Poll: Was Shannan Gilbert Murdered?

[hawkshaw]

I would feel much better if the jurors were picked by a lottery. You, you, you, and you are it. Provide transportation and parking. Period! No stipend for doing your civic duty. Then see how many are willing to do their 'civic' duty.

The whole purpose of picking a jury is to find the people that are going to vote for your side.

The jury should have an opportunity to ask questions of the witnesses. In some states they do just that and it is said the jury asks better questions than the lawyers.

Jury of your peers - Please don't make me laugh while I am having my coffee.

Stupid and feckless appellate judges love that one when it comes time to really look at a jury verdict.

Yes, it works just fine AS LONG AS IT ISN'T YOU GOING TO JAIL.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I go back and forth, ad nauseum, on whether or not I believe Shannan was murdered.

I can see how she might have been high and/or hysterical and run into the marsh. I can see how she might well have od'ed out there, or drown. What I can't get past is the fact that, of all the bones she could have been missing due to animal predation, why the hyoid bone? Animals (unless they are human animals) just aren't that picky. Other things that bother me:

1. The location of her belongings being so far from her body. It's almost as if someone dumped her body off Ocean Pkwy, and then dumped her belongings some time later as an afterthought (oops! Forgot these!). Or perhaps, kept them on purpose for a time. Don't know that for a fact, of course, just saying it strikes me as a possibility.

2. She did run from Brewer's house screaming, "they're trying to kill me!". She did call 911. She did run to neighbors for help. Now, someone who was impaired and hysterical might very well act irrationally and have irrational thoughts, but she did end up dead in the end. That's one whopper of a coincidence, imo.

3. We have the phone call from CPH to Mari on May 3. That's not speculation, that's a fact. What was actually said in that phone call is a matter of he said, she said. BUT, according to Mari, Hackett claimed he treated Shannan in his halfway house and then released her into the care of her driver. If this recollection of Mari's is correct it speaks volumes. How would Hackett know Shannan was on drugs? How would he know she even HAD a driver? And why did he first lie about calling Mari at all, then reverse himself, claim he did call Mari on the 6th (at the urging of Pak and Diaz), and then later it's discovered that he called Mari on his wife's cell phone on May 3...before a missing person report had ever even been filed?

4. And then, coincidence of all coincidences, Shannan's belongings turn up in the marsh behind Hackett's house. And her body turns up just steps from Ocean Parkway (like our other 4 victims!), and her intact skeleton is missing the one bone that would prove she'd been strangled. And who the heck might know something like this? A doctor, maybe?!

5. And then we have Hackett inquiring about vector control coming out and working on those drainage ditches behind his house. The very area where Shannan's body, and belongings, are found.

I'm reasonably opened minded, but I'm not SO open minded that I allow my brain to fall out. Things start to add up on one side or the other, and the scales start to tip. Just sayin'.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

:welcome:

You'll have to forgive us if we seem a bit testy, 2Hip. Most of us LISK posters have been researching this case for years and are just incredibly frustrated at the lack of progress in bringing justice for our girls.

If you have questions, or can't find info you're looking for, please feel free to ask and we'll be happy to help point you in the right direction.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

:welcome:

You'll have to forgive us if we seem a bit testy, 2Hip. Most of us LISK posters have been researching this case for years and are just incredibly frustrated at the lack of progress in bringing justice for our girls.

If you have questions, or can't find info you're looking for, please feel free to ask and we'll be happy to help point you in the right direction.

Ok here's my big question: where did I say anywhere that I did not have frustration over how this specific investigation into SG's death has been conducted?

Did I say anywhere that I agree 100% with how the criminal
Justice system is run in Suffolk in regard to this case? No!

All I said was in law enforcement there is no such thing as a coincidence. Meaning that it's not coincidence that her body was found so close to that burial site and was connected to similar lifestyle (Craigslist) as the others.

Yes something is Rotten in Denmark here. Yes something seems to be "conveniently" missing in the equation of her death.

Ok I can breath now.

 

[hawkshaw]

2HIP - The jury system is supposed to be one of the last places where the innocent can hope to get justice. Trust me it doesn't happen. I helped put a lot of those people sitting on the defense table sitting where they are. And so I have no compunctions of putting people in jail if I think they deserve it. BUT sitting on a jury with the ultimate power to put such a person in jail and knowing I most likely will NOT hear ALL of the evidence is just too high a responsibility I can endure.

My last appearance in a court room I was dismissed by the attorneys to participate in a criminal trial. I suspect it was the defense as I am a retired NYPD detective. For all I know it could have been the prosecution.

I was sent back to the Central Jury room with others that were dismissed by me. I heard a fellow dismissed juror tell me he would be inclined to believe anything a police officer testified to at trial. I asked him how he could say that when he is supposed to weigh the evidence and only the evidence, be it from the defense, the DA, or a police officer. He looked at me with a stunned look on his face. I asked him didn't you hear me say I was a former Homicide detective? Why do you think I just asked you that?

If the jury gets it wrong and if the defendant has the means to appeal then the appellate courts are supposed to take up the slack and see that justice is done. In less than 5% of the cases the appellate courts affirm the convictions. Do you believe that is even mathematically possible?

I know of one lawyer that reads the appeals and offer his opinion to the court as to what the law and facts are. I know for a fact that he was told by his supervisor who gave him the case to review that his report was to affirm the conviction by a concoction of nonsense. He refused to do so because the facts were so outlandish that his conscience forbid him to do so. The case was reversed for good cause.

The Appellate Courts are ruled by a quota system just like the police have a ticket writing and stop and frisk quota to maintain, a damned the truth.

The Courts can't allow the truth to come out because if they did so the entire Jury System we rely on for justice will be destroyed.

I subscribe to the old adage" It is better to let 99% guilty to go free than to allow one innocent person to go to jail.

 

[LINative13]

Back to topic. Yay.
I'm in the air. 50-50.
If evidence is shown that proves accidental death or murder.....I wouldn't be surprised either way.

The whole fluke-Hackett thing has actually sparked my interest.

 

[LINative13]

If you thought I needed a SPOT device if I went on your boat I don't want to go on your boat.

Accidents happen. I'd rather you have a spot than not. I'd question your self preservation desire for not wanting one.

 

[LINative13]

limbs can be tricky...they can quickly crack and crash to the ground...perhaps you meant you PROBABLY or MIGHT have more experience....but at least you are courteous and provide a SPOT device to your companions...

No. This one is rock solid.

 

[deedee21]

Varrone said SG belongings in one place and her body in another is CONSISTANT with her running along and losing her items along the way. Then she got tired and died. Seasoned Det. Vernon Geberth said her items and jeans found in one area and her body in another is CONSISTANT with dumping her body in one area and disposing evidence in another. Who do you believe? I believe VG

 

[LINative13]

It would've been easier to put her body there from the parkway than from the south side.

 

[twocuriouscats]

"Mr Petrocelli, 54, remained where he was for between 10 and 20 minutes and when he finally heard screaming he frantically threw 10 lifejackets into the water.

He alerted the Coast Guard in Montauk, New York, but his wife’s body was pulled out of the water 12 hours later."





Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fe-drowning-just-feet-away.html#ixzz2bsdduIYw

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:scared:



This guy has a place in Manhattan. (all those calls made from Manhattan area to the victims relatives...)

He is the heir to an electric company.


His construction business is located in Palisades Park NJ.

His best childhood friend is the CFO and manager of the construction biz. It was this business partners boat that the victim was thrown from.


I hate money and evil!

Hi 2hip,

Thanks for that tidbit...I missed the news of her death. Very interesting imo. Did anybody else get a jolt when reading the "Petrocelli" name? I remembered it in association with a certain Aquarium owner...another coinkidink? Wrong brother (maybe) but same family(apparently). Remember this:

http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/12/15/long-island-aquarium-owner-james-bissett-found-dead/

 

[deedee21]

Hi 2hip,

Thanks for that tidbit...I missed the news of her death. Very interesting imo. Did anybody else get a jolt when reading the "Petrocelli" name? I remembered it in association with a certain Aquarium owner...another coinkidink? Wrong brother (maybe) but same family(apparently). Remember this:

http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/12/15/long-island-aquarium-owner-james-bissett-found-dead/

MB resembles a couple of her pictures.

 

[fred&edna]

The fear factor can make someone panic and drown. But this is a lady that jumps out of planes. For that reason I would remove fear from the equation and assume the will to live and her athletic ability would allow her to hang on and wait for help in the CALM waters.

I thought this drowning was being investigated (including a tox report). It's been 3 months since Mrs. P's death so I assumed there would be some news. Any locals have info??

Also...

The boat was anchored 2-1/2 miles off Montauk when she fell over the stern. Just after midnight the husband reported her missing and the US Coast Guard immediately conducted a thorough search of the area... but found nothing. Approximately 12 hours later a good samaritan boater found her body just 3 miles southeast of Montauk.
(Per the info found here: http://easthampton.patch.com/groups/...-investigating)

I don't know anything about boating, but it seems strange the US Coast Guard didn't find her. Did they not widen the search at least a mile in all directions?




Interesting connective dots:

The husband (and his family) sure have a lot of businesses/partnerships (construction, electrical and communications are the obvious big ones). The communication company has several locations including 3 Times Square; and the electrical company has an Egg Harbor Township address less than 5 miles from Golden Key Motel. However, it is a large family with many big businesses and many connections.... so maybe the dots are meaningless.

 

[sleuthinforfun]

I go back and forth, ad nauseum, on whether or not I believe Shannan was murdered.

I can see how she might have been high and/or hysterical and run into the marsh. I can see how she might well have od'ed out there, or drown. What I can't get past is the fact that, of all the bones she could have been missing due to animal predation, why the hyoid bone? Animals (unless they are human animals) just aren't that picky. Other things that bother me:

1. The location of her belongings being so far from her body. It's almost as if someone dumped her body off Ocean Pkwy, and then dumped her belongings some time later as an afterthought (oops! Forgot these!). Or perhaps, kept them on purpose for a time. Don't know that for a fact, of course, just saying it strikes me as a possibility.

2. She did run from Brewer's house screaming, "they're trying to kill me!". She did call 911. She did run to neighbors for help. Now, someone who was impaired and hysterical might very well act irrationally and have irrational thoughts, but she did end up dead in the end. That's one whopper of a coincidence, imo.

3. We have the phone call from CPH to Mari on May 3. That's not speculation, that's a fact. What was actually said in that phone call is a matter of he said, she said. BUT, according to Mari, Hackett claimed he treated Shannan in his halfway house and then released her into the care of her driver. If this recollection of Mari's is correct it speaks volumes. How would Hackett know Shannan was on drugs? How would he know she even HAD a driver? And why did he first lie about calling Mari at all, then reverse himself, claim he did call Mari on the 6th (at the urging of Pak and Diaz), and then later it's discovered that he called Mari on his wife's cell phone on May 3...before a missing person report had ever even been filed?

4. And then, coincidence of all coincidences, Shannan's belongings turn up in the marsh behind Hackett's house. And her body turns up just steps from Ocean Parkway (like our other 4 victims!), and her intact skeleton is missing the one bone that would prove she'd been strangled. And who the heck might know something like this? A doctor, maybe?!

5. And then we have Hackett inquiring about vector control coming out and working on those drainage ditches behind his house. The very area where Shannan's body, and belongings, are found.

I'm reasonably opened minded, but I'm not SO open minded that I allow my brain to fall out. Things start to add up on one side or the other, and the scales start to tip. Just sayin'.

You sum things up quite nicely in my mind with this post.

I would also add, if she was in a state of panic, why did she run past the gate and toward CPH's house (this is according to where her belongings were found, and BB seeing her last)? Had she known prior to that 911 call that he was a doctor and was running for help? She didn't drive to any location, so it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to assume she wasn't entirely sure where she was going.

 

[hawkshaw]

MK - SG was not hysterical before and when she made that phone call. We had a SCPD detective who told us that when he said he heard the phone call. We have that same PD he worked for not releasing the tape of the call, and this fellow was nice enough to give us the real skinny. Whatta Guy!

That same de. tective retired from the PD with an open homicide on his sheet. That homicide was committed on 9/24/03. One of the main suspects in that murder just happened to be the neighbor of the now Chief of Department James Burke.

Now this fellow who was Burke's neighbor was brought back from Florida on 10/23/03. He would later plead out to 38 violent felonies. Several of them were A2 Felonies. He would never spend a day in jail. Not only that, but he was the chief suspect in TWO homicides that have not yet been solved.

This fellow was given 5 years probation for his 'truthful' testimony. Spota even allowed him to go back to Florida and have his probation administered there. Heck, the guy had a big money making scam working down there = he owned several mortgage and related companies to further his stealing.

 

[LINative13]

MK - SG was not hysterical before and when she made that phone call. We had a SCPD detective who told us that when he said he heard the phone call. We have that same PD he worked for not releasing the tape of the call, and this fellow was nice enough to give us the real skinny. Whatta Guy!

That same de. tective retired from the PD with an open homicide on his sheet. That homicide was committed on 9/24/03. One of the main suspects in that murder just happened to be the neighbor of the now Chief of Department James Burke.

Now this fellow who was Burke's neighbor was brought back from Florida on 10/23/03. He would later plead out to 38 violent felonies. Several of them were A2 Felonies. He would never spend a day in jail. Not only that, but he was the chief suspect in TWO homicides that have not yet been solved.

This fellow was given 5 years probation for his 'truthful' testimony. Spota even allowed him to go back to Florida and have his probation administered there. Heck, the guy had a big money making scam working down there = he owned several mortgage and related companies to further his stealing.

Oh that James Burke....solving 38 felonys. He's the true hero.

 

[hawkshaw]

Oh that James Burke....solving 38 felonys. He's the true hero.

Hey, native, I think Jimmy could solve a lot more felonies if he came clean. somewhere in the hundreds.

 

[LINative13]

Hey hawkster, I believe you are correct. Btw, I hope you and your family had a nice christmasnand I wish you the best of everything life has to offer in 2014.

 

[hawkshaw]

Hey hawkster, I believe you are correct. Btw, I hope you and your family had a nice christmasnand I wish you the best of everything life has to offer in 2014.

THE same to you, LIN.

I wonder how the BIG CASE is going. Don't you think the detectives should take a look at what Jimmy was doing with hookers back in the day? Don't you think it should be important to investigators that one of their own was boffing hookers in a police car? And let me tell you is if WE know that how much don't we know?

Has anyone heard about Brooklyn about 5 years ago? It is easier to get away with things when your pal is the DA.

 

[LISleuth]

Don't you think the detectives should take a look at what Jimmy was doing with hookers back in the day? Don't you think it should be important to investigators that one of their own was boffing hookers in a police car?

Knew a cop in NCPD 1st Pct & a Freeport cop. Both told me stories about how it was common practice to take on extra curricular activities in the cop cars with gf, wives & others. It's not new news. Not saying it should be ignored but who's going to do anything about it when it's being going on for decades? Just saying...