptance so she could safely pull down her walls and be introduced to and rebuild an authentic self. But, that accepting person was going to have to pass all the tests to see if they were worthy, first.

I think you're right, and this is very human , and not evil. I think we are dealing with a human being who escalated to the point of doing an evil act. And the door is opened to evil when there are high walls. But I don't think she just deliberately wanted to be an evil killer, at all. I can relate to so much about her - NOT the murder, but so much of the struggle with Travis prior to the murder. Had she controlled herself, not killed him, and moved on, and then written a book about what her struggle was like, I think many could relate. Fear and pain leads to lying to oneself. Then to others. Then becoming surreal and becoming capable of acting dangerously.

 

[OEJ]

I think you're right, and this is very human , and not evil. I think we are dealing with a human being who escalated to the point of doing an evil act. And the door is opened to evil when there are high walls. But I don't think she just deliberately wanted to be an evil killer, at all. I can relate to so much about her - NOT the murder, but so much of the struggle with Travis prior to the murder. Had she controlled herself, not killed him, and moved on, and then written a book about what her struggle was like, I think many could relate. Fear and pain leads to lying to oneself. Then to others. Then becoming surreal and becoming capable of acting dangerously.

Well, I'm talking on the pain and vulnerability side of Arias, here, but she is much more than this, I believe. We all have our decisions to make about what we will do or not do about our pain and vulnerabilities along the way.

For instance, based just on viewing Jodi's actions in the interrogation room, even if I didn't know she was being questioned about murder, I would never allow her in my life or home. She's comfortable with snooping and stealing, I believe. She's sneaky. This is her character. She gave permission to it. She has extreme predatory traits. These traits grew up with her, and she gave them permission over and over again throughout life.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

DB is downright creepy, imo. He lied for her. He loved her sex and that is about it. He tried to appear there were other things about her to look better to the public. He most likely has important info on her, as does Matt M. I think one or both of them have her papers, pics and various assorted stuff.

I am sure DB was lying when he talked about the Mormons visiting her early in the game as I think her mind went Mormon after she met Travis, not before.

I also think she used to do drugs...and suspect her and DB as dealing or doing them together. There is no way in Hello that she would be able to afford her half of a mortgage of $3600 a month. I don't see anything in his occupation that would allow for that either. She had a fancy car, breast implants, a $333,000 home? Come on now! As a part time waitress? Even two jobs couldn't support that. What were they thinking? He was working as a server when he moved 400 miles south to Rancho Mirage (near Palm
Springs).

He may have come into some money but we will never know...but I would like to know how they qualified for that house. Of course back then, people lied about their work, etc to get a house here. At some point he ran out of money and JA was never going to help him. His judgement is impaired, that is for sure, because if he really knew her, that was not going to happen. I think he is exaggerating the time he was with her along with most everything else. She bartered sex with him to get the goodies. Dollars to donuts he co-signed that Infinity for her...which got repossessed, as I recall. He was a fool.

I agree with you! DB has always freaked me out. And her constant check ins with DB and MM right before and after Travis's murder deeply disturbes me.

Only thing is, the Mormons coming to visit her at her home in Palm Desert, CA for "bible studies" was corroborated by a girl who rented a room in that house from Jodi at the time.

She described Jodi as a functioning psychopath who had sex at all hours of the day/night. Jodi wouldn't let this girl leave her room bc she didn't want her to disturb the "bible studies". This was around the time Jodi started at PPL and got her "rack done"

 

[SMK]

Well, I'm talking on the pain and vulnerability side of Arias, here, but she is much more than this, I believe. We all have our decisions to make about what we will do or not do about our pain and vulnerabilities along the way.

For instance, based just on viewing Jodi's actions in the interrogation room, even if I didn't know she was being questioned about murder, I would never allow her in my life or home. She's comfortable with snooping and stealing, I believe. She's sneaky. This is her character. She gave permission to it. She has extreme predatory traits. These traits grew up with her, and she gave them permission over and over again throughout life.

You make an excellent, excellent point here. It has been a real flaw in me (and has caused massive trouble in my life) that if I know someone has pain, I have to excuse them, even though they are doing things that I myself would NEVER dream of doing (had this with my 2 sisters---both were adulterers and liars re their professions, which I never was--felt I had to be kind and non-judgmental due to their pain, yet I had even more pain and did not act as they did.) You are right: JA's pain and what she was willing to become character-wise must be separated. Thank you for the important reminder.:seeya:

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I can't believe Darryl didn't have any odd incident he remembered in the four years he was supposedly with CMja. His interview I saw after testifying was bland. MOO, he's lying and hiding some aspect, some secret stuff, about their relationship.

He didn't even mention that time he had a fight with her, and she herself said she had a nervous break-down. Her idea of a nervous break-down is going to her room and hyperventilating, so perhaps Darryl didn't notice yet he was blamed for provoking it, but he is leaving out the important stuff he knows about her, and the remote, and their actual relationship. That's my take on Darryl.

Jodi mentioned that story about her hyperventilating after being questioned by DB. Interesting thing about that account is it is in context with detective Florez asking her if she had ever gotten angry with anyone to the point of wanting to hurt them. She also brings up the dog during this context.

Interesting thing about the DB "hyperventilation" story is that Jodi mentioned after she hyperventilated in her room she ran out to her car and that DB was trying to get the keys to his truck to box her car in. Funny how we find guns in her car... Maybe DB was worried she was going to get something out of her car? Like a weapon? So strange.

 

[OEJ]

You make an excellent, excellent point here. It has been a real flaw in me (and has caused massive trouble in my life) that if I know someone has pain, I have to excuse them, even though they are doing things that I myself would NEVER dream of doing (had this with my 2 sisters---both were adulterers and liars re their professions, which I never was--felt I had to be kind and non-judgmental due to their pain, yet I had even more pain and did not act as they did.) You are right: JA's pain and what she was willing to become character-wise must be separated. Thank you for the important reminder.:seeya:

You sweetheart, you. I was already trying to frame the most caring response I could for fear for you...lol. I'm the same way, and I have got to guard myself closely. When I first started trying to understand deviant psychology as a youngster, I thought these murderers, etc., were suffering compulsions so great they could not help themselves and just hated what they were doing.

I COULD have become an Arias all things considered, but I did not, and I will not. It was painful and frightening to get to where I am today, but by gosh, I did it with some integrity.

 

[SMK]

You sweetheart, you. I was already trying to frame the most caring response I could for fear for you...lol. I'm the same way, and I have got to guard myself closely. When I first started trying to understand deviant psychology as a youngster, I thought these murderers, etc., were suffering compulsions so great they could not help themselves and just hated what they were doing.

I COULD have become an Arias all things considered, but I did not, and I will not. It was painful and frightening to get to where I am today, but by gosh, I did it with some integrity.

:laugh:
Yes, you did, as did I: And we must remember that. I might have been more like Arias myself, and I guess I have myself to thank for not wanting to ever let my pain be the source of worse pain for others. Yes, integrity is a virtue.

 

[shelley921]

I think you're right, and this is very human , and not evil. I think we are dealing with a human being who escalated to the point of doing an evil act. And the door is opened to evil when there are high walls. But I don't think she just deliberately wanted to be an evil killer, at all. I can relate to so much about her - NOT the murder, but so much of the struggle with Travis prior to the murder. Had she controlled herself, not killed him, and moved on, and then written a book about what her struggle was like, I think many could relate. Fear and pain leads to lying to oneself. Then to others. Then becoming surreal and becoming capable of acting dangerously.

Yes there were so many things she could have done other than what she did. Worked on herself for the first thing. Instead of fixating on some guy that doesn't want you. how humiliating. I never experienced the rejection that Jodi did but then I never behaved in ways that would be grounds for being rejected. I can not imagine humiliating myself the way she did...for some guy...when women are young and attractive they have options. Her obsession just did not allow her to see other options....???

 

[SMK]

Yes there were so many things she could have done other than what she did. Worked on herself for the first thing. Instead of fixating on some guy that doesn't want you. how humiliating. I never experienced the rejection that Jodi did but then I never behaved in ways that would be grounds for being rejected. I can not imagine humiliating myself the way she did...for some guy...when women and young and attractive they have options. Her obsession just did not allow her to see other options....???

You would think so, as she was young and attractive. But inner emptiness and lack of authentic self-love lead one to obsess. And yes, she very much degraded herself, by driving TA away and then not accepting his need to move on.

 

[Curious Me]

Do you think there's any chance CMja may get put in a cushy hospital setting to delay her trial?

 

[SMK]

Do you think there's any chance CMja may get put in a cushy hospital setting to delay her trial?

I don't think so. And even if sent to the hospital, it would likely be state or prison affiliated.

 

[Curious Me]

I don't think so. And even if sent to the hospital, it would likely be state or prison affiliated.

Well, ya know how NG makes it sound. :lol:

She'll be in this luxury hospital with only twenty people to a floor drinking bottled water and being served gourmet meals. Doctors will beg her to tell her "spoon abuse stories".

 

[SMK]

Well, ya know how NG makes it sound. :lol:

She'll be in this luxury hospital with only twenty people to a floor drinking bottled water and being served gourmet meals. Doctors will beg her to tell her "spoon abuse stories".

Yeah, she did that with Casey Anthony, too: Said she was having gourmet seafood when it was Shrimp Cup O' Noodles.

 

[Night-owl]

<snip for space>

She was a real hard-ass as far as how high her walls were. I think what she "yearned" and "thirsted" for was someone to completely encapsulate her in their love and acceptance so she could safely pull down her walls and be introduced to and rebuild an authentic self. But, that accepting person was going to have to pass all the tests to see if they were worthy, first.

You're giving her a lot more credit than I am. I think she wanted that complete enclosing love without conditions... so she could behave as badly as she wanted with no risk of consequences. There is no amount of love that will "cure" her. It would be like dumping matter into a black hole. All the positive love and attention goes in, nothing ever comes back out. The ideal relationship for a psychopath is one where the other party is adoring, flattering and absolutely helpless to do anything the psychopath doesn't want them to do.

 

[OEJ]

You're giving her a lot more credit than I am. I think she wanted that complete enclosing love without conditions... so she could behave as badly as she wanted with no risk of consequences. There is no amount of love that will "cure" her. It would be like dumping matter into a black hole. All the positive love and attention goes in, nothing ever comes back out. The ideal relationship for a psychopath is one where the other party is adoring, flattering and absolutely helpless to do anything the psychopath doesn't want them to do.

Oh, I know. I was talking about the BPD side of her, though, which was the, "I can't live without you" "Your love will fix me" side. It's false, logically, since she had created the ideal Travis who could fully meet her needs and wants, and when he didn't, he was hated for it. No way out of that circular logic. People get tired of BPD's acting out their dramas and testing the boundaries of their love for them.

Psychopathy doesn't have this deep desire for love. It just doesn't care. It doesn't really need that flattery or adoring, either, but the NPD sure does.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think you're right, and this is very human , and not evil. I think we are dealing with a human being who escalated to the point of doing an evil act. And the door is opened to evil when there are high walls. But I don't think she just deliberately wanted to be an evil killer, at all. I can relate to so much about her - NOT the murder, but so much of the struggle with Travis prior to the murder. Had she controlled herself, not killed him, and moved on, and then written a book about what her struggle was like, I think many could relate. Fear and pain leads to lying to oneself. Then to others. Then becoming surreal and becoming capable of acting dangerously.

Not sure what her struggle was. All of her issues were self imposed as far as I can tell...and she never tried to get help. She was trying way too hard to fit in with a group of people with whom she didn't belong.

 

[human]

I do not know why a ton of posts were removed.

I still have a question I do not understand.

Jodi lived with a girl who rented from Jodi?

Where was this? In the house Jodi had with DB?

I am confused about that.