Pontiac: The odor, sealing off & processing the car #2

[TakeNote]

its late....sorry....little one really sick here....so im leaping thru threads....trying to catch up on stuff......i find it interesting about how long it took for LE to take control of the car.....

:hug:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Would be nothing short of pure, adulterated speculation...but since we hear George reportedly assured Cindy 7/15PM before they parted from the car to return to work that it was just rotting pizza...then by the time Yuri arrived 7/16AM George had 180'd on the smell...:waitasec: It could be that Cindy had already gone into command central and done what she could to keep LE away from the car. IOW...after she made the "smells like there's been a dead body in the d@mn car!" statement to the 911 operator she began to put it all together...and we hear of George, perhaps sneaking off to talk to Yuri like he did when he told the FBI 'bout the "chase". Just sayin' Cindy could be theatrical enough to keep a few LEO's occupied.

Also, IIRC, it seems like Lee's statement indicated that LE had Casey outside in the yard after they retrieved the cell phone from Tony's...workin' the phone. :waitasec: Did I imagine that???

 

[Pondering Mind]

I can't cite it @ the moment, but, IIRC, George took the battery out w/ the car in the garage. When Lee arrived 7/15PM the car was in the garage airing out. So...it was ventilating from time George drove it out of the towyard w/ the windows down...to the time it was closed up and moved to the curb...speculating that happened 7/16AM.

Dunno if they closed it up before LE arrived, but, Lee commented about sitting in the garage w/ Casey & the car and the stench.

I don't know if LE retrieved RM's address directly...perhaps indirectly from Cindy. Recall that Cindy gave Det. Beasley items that included several papers. Perhaps Cindy found the address and gave it to the LEO that reported it to Yuri...:waitasec: In that scenario LE may never have come in contact w/ the car until 7/16.

That's what I was thinking too Bond. I can totally see that happening as well. Would this have been after she had removed items from the car ..shoes, clothing etc, or before? And she sure didn't have a problem going thru the items in KC's pocketbook w/LE right there IIRC.

I didn't realize how many details I had forgotten!

 

[TakeNote]

they could have wanted to wait for a SW to search the car and trunk....but needed more time to get the info they needed for one....LE didnt really know at first that kc was going to lie about everything......

 

[Pondering Mind]

And the car being in the garage as well...while not the norm for the A's, everyone was coming and going through the front door apparently.

I also agree Bond that Cindy was most likely trying to keep LE away from the car by that point..that's jmo tho..

 

[BondJamesBond]

I wonder..at what point did they have an o chit moment?

*snipped*

I 'spect Yuri had one 7/16PM when he arrived to talk to CSI Bloise, who noted decomp odor immediately upon opening up the car. :doh: I 'spect he, Sgt. Allen et.al. have been kicking themselves ever since.

 

[BondJamesBond]

That's what I was thinking too Bond. I can totally see that happening as well. Would this have been after she had removed items from the car ..shoes, clothing etc, or before? And she sure didn't have a problem going thru the items in KC's pocketbook w/LE right there IIRC.

I didn't realize how many details I had forgotten!

BBM

After. Cindy had at least an hour alone w/ the car to go through it 7/15PM before heading off to get Amy. I'm assuming the black bag she gave Beasley was the Universal bag w/ the "Chris" nametag on it. That one looks like it could've been used essentially like a book bag, etc...just guessin' though. And having "Universal" on it...just might've been a little detail for Casey to suggest it was her 'work' stuff.

Also unclear to me if LE was continuously @ the house while they had Casey out on the Sawgrass adventure. :waitsec: That would've certainly been an add'l opportunity for G&C to go through the car again.

ETA: I try to give Cindy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to removing things...after all she commented about items like the plaid blanket - still unaccounted for - that could have otherwise never been mentioned. Still...its hard to resist the temptation that Cindy made some things *ahem* go away Really was an opportunity for Casey to stash something incriminating from the car in the playhouse before her arrest 7/16...to have it tossed before K9's arrived 7/17PM.

I've been wondering lately if that plaid blanket was soaked w/ decomp and the object of Casey's 'got rid of it' effort on 6/27. :waitasec:

 

[Pondering Mind]

*snipped*

I 'spect Yuri had one 7/16PM when he arrived to talk to CSI Bloise, who noted decomp odor immediately upon opening up the car. :doh: I 'spect he, Sgt. Allen et.al. have been kicking themselves ever since.

It's so not funny, but I needed that chuckle!
Needless to say... I 'spect you are right!!!

 

[BeanE]

Would be nothing short of pure, adulterated speculation...but since we hear George reportedly assured Cindy 7/15PM before they parted from the car to return to work that it was just rotting pizza...then by the time Yuri arrived 7/16AM George had 180'd on the smell...:waitasec: It could be that Cindy had already gone into command central and done what she could to keep LE away from the car. IOW...after she made the "smells like there's been a dead body in the d@mn car!" statement to the 911 operator she began to put it all together...and we hear of George, perhaps sneaking off to talk to Yuri like he did when he told the FBI 'bout the "chase". Just sayin' Cindy could be theatrical enough to keep a few LEO's occupied.

Also, IIRC, it seems like Lee's statement indicated that LE had Casey outside in the yard after they retrieved the cell phone from Tony's...workin' the phone. :waitasec: Did I imagine that???

I didn't take it as George believing the smell was the pizza and then doing a 180. Looking at his body language, facial expression, and listening to his tone of voice when he recounts this to LE, he seemed very much to me to have been lying to CA that the smell was pizza to keep her from worrying. And he did so at her prompting. She said something like "It was the pizza, George, right?" and he said yes because that's what she wanted to hear.

And yes, I remember Lee saying LE had KC outside. Don't remember if it was before or after the cell phone, but remember that Lee was either coming or going for the cell phone.

ETA: Can't get the tone of voice/body language from this, but FWIW:

YM: What did your, what did your wife think about it being when she first noticed it? Did she actually notice it, or did she make any comments on it?GA: Oh, after we pulled inside the garage she said, her exact words were, “JesusChrist what died?” That’s exactly what she said. But then she said it in a way,she says, “George, it was the pizza, right?” And I said, “Yeah (affirmative), it wasthe pizza.” And that’s what I left it go at that, but. I’m sitting here as thegrandfather, as the father, as George Anthony and as a guy who smelled thesmell before years ago and you just never forget it. I even stuck my nose downon it and I’m, I’m concerned. So…

 

[Pondering Mind]

BBM

After. Cindy had at least an hour alone w/ the car to go through it 7/15PM before heading off to get Amy. I'm assuming the black bag she gave Beasley was the Universal bag w/ the "Chris" nametag on it. That one looks like it could've been used essentially like a book bag, etc...just guessin' though. And having "Universal" on it...just might've been a little detail for Casey to suggest it was her 'work' stuff.

Then it was a purse or wallet that Lee brought back from TonE's that night that Cindy pilfered through and pocketed the $200.00, right? OT I know but trying to remember the sequence of events..IIRC LE did grab something from Cindy during that time, a credit card maybe? I don't know if we ever found out what that was.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I didn't take it as George believing the smell was the pizza and then doing a 180. Looking at his body language, facial expression, and listening to his tone of voice when he recounts this to LE, he seemed very much to me to have been lying to CA that the smell was pizza to keep her from worrying. And he did so at her prompting. She said something like "It was the pizza, George, right?" and he said yes because that's what she wanted to hear.

And yes, I remember Lee saying LE had KC outside. Don't remember if it was before or after the cell phone, but remember that Lee was either coming or going for the cell phone.

IKWYM, BeanE. George seemed to just be pacifying Cindy...just tell me what I want to hear IOW. I'm not suggesting he was waffling. He knew what he was dealing with in his head...I think he was just in shock/denial himself. He was clear @ the towyard that he knew that smell...

Then it was a purse or wallet that Lee brought back from TonE's that night that Cindy pilfered through and pocketed the $200.00, right? OT I know but trying to remember the sequence of events..IIRC LE did grab something from Cindy during that time, a credit card maybe? I don't know if we ever found out what that was.

LE picked up the cell phone ~10PM and returned to G&C's. Lee left G&C's ~midnight and got back ~2:45AM'ish. So...the dumping out of contents happened >2:45AM. The Casey w/ LE in the front yard would've been between 10PM-midnight.

...that also suggests LE was present for a considerable portion of the night.

When did they bring Casey back to the house after her Sawgrass adventure?

 

[I Din Doot]

I can't cite it @ the moment, but, IIRC, George took the battery out w/ the car in the garage. When Lee arrived 7/15PM the car was in the garage airing out. So...it was ventilating from time George drove it out of the towyard w/ the windows down...to the time it was closed up and moved to the curb...speculating that happened 7/16AM.

Dunno if they closed it up before LE arrived, but, Lee commented about sitting in the garage w/ Casey & the car and the stench.

I don't know if LE retrieved RM's address directly...perhaps indirectly from Cindy. Recall that Cindy gave Det. Beasley items that included several papers. Perhaps Cindy found the address and gave it to the LEO that reported it to Yuri...:waitasec: In that scenario LE may never have come in contact w/ the car until 7/16.

I just spent the last couple days reviewing CA's early interviews (GAG). In one she complained about problems with misstatements in the reports. This was one that I specifically remember. She gave the address to LE, they DID NOT retrieve it from the car (CA's version). HTH

Found it! 31July2009 interview CA, Page 7539

 

[BeanE]

I just spent the last couple days reviewing CA's early interviews (GAG). In one she complained about problems with misstatements in the reports. This was one that I specifically remember. She gave the address to LE, they DID NOT retrieve it from the car (CA's version). HTH

Found it! 31July2009 interview CA, Page 7539

Link and quote:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20224558/detail.html

PDF page 23

CA: Okay. I was actually the one that gave the police um, the last known number that.. address in case I ever needed to go pick Caylee up, out of my address book. And in his report Melich's report it says, an initial responding deputies had found a handwritten note with the address of,, 232 Glenwood in the defendant's car parked to my arrival. Well, that's not true. They knew they had an address that Casey had provided them that was real close okay to that area. When that didn't pan out I said, well wait a minute. I think I have an address.. I went into my kitchen, pulled out my address book and pulled out that yellow sticky note that had the Glenwood Avenue address. And walked it out and said, I just got this out of my address book, try this one. So, you know I mean just things like that. That's a mis-statement right there.

Great job, I Din Doot!

 

[BeanE]

So now we're back to no LE anywhere near, or interested in, or touching, or sealing, or guarding, the car that GA is telling them he believes contains a dead body.

So far as a SW, all they needed was a verbal from GA - which is how they later towed and inspected the car.

I see no reason to believe GA refused to let them look in the car because he readily agreed to it later, and there are no notes saying they asked and he refused.

Put the first responding officers and Yuri on the stand please. I want to question them. :dance:

 

[JBean]

I just spent the last couple days reviewing CA's early interviews (GAG). In one she complained about problems with misstatements in the reports. This was one that I specifically remember. She gave the address to LE, they DID NOT retrieve it from the car (CA's version). HTH

Found it! 31July2009 interview CA, Page 7539

Great catch.
Only problem is that is making it look more and more like LE never even bothered to look at the car let alone the trunk.

ruh roh.

The oh chit moment is referred to in the bond hearing. After they check out KC's stories YM said he remembered someone mentioning a smell. So he then went to check it out. IMO, he went omg the car we need to look at the car because this lady is full of it. It was a total afterthought IMO.

 

[JBean]

they could have wanted to wait for a SW to search the car and trunk....but needed more time to get the info they needed for one....LE didnt really know at first that kc was going to lie about everything......

They did not rneed a search warrant.

 

[Tulessa]

Did they search all of the Anthony vehicles? I assume yes. Do we have those reports too. George says that Casey came home, switched out vehicles ( took mom's) and drove like a bat out of hell, kept the car for the afternoon. I wonder if she ever took Cindy's car out of her work parking lot without her knowledge.

Or used it to dispose of Caylee? Just an after thought, not a FACT.

 

[JBean]

Did they search all of the Anthony vehicles? I assume yes. Do we have those reports too. George says that Casey came home, switched out vehicles ( took mom's) and drove like a bat out of hell, kept the car for the afternoon. I wonder if she ever took Cindy's car out of her work parking lot without her knowledge.

You assume they searched the vehicles when? That is the problem.

 

[Tulessa]

I just spent the last couple days reviewing CA's early interviews (GAG). In one she complained about problems with misstatements in the reports. This was one that I specifically remember. She gave the address to LE, they DID NOT retrieve it from the car (CA's version). HTH

Found it! 31July2009 interview CA, Page 7539

God bless your heart! BBM. I couldn't do it. You have more patience than me LOL.

 

[AZlawyer]

BBM

After. Cindy had at least an hour alone w/ the car to go through it 7/15PM before heading off to get Amy. I'm assuming the black bag she gave Beasley was the Universal bag w/ the "Chris" nametag on it. That one looks like it could've been used essentially like a book bag, etc...just guessin' though. And having "Universal" on it...just might've been a little detail for Casey to suggest it was her 'work' stuff.

Also unclear to me if LE was continuously @ the house while they had Casey out on the Sawgrass adventure. :waitsec: That would've certainly been an add'l opportunity for G&C to go through the car again.

ETA: I try to give Cindy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to removing things...after all she commented about items like the plaid blanket - still unaccounted for - that could have otherwise never been mentioned. Still...its hard to resist the temptation that Cindy made some things *ahem* go away Really was an opportunity for Casey to stash something incriminating from the car in the playhouse before her arrest 7/16...to have it tossed before K9's arrived 7/17PM.

I've been wondering lately if that plaid blanket was soaked w/ decomp and the object of Casey's 'got rid of it' effort on 6/27. :waitasec:

I really want to give Cindy the benefit of the doubt, too, but one thing has been bugging me lately.

Here's JWG's helpful timeline of July 15 for all family members:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3771249#post3771249"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3771249#post3771249[/ame]

Note that Cindy arrives home from her ill-advised return to work at Gentiva and starts cleaning the car around 4:15 pm. She then texts KC "call me ASAP major prob" at 4:27 pm.

Um, what could she have learned in 12 minutes of cleaning/searching that created more of a "major prob" than what she already knew at 2:00 pm when they picked up the car?? She already knew it smelled like a dead body and that Caylee's carseat was left in the car. The white trash bag was in the Johnson's Towing dumpster, so it was nothing in the trash bag that set off Cindy's alarm bells.

KC thinks the "major prob" text is about Amy's camera arriving in the mail or some such crap, but Cindy responds again: "call me". What could Cindy have found in the car that she didn't want to say in writing?

Until that moment, Cindy was apparently satisfied with Casey's quick telephonic "oh mom I'll explain later" or whatever Cindy testified Casey said earlier that afternoon. But almost immediately after looking in the car Cindy is in "major prob" mode and refuses to say in writing what exactly the "major prob" is.

Of course, LE didn't know about the car at this point...I'm thinking that any evidence-tinkering was done before LE was on the scene.