Position of arms

[Imon128]

Originally posted by Toth
Since the Ramseys found the photo showed very little and asked to see the actual knife but were refused, I would say that at no time did John Ramsey agree that the knife was theirs.

Whenever did John ask to see the actual knife? When and where did John say that he could see little from the photo?

 

[Maxi]

I think John ripped the tape off of JBR's mouth before trying to get the cord off her hands.

 

[Toltec]

John tried to hold JonBenets head.

John ripped the tape from JB's mouth.

John tried to untie the cords from JB's wrists which he claimed were on very tight.

John removed the blanket which was wrapped "papoose" style on JonBenet.

John held JonBenet.

ALL THIS BEFORE FLEET...WHO HEARD JOHN"S IMMEDIATE SCREAM...WHO WAS 10-20 FEET FROM HIM...ENTERED THE ROOM???

 

[Eagle1]

At another forum they're saying Burke's Swiss Army knife was red. Not that it makes any difference that I can see but does that give anyone any ideas? The kitchen knife may have been used to cut cord, they theorized.

If not, I think Ivy's explanation works, that Burke may have been whittling with the kitchen knife because LHP had hidden his red knife, which he somehow found and just threw the other one on the counter where it was found. There really would have been some kind of knife needed to cut cord, I think.

 

[Nehemiah]

With regards to the bondage Barbie found on the lawn, were the arms tied over the head and then to the ankles?

We know that the rope dangling on JB's wrist was long...Could it have been tied to her ankles, like a replica of the outside Barbie?

 

[Summergirl]

I dont know if I believe this, but her arms were above her head, like Jesus on the cross.

Well here are some pictures of the Barbies that I have found:

 

[Brefie]

The standard crucifix depicts Jesus with his arms out to the side.

 

[txsvicki]

With regards to the bondage Barbie found on the lawn, were the arms tied over the head and then to the ankles?

We know that the rope dangling on JB's wrist was long...Could it have been tied to her ankles, like a replica of the outside Barbie?

I must have missed something. There was a Barbie tied up in this way found on the Ramsey's lawn?

 

[narlacat]

There was a barbie doll found on the front lawn of the Ramsey's ex house in 1998. It was in bondage with a white cord around its neck and a red spot on its gown in the vaginal area.
Jeff Shapiro found the doll and turned it over to LE.
There was a guy who lived in the area who went by the name of The Prophet, he was a student at CU, he had a thing with Barbie Dolls and hung naked Barbies from the ceiling of a local diner (with the owner's permission). He also wrote an essay titled ' Barbie Doll, the ultimate **** which was on his website.
He was investigated and cleared.

 

[Nehemiah]

Thanks, Summer.

I knew that JB's were over her head, but I had wondered if the Barbie was in the very same position, with the rope tied from the arms to ankles. Apparently not; the arms are positioned differently.

 

[Summergirl]

Your welcome, Nehemiah.

I personally think the Barbies are a sick joke by someone either visiting Boulder or a student at CU.

But I do have a question- Like someone said, this was thrown at the house in 98- did the media and rest of the Country find out JonBenet was tied up with her arms above her head? I dont remember when everyone found out- if wasnt leaked out by that time- maybe the barbies ARE from the killer, because how else would he know JonBenet was tied with her hands over her head?

Just a thought.

 

[Nehemiah]

The Barbies' arms are tied behind their backs.

 

[Summergirl]

The Barbies' arms are tied behind their backs.

Even if it wasnt exactly how JonBenet was.. how would the sicko know that she was tied up like that? Unless reports leaked about JonBenet being tied sort of like the Barbies.

 

[Voice of Reason]

And John Ramsey laughed and said in his house, potatoes come from a box.

do john or patsy strike you as the type who have half a clue as to what utensils are in their kitchen? is that your flashlight? i don't know. is that burke's baseball bat? i don't know. is that your paring knife? oh, definitely not. i can't tell you for sure whether patsy peeled potatoes, but i'd bet you john never did anything in that kitchen. and it would make sense that LHP knew about the knife since she probably did a lot of her work in the kitchen.

 

[Rupert]

It would not make sense for a staging to tie the hands and rest them down on her chest. It would make more sense to position them over her head.

If it was an intruder, then surely the perp would tie her hands above her head while she was stunned, so as to immobilize her.

She was no doubt garroted face down. If her hands were tied then, they must have been raised above her head. Otherwise the autopsy would have pointed something out. Her hands were tied with the same cord. Which came first the tying of hands or the tying of the garrote?


Simply put:

If the cord was cut first to immobilize her by tying her hands above her head, then that would support the intruder theory.

If the cord was cut first to set up the garrote, then that would support the staging theory.

Now, a cord is a linear thing with a start and a finish. Is there a way to tell which end is the start? If so, then they could line up the cord cuts and figure which happened first: the tying of her hands or the set up of the garrote.

Hint: the first cut could be done by something different than the paring knife. Under microscope, I'm sure they can tell different cuts and they must still have the cord.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Those are really good points. Does anyone know what testing was done on the cord and what the findings were?

 

[lannie]

We saw her hands in several leaked photos & there is no damage from the cords, also autopsy does not list any damage to wrists so cord must of been put on after she was either garroted or hit on the head, for staging .
John did carry her up the stairs with her stiff arms stright up over her head,what a sight that must of been, no wonder patsy did not go running to see what was happing ,she already knew ,in my HP.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Yes, I don't think the wrist-tying was for restraint. I think she knew her killer, and went along with what was done out of fear and being accustomed to being compliant with this person, and didn't seek to fight back until she was choking and struggled against the rope around her neck in survival instinct.

If there's no damage to her wrists from the cord being around them, that surely suggests staging...same as with the tape over her mouth. When tested, it showed no signs of having been present over her lips while she was alive, meaning it hadn't been struggled against. I'm willing to bet the wrists were bound after she died. Were there any defense wounds on her hands or arms? If this was an intruder hurting her, I guarantee she would have tried to fight him off.

 

[Summergirl]

I dont think JonBenet knew her killer, BUT I think the killer knew her family very well.

The ransom note has too many similarites towards John.. but I think the killer assumed that John, like Patsy, grew up in the South.

I think the killer did alot of research before the night of JonBenet's murder.

I also think that JonBenet's killer was a sex offender. I dont think he is a registered sex offender because BPD or BDA would been on his ASAP when they went through the list of Sex Offenders in Boulder County

Maybe he used the cords to keep JonBenets hands up in the air so she couldnt smack him, while he was molesting her.

This case has let people so many questions :bang:

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Well, if he tied her hands to restrain her, there would be scraping and/or bruising on her wrists from it. I'm sure she would have tried to pull her hands down to fight him off, especially once he turned to sexually abusing her, definitely when she was being asphyxiated. Weren't there some marks on her neck consistent with her trying to relieve the pressure of the cord suffocating her? If there were, and that's what those marks are from, then she wasn't restrained by the wrists during the murder.