Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[shelley921]

But what to say or do to a friend that is in a horrible relationship?

how about educating people about avoiding problem people BEFORE they get involved with them? how about don't rush into getting involved - ?? - that way you may find out the person is"horrible" before you are enmeshed with them. how about don't have sex with someone before getting to know them a little bit ?

sex intensifies feelings and changes everything.

"Love seems the swiftest, but it is the slowest of all growths..."

wasn't it Mark Twain who wrote that? Young people confuse intensity and lust with love.

I think if "love" happens so quickly, you should enjoy it, but do nothing about it. Why? because it isn't really LOVE - it's enchantment or infatuation or lust. Love, as opposed to infatuation, is based on trust.
Trust takes time to develop- lots of it-!

I think we need to find a way to teach people how to slow down & recognize these "horrible" people early, rather than the current paradigm that depends heavily on trial and error. Why not figure out a way to educate ourselves and those who follow us about people to avoid and people to cherish...?..better to avoid problem people than have to extricate yourself from enmeshments with them.

 

[lil_buddy]

In my personal experience, I have never seen men resist sex but I would not go as far as to say we can't hold that against them. Who has said that? Everyone (all adults) is accountable for their own choices and actions, however difficult the temptation/manipulation may be.

moo

Men resist sex all the time.
It is not ethical for mental & physical health pros, teachers/professors, lawyers, etc. to engage in sexual behaviors with clients/students.
Of course, this rule is broken all the time, but I would venture to say the majority of these people do not break it.

Also, I have seen guys spurn girls... it happens.

Now the FWB thing post break-up... that's pretty hard to resist even for many chicks. If both parties are lonely and randy it's easy to have sex with someone you've already had sex. No dating, no dress up, no wooing, they've already seen you naked... easy.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Right, like JA could've been very convincing to TA with the old promises of her "three ring circus" sexual performances, the promise to give him the money she owes him, and then the final move of the threat that she'll kill herself if he doesn't see her/have sex with her. Maybe she said all this just prior to showing up at his house, or maybe she said it to TA once she was there....who knows?

But I will contend and admit that in my own personal experience with men that I've been in relationships with, no matter how ticked-off mad they were at me-----well, I've been successfully manipulative in that arena (disclaimer: in my younger days)!

And I would never blame them or hold it against them. I knew what I was doing. I knew my end goal and played it to the max for the results I wanted.

Truly, I am not that evil but I am being brutally honest. :seeya:

I could see JA being much more perservering and .........:banghead:

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

right...but by this time Jodi had slashed tires 3x, stolen, stalked and done a lot of other strange things that amounted to more than "emotional goobly-goo". and don't forget the may 24 phone call or texts in which Travis had called her a sociopath and told her she was the worst thing that had ever happened to him and he never wanted to see her again.....

don't you think we all have our limits ?

i just think that he had HAD IT with jodi. i think he did not know she was coming & that she entered his home without him knowing and surprised him. i'm sure SHE wanted to have sex but he refused. it's ok we do not have to agree - it's my opinion and you have yours. plenty agree with me and plenty agree with you.

Yes, i agree personally with some of what you and atasteofhoney said.

And you know, all I remember of sexualized photos before the ones of Travis in the shower is one picture taken of Travis while he wasn't even looking, while he's laying on the bed, and his arm is out as if he is in the middle of trying to shield himself or tell her to not take the picture. Then other pics are of Jodi only.

Why would he get upset with her for taking a picture?

Did he fear she was doing it to get a blackmail pic to send to his other live interests/friends?

Did she allow him to take the named pictures of her after that? Was she trying to regain back his trust and show him that if she could be vulnerable, he should trust her to take pics of him and be vulnerable, too?


It's not like they were taking nude pictures throughout their relationship. All we have are pics from that day (june 4) that are sexual/naked.

Furthermore the Sexual phone calls were only recorded a few weeks before Jodi killed him. At this time she had also texted Lisa back on Travis's phone that he was "with Jodi" and couldn't talk at the moment.

Not long after this Jodi leaves Mesa.

The text from Jodi via Travis's phone to Lisa really upset Travis.

This really upset Travis and this is around the time he sent Jodi the texts telling her what he "thought of her". Within a month Jodi would murder him.


Jodi's hard drive was destroyed on her computer.

I've wondered if she had blackmail pics/info on it or wanted to wipe away the search engine bc she had researched specifically how to kill him on her computer?

 

[lil_buddy]

Right, like JA could've been very convincing to TA with the old promises of her "three ring circus" sexual performances, the promise to give him the money she owes him, and then the final move of the threat that she'll kill herself if he doesn't see her/have sex with her. Maybe she said all this just prior to showing up at his house, or maybe she said it to TA once she was there....who knows?

But I will contend and admit that in my own personal experience with men that I've been in relationships with, no matter how ticked-off mad they were at me-----well, I've been successfully manipulative in that arena (disclaimer: in my younger days)!

And I would never blame them or hold it against them. I knew what I was doing. I knew my end goal and played it to the max for the results I wanted.

Truly, I am not that evil but I am being brutally honest. :seeya:

I could see JA being much more perservering and .........:banghead:

I imagine the CM was very contrite, saying stuff like...
"I'm SOOOO sorry for [blank].
I know it was wrong.
I'm going to apologize to everyone involved.
You were so right to be angry with me.
I was just so upset, I couldn't think straight.
I'll do whatever it takes to make it up to you.
Your trust means everything to me.
[Bible quote about forgiveness.]"

It is VERY hard to resist this sort of stuff if you are a halfway decent person and manipulators know this.

 

[SMK]

right...but by this time Jodi had slashed tires 3x, stolen, stalked and done a lot of other strange things that amounted to more than "emotional goobly-goo". and don't forget the may 24 phone call or texts in which Travis had called her a sociopath and told her she was the worst thing that had ever happened to him and he never wanted to see her again.....

don't you think we all have our limits ?

i just think that he had HAD IT with jodi. i think he did not know she was coming & that she entered his home without him knowing and surprised him. i'm sure SHE wanted to have sex but he refused. it's ok we do not have to agree - it's my opinion and you have yours. plenty agree with me and plenty agree with you.

I agree with you even though it earns me the anger of the Mods and the title of "crackpot theorist".

 

[lil_buddy]

Jon Ronson: Strange answers to the psychopath test - YouTube

We all are a little bit psychopathic


Above video is narrated by Jon Ronson who specializes in studying psychopaths. This speech is a witty illustration about a man who faked insanity to get out of prison/penalty. Unfortunately, he ended up faking so well that he was sent to Broadmoor Hospital. Hope you take the time to check it out!

(furthermore the makers of this video have a series called TED Talks which also features other speakers like Temple Grandin. Please check out the series as it is online and is on Netflix)

I heard this guy on NPR.

This is EXACTLY why I believe psychology has no place in the legal setting.
There is no such thing as objective observation in psychology.
It is all 100% based on self-reporting of the patient.

Thanks for that video.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I imagine the CM was very contrite, saying stuff like...
"I'm SOOOO sorry for [blank].
I know it was wrong.
I'm going to apologize to everyone involved.
You were so right to be angry with me.
I was just so upset, I couldn't think straight.
I'll do whatever it takes to make it up to you.
Your trust means everything to me.
[Bible quote about forgiveness.]"

It is VERY hard to resist this sort of stuff if you are a halfway decent person and manipulators know this.

ITA, lil buddy. I especially like that you threw in there the Bible quote which I feel she mastered (the Bible) to pull out of her steel-trap mind whenever it could suit her purpose. And her purpose was to manipulate. She had determined that TA was the grand prize--the one she wanted.
JA couldn't take the rejection, she couldn't take the abandonment, she couldn't move on 'cause there was just more of the nothingness/emptiness in her life.
To her, TA was her ticket out. Obviously, it is a flawed concept because there is no ticket out of her personality disordered mind without a lot of professional therapy work involved.

But TA was her chance, her dream of normalcy......

 

[human]

I have seen people glom onto someone and they do not want to let go for some reason. I am not bashing the victim. I just do not see TA as that big of a deal.

Ryan Burns was a lot better looking, for one.

But, if she wanted a ticket out, she could have struck it with numerous wealthy guys she would have met out in Monterey. Even Aileen W. had a super rich husband that just didn't do it for her.

I don't think JA was looking for money alone. She could have done much much better that way. And she could have had a nice rich girl life with some guy who would be happy to have a sexy young thing on his arm

 

[human]

I get the impression reading on here by older Mormon members that premarital sex is a huge no, no.

But it seems like TA and his roommates did not look at it the same way.

So I am guessing it is not the big no no it was in past. But I am only guessing on this. So the blackmail angle may not be such a big deal.

 

[SMK]

I have seen people glom onto someone and they do not want to let go for some reason. I am not bashing the victim. I just do not see TA as that big of a deal.

Ryan Burns was a lot better looking, for one.

But, if she wanted a ticket out, she could have struck it with numerous wealthy guys she would have met out in Monterey. Even Aileen W. had a super rich husband that just didn't do it for her.

I don't think JA was looking for money alone. She could have done much much better that way. And she could have had a nice rich girl life with some guy who would be happy to have a sexy young thing on his arm

I've always said all of this as well: Especially at age 28-30 and good looking; a ton of wealthy 50 somethings out there for her to snag. Many are divorced by that age and looking to "go younger". Shallow, but she could easily have swung it. I think the "obsession" with TA was because there was a co-dependant dynamic and he was like a twin, in a strange way. A reverse twin, if you will--- a mirror of her in many ways.

 

[lil_buddy]

Right, like JA could've been very convincing to TA with the old promises of her "three ring circus" sexual performances, the promise to give him the money she owes him, and then the final move of the threat that she'll kill herself if he doesn't see her/have sex with her. Maybe she said all this just prior to showing up at his house, or maybe she said it to TA once she was there....who knows?

But I will contend and admit that in my own personal experience with men that I've been in relationships with, no matter how ticked-off mad they were at me-----well, I've been successfully manipulative in that arena (disclaimer: in my younger days)!

And I would never blame them or hold it against them. I knew what I was doing. I knew my end goal and played it to the max for the results I wanted.

Truly, I am not that evil but I am being brutally honest. :seeya:

I could see JA being much more perservering and .........:banghead:

Is it manipulation if you didn't fake it?

 

[SMK]

I get the impression reading on here by older Mormon members that premarital sex is a huge no, no.

But it seems like TA and his roommates did not look at it the same way.

So I am guessing it is not the big no no it was in past. But I am only guessing on this. So the blackmail angle may not be such a big deal.

Yes, religions do evolve with the culture (for instance many Christians do not look down on divorce or gay relationships as both are now common, visible, and seen through enlightened eyes by most).

In your opinon, what did he mean by "you have scammed me" (I took it to mean "betrayed, blackmailed" as Travis was not always quick with the right word (from his blogging) - he seemed as frightened as angry. )

I felt he still did fear something being exposed, and then counter-threatened her.

 

[thefragile7393]

I get the impression reading on here by older Mormon members that premarital sex is a huge no, no.

But it seems like TA and his roommates did not look at it the same way.

So I am guessing it is not the big no no it was in past. But I am only guessing on this. So the blackmail angle may not be such a big deal.

Oh its still quite the big no-no. However it isn't necessarily the end of everything if it does happen...recalling Deanna Reid's testimony

Sent from my tSGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I have seen people glom onto someone and they do not want to let go for some reason. I am not bashing the victim. I just do not see TA as that big of a deal.

Ryan Burns was a lot better looking, for one.

But, if she wanted a ticket out, she could have struck it with numerous wealthy guys she would have met out in Monterey. Even Aileen W. had a super rich husband that just didn't do it for her.

I don't think JA was looking for money alone. She could have done much much better that way. And she could have had a nice rich girl life with some guy who would be happy to have a sexy young thing on his arm

My interpretation is this: JA knows in some ways that she is flawed, doesn't have a High School education, and probably feels unsophisticated, & insecure for a variety of reasons. She even made herself look like something she isn't with the bleached blonde hair and fake . For crying out loud, she didn't really have a decent place to call home. And she was in debt after her breakup with her last boyfriend due to mortgage woes.

She really may have believed that TA was so well respected, so very popular , likeable, and so highly regarded in his network. She was looking and found someone in TA that was more than just money---it was prestige and everything good. She may have thought that was a really big deal considering she was a loner.

And TA was making some pretty big bucks, nice house, nice cars, nice clothes. Guys earning six-figures (per TA's blog) don't grow on trees, "doncha' know"...ha!

Clearly TA was a big step up from all of her past boyfriends in so many ways. And JA always knew what she was......

 

[lil_buddy]

ITA, lil buddy. I especially like that you threw in there the Bible quote which I feel she mastered (the Bible) to pull out of her steel-trap mind whenever it could suit her purpose. And her purpose was to manipulate. She had determined that TA was the grand prize--the one she wanted.
JA couldn't take the rejection, she couldn't take the abandonment, she couldn't move on 'cause there was just more of the nothingness/emptiness in her life.
To her, TA was her ticket out. Obviously, it is a flawed concept because there is no ticket out of her personality disordered mind without a lot of professional therapy work involved.

But TA was her chance, her dream of normalcy......

She really dug him. She was attracted to him on every level it seems.

I can't even begin to imagine how she rationalized murdering him; it's probably so convoluted and demented we could guess for 1000 years and not hit on it.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I heard this guy on NPR.

This is EXACTLY why I believe psychology has no place in the legal setting.
There is no such thing as objective observation in psychology.
It is all 100% based on self-reporting of the patient.

Thanks for that video.

I don't agree fully that it doesn't have a place in the justice system, but to show you that I am considering your point of view and it interests me I will go as far to say that you are correct especially in the aspect of objective observation.

One could argue that psych is pure circumstancial theory and not even evidence and therefore has no place. I would agree with this.

The only place where I feel it IS significant is in trying to see where the defendant is psychologically during the process of the trial by using tests and analysis etc. But only testings administered during the course of the trial to specifically show the defendants mental state... Even then this is dicey. It is significant for investigators however to understand psychology to be able to profile/type their suspect in hopes that the profile will give clues to location and apprehension.

Any assumed infomation based on the defendants past and even at the time of the murder up until arrest is insufficient/insignificant during trial bc there is no concrete variable at which to test a persons personality in their past - all you have is heresay about their behavior/personality and that is not enough to prove psychological dysfunction/illness AT THE EXACT TIME OF THE CRIME.

 

[TorisMom003]

Sorry guys but I see Jodi rather different than some of you do. I don't believe that Jodi ever wanted to marry Travis or anyone for that matter. Jodi was simply a leach that used up the "host" until there was nothing left. If you look at the past boyfriends each one was useful to Jodi until she had used them up to the point of them having nothing left to give her. Daryl didn't have the money anymore that Jodi wanted and was even loosing the house. Jodi always moved upwards and never sideways or backwards. Travis still had plenty to offer. She had not yet drained his bank account, he still had his nice home and nice car. Travis also was a huge threat to Jodi's upward moving "lifestyle". Travis threatened to expose her for what she really was. How was that going to help her snag the next better guy in the Mormon church? Travis also had the nerve to take back his control. Travis was the one guy that dumped Jodi and would not bend to her wants anymore.

Jodi was never going to marry a man unless he was a multi millionaire with no living family members that was on deaths door with one foot in the grave and the other foot on a banana peel. And kids? Never going to happen for someone like Jodi. Not even to "trap" a guy with.

MOO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Interesting theory, TorisMom.

 

[lil_buddy]

I don't agree fully that it doesn't have a place in the justice system, but to show you that I am considering your point of view and it interests me I will go as far to say that you are correct especially in the aspect of objective observation.

One could argue that psych is pure circumstancial theory and not even evidence and therefore has no place. I would agree with this.

The only place where I feel it IS significant is in trying to see where the defendant is psychologically during the process of the trial by using tests and analysis etc.

Any assumed infomation based on the defendants past and even at the time of the murder up until arrest is insufficient/insignificant during trial bc there is no veritable at which to test a persons personality in their past - all you have is heresay about their behavior/personality and that is not enough to prove psychological dysfunction/illness.

I will say that I think if the defendant has a long history of psych problems, that should be known.

I personally have zero faith in forensic psych methods or any interpretations of psych testing/evaluation done once the defendant has been brought up on charges.

The fact that defense and prosecution can get psych pros up on the stand and give opposing opinions does not say anything good about the profession and it's standards. IMO!!!