POLL: How Will This Case End?

[logicalgirl]

I've only seen one news media outlet mention that the Anthony's new lawyer was in court for the hearing and was sitting directly in front of them. And I think he may have been working with them to have them accept a plea.

One of the things that may have happened is this or these lawyers(since the A's apparently each have one) has come down pretty hard on them with what the facts are in this case.

Although I thought Brad was probably a basically nice guy, what I did not admire about him is he seemed to allow and encourage the behavior of both CA and GA and in fact made the situation worse. This new lawyer looks like a straight shooter - there were no comforting glances exchanged, no looks of agreed hostility, and I feel confident he has brought to their attention just how outrageous and damaging their past behavior has been.

Do I think CA was playing to the media? No, not for a moment. Do I think she fears what Ann Finnell will find in Ohio? Well, let's see - her grand daughter was brutally murdered, tossed off the side of the road like a piece of garbage, left to scavengers, and her daughter is clearly guilty of causing her death. Say what you will about CA, but she has lost everything she spent years trying to hold together. And her gift, what made it all worthwhile was brutally taken away from her by her own daughter. Are there any family skeletons worse than that? I don't think so, but then that's just me.

Where will this case end? I think CA and GA can see the ending.

 

[Frigga]

Very well said Logicalgirl... the thanks button just wasn't enough!

 

[Dignity4Victims]

Can the state still take this to trial even IF KC's Attorneys say that she will take a plea deal.?

Both the State and Defense have to agree on the specific, detailed terms of a plea deal prior to such being implemented.

That's one of the main reasons this will go to trial. In a DP case with the State setting such high stakes, I don't see them being satisfied with anything less than a Life sentence.

The Defense, on the other hand, isn't going to settle for Life on a plea, it's senseless considering the odds of the same sentence are likely in a roll of the dice with a Jury. IF they ever tried to bargain, it would be for less than this.

When you have such a large span between what will satiate each side, there is no middle ground to plea.

 

[krisskross]

I think its going to trial. And I think, despite the pre-trial bluff and bluster, from the noticeably shrunken dream team, its likely to be the most one sided trial in Florida history. Baez' bargaining power ended when they found Caylee's remains and apparently up till then he wouldn't or couldn't get his client to deviate from some version of the abduction story.

As others here have stated, at this stage, the only deal likely to be entertained by the State is LWOP with the caveat that she tell all in front of the Judge and the prosecuting attorneys. Given this girl's history, that would probably have to be done under polygraph conditions. :liar:

Bottom line... any plea deal would have to be agreed to by Casey and I just don't think she would view LWOP as a concession. I also do not believe she has ever admitted to Baez, any culpability in Caylee's death. JMO

She reminds me of Diane Downs who was diagnosed as a deviant narcisistic sociopath and who despite having elligibility for parole has never in 27 years deviated from the bushy haired stranger.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Well stated KrissKross and :Welcome-12-june:

ICA has been trying to allude to a conspiracy surrounding herself yet, she did this herself by not being truthful from the start. One lie after another after another and still lying, IMO...she will not accept responsiblity for her actions, it's always someone elses fault. Not this time, this time the fine state prosecutors will have her take responsibility of her actions and whether he accepts it or not will determine if she does time or time does her...I'd like to believe she would be mature enough to see the evidence points to her and only her but she is delusional and lives that fantasy world life..to bad, other options were available and she took murder as the one option to have a better life, quite ironic to me...JMHO

Justice for Caylee is a trial away...I await that babys justice..JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[debbie0604]

I think it's going to trial. KC is going to take it all the way and JB is going to "play" it all the way, IMO.

Also, JMO, I didn't know that one could plead 'nolo contendre' on a first degree murder charge, I thought it was either 'guilty' or 'not guilty with reasons of insanity', 'mental illness' etc...??? I'm a little confused. :waitasec:

 

[faefrost]

I still think she will plea at the absolute last minute. At heart KC is a coward. She stretches her stories as far as she can and then at the last minute, when absolutely confronted with the truth switches to the next scheme and story. A plea deal will simply be her next scheme. But it will not happen until the final minutes. Either right before the start of trial or as the jury leaves the courtroom to deliberate. The only thing that will make her do this is the DP. prior to the DP being on the table she would have had no reason not to roll the dice on a full trial and jury decision. There is little difference between 10-20 years and LWOP for someone completely narcissistic who only lives in the hear and now and rarely thinks more than 10 minutes ahead.

The best predictor of what will happen, look at her LE interview at Universal. She takes it up to the very edge, then flips. That's what will happen here. The only thing that might have her backing off of a plea deal is that it eliminates any channels of appeal. So it blocks her from flipping to yet a third story of lies.

 

[logicalgirl]

I still think she will plea at the absolute last minute. At heart KC is a coward. She stretches her stories as far as she can and then at the last minute, when absolutely confronted with the truth switches to the next scheme and story. A plea deal will simply be her next scheme. But it will not happen until the final minutes. Either right before the start of trial or as the jury leaves the courtroom to deliberate. The only thing that will make her do this is the DP. prior to the DP being on the table she would have had no reason not to roll the dice on a full trial and jury decision. There is little difference between 10-20 years and LWOP for someone completely narcissistic who only lives in the hear and now and rarely thinks more than 10 minutes ahead.

The best predictor of what will happen, look at her LE interview at Universal. She takes it up to the very edge, then flips. That's what will happen here. The only thing that might have her backing off of a plea deal is that it eliminates any channels of appeal. So it blocks her from flipping to yet a third story of lies.

Yes, thank you Faefrost - I agree - and also in the cheque fraud trial. Would like to know if you think this is her best move?

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

IMO, IT WILL NOT END, IT WILL GET TOSSED OUT PER INEFFECTIVE COUNSEL AND WE WILL START ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH. At least ICA will be in limbo land for another few years. MOO

The only thing that makes me think this would not happen is because she has had some of the most prized legal eagles in the country on her case. It would be pretty impossible to prove with all of them. With JB alone it might have worked. You hear of drunk lawyers, ones that sleep the trial away and that does not even get a case over turned.

 

[faefrost]

IMO, IT WILL NOT END, IT WILL GET TOSSED OUT PER INEFFECTIVE COUNSEL AND WE WILL START ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH. At least ICA will be in limbo land for another few years. MOO

If you go back and watch the action sof both HHJS and HHJP very carefully from the beginning you will see that from very very early on they have laid the groundwork to block or prevent any appeal based on ineffective council. The requirements that KC be present at all of the hearings was point blank so she could observe her attorneys in action and make an informed decision as to their effectiveness and competency.

KC has had full access to a wide swath of highly skilled highly respected legal advisors of her own choosing. She has had a celebrated dream team from across the nation. She has had far above the norm for a typical defendant in her situation. remember ALL of her attorneys are of her own choosing. None have been assigned to her by the courts. Even after she was declared indigent she retained and continues to hire and retain private council and is not utilizing publicly provided defenders. This makes a huge difference in an ineffective council argument. A defendant has the right to hire and use council of their choosing, and in so doing has the right to willfully make informed bad choices. She can hire a moron. The judges took every step to make sure she realized she was hiring a moron, and double checked that she was sure that this is what she wished. They took steps to insure that she was informed and protected at every step. The courts however have no obligation to shield her from her willful bad choices. Nor will those bad choices mitigate her guilt at trial.

In order to prove ineffective council or lay such a claim she would essentially have to argue that JB and CM were not working diligently on her case. Things like they filed no motions, spent no time on it, and just went through the playacting of defending her. However we know this to very clearly not be the case. They have filed tons of motions. They may be bad motions. They may use poorly referenced case law. But that is the judgement of the employer (KC) to make, not the courts. Overall the standards for an ineffective council claim are unbelievably high to meet. A lawyer asleep during trial is a good example. Simply being a bad lawyer is not enough. The client can opt to select hire or fire a bad lawyer. Just because we think that JB is an idiot does not mean it rises to the standards of an appealable issue.

About the only faint area where she may have some slight hope of challenging her lawyers effectiveness could be in the financials. If it could be proven that some gross fraud went on with the money (note not just mismanagement or porr use of funds. Actual FRAUD) then she might have a case against them. But even then remember that any financials would have had to pass muster through how many respected lawyers now? JB, CM, AL, LKB, AF, etc etc etc. I think we are up to what 10 lawyers in all so far? all of them with money questions and a legal binding responsibility to raise attention to any observed malfeasance?

So yeah she will be convicted (or plea and then seek to reverse the plea with a new lawyer) make this claim using a new legal team, and be shot down in 1 hearing, essentially dismissed out of hand.

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

If you go back and watch the action sof both HHJS and HHJP very carefully from the beginning you will see that from very very early on they have laid the groundwork to block or prevent any appeal based on ineffective council. The requirements that KC be present at all of the hearings was point blank so she could observe her attorneys in action and make an informed decision as to their effectiveness and competency.

KC has had full access to a wide swath of highly skilled highly respected legal advisors of her own choosing. She has had a celebrated dream team from across the nation. She has had far above the norm for a typical defendant in her situation. remember ALL of her attorneys are of her own choosing. None have been assigned to her by the courts. Even after she was declared indigent she retained and continues to hire and retain private council and is not utilizing publicly provided defenders. This makes a huge difference in an ineffective council argument. A defendant has the right to hire and use council of their choosing, and in so doing has the right to willfully make informed bad choices. She can hire a moron. The judges took every step to make sure she realized she was hiring a moron, and double checked that she was sure that this is what she wished. They took steps to insure that she was informed and protected at every step. The courts however have no obligation to shield her from her willful bad choices. Nor will those bad choices mitigate her guilt at trial.

In order to prove ineffective council or lay such a claim she would essentially have to argue that JB and CM were not working diligently on her case. Things like they filed no motions, spent no time on it, and just went through the playacting of defending her. However we know this to very clearly not be the case. They have filed tons of motions. They may be bad motions. They may use poorly referenced case law. But that is the judgement of the employer (KC) to make, not the courts. Overall the standards for an ineffective council claim are unbelievably high to meet. A lawyer asleep during trial is a good example. Simply being a bad lawyer is not enough. The client can opt to select hire or fire a bad lawyer. Just because we think that JB is an idiot does not mean it rises to the standards of an appealable issue.

About the only faint area where she may have some slight hope of challenging her lawyers effectiveness could be in the financials. If it could be proven that some gross fraud went on with the money (note not just mismanagement or porr use of funds. Actual FRAUD) then she might have a case against them. But even then remember that any financials would have had to pass muster through how many respected lawyers now? JB, CM, AL, LKB, AF, etc etc etc. I think we are up to what 10 lawyers in all so far? all of them with money questions and a legal binding responsibility to raise attention to any observed malfeasance?

So yeah she will be convicted (or plea and then seek to reverse the plea with a new lawyer) make this claim using a new legal team, and be shot down in 1 hearing, essentially dismissed out of hand.

I love how you call them as you see them. Thank you! Didn't the attorney I believe his name was Ammador for Margaret Rudin from Nevada admit to being high on drugs? This did not even get that case tossed while the trial was going on. They just handed it to his partner.

 

[ZsaZsa]

In one of GA's first interviews, he said (paraphrasing) My daughter is the kind of person who will take everything as far as it possibly can go- and then - she will push it further.
Only a moron would walk all the way down a hall with Police,to a non existent office before facing facts- she will do the same with her trial, I am sure.

 

[chefmom]

In one of GA's first interviews, he said (paraphrasing) My daughter is the kind of person who will take everything as far as it possibly can go- and then - she will push it further.
Only a moron would walk all the way down a hall with Police,to a non existent office before facing facts- she will do the same with her trial, I am sure.

ITA! I will be disappointed, however, if the SA takes anything less than LWOP. I personally hope they go to trial and win and KC gets the DP.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I don't think she can plea out at will - I think the SA has to agree and so does the judge.

 

[faefrost]

I don't think she can plea out at will - I think the SA has to agree and so does the judge.

She can change her plea at will. However without a specific plea agreement in hand with the SA she is simply essentially throwing herself on the mercy of the court. So if she chose to plead guilty then she would still face the sentencing phase of the trial. And the state could and probably would still seek the DP. (see the Brian Nichols Atlanta courthouse shootings trial for an example of this).

I am curious what would happen if she were to plead guilty to the lesser charges? I assume that the state would still seek trial for the max charge? or the judge would not allow the plea unless it was to the highest charge, without SA sign off?

 

[Intermezzo]

In one of GA's first interviews, he said (paraphrasing) My daughter is the kind of person who will take everything as far as it possibly can go- and then - she will push it further.
Only a moron would walk all the way down a hall with Police,to a non existent office before facing facts- she will do the same with her trial, I am sure.

bbm

That got me thinking and remembering that,IIRC, during that LE interview John Allen asked Casey if she attend school and she replied Yes, she was a student at Valencia College and had been for about 1.5 years ...the girl lies just to lie...

Not only did she not attend Valencia she never registered to attend Valencia.(according to Valencia college)

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

bbm

That got me thinking and remembering that,IIRC, during that LE interview John Allen asked Casey if she attend school and she replied Yes, she was a student at Valencia College and had been for about 1.5 years ...the girl lies just to lie...

Not only did she not attend Valencia she never registered to attend Valencia.(according to Valencia college)

I guess she thinks the rest of the world is like C&G they will never question or check on anything she says. I think she has found out the hard way and will more so during the trial everyone has her number now.

It will be interesting to see what her "friends" have to say about the MOTY when they are on the stand. That will be a great time for Dr. Glass to see how she reacts with her digging her eyes out, fist and facial expressions.

 

[uvamerica]

I can not see baez, going for a plea deal. He wants to go to trial to make a name for himself. I remember him saying in the start of all this (this is the biggest case he has had as a hispanic lawyer) I really dont think baez cares about KC or her family, he's thinking of himself, and all the publicity he will get. As far as the 'family secrets' those are already out there. I believe the lawyers that left the defense team saw the writing on the wall so to speak. I believe that Baez would not listen to them (he thinks he has a chance to win this case with the old smoke and mirror trick constantly whining, screaming foul at every turn:loser I personally want to see this go to trial, after all the lies told, it will be very interesting to see CA,GA and LA up on that stand trying to defend KC. I am interested to see how they act. Or if they do the same thing they did in the Zanny hearing(act like complete assholes). If that is whats coming they sure wont be getting any sympathy from anybody with a brain. I do feel sorry for the Anthony's but their conduct is so inappropriate its hard. No I have never been in their shoes, but I can say I would not act as they do. I really think if KC gets the DP, we are going to see either or both CA and GA lose it. Hopefully for them Lee will get married and have a child so that his parents will have something to look forward to instead of living in the past with KC. CA and Ga really loved Caylee and did not deserve what their daughter has put them through,(even though they may be partially responsible for their daughters actions) they did not deserve this.

 

[chefmom]

I can not see baez, going for a plea deal. He wants to go to trial to make a name for himself. I remember him saying in the start of all this (this is the biggest case he has had as a hispanic lawyer) I really dont think baez cares about KC or her family, he's thinking of himself, and all the publicity he will get. As far as the 'family secrets' those are already out there. I believe the lawyers that left the defense team saw the writing on the wall so to speak. I believe that Baez would not listen to them (he thinks he has a chance to win this case with the old smoke and mirror trick constantly whining, screaming foul at every turn:loser I personally want to see this go to trial, after all the lies told, it will be very interesting to see CA,GA and LA up on that stand trying to defend KC. I am interested to see how they act. Or if they do the same thing they did in the Zanny hearing(act like complete assholes). If that is whats coming they sure wont be getting any sympathy from anybody with a brain. I do feel sorry for the Anthony's but their conduct is so inappropriate its hard. No I have never been in their shoes, but I can say I would not act as they do. I really think if KC gets the DP, we are going to see either or both CA and GA lose it. Hopefully for them Lee will get married and have a child so that his parents will have something to look forward to instead of living in the past with KC. CA and Ga really loved Caylee and did not deserve what their daughter has put them through,(even though they may be partially responsible for their daughters actions) they did not deserve this.

Lol! That ain't no act! :dance: JMO

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

I would advise the whole family not to act up to much. HHJP does not strike me as the type at letting his courtroom become a stage to be playing to the jury. MOO If the theatrics start with the A's they will be told to knock the crap off and now. I cannot wait for LDB to question CA seeing her try to interrupt and argue back with her. I think we will hear answer the question CA a lot. lol For once CA will find someone else in charge and not being able to do one thing about it.