Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[OEJ]

Good theory, OEJ.

I always had the thought that it had something to do with her hacking into his banking accounts or prostitution.

TA said he was going to tell everyone, including her parents.

How can we ever find out???

Hopefully, after sentencing more will come out through FOA's. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[SMK]

You just made that up---a "Proclivity Offender List", right?

I have never heard of anything like that......

NO, I did not make that up. I read it years ago, in a Philosophical Jurisprudence class. I most definitely did NOT "make it up":snooty:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

NO, I did not make that up. I read it years ago, in a Philosophical Jurisprudence class. I most definitely did NOT "make it up":snooty:

Well, I think that before there would be a "Proclivity List" for offenders, I think the Insurance Companies would pressure the legislature to give us a "Proclivity List" for Heart Disease, Diabetes, and other illnesses that show a hereditable characteristic AND that cost a lot of money which shrinks profit margins.

And that hasn't happened yet.

 

[SMK]

Hopefully, after sentencing more will come out through FOA's. Keep your fingers crossed.

Do you think it will? What are FOAs?

 

[SMK]

Well, I think that before there would be a "Proclivity List" for offenders, I think the Insurance Companies would pressure the legislature to give us a "Proclivity List" for Heart Disease, Diabetes, and other illnesses that show a hereditable characteristic AND that cost a lot of money which shrinks profit margins.

And that hasn't happened yet.

So people with a proclivity to these diseases wouldnt get hired, as too much of a risk? How is that good? Im afraid I don't understand.....

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

So people with a proclivity to these diseases wouldnt get hired, as too much of a risk? How is that good? Im afraid I don't understand.....

It isn't good but don't worry......it hasn't happened and won't.

 

[OEJ]

Do you think it will? What are FOAs?

I hope it will. FOA=Freedom of Information Act. That's how David Lohr got the full interrogation tapes for us.

 

[human]

And it went further than that where he was giving JA 24hrs to come clean and correct things or he was going to tell everyone.

He was giving her an ultimatum which is a scary thing to do to a BPD.

I wonder what it was exactly but it could have been the precipitant to what occurred later (which of course is in no way an excuse for murder).

What was it?

I really think that is what made her make her plans.

She was willing to move to CA. She still had a thing for him, but in time, she would have moved on, I feel. Otherwise, she would have stuck in the area.

But, the telling everyone meant he had to be stopped.

If she took money out of his accounts, was that ever revealed?

I would think that would be a police matter. He would have to stop all of his accounts to clean them up. Was there any info on that?

I so wonder what it is.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Yeah. So she gets a gig at prepaid legal, gets her rack done a month after, and then becomes interested in amormonosm and has Mormon men over for Bible studies only to seduce/have sex with them (according to a girl renting a room at Jodi's house at that time)...

She meets Travis at Starbucks where he introduces her to the Book of Mormon and she takes him and thanks him for his spiritual guidance by giving him a BJ.

She was in Vegas, where prostitution in legal, with all of her new prepaid legal buddies along with her two new boobies. She is Introduced to Travis by another male employee at prepaid. After she killed Travis she went on to another prepaid legal Mormon RB. And she even showed interest in Chris Hughes who is also Mormon and with PPL.

I felt like she was luring in the prepaid legal/Mormon guys With interest in Mormon bible studies and once she got them in the door she would seduce them, get evidence, and would later try to blackmail then for the sexual evidence in hopes to pay off her half of the mortgage.

Unfortunately she fell for Travis during the scheme and once he didn't want her she decided to kill him or possibly continue with her original plan to blackmail him.

Scam scam scam

IMHO

 

[thefragile7393]

I am not any closer to understanding why Jodi did what she did now, after hearing the shrinks testify, than before.

I mean I agree that DeMarte was clear/logical and her conclusions fascinating, but I just don't see the value of her testimony in the trial. I do not think it swayed anybody in the guilt/aggravation/sentencing phases.

Psychology helps people in a clinical setting, without question.

In a legal setting, it just put pennies in kettles. IMO

ETA - Psychology cannot predict behavior. There is no 'You experienced ABC, therefore you will behave in manners XYZ'
There are correlations but almost nothing that can directly seen to be causal-
like you're more likely to be an alcoholic if you had an alcoholic parent BUT that does not say that you will be an alcoholic or that you are likely in a total probability sense.

True, but it can explain behavior and actions.Predicting behavior isn't a part of testimony in court however and never has been. That part of your statement confuses me.For instance there is someone accused of accidentally shooting a loved one. "Defendent served time in X war and witnessed <insert atrocities>. When the defendant returned home they showed symptoms of hypersensitivity to certain noises and smells. They started waking up at night from dreams that consisted of xyz. This is consistent with PTSD. This is how someone develops PTSD, that is what living with PTSD does to a person." Over-simplifying very much but this explains, in this case, the person who did this has a diagnosis that may explain why they did what they did. The person that met with and examined them testifies to what they believe the person has, in their professional opinion, and explains in layman's terms what it can do to a person and how they may react to triggers. It isn't predicting behavior because the behavior has already happened.It's a possible clinical explanation.

Demarte's testimony gave me insight into what I suspected with JA...that she has an Axis II disorder. It explains a lot of her actions to me and why she acted and why she said certain things. No stats on me but (paraphrasing off the top if my head stuff I have read with no link to back it up) most people with Axis II diagnoses do not comit crimes but a great many of those who commit crimes have some sort of Axis II diagnosis. Depending on which one(s) is/are diagnosed it explains why they acted or.reacted the way they did. With JA, BPD explains the extreme reaction she had when Travis finally gave her the boot. It isn't a normal reaction. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml
(Everyone has seen this already likely)
Because I have worked with many people who have BPD it made perfect sense to me. It explains to me why she had the extreme reaction to kill him. Now granted, psychology can't explain why she CHOSE to act on that reaction, while others with BPD or other disorders do not. Psych can only explain so much. I dunno...that is what I got out of it.





Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm not so convinced about the money motivation thing either .. sure it was nice that Travis seemed to have a bit of security, but he was hardly rich .. I think something just clicked for her in regards to Travis .. she wanted HIM and would stop at nothing, the things she kept doing to try and secure that turned him against her and he was threatening to publicly take her down, which would result in widespread humiliation - especially coming from the man she'd been trying to manipulate just the opposite from. Even in the IM's to Ryan she was still trying to act like Travis was way more interested in her than he ever had been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_rage_and_narcissistic_injury

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yeah. So she gets a gig at prepaid legal, gets her rack done a month after, and then becomes interested in amormonosm and has Mormon men over for Bible studies only to seduce/have sex with them (according to a girl renting a room at Jodi's house at that time)...

She meets Travis at Starbucks where he introduces her to the Book of Mormon and she takes him and thanks him for his spiritual guidance by giving him a BJ.

She was in Vegas, where prostitution in legal, with all of her new prepaid legal buddies along with her two new boobies. She is Introduced to Travis by another male employee at prepaid. After she killed Travis she went on to another prepaid legal Mormon RB. And she even showed interest in Chris Hughes who is also Mormon and with PPL.

I felt like she was luring in the prepaid legal/Mormon guys With interest in Mormon bible studies and once she got them in the door she would seduce them, get evidence, and would later try to blackmail then for the sexual evidence in hopes to pay off her half of the mortgage.

Unfortunately she fell for Travis during the scheme and once he didn't want her she decided to kill him or possibly continue with her original plan to blackmail him.

Scam scam scam

IMHO

Love your expression above "gets her rack done"....:floorlaugh:

Seriously, I feel you have brought up some very good points.

 

[OEJ]

I'm not so convinced about the money motivation thing either .. sure it was nice that Travis seemed to have a bit of security, but he was hardly rich .. I think something just clicked for her in regards to Travis .. she wanted HIM and would stop at nothing, the things she kept doing to try and secure that turned him against her and he was threatening to publicly take her down, which would result in widespread humiliation - especially coming from the man she'd been trying to manipulate just the opposite from. Even in the IM's to Ryan she was still trying to act like Travis was way more interested in her than he ever had been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_rage_and_narcissistic_injury

I think it went even deeper than that. She wanted to assume his very identity since she didn't have one.

 

[human]

Reading the last couple of things that people here have said about BPD makes sense.

Funny, hoe many times I have read it on here, but Fragile and Taste have put it together for me.

My adopted niece was diagnosed with BPD. She was sexually and physically abused. She has a younger sister with FAS who is the one who decided at age 6 that they should run away. It does not seem like the younger one got abused . They are not sisters and were both adopted into the abusive family.

Anyway, my niece used to be a cutter. She could never be filled up. Nothing can or will bring her happiness. She does not think there is anything wrong with her. Whereas the younger FAS niece goes for all kinds of help.

I could never figure out why the older niece was not the one to want to leave. Now it is starting to make sense

 

[human]

And Mrs. Norris, the narcissism piece makes total sense as well.

I really feel it was the threat to herself that sealed it.

But what is it that she has done?

I do not buy the Mormon thing as it appears the young Mormons around Travis were busy with sex themselves. And we know she had no intentions of those pics she took going anywhere as she was NOT there that day.

It could be the picture taking thing was something they did a lot.

No one has her camera, do they?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think it went even deeper than that. She wanted to assume his very identity since she didn't have one.

That's interesting .. she does mirror him a LOT .. even now.

 

[OEJ]

That's interesting .. she does mirror him a LOT .. even now.

Look how she "became" Darryl Brewer's ex-wife.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Look how she "became" Darryl Brewer's ex-wife.

.. and Jennifer Wilmott, Bobby Juarez, etc .. So how do you think that would have effected her, in regards to the threat of exposure and the murder .. there is another question in all this, how would that whole experience have been like for Travis?

 

[human]

Could you repeat the question differently Mrs. I don't understand.

I don't know about you, but I think we are getting somewhere on here. It is making more and more sense.

The therapist told my sister that my niece (adopted by my sis and hubby after they were removed from the abusers, although my sis was never told the girls were abused. She discovered the cigarette burns on the older girl one day.), that she was a bottomless pit. Nothing would ever fulfill her.

She has no inner core and will become like anyone she chooses to be with. My niece is going through a religious phase right now. She is 33.

 

[cosmos]

My theory is based on transference. Since her state of denial is so utterly absolute, you can get your only clue as to her emotions by observing the negative emotions she transfers to others. What negative emotion do we see all the time around her in other people? Anger. And is there a particular type of anger that is most important to her. Yes. Anger with a strong component of self-hatred directed inward. Travis was perfect for her. He was hard to anger, and he was forgiving. Yet, at will, she could flip his anger on and off with the degree of intensity she desired. And Travis would tend to blame himself because he felt weak and victimized and helpless. Self-hatred for Travis. The endlessly repeating theme of their relationship. Victory for Jodi, she maintained her absolute denial always.

This still does not explain the murder for me. Did she transfer her anger to him completely and kill him trying to eliminate it forever? Psychobabble? :scared:

"Transference" is apparently the wrong word for what I'm describing. I don't know the right word or if there is one!