Pope's speech ignites worldwide controversy/ Islam insulted

[Karole28]

It is not a fantasy that we are all alike. It is the truth.

We are all alike in that we all want to be happy and no living being wants to suffer.

I am happy to debate this with you.

Really? That's absolute truth?

No living being wants to suffer, or wants to cause OTHERS to suffer? I'm not talking about self flagellation here.

What happiness is to you, is not necessarily what is happiness to others. Some people happily strap bombs on their children and send them to market. Then they're happy and thankful they've made the ultimate sacrifice.

What makes you happy?

 

[southcitymom]

It is not a fantasy that we are all alike. It is the truth.

We are all alike in that we all want to be happy and no living being wants to suffer.

I am happy to debate this with you.

No need to debate me - I find this truth to be absolute as well.

 

[windovervocalcords]

No need to debate me - I find this truth to be absolute as well.

Thank you.

I am interested to see how someone debates this to be otherwise.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Really? That's absolute truth?

No living being wants to suffer, or wants to cause OTHERS to suffer? I'm not talking about self flagellation here.

What happiness is to you, is not necessarily what is happiness to others. Some people happily strap bombs on their children and send them to market. Then they're happy and thankful they've made the ultimate sacrifice.

What makes you happy?

Even a harm doer wants to be happy. We are all equal in this regard.

What makes me happy are the times when I do not give in to anger and hatred.

 

[Karole28]

Even a harm doer wants to be happy. We are all equal in this regard.

What makes me happy are the times when I do not give in to anger and hatred.

A harm doer? Is that like evil doer-Lite?

So, you're ok with a "harm doer" strapping a bomb on a child to kill some shoppers to achieve their own particular brand of happiness?
Cause, ya know, it'd like, be wrong to actually pass judgement on a little ole harm doer, right? Especially if this "harm doer" is not white and Christian.

 

[windovervocalcords]

A harm doer? Is that like evil doer-Lite?

So, you're ok with a "harm doer" strapping a bomb on a child to kill some shoppers to achieve their own particular brand of happiness?
Cause, ya know, it'd like, be wrong to actually pass judgement on a little ole harm doer, right? Especially if this "harm doer" is not white and Christian.

You are not debating whether we are all alike in that we all want happiness.

Instead you are saying I condone violence. This is not a representation of my view.

 

[southcitymom]

Even a harm doer wants to be happy. We are all equal in this regard.

What makes me happy are the times when I do not give in to anger and hatred.

It's the misperception that we are different that is the root of all human violence - ie., war. The terrorists lash out at others violently because they are afraid. Yet they are afraid of the same things we ALL are afraid of - afraid of poverty, afraid of pain, afraid for their children's inheritance, afraid they won't see God, afraid they will...We respond in fear...and so it goes and has for centuries.

When we get on the same page of truth - that we ALL want to stop being afraid and we all want to be happy - we start to move closer towards peace, in our smaller communities and then our larger ones.

For me - though I realize not for everyone - violent words are harmful as violent actions are harmful.

 

[southcitymom]

A harm doer? Is that like evil doer-Lite?

So, you're ok with a "harm doer" strapping a bomb on a child to kill some shoppers to achieve their own particular brand of happiness?
Cause, ya know, it'd like, be wrong to actually pass judgement on a little ole harm doer, right? Especially if this "harm doer" is not white and Christian.

Even people who do harm (whether you consider it a BIG harm like murdering a child or a LITTLE harm like gossiping about a friend) want to be happy. The fact that they screw up (big or little) doesn't mean they don't want to be happy.

 

[Karole28]

Even people who do harm (whether you consider it a BIG harm like murdering a child or a LITTLE harm like gossiping about a friend) want to be happy. The fact that they screw up (big or little) doesn't mean they don't want to be happy.

Oh. My. God.

Please tell me that you don't equate gossip with child murder in the realm of "screw ups"?

Believe it or not. (I'll address WOD on this one too, to save myself some trouble) There are people in this world who don't care about happiness.

There are people in this world who who don't care for things like happiness, worldliness and blessings "on this plane". They're waiting for their rewards, nay their happiness (virigins) when they get to their version of heaven and they don't look at you the same way you look at them. (why is this hard to understand?) They're taught to look at you like they would livestock. Sure, it might be a friendly lamb, but it's to be eaten and it's to be killed, so be it.

Why you guys have some kind of guilt complex and feel the need to embrace a murderous mindset is beyond me. I'm not here to psychoanalyze you and don't care to.

Just know, that when they come for you and yours, they're doing it because they had an "underpriviledged" childhood and are misunderstood.

Heck, if you convert quickly, maybe they'll spare you.

That might make them happy, who knows?

 

[angelwngs]

And if angelwings were to check with Julianne as to why she used that particular signature I venture to say that it would not be because Julianne thinks Muslims are violent by nature.

The Pope may have had positive intentions. However, he might have instead challenged his own congregations to maintain peaceful relations with Muslims, and to see them kindly as no different from Christians. Some good, some needing help, some bad.

He might have instead said we will show you our open hearts and minds and invite you to do the same.

Teach us about the ways Muslims and Christians share common goals. Help us to help you so that we may all live in peace.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I DID NOT say that I thought Julianne thinks Muslims are violent by nature.
Those words came out of your brain, through your fingers, through your keyboard to be viewed to infer that I was trying to convey your thoughts with my words...... I was not.

I said that I wondered when more humans would take her signature to heart and would decide to speak up for their own beliefs. I will stand by this feeling until the day I die, no matter who chooses to BLAST my opinion and my words here on this message board. Every human has the right to share his or her opinions. However, I shall try not to ever join with any other poster(s) here or anywhere else, in some childish click of verbal attacks on any single individual for simply having the courage to voice their personal opinions. I consider that wrong, I don't care who it is.

Ironically, the attacks beginning in post 107, 108 and 109 just reiterate the feeling which generated my original post.

I am thankful that the Pope had the courage to voice his convictions.

I wish more humans used rational words of peace as the Pope chose to do in order to solve problems instead of behaving as a flame thrower, choosing to fight with twisted words intended to incite more conflict.

And I repeat my humble opinion that, anyone who is not outraged at the condition of World, National, State and Local Affairs today, is not paying attention.

Thankfully, the Pope found the courage to become outraged enough to speak out for a better way to achieve a kinder, better World than we are witness to today.

 

[southcitymom]

Oh. My. God.

Please tell me that you don't equate gossip with child murder in the realm of "screw ups"?

That is not what I said. What I said is straightforward.

I said even people who do harm want to be happy.

How you rate the sins of others is not my concern.

 

[Details]

I am thankful that the Pope had the courage to voice his convictions.
...
Thankfully, the Pope found the courage to become outraged enough to speak out for a better way to achieve a kinder, better World than we are witness to today.

Ummm - you did know that the Pope has said explicitly that those words were not at all intended to convey his opinion of Islam, and do not at all represent his beliefs?

 

[Karole28]

That is not what I said. What I said is straightforward.

I said even people who do harm want to be happy.

How you rate the sins of others is not my concern.

And, I say people who do harm don't deserve to be happy and are not necessarily pursuing happiness.

And, I also say that if you can't rate a person's sin (killing a child vs. gossiping), I don't know what to tell you.

Except that OJ loves you and people like you.

 

[southcitymom]

And, I say people who do harm don't deserve to be happy and are not necessarily pursuing happiness.

And, I also say that if you can't rate a person's sin (killing a child vs. gossiping), I don't know what to tell you.

Except that OJ loves you and people like you.

We are humans. By definition, we do harm. I haven't met a perfect person on planet Earth yet. You are absoultely right that when we do harm, we are not pursuing happiness. That said, we all want to BE happy. That is a universal human desire. That is all I was trying to say.

I do not "rate" sins of others. I feel unable to do that. I have not walked any miles in another person's shoes. I don't look down upon anyone who judges others because it's human nature to do that.

When I am tempted to pass judgment, it is usually because I want to feel better about myself and I want to divert my attention to another person's sins instead of pay attention to my own sins. I am probably sicker than most people in this regard, so it serves me much better (and I am therefore happier) to keep my focus on my corner of the world.

But when I read a story of a person who has murdered another person, my heart aches for the murderer as for the victim. Human beings are connected and, therefore, we are only as strong as our weakest link.

 

[julianne]

AMEN! :angel:

I wonder when the world will listen to Julianne's signature quote here at WS:

"If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

As a society we human beings have become too complaisant. It is time that we voiced our opinions. There is power in unity. Outrage does does not have to lead to violence. To seek Peace in the name of a Higher Power by using guns, bombs and other terroristic tactics is the most convoluted logic imaginable. Power to the Pope for having the courage to speak up for his convictions! :clap:

angelwngs--

I couldn't agree with this statement more. Is really IS convoluted logic. No matter WHO is doing it or WHY, it just doesn't make sense.

I am a peace-monger. I sometimes think I should've been been brought up in the 60's. I don't agree with war. I hate hatred. I think everyone on this planet has an inherent right to live PEACEFULLY. There are many people who take that right away from each other. As much as I believe that people have a right to their own religious beliefs, I take major issue when those religious beliefs harm others. What does that prove? Why is it neccessary to kill an innocent NUN? HOLY FREAKING COW-----SHE WAS A NUN!!!!!!!!!! You can't get more innocent than that!

And what the Hell is an HONOR RAPE? Seriously, I don't know, but the name sure implies a lot. Is that like a MERCY BEATING? Or a LOVE-BASED BEHEADING? Or a SENSITIVE SKINNING?

When you do something inherently wrong, regardless of your motives, it is still inherently wrong. I know that some will say whether it's wrong is just my opinion---but can anyone seriously say that strapping bombs to children is right? Strapping bombs to yourself is wrong if it involves killing and maiming innocent bystanders. Now, if you want to go out in the desert somewhere all by yourself and strap yourself up with bombs and blow yourself up where nobody else gets hurt, then go for it.

The second you force someone to be a part of YOUR beliefs is the second it becomes wrong, I dont' care what the reason is behind it. The second you kill or maim someone who didn't want to be killed or maimed, it is wrong. Why should innocent people DIE to further your own agenda???? Regardless of the agenda, or who's agenda it is....if innocent people DIE as a direct result of it, what in the hell does that accomplish? It certainly doesn't validate that agenda AT ALL. How can it?

There's no reason this can't be discussed on a level like adults. Spewing forth venomous comments, insults and disparaging remarks towards others does nothing to advance ones point of view. Quite the opposite, in fact. When one doesn't agree with a posters opinion, there are ways to make note of that without sarcasm and inflammatory remarks. Everyone has a right to post what they believe. To belittle a post simply because one doesn't agree with it is immature and quite telling, IMO. Sometimes people need to bring people down in order for themselves to feel up. Sad.

 

[narlacat]

<< Human beings are connected>>

We most certainly are!

When we kill someone else, we are ultimately killing oursleves.

 

[californiacarrie]

I have much appreciated your contributions to this thread, WOVC.

And I, both yours (SCM & WOVC). It frustrates me to see so much ignorance! Thanks for trying at least....even if they don't seem to hear.

 

[Karole28]

And I, both yours (SCM & WOVC). It frustrates me to see so much ignorance! Thanks for trying at least....even if they don't seem to hear.

Thank you for adding so much to the conversation.

 

[californiacarrie]

I'm just getting caught up here Karole, relax.

There's no reason this can't be discussed on a level like adults. Spewing forth venomous comments, insults and disparaging remarks towards others does nothing to advance ones point of view. Quite the opposite, in fact. When one doesn't agree with a posters opinion, there are ways to make note of that without sarcasm and inflammatory remarks. Everyone has a right to post what they believe. To belittle a post simply because one doesn't agree with it is immature and quite telling, IMO. Sometimes people need to bring people down in order for themselves to feel up. Sad.

 

[Karole28]

I'm just getting caught up here Karole, relax.

I'm quite relaxed. And, didn't update this thread just to insult anyone.

Yourself?