Possible Victim: Fire Island Jane Doe, UP9098, found Davis Park Apr 1996 & Ocean Parkway Apr 2011 - Karen Vergata

[Hotpotato]

From the sounds of things if it says DNA testing complete for both then they have both been entered in CODIS and a match would be generated if there was one through CODIS,

Well that's excellent to know. I mean that would significantly cut down potential matches found on namus

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I'm really confused and hoping someone has the answer. If both the UP and the MP have DNA entered, does that automatically mean they're been cross checked and excluded? Or would comparison require additional steps?

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The answer to that is YES and NO from what I've read. You have to remember that NamUs and CODIS are 2 separate databases. So, just because DNA testing is complete and in NamUs, doesn't necessarily mean the MP has been checked against CODIS. My understanding is that it has to read "DNA testing complete and entered". I believe the entered means it has been entered into CODIS.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Hotpotato]

.
The answer to that is YES and NO from what I've read. You have to remember that NamUs and CODIS are 2 separate databases. So, just because DNA testing is complete and in NamUs, doesn't necessarily mean the MP has been checked against CODIS. My understanding is that it has to read "DNA testing complete and entered". I believe the entered means it has been entered into CODIS.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

So then namus doesn't have its own database that new DNA is ran against for potential matches when they're entered?

 

[WesternArtist]

.
The answer to that is YES and NO from what I've read. You have to remember that NamUs and CODIS are 2 separate databases. So, just because DNA testing is complete and in NamUs, doesn't necessarily mean the MP has been checked against CODIS. My understanding is that it has to read "DNA testing complete and entered". I believe the entered means it has been entered into CODIS.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

That is how I understand it too. I'm still confused about the listed "rule outs" though. Since FI Jane Doe doesn't have any I looked at Manorville JD in NamUS. For her DNA it says "Sample submitted - Tests complete." (This is different from "DNA testing complete and entered" though) Both of Manorville JD's listed rule outs, Sandra Sollie and Colleen Voitik McHugh also say "Sample submitted - Tests complete." So, does this mean that whose listed as ruled or for each Unidentified is completely arbitrary? Or does it only matter if it says "DNA testing complete and entered"? For Mary Kopacz it says "Sample submitted - Complete tests" a slight variation... If it's all up to the LE agency investigating to update things IMO this is a huge problem.

IMO either way this doesn't really change what we need to do. I still plan to submit every viable match I find, regardless of how their DNA is listed. I don't want to bombard LE or NamUs with mindless submissions for the sake of it but at a certain point with enough submissions wouldn't there be an incentive for LE to update things in NamUS -to save themselves time? Should we be submitting each possible match to both NamUs and SC since there is possibly a lack of communication there? Maybe someone with more insider LE knowledge can correct my thinking...

 

[gwaterjetski]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2757dfct.html

Kelley Zanon

I'm Greg and I approved this message.

 

[gwaterjetski]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1539dfct.html

April Dawn Pennington

I'm Greg and I approved this message.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

So then namus doesn't have its own database that new DNA is ran against for potential matches when they're entered?

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NamUs doesn't have the DNA, the DNA is submitted directly to CODIS as I understand it. NamUs is notified by people working with the family and/or the family itself and sometimes LE then updates NamUs database to show it has been submitted to CODIS. As I understand anyone can enter a MP in NamUS that has reported the MP to LE. I could be wrong.

 

[gwaterjetski]

This one sound kind of interesting:


The Doe Network:*
Case File 2632DFPA

Karen Denise Wells*
Missing since April 12, 1994 from Carlisle, Middlesex Township, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania*
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: September 22, 1970Age at Time of Disappearance: 23 years oldHeight and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6"; 115-120 lbs.Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blond, below-shoulder length hair; green-blue eyes. Wears prescription glasses.Marks, Scars: Circle scar on forearm, ears pierced.Dentals: AvailableDNA: AvailableFingerprints: Available

Circumstances of Disappearance*
Denise Wells, a single mother of Haskell, Oklahoma, was traveling cross-country in April 1994 to to visit with a childhood friend in New Jersey. She dropped off her son at her parents' home April 10 before she left on the trip. She told her mother she was going to visit a high school friend who used to live in Haskell and planned to be back in about four days.*
Ms. Wells' family was not worried about the length of the trip because she had driven long distances when she lived in South Dakota.*

She checked into the Pike Motel in Middlesex Township, outside Carlisle, and asked for directions to McDonald's, at about*20.00.*

The last time anyone heard from Ms. Wells was when she called her friend in New Jersey about 19.30*April 12. She called her friend to tell her she was not going to make it to New Jersey and made plans for the friend to drive to the hotel the next day. Ms. Wells also told her friend she was going to go to a McDonald's restaurant for dinner, and then return to the motel to sleep.*

Wells' disappearance was discovered when her friend arrived at the Pike Motel early on April 13 to meet Denise as they had*planned. There was no answer at the door of Denise's room. When entering the room, they found Wells' belongings, apparently untouched. Beds were undisturbed. There was no other sign of a struggle. The room key was still there.*
The friend immediately filed a missing person report with Middlesex Township police.*

Her white, Plymouth Acclaim, rented in Tulsa, was found abandoned in a rural part of Perry County, near New Germantown, along Route 274, early in the morning of April 13. Motorists had stopped and tried to turn on the hazard lights, but the battery was dead.*
Out of gas, the car appeared to have stopped in its tracks in the road's westbound lane. It bore several scratches and was spattered with mud. The passenger's and driver's side doors were standing open.*

Wells' change purse, with cash still inside, was found in a nearby ditch. There were no signs of a struggle inside the car. Investigators found some french fries in the car along with maps, a pair of shoes and empty soda bottles.*
State Route 274 runs through the Tuscarora State Forest near New Germantown in the western end of Toboyne Township, Perry County. Several hunting cabins are in the area just west of Conococheague Mountain. Police combed the area with helicopters and dogs, but turned up no sign of the missing woman.*

A time line pieced together from witness accounts and telephone logs places Wells as far east as Schaefferstown in Lebanon County and Bernville in Berks County before she apparently doubled back to the Carlisle area.*
Odometer readings from Wells' rental car showed the car traveled 700 miles more than the distance from Oklahoma to Carlisle.*
Denise had a forgery conviction from South Dakota, where she apparently went to live with her biological father for a short period. She returned, pregnant, to Haskell sometime in 1992 to give birth to her son and raise him in familiar surroundings. Life as an unemployed, single mother was tough, but Denise seemed to be handling it. And she loved motherhood.*

Foul play is suspected.

Investigators*
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

Middlesex Township Police*
717-249-7191*
--*
PA State Police*
717-249-2121

Agency Case Number: H02-0769858

NCIC Number: M-726660373*



I'm Greg and I approved this message.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

That is how I understand it too. I'm still confused about the listed "rule outs" though. Since FI Jane Doe doesn't have any I looked at Manorville JD in NamUS. For her DNA it says "Sample submitted - Tests complete." (This is different from "DNA testing complete and entered" though) Both of Manorville JD's listed rule outs, Sandra Sollie and Colleen Voitik McHugh also say "Sample submitted - Tests complete." So, does this mean that whose listed as ruled or for each Unidentified is completely arbitrary? Or does it only matter if it says "DNA testing complete and entered"? For Mary Kopacz it says "Sample submitted - Complete tests" a slight variation... If it's all up to the LE agency investigating to update things IMO this is a huge problem.

IMO either way this doesn't really change what we need to do. I still plan to submit every viable match I find, regardless of how their DNA is listed. I don't want to bombard LE or NamUs with mindless submissions for the sake of it but at a certain point with enough submissions wouldn't there be an incentive for LE to update things in NamUS -to save themselves time? Should we be submitting each possible match to both NamUs and SC since there is possibly a lack of communication there? Maybe someone with more insider LE knowledge can correct my thinking...

.
I believe the rule outs come from specific requests to compare MP's to UID's. For instance, in this case, FI Jane Doe can be compared by NamUs personnel based upon fingerprints and/or dental to trigger a rule out. I suspect this happens when LE doesn't specifically add a particular exclusioni to NamUS.

But to be clear, I sent an email back to them asking if they could clarify the process, so we don't inundate them unnecessarily.

 

[Hotpotato]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2757dfct.html

Kelley Zanon

I'm Greg and I approved this message.

This is very, very good.

 

[Armchair-reader]

It sounds like the problem with VICAP. You have one of the greatest resources ever created but it won't work it Law Enforcement isn't willing to use it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[scotiansleuth]

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NamUs doesn't have the DNA, the DNA is submitted directly to CODIS as I understand it. NamUs is notified by people working with the family and/or the family itself and sometimes LE then updates NamUs database to show it has been submitted to CODIS. As I understand anyone can enter a MP in NamUS that has reported the MP to LE. I could be wrong.

Because anyone can enter data into NamUs the DNA is entered as follows according to the user guide. I am not sure how it gets to CODIS from the testing facility or if that is something that is automated.


"If you have had a DNA sample collected from the missing
individual or a family member of the missing person, please enter
that information into the DNA – Family Reference Sample form.
When you select ‘Complete’ from the DNA Status drop‐down
menu, the form will expand to provide data fields for the DNA
information that you can find on your DNA Analysis Report (Learn
more about DNA analysis.) To complete this form:
• Select the Relationship from the drop‐down box
• Check whether the sample was a mitochondrial DNA sample
(mtDNA), or a nuclear DNA (nucDNA) sample
• Select the testing facility
• Enter the Reference number for the sample."

 

[DaisyChains]

Thank You Greg for posting Kelley as well. I posted her a few days ago, but people didn't think she looked like the Jane Doe. I tend to think she still needs to be looked into. I'm so glad you also think this as well. HotPotato also sees a resemblence. I have been sitting on my hands in regard to submitting her b/c I wanted opinions, but I think I should go with my gut and send her in already. I think she is such a good potential match given her geographic location and the time she went missing.

I also think it is strange the police report Flyers from CT list her as missing in 2006 when the websites list her as missing in 1996.

 

[gwaterjetski]

Thank You Greg for posting Kelley as well. I posted her a few days ago, but people didn't think she looked like the Jane Doe. I tend to think she still needs to be looked into. I'm so glad you also think this as well. HotPotato also sees a resemblence. I have been sitting on my hands in regard to submitting her b/c I wanted opinions, but I think I should go with my gut and send her in already. I think she is such a good potential match given her geographic location and the time she went missing.

I also think it is strange the police report Flyers from CT list her as missing in 2006 when the websites list her as missing in 1996.

I think so too. I feel like we really need to widen the search and maybe look at older missing persons too. Someone somewhere has to be missing this girl.

Sent from my XT1093

 

[DaisyChains]

Sent in Kelley Zanon as a possible match to Namus. I think searching for missing persons in Connecticut is important as we know 2 of LISKS known victims in burlap, Maureen and Megan, had ties to CT. Maybe some of the unknown victims before also had ties to CT. And if the tattoo artist for Peaches ends up being a valid lead she had ties to CT, too. Just a theory!

Prayers we find out who Fire Island Jane Doe was. Someone held her when she was a baby and thought she was beautiful. She had a purpose in this world. She still has a purpose.

 

[gwaterjetski]

Sent in Kelley Zanon as a possible match to Namus.

Prayers we find out who Fire Island Jane Doe was. Someone held her when she was a baby and thought she was beautiful. She had a purpose in this world. She still has a purpose.

Thank you for doing that. I don't know how to do that yet. I agree that she is loved and missed. We need to find whoever did this.

Sent from my XT1093

 

[Hotpotato]

The dates are a few days off but she wasn't actually reported missing until two years later.

Scars on left leg
Transient lifestyle

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/solensky_dawn.html

 

[Hotpotato]

Have we discussed dawn holt before?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/holt_dawn.html

 

[gwaterjetski]

The dates are a few days off but she wasn't actually reported missing until two years later.

Scars on left leg
Transient lifestyle

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/solensky_dawn.html

Great work. We need more sleuthers to look at these. The more eyes for confirmation the better. After I look so long it gets hard up tell. A lot of these fit.

Sent from my XT1093

 

[scotiansleuth]

Have we discussed dawn holt before?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/holt_dawn.html

She's been submitted, everyone who has been submitted is listed in the forum. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?326826-Submissions-*NO-DISCUSSION*