Possible Kyron Sightings

[pghbrandi]

Does anyone have any links to statements or other evidence that can rule this out? My husband has joked a time or two he'd gladly donate to the reward fund if someone could provide us with evidence that I am wrong.

Given how freaked out I've been, I'm not sure how much he's joking....

Seriously though.... I keep trying, I can't find any mention of his whereabouts, or what specifically was going on in the case, a sort of timeline for what happened in the first 24 hours... I think that would be the easiest place to prove it wasn't Kaine.

And yes, it could have been a relative, known or not, or someone of the same ethnic background, or someone who just looks similar, although then we get into coincidences that are pretty improbable.

The other thing is, the little boy knew and trusted the people he was with. He was very comfortable with the man. Trying desperately to get the attention/approval of the woman. Kids don't do that with kidnappers 24 hours after they disappear. Particularly not a kid who's other Dad is LE. I'll bet my bottom dollar that TY has had a few talks with him about stranger danger.

Jeez, I don't doubt your story one bit. I couldn't imagine being in your shoes. Seeing Kyron then putting this all together! I hope it was Kyron and he is ok. Don't go too crazy over this. I'm sure that's easier said than done. Hey, at least you called it in and they seem to be taking it seriously.

 

[curiouserthangeorge]

Does anyone have any links to statements or other evidence that can rule this out? My husband has joked a time or two he'd gladly donate to the reward fund if someone could provide us with evidence that I am wrong.

Given how freaked out I've been, I'm not sure how much he's joking....

Seriously though.... I keep trying, I can't find any mention of his whereabouts, or what specifically was going on in the case, a sort of timeline for what happened in the first 24 hours... I think that would be the easiest place to prove it wasn't Kaine.

Hope this helps (BBM): (eta this is from Saturday June 5th, the day after Kyron disappeared)

Sgt. David Thompson of the Washington County Sheriff's Office said officers remained hopeful that Kyron would be found safe and said that foul play was not suspected. The parents have been cooperative, and investigators were with them most of the day. But officials did not offer scenarios about how the child could have gone missing from the school, a vanishing that went undetected by teachers or any other adult.

article link:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_missing_portland_bo.html

 

[rnmif]

Hope this helps (BBM): (eta this is from Saturday June 5th, the day after Kyron disappeared)



article link:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_missing_portland_bo.html

Most. Poop.

Why couldn't they have said outright they were with them around the clock, and the grieving parents were tending the home fires and cuddling their daughter, or something concrete like that?

UGH.

I remember Terri posted on FB at 11am that day, I think one of the things was about the flyers. I think there was something about Kaine going somewhere, but I don't remember. Might not have even been that day, or I could be remembering some fantasy in my head....

I appreciate the link, curiouser.... if I reeeealllly stretch, maybe I can just make myself believe they said all. They did, right? They were there all day. Yah. Whew.

Darn.

 

[For The Kids]

That's the thing that is driving me crazy. Normally I don't follow these cases, because I can't. And I spent 10 days thinking, "'nah, can't be" because I didn't know that his biological parents weren't his married, custodial parents. Didn't make any sense to me that one of his parents could be so far away the day AFTER Kyron went missing. I assumed that after something like this LE was with the family 24/7, so how could one of the parents be someplace else 26 hours or so after Kyron went missing?

After I learned more details about the family it seemed less implausible, but I wasn't convinced. Still, I got to the point where I felt I had to call even if I was an idiot, and once I found out about about them going to the gym, I started to wonder if it COULD have been Kaine I saw.

I've never wanted to be wrong about something so badly. I was at a two-day event in Estacada, and the first day (Friday) my teen sat in my car and ran my battery down, and I had to be back early the next day. It's almost 90 minutes from my house. If I had not fallen into bed early and seen the 11pm news.... I would have recognized him, and no way would he have gotten away. So if I saw him, and something bad has happened since....

I want to be wrong. I REALLY want to be wrong. He needs to come home.

I have no doubts whatsoever that the police would have been with Kaine when you said you saw this person. Not only that i have no doubts at all he had other people there with him ie Terri Desiree and Tony and members of his own family.

JMO

 

[Sherbie]

rnmif, I've been giving this matter some more thought and trying to look at it from the perspective of LE.

After having spoken with you three times and knowing that one child was already missing, I don't think they would then advise Kaine -- if there were even a hint of suspicion surrounding him -- to take yet another child away from the home to be in his sole care and custody. IMO, this alone says to me that (despite the three return phone calls), they did not find your tip credible.

I suppose it's possible they could have called you back that many times because they DID know where Kaine was at the time you thought you saw him and wondered -- given the detail of your observations and the fact that you're very articulate in relating them -- if you might be someone trying to redirect the investigation. In other words, they might've called you three times in order to get better insight into you and what you were about, not because they found it even remotely possible that it was Kaine you'd seen.

No offense to you...just wondering if that might have been LE's thinking. Regardless, that they encouraged him to take the baby and leave (despite having followed up with you three times) says to me that they had been able to discount your tip by that time. So you shouldn't continue to beat yourself up any longer over not having called it in right away.

 

[debirlfan]

On the other hand, LE might know of someone who looks like Kaine...

 

[MsFacetious]

I've asked my son a few questions today, including did the boy or the adults say anything. He echoed what I remembered him saying, but added the woman told him to "get away from that boy". Which may have been part of why my antennae as a Mom went up... So much of this I just don't remember well now. Really wish I had called sooner. Wish I had videotaped myself recounting things.....

Is your son "visibly autistic"? Does he have the stereotypical mannerisms and behaviors of a child with autism?

It would not be the 1st, 5th, or 50th time I've seen/heard a parent tell their child to "get away from that boy" because they were acting "weird" due to autism or another disability. :banghead:

Even just a perfectly "normal acting" child with a visible disability will get that type of response as well.

Or it could just be that she was annoying and unfriendly. :angel:

You called two weeks after you saw him?????????????? Oh man no wonder you are stressed out.

If I thought I saw Terri, Kaine, Desiree or Tony the DAY AFTER their son disappeared...much less Kyron WITH one of them, I would probably have some orange juice with my Vodka and go to bed. I would think I was nuts!

One would logically assume that ALL of the parents would be with LE, or actively participating in the search, or holed up in their house for several days. However, we are also not used to seeing 2 out of 4 of the parents going to the gym 4 days later. Seeing that would make me think twice about thinking I was nuts.

Not everyone follows this as closely as all of us. How many other people think they saw something but discounted it because they simply have the facts mixed up, don't know them all or what they saw doesn't match up with what LE has said they know. :waitasec:

 

[MsFacetious]

Here is Kaine with Desiree side by side. They seem to be the same height IMO.

I do remember watching them walk in at that press conference. I am 99% sure Desiree WAS wearing heels with her skirt. It's also the one that Desiree said she was so angry at Terri she didn't have words...and that she told us Kyron would sometimes get upset if he couldn't get a toy to work right. Those two things stuck with me because they were very familiar to me.

You can see when they walk out that she is wearing a skirt...but you can't see her shoes.

This is the press conference: http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Horman-parents-QA-98080844.html

He seems to be more than 3" taller than Terri (just remembering them together in the PC).

If someone can find Terri's booking record from her DUI, I imagine that would have HER height on it.

I can't find it. It's not on her mugshot itself that I can see, or the bodybuilding information. I also seem to remember Kaine being asked that in an interview at some point if anyone can find that...but I know he wasn't sure about it.

I was going based on who he was standing next to for comparison.

He's built like my husband, tall and lanky. Whatever his actual height is, I don't know, though it would be cool to actually know for sure.

Skinny legs, narrow build. Not thin, but he's built like a thoroughbred, not a quarterhorse.

Also coming from a horse family.... this made me laugh. :innocent:

Also made me think "And Desiree would fit into the Arabian category."

Ironically enough... our "farm" when abbreviated to initials is DHY Arabians... so is Desiree. lol :waitasec:

 

[kytty]

rnmif---Estacada is a past Eugene isn't it? About an hour away from where TH and KH live? So a round trip there would be at least 2 hours, plus you said they were at an event, so it would be 2+ hr. trip at the very least.
The day after Kyron disappeared, especially seeing as they were with the family "most" of the day, LE would most likely be VERY aware if Kaine had up and disappeared for over 2 hours that morning after. And if LE didn't notice, I think you can bet Tony or Desiree, who were already in town, would have.

Its possible you could have seen Kyron with someone else, but I think you can rule out seeing Kyron with Kaine at that time.

I also want to wish you the best---it seems that this has been weighing heavily on you. You have done all you can do and I hope you find peace=)

 

[wondering1]

I also seem to remember Kaine being asked that in an interview at some point if anyone can find that...but I know he wasn't sure about it.

TH is 5'6"ish iirc

 

[rnmif]

rnmif, I've been giving this matter some more thought and trying to look at it from the perspective of LE.

After having spoken with you three times and knowing that one child was already missing, I don't think they would then advise Kaine -- if there were even a hint of suspicion surrounding him -- to take yet another child away from the home to be in his sole care and custody. IMO, this alone says to me that (despite the three return phone calls), they did not find your tip credible.

I suppose it's possible they could have called you back that many times because they DID know where Kaine was at the time you thought you saw him and wondered -- given the detail of your observations and the fact that you're very articulate in relating them -- if you might be someone trying to redirect the investigation. In other words, they might've called you three times in order to get better insight into you and what you were about, not because they found it even remotely possible that it was Kaine you'd seen.

No offense to you...just wondering if that might have been LE's thinking. Regardless, that they encouraged him to take the baby and leave (despite having followed up with you three times) says to me that they had been able to discount your tip by that time. So you shouldn't continue to beat yourself up any longer over not having called it in right away.

I'm having a hard time with timeline, but it was two weeks before I called MCSO, and the first call back from them was nearly a week later. The last was a week after that, at least. I'm not sure where that puts the whole timeline, but I know the third, and probably second calls came AFTER the sting operation.

I'll say this, and I'm not going to go too deeply into it, because it's still a pretty raw wound, but MCSO child... crimes division (? it's an agency where MCSO works with CPS in investigating child crime cases) investigated my granddaughter's death last year. I gave extensive evidence in that case. They also know I am a foster parent.

I will say I'm not sure how long they keep records, but the detective who was lead on my Granddaughter's death is still involved in that agency. If they had concerns about my credibility, I'd think they'd be able to check if they have any files on me. I do know from the detective there is a permanent record of some sort on my Granddaughter's death. For reasons I am not ready to elaborate, it was important to me this be done to protect future children.

That said... They still may have thought I'm not credible. Who knows. We can only speculate at this point, right?

I'll say again, I'm desperate to believe Kyron is alive and coming home, and I'll admit, I may be doing some mental gymnastics to make that happen.

 

[Haeve]

rnmif---Estacada is a past Eugene isn't it? About an hour away from where TH and KH live? So a round trip there would be at least 2 hours, plus you said they were at an event, so it would be 2+ hr. trip at the very least.
The day after Kyron disappeared, especially seeing as they were with the family "most" of the day, LE would most likely be VERY aware if Kaine had up and disappeared for over 2 hours that morning after. And if LE didn't notice, I think you can bet Tony or Desiree, who were already in town, would have.

Its possible you could have seen Kyron with someone else, but I think you can rule out seeing Kyron with Kaine at that time.

I also want to wish you the best---it seems that this has been weighing heavily on you. You have done all you can do and I hope you find peace=)

Estacada isn't near Eugene. It is about an hour from the Horman home.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...44.84808,-122.706299&spn=3.33372,7.064209&z=7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estacada,_Oregon

 

[rnmif]

Is your son "visibly autistic"? Does he have the stereotypical mannerisms and behaviors of a child with autism?

It would not be the 1st, 5th, or 50th time I've seen/heard a parent tell their child to "get away from that boy" because they were acting "weird" due to autism or another disability. :banghead:

Even just a perfectly "normal acting" child with a visible disability will get that type of response as well.

Or it could just be that she was annoying and unfriendly. :angel:




If I thought I saw Terri, Kaine, Desiree or Tony the DAY AFTER their son disappeared...much less Kyron WITH one of them, I would probably have some orange juice with my Vodka and go to bed. I would think I was nuts!

One would logically assume that ALL of the parents would be with LE, or actively participating in the search, or holed up in their house for several days. However, we are also not used to seeing 2 out of 4 of the parents going to the gym 4 days later. Seeing that would make me think twice about thinking I was nuts.

Not everyone follows this as closely as all of us. How many other people think they saw something but discounted it because they simply have the facts mixed up, don't know them all or what they saw doesn't match up with what LE has said they know. :waitasec:

No, most people don't pick up on it. And at that time, he was being very typical and deeply engrossed in his game.

And... thanks. You made another good point, we're juggling a lot these days. In fact, I have a husband and three boys, I rarely get the "wand of power", and likely wouldn't have seen the Kyron case had I not been following something else on the news, we rarely watch it.

We have so much on our plate, it was a fluke I noticed this boy, it was a fluke I saw the news. I am a person of faith, there are times I wonder if there is a reason why. In fact, I more than wonder. I pray often. I don't know how many listen to the Amy Grant song Breath of Heaven, but there are times I wonder why he chose me to see what I saw. Because there were better witnesses there, trust me. I'm the WRONG person for him to trust for this job. I keep trying to remember he has a plan, and trust that he chose me for a reason, or maybe I'm just crazy (that's possible too!).

But I can't help but feel I'm not up to whatever role I may be supposed to have in this case.

Maybe that should be the strongest sign of all that I'm wrong about what I saw. I don't know.

 

[rnmif]

TH is 5'6"ish iirc

Do you have a source for that? If so, that would put KH well over 5ft 9. Probably more like 5ft 10 or more.

I kept thinking some of the bodybuilding links would show, but my mad google skillz are failing me.

 

[Sherbie]

I'm having a hard time with timeline, but it was two weeks before I called MCSO, and the first call back from them was nearly a week later. The last was a week after that, at least. I'm not sure where that puts the whole timeline, but I know the third, and probably second calls came AFTER the sting operation.

I'll say this, and I'm not going to go too deeply into it, because it's still a pretty raw wound, but MCSO child... crimes division (? it's an agency where MCSO works with CPS in investigating child crime cases) investigated my granddaughter's death last year. I gave extensive evidence in that case. They also know I am a foster parent.

I will say I'm not sure how long they keep records, but the detective who was lead on my Granddaughter's death is still involved in that agency. If they had concerns about my credibility, I'd think they'd be able to check if they have any files on me. I do know from the detective there is a permanent record of some sort on my Granddaughter's death. For reasons I am not ready to elaborate, it was important to me this be done to protect future children.

That said... They still may have thought I'm not credible. Who knows. We can only speculate at this point, right?

I'll say again, I'm desperate to believe Kyron is alive and coming home, and I'll admit, I may be doing some mental gymnastics to make that happen.

BBM

I meant that they might not have found the information credible if they already knew where Kaine was at that time, not that they wouldn't find you a credible person.

I'm so sincerely sorry that you lost your little granddaughter.

 

[gitana1]

That's a good chunk South of Estacada, but if I DID see Kyron the day after he went missing it sure widens the search area, right? We no longer have the tight timeline. My fear is if I DID see him.... I saw him with Kaine, and Kaine seems to be acting more grief-stricken. I don't really want to think what that means... My hope would be if it's Kaine he was trying to leave Terri and did have Kyron stashed and things went further than he'd hoped and he didn't bring him home because of police involvement. But if something went wrong?

I was called back 3 times about my tip. Which may be an accident, MCSO is busy, and they've been working their posteriors off.... But.... 3 times seems to me not an accident, given that they seem to be ruling some tips out immediately? But they didn't seem terribly impressed with my tip. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it because I feel guilty.

I'd give up just about anything to have this poor kid come home. If it was him I saw.... he was unspeakably, unbearably sweet.

Wow. Good for you for reporting.
I do think, however, that LE was basically camped at the Horman house after Kyron went missing. One would think they would know where all the players were at various times.
But, if you are right, it almost sounds like the plot of Man on Fire. Scary.

 

[DairyGirl]

I would bet the farm that you did not see Kaine on June 5th. No doubt. Highly doubt that you saw Kyron, either. I think you just want him to be safe so bad that you were almost hoping you saw him. Bless you for caring and for reporting it anyway. It certainly can't hurt.

 

[rnmif]

BBM

I meant that they might not have found the information credible if they already knew where Kaine was at that time, not that they wouldn't find you a credible person.

I'm so sincerely sorry that you lost your little granddaughter.

Ah, sorry. I'm doing 20 things at once today.

Thanks too, for.... yeah.

It's part of why I feel so guilty about this. My gut told me my Granddaughter was not safe, and I let people, professionals, friends, family, the person responsible (not intentionally, thankfully) tell me I was being reactionary, I was worrying too much, yadda yadda. I didn't want to rush to judgement, and wanted to support the other person, not hurt them. And she's gone. Of course you can never help but wonder, what if I had pushed harder, fought harder....? I think that's why I can't take watching DY. I think I know all too well what's going through her head, and I would give anything to tell her that I think she's a wonderful Mother, and to stop blaming herself.

I went through this with my health issues too, and my cancer was misdiagnosed for 5 years. I keep telling myself I'm never going to let anyone make me doubt what my gut says anymore, but I have brain issues due to the autoimmune stuff, and I don't trust my own memories. I'm always sure I'm wrong, and have to piece things together.

I need to learn to trust myself. It's one thing when it affects my life, it's harder to accept if it harmed Kyron.

Again, just want him to come home.

Sorry. Back on topic. Just thought it was a good time to connect some dots... My mind goes back a lot to my GD, and "what if".

I hope this search is something promising. It probably means I'm wrong, but I hope they just find him alive, today. I pray, so much for that moment.... I have the kleenex ready.

 

[kappy50]

Ah, sorry. I'm doing 20 things at once today.

Thanks too, for.... yeah.

It's part of why I feel so guilty about this. My gut told me my Granddaughter was not safe, and I let people, professionals, friends, family, the person responsible (not intentionally, thankfully) tell me I was being reactionary, I was worrying too much, yadda yadda. I didn't want to rush to judgement, and wanted to support the other person, not hurt them. And she's gone. Of course you can never help but wonder, what if I had pushed harder, fought harder....? I think that's why I can't take watching DY. I think I know all too well what's going through her head, and I would give anything to tell her that I think she's a wonderful Mother, and to stop blaming herself.

I went through this with my health issues too, and my cancer was misdiagnosed for 5 years. I keep telling myself I'm never going to let anyone make me doubt what my gut says anymore, but I have brain issues due to the autoimmune stuff, and I don't trust my own memories. I'm always sure I'm wrong, and have to piece things together.

I need to learn to trust myself. It's one thing when it affects my life, it's harder to accept if it harmed Kyron.

Again, just want him to come home.

Sorry. Back on topic. Just thought it was a good time to connect some dots... My mind goes back a lot to my GD, and "what if".

I hope this search is something promising. It probably means I'm wrong, but I hope they just find him alive, today. I pray, so much for that moment.... I have the kleenex ready.

Ms.NR are you a veterniaran.(SP) are you a nurse ?? If you do not wish to answer, no problem

 

[kappy50]

Ah, sorry. I'm doing 20 things at once today.

Thanks too, for.... yeah.

It's part of why I feel so guilty about this. My gut told me my Granddaughter was not safe, and I let people, professionals, friends, family, the person responsible (not intentionally, thankfully) tell me I was being reactionary, I was worrying too much, yadda yadda. I didn't want to rush to judgement, and wanted to support the other person, not hurt them. And she's gone. Of course you can never help but wonder, what if I had pushed harder, fought harder....? I think that's why I can't take watching DY. I think I know all too well what's going through her head, and I would give anything to tell her that I think she's a wonderful Mother, and to stop blaming herself.

I went through this with my health issues too, and my cancer was misdiagnosed for 5 years. I keep telling myself I'm never going to let anyone make me doubt what my gut says anymore, but I have brain issues due to the autoimmune stuff, and I don't trust my own memories. I'm always sure I'm wrong, and have to piece things together.

I need to learn to trust myself. It's one thing when it affects my life, it's harder to accept if it harmed Kyron.

Again, just want him to come home.

Sorry. Back on topic. Just thought it was a good time to connect some dots... My mind goes back a lot to my GD, and "what if".

I hope this search is something promising. It probably means I'm wrong, but I hope they just find him alive, today. I pray, so much for that moment.... I have the kleenex ready.

Ms.RN are you a veterniaran.(SP) are you a nurse ?? If you do not wish to answer, no problem