Pontiac: The odor, sealing off & processing the car #2

[BeanE]

IMO this is fairly big error that I hope will not have much impact on evidence.

Now if I could only find the Brittany Shieber news interview video where she says the morning of 7/16 she looked across the street and saw GA and CA in the driveway with the car with the trunk open and they were cleaning out the trunk of the car...

 

[JBean]

Now if I could only find the Brittany Shieber news interview video where she says the morning of 7/16 she looked across the street and saw GA and CA in the driveway with the car with the trunk open and they were cleaning out the trunk of the car...

Holy Crikey! That would have to be after the police and investigators arrived because they were there at 9:41pm on the 15 and Yuri at 3:30 am on the 16th. Remember CA said she offered the stuff in the car to LE but they weren't interested?
This is huge if that is true. That would mean just about everybody had access to the car after the decomp smell was revealed to LE. ouch.

 

[hroark2112]

Yuri's probable cause statement for KC's arrest has no mention of the smell.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/07/21/caylee.affidavit.pdf

IMO it wasn't mentioned because she wasn't being arrested/charged with murder at that time, only neglect, false official statements and obstructing a criminal investigation. Decomposition odor doesn't play into any of those charges. Had he been arresting her for murder at that time, the smell might have been more critical.

 

[TorisMom003]

Brittany (the neighbor) interview with LE on July 30.

http://cayleeanthony.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/brittany-schieber-7-24.pdf

 

[Harmony 2]

Brittany (the neighbor) interview with LE on July 30.

http://cayleeanthony.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/brittany-schieber-7-24.pdf

I don't see anything about cleaning of the car. Brittany says she saw the Anthony's milling around the car but not in the trunk then LE arrived.

From hand written page 1247:

 

[RR0004]

Yuri's probable cause statement for KC's arrest has no mention of the smell.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/07/21/caylee.affidavit.pdf

I would imagine that's because what they charged her with wasn't related to a "dead' child.

 

[LC446]

I understand the concern for the lapse in time that the vehicle was sealed and taken to the forensics bay. It was many hours. I too am curious as to why one of the initial officers, if they in fact entered the car, did not mention the smell to Yuri. Hopefully, these officers will be called at trial and we can get some clarification. I'm going to speculate a little bit here (give them the benefit of the doubt) and say that if these officers had not been exposed to that smell...no exposure to decomposing bodies in the past...they might not have known what it was and in the absence of a body, you would know the smell is very bad but without that frame of reference, would not make that leap.

Also, initially the call was for a missing child. Casey told everyone that Caylee was taken by the nanny, wrote it in a statement even. George states that the smell is from the trash they found in the car.

The focus was on finding the child, who they thought was abducted, from another location. To their knowledge there is no homicide, the child was not taken from the car, the car was not an integral part of the investigation at that time. I can see how this could've been overlooked at the time. It doesn't negate the evidence that was later found...but I will say that there might have been more evidence preserved had it been done more quickly.

 

[BeanE]

I don't see anything about cleaning of the car. Brittany says she saw the Anthony's milling around the car but not in the trunk then LE arrived.

From hand written page 1247:

Nope. As I said, it was in a news interview.

 

[JBean]

IMO it wasn't mentioned because she wasn't being arrested/charged with murder at that time, only neglect, false official statements and obstructing a criminal investigation. Decomposition odor doesn't play into any of those charges. Had he been arresting her for murder at that time, the smell might have been more critical.

decomp smell in moms car+ baby missing for 31 days and not reported by mom= very large red flag.

 

[BeanE]

decomp smell in moms car+ baby missing for 31 days and not reported by mom= very large red flag.

And even GA told Yuri that he and Cindy were worried that "something had happened" to Caylee.

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW...for timeline purposes CINDY's cell phone activity 7/15PM:

7/15/2008 4:27 PM Cindy texted Casey
7/15/2008 4:44 PM Casey texted Cindy
7/15/2008 4:45 PM Cindy texted Casey
7/15/2008 4:48 PM Casey texted Cindy
7/15/2008 5:31 PM Cindy called Casey's cell (not on Casey's record) <2mins
7/15/2008 5:40 PM Cindy called George's cell (likely left vmail <1min)
7/15/2008 5:42 PM George returned the call for <2mins
7/15/2008 6:33 PM Cindy called Amy <1min
7/15/2008 6:33 PM Cindy called Amy <1min
7/15/2008 8:01 PM Cindy called George's cell <1min

7/15/2008 8:08PM Cindy's first 911 call for reference

7/15/2008 8:13 PM Cindy called her own vmail <2mins
7/15/2008 8:22 PM Lee called Cindy
7/15/2008 8:34 PM George called Cindy

7/15/2008 8:44 PM Cindy's second 911 call for reference

7/15/2008 9:25 PM *Cindy called (321)###-2291

7/15/2008 9:41 PM Cindy's third 911 call for reference

7/15/2008 10:28 PM **Cindy called (407)###-6434 <2mins
7/15/2008 10:33 PM (407)###-6434 called Cindy <3mins

*Odd :waitasec: Note the time of this call to this # relative to the timing of calling 911 that evening. Maybe nothing, but, this is the only instance of Cindy's phone ever dialing this #, and there is no record of this number ever returning her call that I see. The # comes up unpublished on a reverse look-up (perhaps other WS's have better means ) but does return a few hits from a guy that lists 2 or 3 cars on craigslist in '09. So...prolly getting a recycled number...but thought worth noting. Two numbers in Casey's phone have the same area code & prefix (Sean D. & Jon W.) but the last four #'s aren't close enough to be a reasonable misdial.

**Unpublished number. :waitasec: No numbers in Casey's phone even close. This timing would've been in the thick of LE being on-the-scene @ G&C's. :waitasec:

I know we've done the timeline on 7/15 on the ping thread...just FYI from Cindy's cell perspective. On the ping thread we also used Cindy's Epass records IIRC to determine what time she left Hopespring to go get Amy. But by 6:33PM she was back home from work and going through the car when she found Amy's resume & called her.

 

[christee]

Muzikman helped me with some dates and times on the pics of the trash bags, in the Dumpster, on another thread. Thought I'd post here in case info helps the timeline (if not, I was never here!):

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3966491&postcount=55"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's Photobucket - #2[/ame]

 

[BondJamesBond]

Muzikman helped me with some dates and times on the pics of the trash bags, in the Dumpster, on another thread. Thought I'd post here in case info helps the timeline (if not, I was never here!):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's Photobucket - #2

Thanks, Christee (and MM).

So...pics @ towyard dumpster 7/16 ~9:57PM and pic of sideyard @ ~10:13PM per LE's camera clock. Which equates pretty well to the travel time betwixt the two.

Hmmm... :waitasec: It woulda been a short trip over there too for McBryde & George. Wonder when they left Hopespring :waitasec: I realize the CSI report has an earlier arrival time for the car @ the forensics bay. Just observing that if we didn't have that piece 'o info it would've seemed pretty clean to assume George signed the paperwork @ 9:30PM before he & McBryde left and Beasley continued on processing the car after they left IYKWIM.

 

[Reagan]

Just throwing this in there, but I do recall e-mails from a very frustrated CSI that OCSO didn't process the entire car, only the trunk. He was complaining that you always process the entire car, always.

I know I'm way off topic as to what you guys are discussing now, but since the title said processing also, I thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[JBean]

Just throwing this in there, but I do recall e-mails from a very frustrated CSI that OCSO didn't process the entire car, only the trunk. He was complaining that you always process the entire car, always.

I know I'm way off topic as to what you guys are discussing now, but since the title said processing also, I thought I'd throw that out there.

No you are fine we are talking about processing the car. if you could find some back up for that information it would be great. Very interesting.

 

[treeseeker]

Just throwing this in there, but I do recall e-mails from a very frustrated CSI that OCSO didn't process the entire car, only the trunk. He was complaining that you always process the entire car, always.

I know I'm way off topic as to what you guys are discussing now, but since the title said processing also, I thought I'd throw that out there.

Link to the email Reagan referred to pg 34/44 or 8407:
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0929/21147593.pdf

 

[JBean]

Link to the email Reagan referred to pg 34/44 or 8407:
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0929/21147593.pdf

Oh my. That is just bizarre. This car is/was probably the most valuable piece of evidence short of the remains but OCSO has car avoidance issues . Perhaps as long as it was sealed up and preserved correctly it really didn't matter when the processing was done..

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Oh my. That is just bizarre. This car is/was probably the most valuable piece of evidence short of the remains but OCSO has car avoidance issues . Perhaps as long as it was sealed up and preserved correctly it really didn't matter when the processing was done..

Since Tony did not smell anything odd on the 23rd, and George did not see or smell anything odd when he was several feet away and KC handed him the gas cans on the 24th, then does that mean KC placed a deceased Caylee in the trunk after giving George the gas cans back, and removed her just prior to running the car out of gas and leaving it at Amscot? This would allow for a couple days for the decomposing body to intensify the odor in the trunk. If this timeline has been debunked, I apologize.
Now, if Caylee’s remains were in the trunk and removed prior to when Tony was near the trunk on the 23rd, and already disposed of I have a very troubling question. Is it reasonably possible, that the trace evidence used in the air sample (which to my knowledge is the only human decomp like substance found in the interior of the trunk), and the small amount of adipocere like substance found on the napkins in the white trash bag combined to emit a smell of death that intensified so greatly from after the 24th of June when George was near the open trunk, to the unmistakable smell of death that could be noticed while several feet away from the vehicle while the trunk, doors and windows were all closed, on July 15th? Or is it reasonably possible that CA & GA found and used some miraculous cleanser that removed the amount of decomp necessary to cause this horrendous smell of death, while leaving behind all the normal gasoline, oil, and other type things one would normally find in a trunk? Or is it reasonably possible that the maggot infested garbage in the white trash bag produced a god awful smell after sitting in the enclosed trunk for a couple weeks under the Florida sun, that was so terrible it smelled like something died in there?
If actions speak louder than words, then the fact that the Pontiac was not taken in for processing until nearly 22 hours after Cindy’s 911 call saying ‘it smells like a dead body was in the damn trunk” could lead one to believe that the police may have thought the smell was indeed the smell of rotting garbage. If the smell of death is so unforgettable, and the trunk smelled of death, why did the police not immediately deem that trunk a crime scene and seal it off the moment the first officer smelled the unmistakable smell of death?
LE eventually impounded the vehicle, and processed the trunk. They also retrieved the white trash bag that had been sitting in a dumpster for nearly 30 hours. The important things they found was one hair that had a dark root. From a cut out sample of carpet they found an odor signature that had several components not unlike the components of human decomposition. In the white trash bag they found one leg of a species of fly known as Diptera.
Upon further examination LE released an entomology report that was based almost entirely on the insects found within the white trash bag that sat in a dumpster for 30 hours and had the potential to become contaminated during that time by other insects that were likely inside the dumpster. This report says it is possible that Caylee’s remains were at one time in the trunk. The single hair with the dark root could not be determined that it had indeed come from a decomposing body. The air sample from the trunk contained some but not all components you would normally find in a decomposing body, and has not yet been used in a court of law. The unmistakable smell of death must have been caused by the trace of human decomp like substance found on the piece of carpet and the adipocerelike substance on the napkins because once Caylee’s remains had been removed that could not be the cause of the increase in the intensity of the odor. Le did not impound the vehicle for 13 to 22 hours after they had become aware that the trunk smelled like something died in there.
I am certain I have not presented everything available from the processing of the trunk, and it is likely that LE has more evidence we have not seen yet. However, from the things I have mentioned in the paragraphs above I pose the following question,
Would any of the above cause a juror to have reasonable doubt that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk? As always all of the above is moo.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Oh my. That is just bizarre. This car is/was probably the most valuable piece of evidence short of the remains but OCSO has car avoidance issues . Perhaps as long as it was sealed up and preserved correctly it really didn't matter when the processing was done..

It seems they had avoidance issues regarding the processing of the prints from items in the white trash bag that was in the trunk at one time, as well.

 

[Harmony 2]

I will be extremely saddened if justice for Caylee does not prevail because: 1)her mother was cunning enough to let 30 days go by so that the elements and animals would ravage her remains and evidence, 2)her grandparents obstructed justice by removing/cleaning items in the vehicle, and 3) LE failed her by delaying the sealing/processing of pertinent, crucial evidence.

If Casey gets away with this I will never believe in our justice system again and will not follow a case, with my heart, ever again.