Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[minazoe]

You know, though, in that House of Secrets, I noticed they did have that satanic hanging, wherever they displayed it. They're into "dark."

And nothing wrong with that-- till your husband murders a bunch of tiny women and uses victims' phones to taunt and draw attention to himself as he disposes of the remains. And then LE finds a planning document on his computer. And you keep insisting he didn't do it, and you had no knowledge of it. Not being sarcastic, honestly, in a million other cases it wouldn't matter, but here, it becomes impossible to completely ignore, jmo.

And there was that absolutely bizarre "coffee table" book. It's-- weird. And there's a creepy juxtaposition of kitsch, too, in that house. You've got these satanic items, coffee table book of grotesquely murdered people, fairies/gnomes whatever, winged creatures, and a bunch of dolls. It's like the house is sometimes trying to be like a unicorn, full of fantasy and whimsy. But it ends up more like a unicorn on crack.

I noticed it too.

 

[Ruminations]

You know, though, in that House of Secrets, I noticed they did have that satanic hanging, wherever they displayed it. They're into "dark."

And nothing wrong with that-- till your husband murders a bunch of tiny women and uses victims' phones to taunt and draw attention to himself as he disposes of the remains. And then LE finds a planning document on his computer. And you keep insisting he didn't do it, and you had no knowledge of it. Not being sarcastic, honestly, in a million other cases it wouldn't matter, but here, it becomes impossible to completely ignore, jmo.

And there was that absolutely bizarre "coffee table" book. It's-- weird. And there's a creepy juxtaposition of kitsch, too, in that house. You've got these satanic items, coffee table book of grotesquely murdered people, fairies/gnomes whatever, winged creatures, and a bunch of dolls. It's like the house is sometimes trying to be like a unicorn, full of fantasy and whimsy. But it ends up more like a unicorn on crack.

There were a lot of aesthetic/artistic details that appeared curated. Unless the producers slipped them in, the homeowners knew they were decorating for a film crew.

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Around 1:49:15 in the transcript of John Ray's talk, he suggests that Shannan was at a another house in Oak Beach before returning to Brewer's house and calling 911.

If he is correct and this other house was where Shannan felt her life was in danger, the 911 phone call from Brewer's house makes perfect sense.

I was not aware of Shannan being in another house prior to the 911 call. Are any of you sleuthers aware of this? Is it fact? Whose house was it?

Another point that supports Ray's assertion that Shannan was at another house, possibly with other men, is the fact she was hired for 5 hours (according to Ray) which is a long time for one client like Brewer.

Ray, provides a motive for Shannan's death, the fact she was scheduled to testify for the prosecution in a criminal case. 1:41:18 in the transcript.

MOO

 

[minazoe]

I haven't listened to this podcast yet...but this is freaking me out because it totally changes the timeline, the locations, and the players.
explains all the shadiness and foot shuffling...it's a real aha moment..I have to digest this. Going to listen later..wow..mOO

 

[snarast]

Around 1:49:15 in the transcript of John Ray's talk, he suggests that Shannan was at a another house in Oak Beach before returning to Brewer's house and calling 911.

If he is correct and this other house was where Shannan felt her life was in danger, the 911 phone call from Brewer's house makes perfect sense.

I was not aware of Shannan being in another house prior to the 911 call. Are any of you sleuthers aware of this? Is it fact? Whose house was it?

Another point that supports Ray's assertion that Shannan was at another house, possibly with other men, is the fact she was hired for 5 hours (according to Ray) which is a long time for one client like Brewer.

Ray, provides a motive for Shannan's death, the fact she was scheduled to testify for the prosecution in a criminal case. 1:41:18 in the transcript.

MOO

Yup, The trafficker classic going out with a (gang) bang.

He makes a good point, though. Well, several. If there were more people there than the seemingly sedentary Brewer and Pak, Shannan’s affect is even more understandable.

 

[omniscient]

anyone notice how on the phone call with 911, she starts with "YEAH, someone's following me". If you were in danger, would you start your phone call so calmly with yeah? That combined with the fact that she keeps saying she "doesn't know," yet it takes a severe, dangerous problem for a prostitute to call 911. Too many things don't add up about the phone call in my personal opinion. as well as Gus using 911 aswell, possibly as a tool.

 

[Warwick7]

Around 1:49:15 in the transcript of John Ray's talk, he suggests that Shannan was at a another house in Oak Beach before returning to Brewer's house and calling 911.

If he is correct and this other house was where Shannan felt her life was in danger, the 911 phone call from Brewer's house makes perfect sense.

I was not aware of Shannan being in another house prior to the 911 call. Are any of you sleuthers aware of this? Is it fact? Whose house was it?

Another point that supports Ray's assertion that Shannan was at another house, possibly with other men, is the fact she was hired for 5 hours (according to Ray) which is a long time for one client like Brewer.

Ray, provides a motive for Shannan's death, the fact she was scheduled to testify for the prosecution in a criminal case. 1:41:18 in the transcript.

MOO

There is so much I had forgotten. But yes, now I remember she was going to be testifying.

 

[snarast]

anyone notice how on the phone call with 911, she starts with "YEAH, someone's following me". If you were in danger, would you start your phone call so calmly with yeah? That combined with the fact that she keeps saying she "doesn't know," yet it takes a severe, dangerous problem for a prostitute to call 911. Too many things don't add up about the phone call in my personal opinion. as well as Gus using 911 aswell, possibly as a tool.

Could you elaborate on the last bit there?

You’re not suggesting that Gus was part of the sex ring? If so he was a world class liar.

 

[minazoe]

she says yeah... because someone finally picked up her call..so she says yeah..someone is following me. nothing unusual. she is probably alluding this person at that moment and is trying to not sound insane. mOO

 

[Soulmagent]

Around 1:49:15 in the transcript of John Ray's talk, he suggests that Shannan was at a another house in Oak Beach before returning to Brewer's house and calling 911.

If he is correct and this other house was where Shannan felt her life was in danger, the 911 phone call from Brewer's house makes perfect sense.

I was not aware of Shannan being in another house prior to the 911 call. Are any of you sleuthers aware of this? Is it fact? Whose house was it?

Another point that supports Ray's assertion that Shannan was at another house, possibly with other men, is the fact she was hired for 5 hours (according to Ray) which is a long time for one client like Brewer.

Ray, provides a motive for Shannan's death, the fact she was scheduled to testify for the prosecution in a criminal case. 1:41:18 in the transcript.

MOO

I am not aware of the fact. Doesn't really mean much though. He could be correct or not,it still does not make SG's 911 perfectly sensible . It doesn't answer any questions either. What puppy ? Why did she say what she said ? Are we missing clues because we only hear whats in our heads? I dunno .
I think she knew a scary rumor . How does anyone know one of those?

 

[snooptroop88]

Around 1:49:15 in the transcript of John Ray's talk, he suggests that Shannan was at a another house in Oak Beach before returning to Brewer's house and calling 911.

If he is correct and this other house was where Shannan felt her life was in danger, the 911 phone call from Brewer's house makes perfect sense.

I was not aware of Shannan being in another house prior to the 911 call. Are any of you sleuthers aware of this? Is it fact? Whose house was it?

Another point that supports Ray's assertion that Shannan was at another house, possibly with other men, is the fact she was hired for 5 hours (according to Ray) which is a long time for one client like Brewer.

Ray, provides a motive for Shannan's death, the fact she was scheduled to testify for the prosecution in a criminal case. 1:41:18 in the transcript.

MOO

Well, JR says he suggests this. And agreed, the money situation, the time-- there's definitely something "off" there, something missing because it doesn't add up. JR suggests maybe Brewer's house was the first house she went to before going to the party... and she was then entering back into Brewer's house from somewhere else, quite frightened.

I've always thought she was afraid of something she felt was lurking outside, but I wouldn't be sure it's a party. It could be, though. I think RH was stalking her and she'd become aware of it, and was afraid to go outside. And whatever interaction she had with RH that night, she'd started to believe her current company was "in on" a wider scheme. There had been that earlier run she took to the CVS with Brewer, maybe that somehow became the source of the problem. And (pure speculation) maybe she attempted to allude to the danger and it was dismissed as crazy rambling, terrifying her further, and at the same time alienating her.

JB trying to force her outside in such a scenario would have resulted in exactly the type of reaction she had. And I don't think SG was doing any crazy rambling. She knew she was in danger if she left that house at that point, and imo, she turned out to be completely right.

 

[Soulmagent]

Well, JR says he suggests this. And agreed, the money situation, the time-- there's definitely something "off" there, something missing because it doesn't add up. JR suggests maybe Brewer's house was the first house she went to before going to the party... and she was then entering back into Brewer's house from somewhere else, quite frightened.

I've always thought she was afraid of something she felt was lurking outside, but I wouldn't be sure it's a party. It could be, though. I think RH was stalking her and she'd become aware of it, and was afraid to go outside. And whatever interaction she had with RH that night, she'd started to believe her current company was "in on" a wider scheme. There had been that earlier run she took to the CVS with Brewer, maybe that somehow became the source of the problem. And (pure speculation) maybe she attempted to allude to the danger and it was dismissed as crazy rambling, terrifying her further, and at the same time alienating her.

JB trying to force her outside in such a scenario would have resulted in exactly the type of reaction she had. And I don't think SG was doing any crazy rambling. She knew she was in danger if she left that house at that point, and imo, she turned out to be completely right.

How would she become aware of that and more importantly how would he be stalking her?
Taunting ,I can see but stalking implies he would have a greater access ,than all available things have told us this far. IMO

 

[snarast]

Well, JR says he suggests this. And agreed, the money situation, the time-- there's definitely something "off" there, something missing because it doesn't add up. JR suggests maybe Brewer's house was the first house she went to before going to the party... and she was then entering back into Brewer's house from somewhere else, quite frightened.

I've always thought she was afraid of something she felt was lurking outside, but I wouldn't be sure it's a party. It could be, though. I think RH was stalking her and she'd become aware of it, and was afraid to go outside. And whatever interaction she had with RH that night, she'd started to believe her current company was "in on" a wider scheme. There had been that earlier run she took to the CVS with Brewer, maybe that somehow became the source of the problem. And (pure speculation) maybe she attempted to allude to the danger and it was dismissed as crazy rambling, terrifying her further, and at the same time alienating her.

JB trying to force her outside in such a scenario would have resulted in exactly the type of reaction she had. And I don't think SG was doing any crazy rambling. She knew she was in danger if she left that house at that point, and imo, she turned out to be completely right.

I lean toward witness intimidation. Maybe she was set up for a recorded beating and rape so that she wouldn’t testify?

That’s not a fact, but just a thought.

IMHOO

 

[snooptroop88]

How would she become aware of that and more importantly how would he be stalking her?
Taunting ,I can see but stalking implies he would have a greater access ,than all available things have told us this far. IMO

One of the JR witnesses suggested SG had a terrifying encounter with RH in the past.

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/new-evidence-connects-gilgo-beach-suspect-rex-heuermann-with-other-victims-attorney-says/

 

[snooptroop88]

How would she become aware of that and more importantly how would he be stalking her?
Taunting ,I can see but stalking implies he would have a greater access ,than all available things have told us this far. IMO

Also, just noting, Lost Girls makes it clear this wasn't SG's first trip out to Long Island. SG and Pak had been to jobs in Long Island before, but it was the first job in Oak Beach.

So she had other clients in Long Island.

 

[Ruminations]

I lean toward witness intimidation. Maybe she was set up for a recorded beating and rape so that she wouldn’t testify?

That’s not a fact, but just a thought.

IMHOO

In any case, Shannan was herself in legal peril. It does appear she was trying to mitigate her exposure by being cooperative, but she needed to not get busted to be credible as a witness for the prosecution against the trafficking.

In other words, that she called 911 in her legal situation is against her best interests legally.

Meanwhile, Brewer, just like Coletti and Brennen, had little to nothing to lose.

If Brewer wanted Shannan out of the house, why not just call 911 himself? (Or the non- emergency line. Probably more appropriate if you have a guest who's overstaying without threatening you).

Shannan was terrified but had a presence of mind during the phone call to 911. Everything she did made perfect sense for a woman who knows she is being lured outside to danger.

OTOH, nothing Brewer did made sense as someone trying to get a person out of his house.

There is no question in my mind that Shannan was murdered. The theory above is plausible, with the weird thing being, why Suffolk? Are there not more local places to intimidate a witness? OTOH, it does explain how Brewer "ended up" with a person who was working Manhattan.

Regarding Rex, nothing will surprise me. I do think the witness that placed them together months earlier is credible. But that was months earlier.

And the two murders tied to Rex after Shannan's murder appeared to be more "local" connections: Meaghan and Amber were both working on the island.

Melissa and Maureen were last seen in Manhattan. I believe the same is true for Jessica.

We don't know what the Sheriff's office has found as a range of behaviors from trafficked women who have interacted with Rex more recently have said. Nikki who has spoken a lot with media (I think?) also met on the island.

The could make Shannan, if her murder is at all connected to Rex, the last in recent years he found on Manhattan sites that we know about.

It is appalling that her murder isn't officially a murder case.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Also, just noting, Lost Girls makes it clear this wasn't SG's first trip out to Long Island. SG and Pak had been to jobs in Long Island before, but it was the first job in Oak Beach.

So she had other clients in Long Island.

I think Lost Girls is iconic in its bringing victims out in three dimensions.

But now, it's dated. It does get on my nerves when information that has been debunked gets restated without being updated.

It is clear that information from Pak given to Kolker was false. The most misleading detail is Shannan was not in the middle of business operations. She was a product other people bought and sold. Pak and Brewer arranged the odd "date." Kolker still makes it seem like Shannan did. References provided for this up thread.

Also, probably the witnesses most integral to non-forensic evidence leading to Rex's arrest, the testimony of Ambers house-mates, disagree with how they are quoted and portrayed by Kolker. Being that they are all alive, this is a feasible journalism follow-up. I really wish Kolker would work with them to resolve that. Because it's souring his work bringing this case the attention it needs with humanity. At least in my opinion.

The NetFlix just repeated errors.

I think I got the impression from Lost Girls that it was Shannan's first trip to LI. But that was Pak's narrative, and has been brought into question. I'd say, it's been debunked.

Edited to add: Shannan did not pick up any Lon-Gyland pronounciations or even refer to places like the natives do. But she had been there working.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

I think Lost Girls is iconic in its bringing victims out in three dimensions.

But now, it's dated. It does get on my nerves when information that has been debunked gets restated without being updated.

It is clear that information from Pak given to Kolker was false. The most misleading detail is Shannan was not in the middle of business operations. She was a product other people bought and sold. Pak and Brewer arranged the odd "date." Kolker still makes it seem like Shannan did. References provided for this up thread.

Also, probably the witnesses most integral to non-forensic evidence leading to Rex's arrest, the testimony of Ambers house-mates, disagree with how they are quoted and portrayed by Kolker. Being that they are all alive, this is a feasible journalism follow-up. I really wish Kolker would work with them to resolve that. Because it's souring his work bringing this case the attention it needs with humanity. At least in my opinion.

The NetFlix just repeated errors.

I think I got the impression from Lost Girls that it was Shannan's first trip to LI. But that was Pak's narrative, and has been brought into question. I'd say, it's been debunked.

Edited to add: Shannan did not pick up any Lon-Gyland pronounciations or even refer to places like the natives do. But she had been there working.

MOO

Great reminders!

 

[snooptroop88]

In any case, Shannan was herself in legal peril. It does appear she was trying to mitigate her exposure by being cooperative, but she needed to not get busted to be credible as a witness for the prosecution against the trafficking.

In other words, that she called 911 in her legal situation is against her best interests legally.

Meanwhile, Brewer, just like Coletti and Brennen, had little to nothing to lose.

If Brewer wanted Shannan out of the house, why not just call 911 himself? (Or the non- emergency line. Probably more appropriate if you have a guest who's overstaying without threatening you).

Shannan was terrified but had a presence of mind during the phone call to 911. Everything she did made perfect sense for a woman who knows she is being lured outside to danger.

OTOH, nothing Brewer did made sense as someone trying to get a person out of his house.

There is no question in my mind that Shannan was murdered. The theory above is plausible, with the weird thing being, why Suffolk? Are there not more local places to intimidate a witness? OTOH, it does explain how Brewer "ended up" with a person who was working Manhattan.

Regarding Rex, nothing will surprise me. I do think the witness that placed them together months earlier is credible. But that was months earlier.

And the two murders tied to Rex after Shannan's murder appeared to be more "local" connections: Meaghan and Amber were both working on the island.

Melissa and Maureen were last seen in Manhattan. I believe the same is true for Jessica.

We don't know what the Sheriff's office has found as a range of behaviors from trafficked women who have interacted with Rex more recently have said. Nikki who has spoken a lot with media (I think?) also met on the island.

The could make Shannan, if her murder is at all connected to Rex, the last in recent years he found on Manhattan sites that we know about.

It is appalling that her murder isn't officially a murder case.

MOO

No doubt in my mind, either, she was murdered. And jmo, RH is at the center of it. Months mean nothing to RH. He's been plying his sick craft for decades. He's an attentive type of guy, very attentive to the details ("HK"). I'd say he takes his time when he needs to do so.

But who else, if anyone, may have been "in on" this? That's the million dollar question, and one JR is furiously pursuing. I have a lot of respect for JR, it's jmo. I don't think JR is pursuing "deep pockets." I think JR just really wants to know-- did anyone else know about this? Did RH have acutal accomplices? If RH had help, how much "knowledge" did this "help" have??

They're good questions, especially in the light of what we know about Burke and SCPD in this period.

Have said from the beginning and I'll say to whatever end there is to this... that I think SG was an RH victim. I really and truly do believe she was. But a premature one. I think something happened that night, jmo, that forced RH's hand-- and I think it was that 911 call.

And maybe I'm wrong, but it's interesting to me that wrong or right-- here we are, waiting for his trial. And we know he's killed others. Why not SG? Why not especailly SG?

 

[minazoe]

No doubt in my mind, either, she was murdered. And jmo, RH is at the center of it. Months mean nothing to RH. He's been plying his sick craft for decades. He's an attentive type of guy, very attentive to the details ("HK"). I'd say he takes his time when he needs to do so.

But who else, if anyone, may have been "in on" this? That's the million dollar question, and one JR is furiously pursuing. I have a lot of respect for JR, it's jmo. I don't think JR is pursuing "deep pockets." I think JR just really wants to know-- did anyone else know about this? Did RH have acutal accomplices? If RH had help, how much "knowledge" did this "help" have??

They're good questions, especially in the light of what we know about Burke and SCPD in this period.

Have said from the beginning and I'll say to whatever end there is to this... that I think SG was an RH victim. I really and truly do believe she was. But a premature one. I think something happened that night, jmo, that forced RH's hand-- and I think it was that 911 call.

And maybe I'm wrong, but it's interesting to me that wrong or right-- here we are, waiting for his trial. And we know he's killed others. Why not SG? Why not especailly SG?

Rex talks about "hunting"
He has been seen in wooded areas
he hides bodies in wooded areas
he has been seen in cammo outdoor clothing and hunting gear
he has been seen with a revolver ( if you believe it)
he goes over to Gilgo beach to watch his victims rot.
he has been seen with Shannan before ( if you believe it)
Asa was not on vacation the night Shannan died,

she could have been set up to go over there and could not find the party she booked and Brewer wouldn't let her back in or didn't want to...and Rex was hunting her down with a nice big reedy area to hide in . I think he chased her into the reeds and killed her there where they were hidden from view. Probably too hard to move her afterward. He's the boogie man and I think she was set up.

mOO

ADDING..no one really knows all the locations the victims were murdered in. mOO