Possible NEW Suspects In JonBenet Ramsey Case?

[UKGuy]

I don't feel either was put there as staging. I agree with your suggestion that the Barbie DOLL in the box may have been unwrapped while looking for the panties intended for Jenny. The doll may have been intended for Jenny too- even though she was 12, plenty of girls get dolls like that. The Holiday Barbie line is intended for collectors or to build a collection for a child. They are not usually "played with" (taken out of the box and redressed in other clothes, hair brushed out, etc. ) They are usually kept as display dolls. I'd be interested to know if there was another 1996 Holiday Barbie under the tree for JB. I can't imagine Patsy getting one for her niece and not for JB. If there was a second doll like that, it would lend more weight to the one in the wineceller having been unwrapped in the search for the panties.
As far as the Barbie NIGHTGOWN, I still feel it came out of the dryer accidentally, stuck to the white blanket by static cling. It seems to be a very pale pink, and didn't even show up in many photos of the blanket. It was dark, and whoever put JB in there may have been using a flashlight rather than turning the light on in the room.

DeeDee249,
You have to presume JonBenet might have a Holiday Barbie, I'll bet she had most of the others? For me at least this is one topic that I have never seen covered systematically, possibly because it cannot be done?

No mention of buying a doll for JonBenet or Jenny in the interviews. Nothing about a doll from John when interviewed about his participation in the Christmas gift preparation etc.

I'm going to assume the doll originated from an opened gift otherwise surely LEA would have asked some pointed questions? Also lets assume the doll and packaging have been tested for fingerprints, touch dna results might be interesting? Even after all that why did Patsy not comment during her interview oh that's Jenny's gift, why is that open etc?

Re: nightgown. Static cling is a possibility, but it seems a weak explanation, particulary when we know that the blanket was folded then wrapped around JonBenet. Using, lets say, a flashlight how could you miss the gown as you finsish of JonBenet's redressing?


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[Chris_Texas]

The ransom note has an unusual use of "and hence" that is much less common than the Barzee usage.

I don't know how you get around the fact that Barzee's personality is completely different than the ransom note writer (who is used to being in charge and giving orders).

Not that this matters, but it reads to me (in my inexpert opinion) not as someone used to being in charge, but as someone PRETENDING that they are used to being in charge. A ransom note written by someone actually familiar with directing people would be simple and to the point, likely written the way such orders would be spoken.

"We have your daughter. We do not want to hurt her. This is a BUSINESS transaction. Get $118,000 in the following denominations.... Wait by the phone. Someone will contact you tomorrow with further instructions. Follow these directions and you will have her back, unharmed, by tomorrow night."

They would NOT talk like a cliche'd movie villain or a romance novelist:

"Sir, read the following missive and take heed of the warnings contained therein. I represent a super secret terrorist faction interesting in global conquest and destroying all that is good in the world. While I respect you personally as a fine gentleman of uncommonly good character and outstanding fashion sense, your company has attracted the attention of.. etc"

 

[AKWILKS]

A 1996 Holiday Barbie doll on the basement floor near JonBenet's body? The colors do not quite match? No record of anyone in the family giving this as a gift? Could this have possibly been brought by the killer as a lure, a way to comfort and soothe JonBenet?

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
You have to presume JonBenet might have a Holiday Barbie, I'll bet she had most of the others? For me at least this is one topic that I have never seen covered systematically, possibly because it cannot be done?

No mention of buying a doll for JonBenet or Jenny in the interviews. Nothing about a doll from John when interviewed about his participation in the Christmas gift preparation etc.

I'm going to assume the doll originated from an opened gift otherwise surely LEA would have asked some pointed questions? Also lets assume the doll and packaging have been tested for fingerprints, touch dna results might be interesting? Even after all that why did Patsy not comment during her interview oh that's Jenny's gift, why is that open etc?

Re: nightgown. Static cling is a possibility, but it seems a weak explanation, particulary when we know that the blanket was folded then wrapped around JonBenet. Using, lets say, a flashlight how could you miss the gown as you finsish of JonBenet's redressing?


.

With the lax investigative work on this case, I don't think we can assume that the doll box or gift boxes found in the WC were tested for anything.
When we see that photo of the pink garment on the white blanket, it was taken after JB was removed from the blanket, and looks to me like it is in a heap. The pink nightie could have been on the underside of the blanket and not noticed as the blanket was lain on the floor before JB was placed on top of it. I am remembering JR's comment to police as he was shown that very photo- he said "that wasn't supposed to be there". As if the dead child in the white blanket WAS supposed to be there (because he put them there).

 

[Chris_Texas]

A 1996 Holiday Barbie doll on the basement floor near JonBenet's body? The colors do not quite match? No record of anyone in the family giving this as a gift? Could this have possibly been brought by the killer as a lure, a way to comfort and soothe JonBenet?

Seems unlikely to me. Unless this "intruder" was well known by JB a toy like this would hardly work as an effective lure, and even then it's unlikely (someone so well known that they would not raise alarm bells showing up in JB's room in the middle of the night would hardly need bait, nor would they be interested in kidnapping her anyway).

Even assuming this was a kidnapping gone wrong (and that's a serious stretch) it is safe to assume the guy did not plan on TALKING her into coming with him. He did not break into the home clutching toys like some demented Santa.

 

[vlpate]

When they announced John Mark Carr was the killer of JonBenet, I knew, without a doubt, he was not the killer. No matter what evidence they thought they had, even when the Boulder DA held out to the very last minute...I and everyone who followed the case from the beginning, KNEW, there will never be proof of an intruder.

Burke Ramsey was protected by his parents and their lawyer for a very long time. He is not protected by them any longer - he's an adult. There's your A&E angle AK one no one has ever had the (expletive deleted), to pursue. The answer to who killed JonBenet lived in that house on Christmas Eve. Hence, or and hence, at the end of the day....nothing else has ever, nor will ever makes sense.

This case got so crazy and took so many turns, it would not surprise me to find out John is trying to clear his son's name for good before he is no longer around to protect him - and what better way than to implicate two mentally ill individuals?

No one really "cares" about this case anymore - Aphrodite Jones threw out an alarming number of false statements about the case and she made headlines - and no one but Tricia Griffith and a handful of others even made a fuss.

I'm sure Jon Benet has moved on:seeya: Why not let her just go in peace?

 

[AKWILKS]

If someone I cared about was murdered, I hope I would never give up trying to find justice, or at least an answer. If I was ever murdered, I hope someone would feel the same way about me.

 

[Chris_Texas]

[SNIP]...I'm sure Jon Benet has moved on:seeya: Why not let her just go in peace?

Speaking for myself...

If justice is possible it is our task to search for it.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

When they announced John Mark Carr was the killer of JonBenet, I knew, without a doubt, he was not the killer. No matter what evidence they thought they had, even when the Boulder DA held out to the very last minute...I and everyone who followed the case from the beginning, KNEW, there will never be proof of an intruder.

Burke Ramsey was protected by his parents and their lawyer for a very long time. He is not protected by them any longer - he's an adult. There's your A&E angle AK one no one has ever had the (expletive deleted), to pursue. The answer to who killed JonBenet lived in that house on Christmas Eve. Hence, or and hence, at the end of the day....nothing else has ever, nor will ever makes sense.

This case got so crazy and took so many turns, it would not surprise me to find out John is trying to clear his son's name for good before he is no longer around to protect him - and what better way than to implicate two mentally ill individuals?

No one really "cares" about this case anymore - Aphrodite Jones threw out an alarming number of false statements about the case and she made headlines - and no one but Tricia Griffith and a handful of others even made a fuss.

I'm sure Jon Benet has moved on:seeya: Why not let her just go in peace?

Why would you come on this forum to tell us to "move on" and to stop discussing this case because "no one cares about it anymore"? There's obviously going to be discussion about the biggest unsolved murder of the past 30 years on a true crime forum. Why don't you post your comment on every forum here except for Caylee's forum? After all, that's the only case that's in the national news at the moment, so obviously no one cares about the other cases.

 

[vlpate]

Speaking for myself...

If justice is possible it is our task to search for it.

My point is if no one is going to finally look at the obvious answer now that he is of age, why bother? Trust me when I tell you there were many people who took on the task for many years of trying to find justice for JonBenet and I was one of them. People lost interest because the Ramseys never wanted to cooperate in finding their own daughter's killer, the case went cold until Carr, and those of us who felt the Ramseys were the only suspects, knew he was a dud. Went cold again...and now this. I don't believe for a moment Mitchell and Barzee had anything to do with Jon Benet's death - that doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see it solved - I just gave up a long time ago.

 

[vlpate]

Why would you come on this forum to tell us to "move on" and to stop discussing this case because "no one cares about it anymore"? There's obviously going to be discussion about the biggest unsolved murder of the past 30 years on a true crime forum. Why don't you post your comment on every forum here except for Caylee's forum? After all, that's the only case that's in the national news at the moment, so obviously no one cares about the other cases.

I didn't say to move on, it's not my place to tell anyone to move on. Please don't misquote me.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say about my posting everywhere but the Caylee forum...do you know me? I can't imagine that you do so I'd appreciate it if you would not make assumptions, hawkeye.

Peace

 

[vlpate]

If someone I cared about was murdered, I hope I would never give up trying to find justice, or at least an answer. If I was ever murdered, I hope someone would feel the same way about me.

Unfortunately the people who should have cared about her the most, never spent one second of their lives trying to find out who killed their daughter and sister, not one second. The people who cared used their substantial resources protecting themselves from scrutiny and suing anyone who even hinted their son was involved.

If you want a story AK, investigate the one person who knows what happened that night. I've been to the house in Boulder, not the same at all as Elizabeth Smart's house...there are no woods to escape into, it's a neighborhood and the houses are very close together.

Not only that, Mitchell wanted wives, he didn't want ransom. Why would he kill his new wife before he ever got her out of the house? I believe he molested his children, but I don't recall reading he strangled or duct taped them or Elizabeth Smart.

The one thing that has always made me firm in my belief that someone in the house killed JonBenet is the fact that an intruder/pedophile/mormon wack job, would NOT leave the ransom note after killing her. An intruder would have taken the note with him along with the rest of the duct tape and rope (TIC).

It is obvious, AK, that you have spent a lot of time on your Mitchell/Barzee theory - and that is commendable. Before you developed this theory though, hundreds of people spent 24/7 for years, investigating, hashing out, snooping, pouring over every shred of evidence and theory - lots of blood, sweat, and tears. and it's all on the forumsforjustice forum in the archives, court documents, interviews, depositions... FFJ archives and acandyrose has everything that was researched and dissected, it is a great place to start. You referred to Judge Carnes earlier - most of her ruling was based on a bully defense attorney and not on evidence. The ancillary (sp), hair, the palm print, the boot print...from what I remember, it's all been accounted for.

As for Amy - I'm pretty sure at some point it was revealed that her boyfriend was the intruder, I could be wrong though - been a long time and there was so much going on.

Were you the AK from the old Justice Watch forums in '98?

Any reference to Burke Ramsey in this post is purely my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of this forum.

 

[vlpate]

I
Mitchell came equipped with duct tape to cover the mouths of his victims and rope cords to bind them.

If you type 'victim + duct tape and rope' into a google search, you get 360,000 hits. Seems duct tape and rope to a killer/pedophile/rapist/home invader is just tools of the trade. There was rope and duct tape in the Ramsey's basement from boxes and christmas trees they had unwrapped.

I believe some of the evidence walked out the door in Burkes backpack and some evidence went out in Patsy's purse and fur coat.

 

[UKGuy]

When they announced John Mark Carr was the killer of JonBenet, I knew, without a doubt, he was not the killer. No matter what evidence they thought they had, even when the Boulder DA held out to the very last minute...I and everyone who followed the case from the beginning, KNEW, there will never be proof of an intruder.

Burke Ramsey was protected by his parents and their lawyer for a very long time. He is not protected by them any longer - he's an adult. There's your A&E angle AK one no one has ever had the (expletive deleted), to pursue. The answer to who killed JonBenet lived in that house on Christmas Eve. Hence, or and hence, at the end of the day....nothing else has ever, nor will ever makes sense.

This case got so crazy and took so many turns, it would not surprise me to find out John is trying to clear his son's name for good before he is no longer around to protect him - and what better way than to implicate two mentally ill individuals?

No one really "cares" about this case anymore - Aphrodite Jones threw out an alarming number of false statements about the case and she made headlines - and no one but Tricia Griffith and a handful of others even made a fuss.

I'm sure Jon Benet has moved on:seeya: Why not let her just go in peace?

vlpate,

No one really "cares" about this case anymore

Well I do. On this basis I'll continue to discuss the Pro's and Cons of the various theories long into the future.

Part of the appeal of this case is that, conceptually, its easy to grasp e.g. its either an Inside or Outside Job. Which boils down to IDI or RDI.

RDI presumes three suspects: JR, PR, or BR. One is dead and one heading in that direction. In all of the theories and crazy stories surrounding the JonBenet case, one constant remains, Patsy colluded in whatever process occurred the night JonBenet was killed.

Since I am satisfied that there was an institutional cover up of JonBenet's death, involving members of the legal profession, police and media. This may have happened to obstruct or/and assist justice.

It follows that Burke Ramsey is an important witness, particularly if it is ever announced that he was not subject to reporting restrictions due to his sisters death.

Over here in the UK there is a Watergate event taking place relating to News Corp and all the various alleged fixing that has occurred over the years. They said it would never be called to account since News Corp is the world's most powerful media organisation, because the police were involved, because politicians at senior level were involved. Yet this past week despite the best efforts of the main players to kill the story off, the lid has been blown off what some have referred to as a sewer/cesspit of criminality, and apparently with worse to come.

So in the JonBenet case it may transpire that some unknown piece of information links either JR or BR to JonBenet's case, and since its now a cold case, it will be reopened.

JR might even catch a dose of Catholicism and repent publicly on his death bed.

BR may yet speak publicly about events all those years ago, if he is innocent he has nothing to lose.

I'm sure Jon Benet has moved on:seeya: Why not let her just go in peace?

Precisely because JonBenet was never afforded the luxury of a peaceful departure.


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[UKGuy]

With the lax investigative work on this case, I don't think we can assume that the doll box or gift boxes found in the WC were tested for anything.
When we see that photo of the pink garment on the white blanket, it was taken after JB was removed from the blanket, and looks to me like it is in a heap. The pink nightie could have been on the underside of the blanket and not noticed as the blanket was lain on the floor before JB was placed on top of it. I am remembering JR's comment to police as he was shown that very photo- he said "that wasn't supposed to be there". As if the dead child in the white blanket WAS supposed to be there (because he put them there).

DeeDee249,

With the lax investigative work on this case, I don't think we can assume that the doll box or gift boxes found in the WC were tested for anything.

I agree. I'd love to be able to assume since the doll was a crime-scene object it would automatically be tested for fingerprints e.g. JonBenet's?

My understanding is that the white blanket was folded in half and then JonBenet was placed onto it, with it then being wrapped around her. Papoose style as JR remarked. No doubt given the crazyness of the situation the pink nightgown may have adhered to the underside of the blanket and been missed by the stager. Somehow given the attention to detail of items such as the size-12's, wiping JonBenet down, redressing her, wiping the flashlight inside and out etc. This forensic awareness makes me think that the nighgown did not arrive in the wine-cellar by chance?


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[Chrishope]

...


No one really "cares" about this case anymore - Aphrodite Jones threw out an alarming number of false statements about the case and she made headlines - and no one but Tricia Griffith and a handful of others even made a fuss.

I'm sure Jon Benet has moved on:seeya: Why not let her just go in peace?

It might be more accurate to say that the mainstream media doesn't care about the case - and never really did, except to the extent that sensational new sells papers.

The constant repetition of wrong "facts" makes it obvious that most of the media isn't interested in factual investigative journalism.

 

[vlpate]

It might be more accurate to say that the mainstream media doesn't care about the case - and never really did, except to the extent that sensational new sells papers.

The constant repetition of wrong "facts" makes it obvious that most of the media isn't interested in factual investigative journalism.

You are right, and that is what I meant....the main stream media and the family doesn't care anymore.

 

[SunnieRN]

Unfortunately the people who should have cared about her the most, never spent one second of their lives trying to find out who killed their daughter and sister, not one second. The people who cared used their substantial resources protecting themselves from scrutiny and suing anyone who even hinted their son was involved.

If you want a story AK, investigate the one person who knows what happened that night. I've been to the house in Boulder, not the same at all as Elizabeth Smart's house...there are no woods to escape into, it's a neighborhood and the houses are very close together.

Not only that, Mitchell wanted wives, he didn't want ransom. Why would he kill his new wife before he ever got her out of the house? I believe he molested his children, but I don't recall reading he strangled or duct taped them or Elizabeth Smart.

The one thing that has always made me firm in my belief that someone in the house killed JonBenet is the fact that an intruder/pedophile/mormon wack job, would NOT leave the ransom note after killing her. An intruder would have taken the note with him along with the rest of the duct tape and rope (TIC).

It is obvious, AK, that you have spent a lot of time on your Mitchell/Barzee theory - and that is commendable. Before you developed this theory though, hundreds of people spent 24/7 for years, investigating, hashing out, snooping, pouring over every shred of evidence and theory - lots of blood, sweat, and tears. and it's all on the forumsforjustice forum in the archives, court documents, interviews, depositions... FFJ archives and acandyrose has everything that was researched and dissected, it is a great place to start. You referred to Judge Carnes earlier - most of her ruling was based on a bully defense attorney and not on evidence. The ancillary (sp), hair, the palm print, the boot print...from what I remember, it's all been accounted for.

As for Amy - I'm pretty sure at some point it was revealed that her boyfriend was the intruder, I could be wrong though - been a long time and there was so much going on.

Were you the AK from the old Justice Watch forums in '98?

Any reference to Burke Ramsey in this post is purely my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of this forum.

Reading your first post, I misunderstood your feelings. I agree that the R's had no interest in the case truly being solved. I also believe that Burke has the answers to everything.

As for Mitchell and Barzee, totally agree. Not his style in comparison to his other crimes.

I heard and read a few accounts that the intruder at Amys was believed to be a boyfriend, as she did not try to alert her Mother or get away. Also the alarm system had been turned off.

I hope you stick around and help us out!!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This case has been on AC 360, The Today Show, Good Morning America, Nancy Grace, the Joy Behar Show, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, AOL News, HLN, AMC, ID, etc in the past 9 months. Do you know how many missing people don't get any media coverage? Or how many cold cases there are where just getting the local news to mention the case is considered an enormous feat? I will never understand people who complain about how JonBenet's case isn't in the news everyday anymore. How spoiled are we from the 1990s media coverage?

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<mod snip> First, you tell us that, "No one cares about this case anymore". Did you ignore the thousands of posts about this case? That's a direct contrast to your "No one" claim. Then you said that, "JonBenet has moved on. Why not let her go in peace?" You have no idea how JonBenet is feeling, wherever she is. If JonBenet has moved on, as you claim, then she is at peace, and us discussing this case won't make a difference. Many of us believe that this case will never be solved, but we still discuss it. There are lots of people who still discuss JFK, Marilyn Monroe, and Jack the Ripper. We are probably less likely to ever know the truth in those cases, yet that doesn't stop discussion about them. A case shouldn't be abandoned by everyone as soon as it becomes a cold case.

No one here cares if this case isn't in the news everyday anymore, if it might not ever be solved, or that the family doesn't talk about it anymore. None of those factors is going to stop us from discussing this case.

 

[AKWILKS]

For newcomers to this thread, I strongly advise reading my first post, and read all the posts after, or you will not understand the evidence.

"Why would he kill his new wife before he ever got her out of the house? I believe he molested his children, but I don't recall reading he strangled or duct taped them or Elizabeth Smart."

Smart awoke with a knife against her throat - had she jumped up or resisted, she would have been killed. It was also reported Mitchell picked up one of his children and threw the child into the bed headboard.

Smart was bound with cord, as was JonBenet. Smart testified Mitchell said if she made noise he would "duct tape my mouth shut." JonBenet was found with duct tape over her mouth.

The Ramsey home was within a half mile of both the UC campus and Chautauqua Park. Beyond that were the foothills of the front of the Rocky Mountains. Mitchell and Barzee had stayed on the campus of Stanford Univeristy, and parks, and the Santa Cruz mountains.

I understand the theories about Burke. But the new DNA evidence shows male DNA in a blooddrop on JonBenet's panties, and the same male DNA on both sides of her longjohns. on the sides, where a hand would go to pull them down. That male DNA on two garments in three places is not from any Ramsey. I don't dismiss theories of Ramsey involvement but I say intruder theories should not be dismissed without examination.