Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[DS2021]

It's all msm. That's what counts.

As far as tos goes yeah. But as far as people determining credibility, it depends on how credible they feel JR is

 

[Warwick7]

As far as tos goes yeah. But as far as people determining credibility, it depends on how credible they feel JR is

M00 it is a moot point. The second autopsy showed a hole in her neck...

 

[FergusMcDuck]

M00 it is a moot point. The second autopsy showed a hole in her neck...

So did the first one. John Ray is the only one who claims it was drilled.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

M00 it is a moot point. The second autopsy showed a hole in her neck...

No one involved in the first or 2nd "autopsy" said any such thing as "showed a hole in her neck". Her remains were skeletal.
An attorney is hardly qualified to speak on or interpret conditions of skeletal remains.

 

[snarast]

That’s the thing, he didn’t kill every sex worker he came in contact with. For instance, I don’t believe Amber Costello was an intended victim… not initially. He went to her house for a “date”, exposing everything about his identity. Why kill her? But Amber and her roommates did that little scam and it pissed RH off. Then he sent her those texts “that wasn’t very nice” when you know he was thinking “I’ll make you pay! You don’t know who you’re messing with”.
As for Shannan running out into the marsh, whether she was high or having a mental episode, something about her drowning just doesn’t seem right. Her clothes were scattered. That could be a mental episode. You know how when people are freezing they strip off their clothes? Why would you strip off your clothes if you’re freezing? It’s a known phenomenon. It’s weird and makes no sense but they do it. So, a mental episode could have caused her to do that.
Being face up and drowning? I don’t know if there would have been enough water in the area for her to have done that.
I don’t think she is an RH victim. With everything else that happened with her that morning, it’s really hard for me to put him into the equation. Had he met her before? Possible but unrelated to the other girls. Did she OD? It can’t be ruled out. Toxicology meant nothing as she was a known cocaine user and the drug test came back negative. She should have had something in her system. Was someone else around that killed Shannan? Maybe. But if she was murdered, it wasn’t random. Someone knew her, knew where she was, followed her.

Or RH just watched a sexy web cam feed supplied by Brewer and decided to go there.

 

[Warwick7]

No one involved in the first or 2nd "autopsy" said any such thing as "showed a hole in her neck". Her remains were skeletal.
An attorney is hardly qualified to speak on or interpret conditions of skeletal remains.

BBM
You forgot to add M00, because that is what it is, your opinion, on who is qualified.

"The second autopsy found that Shannan "met a violent end, that she was strangled," Ray said in a previous interview.
Ray was there when world-renowned medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden performed the second autopsy.
"When we looked at the bones, we were able to discern that the very small, significant hyoid bone in the neck, was cracked on one edge," Ray said.
Baden's autopsy "indicated that she did not die of natural causes and it was consistent with homicide," Ray said.
Ray also pointed out that there was a hole at the base of Shannan's hyoid bone that was found in the second autopsy.
"It appears be to something was either drilled or pushed through that bone.
"And we couldn't determine what that was, but it was highly unusual," the lawyer said."

search.app

 

[snarast]

It's possible.

WRT drowning, remember SG's body was found lying face-up. Any water in the grass wouldn't have been deep enough to drown her in that location.

Also, remember that SG was found very close to the location she disappeared from.

Yet LE found 10 victims further away before they found her. How do you explain that?

It has been suggested that this particular marsh where SG was found is painful to walk in - leading to that winter clad LE wouldn’t walk there for fear of injuries.

But an all but naked tiny girl would?

This is devoid of all logic IMHO.

I think we can agree that SG was frightened - she feared pain. That marsh was sheer torture to walk through it seems.

 

[Warwick7]

So did the first one. John Ray is the only one who claims it was drilled.

Where is your link proving it was in the first one?

"Ray also pointed out that there was a hole at the base of Shannan's hyoid bone that was found in the second autopsy."

search.app

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Where is your link proving it was in the first one?

"Ray also pointed out that there was a hole at the base of Shannan's hyoid bone that was found in the second autopsy."

search.app

Here is the scanned autopsy report. Page 30 of the pdf (page 4 of the report, second paragraph).

 

[Warwick7]

Here is the scanned autopsy report. Page 30 of the pdf (page 4 of the report, second paragraph).

No link provided.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

No link provided.

Link didn't post first. It's there now.

 

[Warwick7]

Link didn't post first. It's there now.

Found the colored "Here."

 

[Vern]

Found the colored "Here."

The link works for me.

 

[Warwick7]

The link works for me.

That's what I just said.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Or RH just watched a sexy web cam feed supplied by Brewer and decided to go there.

Still not his style. He liked to take his time. He liked the power of having them captive. I highly doubt he was into chasing after a terrified prostitute running through the marshland in the dark.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
You forgot to add M00, because that is what it is, your opinion, on who is qualified.

"The second autopsy found that Shannan "met a violent end, that she was strangled," Ray said in a previous interview.
Ray was there when world-renowned medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden performed the second autopsy.
"When we looked at the bones, we were able to discern that the very small, significant hyoid bone in the neck, was cracked on one edge," Ray said.
Baden's autopsy "indicated that she did not die of natural causes and it was consistent with homicide," Ray said.
Ray also pointed out that there was a hole at the base of Shannan's hyoid bone that was found in the second autopsy.
"It appears be to something was either drilled or pushed through that bone.
"And we couldn't determine what that was, but it was highly unusual," the lawyer said."

search.app

Great article with a lot of details about Shannan’s death.

“Ray said in a previous interview that Shannan was wearing a bra in photographs taken of her body and that the band that attaches the two bra cups was cut in half.”

 

[snarast]

Still not his style. He liked to take his time. He liked the power of having them captive. I highly doubt he was into chasing after a terrified prostitute running through the marshland in the dark.

He likes variation, as the HK2002 document so vividly illustrates.

IMHO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

You forgot to add M00, because that is what it is, your opinion, on who is qualified.

If you are claiming that an attorney is qualified, please give a source for his qualifications.
It's not my opinion that Ray doesn't have a medical degree, which is the first minimal requirement of being a forensic pathologist. It's a fact. Ray isn't qualified to interpret photos of skeletal remains. He would never be allowed to testify in court about it, his opinion would never be asked for by LE or an ME.
Law school certainlly does not qualify one to be a medical doctor that is a forensic pathologist.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Still not his style. He liked to take his time. He liked the power of having them captive. I highly doubt he was into chasing after a terrified prostitute running through the marshland in the dark.

Perhaps not the style of any he is accused of -- at this time. Sandra Costilla is also different.

"chasing after a terrified prostitute running through the marshland in the dark" That was an extreme situation that perhaps called for extreme measures. Plus, we don't know she ran into the marshland, do we? SG's remains weren't found for a year and a half. I don't see any way of knowing when her body went into the marsh. RH was an avid hunter. I don't claim to know what happened to SG, but I don't rule RH out.

RH seems to have enjoyed scaring women. Remember the woman from his office he sent a note to on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean telling her he could find her anywhere?

Remember the affidavit from the woman who attended a swinging evening at the Heuermann home with her policeman boyfriend/partner? According to her story, as I recall, she remembers leaving a tiny, naked woman who appeared to be scared? While I'm not convinced the young woman was Karen Vergata, I think that evening and that frightened young face has probably haunted her for years. The boyfriend said the young woman was ok, Rex was playing a game with her, remember?

Yes, as you suggest, RH did like taking his time and the power of holding them captive - at least the ones he is charged with, so far. But he also appears to have enjoyed the power of instilling fear, of making people aware of his ability to find them, to play games that displayed his intelligence.

Unless RH decides to talk sometime in the distant future, I seriously doubt the extent of his crimes will ever be known. I hope his pride and need for the world to know his "accomplishments" will eventually lead to him discussing his crimes -- perhaps after a few convictions and with nothing left to lose. When there are no more games to play, will he want to hold long post-mortem discussions of the "games" and his brilliance?

 

[Warwick7]

If you are claiming that an attorney is qualified, please give a source for his qualifications.
It's not my opinion that Ray doesn't have a medical degree, which is the first minimal requirement of being a forensic pathologist. It's a fact. Ray isn't qualified to interpret photos of skeletal remains. He would never be allowed to testify in court about it, his opinion would never be asked for by LE or an ME.
Law school certainlly does not qualify one to be a medical doctor that is a forensic pathologist.

Why would I provide a link to that?
I have provided links about the whole in the neck.
Msm discussed it, talked about, and I posted links.