Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[Ruminations]

Regarding RH's potential involvement with Shannan's death. It has speculated that RH was most active when his wife AE was away from their home in Long Island.

Where was AE when Shannan disappeared from Oak Beach? Was she home on Long Island?

A VERY interesting question!

I'm a doubter that Asa was always away for every crime, and in fact believe a witnesses sworn statement comes very close to admitting that she "knew" but-didn't allow herself to fully process and accept- that Karen was being imprisoned.

It stands to reason that Asa "knew" at least on the same sub-level the same thing.

The didn't live with Rex in the intervening years, and wasn't financially intertwined. So when the arrest was made, it would be much easier for her to see what she saw without self-protecting filters.

I find it really strange that Asa stated explicitly that she'd blame herself if she were to believe Rex hired sex workers, when it appears that indeed she did know this. I mean, what if it happens that Rex is not sexually satisfied unless he is hurting someone. Does she think a dutiful wife has to keep such a husband satisfied? I think it shows the control Rex did have over her; he managed to strap himself to her such that she couldn't throw him under the bus without joining him. Seeing the evidence right in front of her face honestly means having to be a bad wife. No wonder she sees it with such distortion.

John Ray's staff who learned that neither Asa nor Rex was checked into hotels in Atlantic City on exactly the dates asserted by the prosecution. This seemed to annoy Tierney, but I agree that the prosecutor interpreted the date too literally from the information on the credit card statement. Yet, obviously there was some activity that does show some person being present at, for example, an AC liquor store and clothing stores. And we don't know other clues the prosecutors might know, such as where Rex's phone traveled around those dates. From the statements, we only know that an adult holding the Heuermann CC, likely Rex or Asa, was at a few retail places on a few dates. This was back in the time that the charges didn't go through in real time, but the transaction date, often before the posting date, was noted. Time stamps existed on register printouts if the register had its clock set, but rarely as a kept CC transaction record. It seems to me that we are not privy to a clear time line surrounding Maureen's disappearance. I do believe Asa and the kids were in AC sometime near that. Asa asserted in the Peacock piece that she could not be made to believe Rex picked up MBB, brought her to MP, killed her, then joined the family in AC. Now, as far as I know, the prosecutor did not claim Rex joined the family. In addition the prosecutor did not locate the scene of the murders; they only said it was possible at least one murder was committed in the house. Asa's statement included a lot of assumptions of the prosecution theory.

Why did she make so many assumptions? Why did she not address the unclear dates? Who took what mode of transport when, and where did each spend each night? IMO, she denied a scenario so specific it almost sounded to my ears that she was confirming something different happened with the logistics, not different in that there was no murder.

My theory is something as unsettling what happened with Karen Vergata happened that weekend, and she is not processing it or sharing it due to the power Rex had over her, which has been replaced with the power Macedonia and the promise of a million dollars had over her.

Remember, Karen Vergata happened first, while Asa was pregnant according to Macedonia, and abusers get away with escalating outrageous actions, they don't reel themselves in. The Atlantic City trip, with unclear dates and movement of people, occurred when Asa was about as dependent on Rex as possible.

Just as VH at first doubted the prosecution theory but believed it was possible, and later came to believe it is likely true, I predict Asa will evolve from where she is now to where VH started: agreeing it is possible.

All that to say, I'm not sure Asa had to be all that far out of town for Rex to be involved, and for her to not know it.

MOO

 

[Sherlock&Watson]

anyone notice how on the phone call with 911, she starts with "YEAH, someone's following me". If you were in danger, would you start your phone call so calmly with yeah? That combined with the fact that she keeps saying she "doesn't know," yet it takes a severe, dangerous problem for a prostitute to call 911. Too many things don't add up about the phone call in my personal opinion. as well as Gus using 911 aswell, possibly as a tool.

I noticed this too. I went back and listened again and the dispatcher asks her if she needs help, then she says "Yeah" etc.

 

[Ruminations]

Regarding RH's potential involvement with Shannan's death. It has speculated that RH was most active when his wife AE was away from their home in Long Island.

Where was AE when Shannan disappeared from Oak Beach? Was she home on Long Island?

A VERY interesting question!

I'm a doubter that Asa was always away for every crime. In fact, a witnesses sworn statement comes very close to admitting that the swinger witness "knew" but-didn't allow herself to fully process and accept- that Karen was being imprisoned. Why wouldn't Asa have felt the same way that night? And others.

It stands to reason that Asa "knew" at least on the same level the witness "knew" about Karen.

I believe coercive control can do a lot to a person. It's not to make an excuse, but I do get how Asa could have been largely under Rex's control even then, pregnant and "rescued" by Rex. This evening may have been one of many steps before and after it that could have groomed Asa to accept more and more crazy, sadistic and, of course, criminal behavior from Rex. I think Asa could have known without knowing.

I agree with John Ray that the Atlantic City credit card statements used as evidence do not confirm dates of hotel stays, nor do they indicate who was staying. (The defense could theoretically claim it was Rex in AC at those unconfirmed dates, and he was therefore not murdering! If the dates were reliable.)

I don't think it is a sure thing at all that Asa was away for every murder, especially given testimony from witnesses that say she knew sex workers were in the home, plus the consensual swinger. There are also reports of sexual services being provided to Rex with Asa's knowledge while children were home, but in a non-violent, businesslike way. That also "works" in a coercive control marriage. The occasional chaotic visit, with mostly businesslike visits to normalize and calm down the wife. And, what a gift to Rex it must have been when she accused a worker of stealing something! That was time for Rex to play the victim of his "emotional" wife and make it seem like she was the one who caused the problems during these perfectly normal days at home.

I feel like this post might manage to rankle two groups, but it is he way I feel. I think Asa could have so damaged by Rex, she could not see what was going on around her. She knew. But she didn't.

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

A VERY interesting question!

I'm a doubter that Asa was always away for every crime. In fact, a witnesses sworn statement comes very close to admitting that the swinger witness "knew" but-didn't allow herself to fully process and accept- that Karen was being imprisoned. Why wouldn't Asa have felt the same way that night? And others.

It stands to reason that Asa "knew" at least on the same level the witness "knew" about Karen.

I believe coercive control can do a lot to a person. It's not to make an excuse, but I do get how Asa could have been largely under Rex's control even then, pregnant and "rescued" by Rex. This evening may have been one of many steps before and after it that could have groomed Asa to accept more and more crazy, sadistic and, of course, criminal behavior from Rex. I think Asa could have known without knowing.

I agree with John Ray that the Atlantic City credit card statements used as evidence do not confirm dates of hotel stays, nor do they indicate who was staying. (The defense could theoretically claim it was Rex in AC at those unconfirmed dates, and he was therefore not murdering! If the dates were reliable.)

I don't think it is a sure thing at all that Asa was away for every murder, especially given testimony from witnesses that say she knew sex workers were in the home, plus the consensual swinger. There are also reports of sexual services being provided to Rex with Asa's knowledge while children were home, but in a non-violent, businesslike way. That also "works" in a coercive control marriage. The occasional chaotic visit, with mostly businesslike visits to normalize and calm down the wife. And, what a gift to Rex it must have been when she accused a worker of stealing something! That was time for Rex to play the victim of his "emotional" wife and make it seem like she was the one who caused the problems during these perfectly normal days at home.

I feel like this post might manage to rankle two groups, but it is he way I feel. I think Asa could have so damaged by Rex, she could not see what was going on around her. She knew. But she didn't.

MOO

I believe these JR witnesses as well, and agree with JR about the credit card. I mean, is that seriously all LE did to "confirm," look at the statement?? Let's hope not?

Regarding RH's potential involvement with Shannan's death. It has speculated that RH was most active when his wife AE was away from their home in Long Island.

Where was AE when Shannan disappeared from Oak Beach? Was she home on Long Island?

And agreed COMPLETELY that this is an absolutely fascinating question.

If the answer is yes, AE was away when SG was murdered-- why's that not relevant? And seriously, I think that even were the answer "yes, AE away that month," many of the same people banging the drum when it comes to the importance of this "AE vacation factor" for supporting AE would suddenly not care so much about it, jmo. And that's a worry.

 

[Ruminations]

I believe these JR witnesses as well, and agree with JR about the credit card. I mean, is that seriously all LE did to "confirm," look at the statement?? Let's hope not?

And agreed COMPLETELY that this is an absolutely fascinating question.

If the answer is yes, AE was away when SG was murdered-- why's that not relevant? And seriously, I think that even were the answer "yes, AE away that month," many of the same people banging the drum when it comes to the importance of this "AE vacation factor" for supporting AE would suddenly not care so much about it, jmo. And that's a worry.

The prosecution has handled the family in the weirdest way.

I have never seen arresting authorities to comment beyond the boilerplate statement they usually give when the press/public asks about any witness. "[Insert the name of the person the reporter asked about here] is considered a witness. [Name] is cooperating fully with this investigation." Instead, in multiple ways, the prosecutor asserted the family's ignorance and innocence.

The fact that the PROSECUTOR explicitly exonerated the family while there is an ongoing investigation is bizarre! Who has seen that before on any other case? And there is good reason to assert that the investigators are following the facts. What if Rex's defense is that his wife did it? He now has a plausible argument that the investigation was biased. That is, I imagine, the reasoning behind the typical, bland comments about witnesses.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I believe these JR witnesses as well, and agree with JR about the credit card. I mean, is that seriously all LE did to "confirm," look at the statement?? Let's hope not?

And agreed COMPLETELY that this is an absolutely fascinating question.

If the answer is yes, AE was away when SG was murdered-- why's that not relevant? And seriously, I think that even were the answer "yes, AE away that month," many of the same people banging the drum when it comes to the importance of this "AE vacation factor" for supporting AE would suddenly not care so much about it, jmo. And that's a worry.

IMO, assuming the prosecution can prove its assertions, Asa was a witness no matter where she was located. Everything was in front of her face, geography aside. 4 time zones does not make renovating the family bathroom after making a "big mess" any less suspicious.

The witness just has to be ready, willing and able to process the information. Having a witness face a huge economic jolt, then offer her a million dollars is one way to interfere with her being ready, willing and able to process the information. It doesn't hurt to take every opportunity to imply she is crazy.

That said, there is a pattern of sending the family off to murder without family interruption at least much of the time, per what we have seen so far. So, I do want to know where Asa and Rex were when Shannan was on the phone with 911. That could indicate if it was possible or not that Rex was involved with Shannan's murder.

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

When RH was arrested, I never thought he was his involved in Shannan's death. Now I am not so sure. That is why I asked about his wife's Asa's whereabouts at that time.

These are just wild speculations on my part.
Since we know Dr. Hackett 'treated' Shannan in his house, did Dr. Hackett release Shannan to the care of her driver MP?

We know MP left Oak Beach before the police arrived. If he had caught Shannan or had her released to him by the doctor, MP would have had her in his vehicle when he left, and could he have taken her to RH's home?

Could Shannan be left with RH, so he could take care of her?

Would RH leave Shannan in 'his' cemetery, but since she was different than his usual victims, dispose of her using a slightly different MO.

We have no idea when Shannan finally ended up in the marsh.

Was anybody from LE following RH's movements at that time?

 

[minazoe]

When RH was arrested, I never thought he was his involved in Shannan's death. Now I am not so sure. That is why I asked about his wife's Asa's whereabouts at that time.

These are just wild speculations on my part.
Since we know Dr. Hackett 'treated' Shannan in his house, did Dr. Hackett release Shannan to the care of her driver MP?

We know MP left Oak Beach before the police arrived. If he had caught Shannan or had her released to him by the doctor, MP would have had her in his vehicle when he left, and could he have taken her to RH's home?

Could Shannan be left with RH, so he could take care of her?

Would RH leave Shannan in 'his' cemetery, but since she was different than his usual victims, dispose of her using a slightly different MO.

We have no idea when Shannan finally ended up in the marsh.

Was anybody from LE following RH's movements at that time?

I def think Rex grabbed her and killed her either in the marsh or maybe at one of the houses since Asa was probably at home. remember he hunts, then he kills. HK. look at what Richard Allen was able to accomplish in a wooded setting. maybe Rex was inspired by these murders to try trail kills.

I don't know all the answers but again it's possibly something she was unknowingly set up for or somehow Rex was stalking her. mOO

 

[Betty P]

I think it’s possible AE was somewhat a victim of coercive control by Rex.

I also think she was aware of his activities, but not specific details. I think she psychologically and cognitively distanced herself from his more violent activities with sex workers. She “depersonalized” the victims . She may have felt a form of jealousy for these victims because of the time he spent on his sexual obsession with them. That could explain the alleged accusations of theft Asa made against the woman who signed the affidavit for John Ray.

Perhaps being jealous of these women made it much easier for her to rationalize the deaths of some of them. In some ways, I think she is a sociopath, too. It would explain her lack of surprise or concern over the deaths of these victims at the time of Rex’s arrest. She doesn’t see them as victims, either. They were just Rex’s objects, the ones who consumed his time, attention and money. She’s not going to lift a finger to help their families see justice.

It’s hard to forget how cold and hostile she was in the days and months after his arrest. Her focus was only on herself and her anger at LE and the news media . Real anger and total rejection of the legitimacy of their investigation, almost as if she didn’t think the investigations of these women’s deaths was worth the trouble.

 

[TOMBISHOP]

Good morning, I would like to ask you all a question:

without prejudice we imagine that it was RH but I wonder how he managed to enter that residential area?
I know that there is a gate but I don't know if it had a guard, if it was operated with a remote control or was simply always open, does anyone have more information on this?
I only remember that there were cameras but magically the tapes disappeared or were damaged, and from other points it seems impossible or almost impossible to enter that area unless perhaps with a boat... thanks to everyone

 

[snooptroop88]

Good morning, I would like to ask you all a question:

without prejudice we imagine that it was RH but I wonder how he managed to enter that residential area?
I know that there is a gate but I don't know if it had a guard, if it was operated with a remote control or was simply always open, does anyone have more information on this?
I only remember that there were cameras but magically the tapes disappeared or were damaged, and from other points it seems impossible or almost impossible to enter that area unless perhaps with a boat... thanks to everyone

Have asked this, too. My recollection on this is that I looked it up (think in Lost Girls) and you could walk right past that gate.

Lemme get the street view for the area here. Because I don't think he necessarily even had to have gone beyond the gate. He might have been lurking outside just beyond the gate, on foot and with a vehicle nearby, or perhaps sitting in a vehicle parked nearby where he could see people enter and exit. Think this is the gatehouse:

Different angle/closer:

Shot to the right:

Shot to the left (and there's a little opening here, and I think Ocean Parkway's not far through that opening. I've got no idea how far, I'm not a local):

Also, while the eastern portion of Oak Beach is gated, the western portion is not. So I've often wondered if you parked over at Oak Beach Park (not at all too far away), could you then navigate the terrain by foot into the eastern portion? My guess looking at the gatehouse area is it likely would be possible (?) but I remember seeing something about fencing that I think is different from the wood planks at the gate there, so not sure. AND on top of that, I think I remember seeing something about a hole in the fencing just mentioned, so I have no idea on that aspect at all.

 

[Betty P]

Good morning, I would like to ask you all a question:

without prejudice we imagine that it was RH but I wonder how he managed to enter that residential area?
I know that there is a gate but I don't know if it had a guard, if it was operated with a remote control or was simply always open, does anyone have more information on this?
I only remember that there were cameras but magically the tapes disappeared or were damaged, and from other points it seems impossible or almost impossible to enter that area unless perhaps with a boat... thanks to everyone

If he was involved, I assume he entered by invitation from a resident. It appeared there was a party that night and Shannan was hired to be the entertainment.

It’s always been assumed that by the time LE arrived to respond to Shannan’s call, the other guests had already left, she was missing, the security video was gone, etc.

 

[CuriousCricket]

If he was involved, I assume he entered by invitation from a resident. It appeared there was a party that night and Shannan was hired to be the entertainment.

It’s always been assumed that by the time LE arrived to respond to Shannan’s call, the other guests had already left, she was missing, the security video was gone, etc.

This has always been my view, as well. Much like the reported hotel party where one SW locked herself into her room. It was a gathering of like-minded people -- prob. not serial killers, but into the same sex scene. I say prob. not serial killers because we don't know do we if others exist on LI so far undetected? LI seems to have more than its share and a certain atmosphere.

As I recall, Shannan and the homeowner left to go to ?was it the store or drugstore?

My take has always been that during the time they were away, guests arrived, RH being one of them. Which is why Shannan became so terrified. Now, as has been recently discussed, perhaps the "party" was at another location on the property or nearby and she ran into the house for safety and refused to leave.

I've also wondered if perhaps because of RH's extensive involvement with SWs he might have been the person who was asked to recommend "girls" for the parties. Perhaps he recommended Shannan for this gig. If you recall, he seemed to enjoy freaking people out. Remember the co-worker he got a message to in the middle of the ocean, "I can find you anywhere" or something like that?

I believe he would have greatly enjoyed terrifying Shannan, toying with her. Maybe he didn't intend to kill her that night, just torture her mentally. Her 911 call and running would have awakened his "hunter" instinct. A great new game. While other guests handled the police, security cameras and clean-up aspect, RH hunted. I suspect Shannan was probably not in the marsh the entire time. . . nor did she die in the marsh is my guess.

AND it has just occurred to me to wonder if perhaps the police force had certain officers who were assigned to answer calls like this. Officers who could be depended on NOT to do anything?

Long way to say - invited guest.

 

[Ruminations]

Good morning, I would like to ask you all a question:

without prejudice we imagine that it was RH but I wonder how he managed to enter that residential area?
I know that there is a gate but I don't know if it had a guard, if it was operated with a remote control or was simply always open, does anyone have more information on this?
I only remember that there were cameras but magically the tapes disappeared or were damaged, and from other points it seems impossible or almost impossible to enter that area unless perhaps with a boat... thanks to everyone

It was a low-security gate. It opened with the last 4 digits of the landline of residents' phones, if I remember correctly, and people routinely knew that. Also, the community was not private property owned cooperatively. They were municipal roads behind the gate. There was no legal basis for keeping people out.

MOO

 

[minazoe]

I believe Rex showed up dressed to work in the marshy environment in his wellingtons, hunt coat , protective layers, for the water and the cold of night. he knew what he was going to do and there was some kind of plan or protocol he followed to achieve his goal. I believe he knew Shannan and she was another girl that didn't satisfy him or do what he wanted and she ended up dead.

I would not be surprised if all these old perverts have burner phones etc..I would love to have PH's laptop and web searches.

I just won't ever believe hypothermia. never. mOO

 

[Ruminations]

I believe Rex showed up dressed to work in the marshy environment in his wellingtons, hunt coat , protective layers, for the water and the cold of night. he knew what he was going to do and there was some kind of plan or protocol he followed to achieve his goal. I believe he knew Shannan and she was another girl that didn't satisfy him or do what he wanted and she ended up dead.

I would not be surprised if all these old perverts have burner phones etc..I would love to have PH's laptop and web searches.

I just won't ever believe hypothermia. never. mOO

it's plausible Rex hunted her.

It's also possible someone else harmed her.

What is implausible is drowning or accidental death.

MOO

 

[LongIsland731]

The more I listen to the shannon gilbert 911 call the more I lean that she was In a druken/drugged state not murdered. I was 50/50 before the call release. 70/30 with the release of the call. Now with the arrest of RH I'm 90/10 that her death was as the police say.

<modsnip - off topic>

Shannon seems back and fourth between a drunk calm mood to hysterical state then back To calm before she ran nout. If she was in real danger inside she would have ran out to her driver. A driver whom she worked with before and had a gun, by his own admission. If brewer was trying to kill her he wouldn't have let her stay on the phone with 911 that long. Nor would he have called pak inside to get her. He went upstairs to defuse the situation so pak could get her outside.

She wasnt whispering like someone sneaking away to make a 911 call
Compare her call to the one that lead to Sean grate's arrest. Listen to this poor women's tone, volume and real fear.

Nor was she screaming frantically or specifically saying what happened or what she saw. She didnt say for example knife, gun, taser, rope, they choked me . Nothing specific.. After she got put through to state police she said "there's somebody after me" 2x. She's asked "where are you " she repeats "there somebody after me asked again "where are you mam".... after a 5 second pause she says again "there's somebody after me".. that doesn't sound like someone who's fully aware of what's going on or in fight or flight mode.

I think brewer originally called her in as entertainment no sex needed, because that's cheaper. Then after some drugs and alcohol tried to push for sex maybe without wanting to pay more. When shannon wasn't about she started calling pak to end the date and maybe brewer said get the <modsnip - profanity>out or ill kill you and it made something snap in her head. I'm not saying he's a good guy I'm sure he's talked down to his fair share of sex workers. He honestly sounds like the just about every middle aged rich divorced long island dad I ever heard. The get off my lawn types instead "get out if my house" , for him. He sounds like he's trying some reverse psychology saying "we will all go outside together" in hopes that shannon agrees. He seems to try stand her up she resists. He offers to get lost by going upstairs. He figures if he's out of the room, she will be less aggravated and pak can calm her down and get her out. Pak tells her let's go and she kept saying no. Then a few mins later she starts asking him to go. Saying, "please get me out of here, mike". "I'm begging you now.... I just want to go home". Pak says "let's go" "let's go home" but she doesn't get up to go. Yes, she didn't know the address but that's not proof that she never knew it. She also didn't give her age when the dispatchers asked her. She knows her age but maybe forgot that also.

If someone was outside why didn't they catch her when she ran out to colleti's? If someone was after her why didn't she stay at the saftey of the colleti's. Even he says to her "wait a minute ,where are going, what are you doing"? Between him, pak, brewer and the 2 dispatchers that's 5 people that seemed confused by Shannon's behavior that night.

I doubt RH has anything to do with it. To me it's absurd to think a 6'5 ogre was roaming around oak Beach, a small private village , in the wee hours and happened to run into Shannon. Not his style.

That leaves the Peter Hackett angle. But his wife and kids were home. And he was disabled. Plus why dump her so close to his house. I cant really explain his call to shannons mother. But I think he's a need who hung out with and worked with a lot of cops. He got the number from the boyfriend who went back the next day to look for her. He made the call to feel important to feel like the cops he looks up to. Even though becoming a doctor is much more impressive.

If Pak took her there to be murdered why would he stick around parked outside for 3 hours and risk be seen by witnesses and the secne? If he was part of some murder ring and shannon "got away" he would have went away or lawyered up. Not go back the next day looking for someone who's now a potential witness, . Why would he grab the phone and tell 911 where they were?

<modsnip - no link to an approved source to statement repeatedly made as fact>

. Driving around a sex worker. Why would he tell the police there address and do 10 years in jail, over what seemed like drunk/high cowoker. he was deposed and answered a lot of questions. He could have plead the 5th all the way through.

If brewer was a killer why call a sex worker with an armed driver? Why not get them alone like RH. If he was a killer why give her your real address? She could have gave it to other people. If he was a killer he would have had her phone right away instead she had it the whole time. People ask well why did he call her from manhattan when theirs plenty of sex workers on long island.

<no link to an approved source to statement made as fact>

As for the missing bone, after 19 months in the elements. Snow, heat, rainstorms, high tides. Hell 3 months before SG body was found we got hit with the remnants of hurricane irene. 400k ppl lost power from wind and rain. The area where SG was found got clobbered during the storm.

This is all my opinion. I think she was having a drug feuled physcosis that lead to her tragic death. The evidence just isn't there to support a murder.

Took a little break from this case and have recently revisited it. Especially since I live minutes from where shannon was found . Listened to the call maybe 50 more times. Im still coming to the same conclusion.

 

[LongIsland731]

I def think Rex grabbed her and killed her either in the marsh or maybe at one of the houses since Asa was probably at home. remember he hunts, then he kills. HK. look at what Richard Allen was able to accomplish in a wooded setting. maybe Rex was inspired by these murders to try trail kills.

I don't know all the answers but again it's possibly something she was unknowingly set up for or somehow Rex was stalking her. mOO

In my opinion RH was nowhere near there. Brewer was hanging out with her for 3 hours before her 911 call. How does waiting 3 hours to make a move on her make sense. You really think RH would be working with someone else? You think he would call a girl with an armed driver? RH made sure to use Burner phones. He picked all his victims up. It took him 12 years to get caught. RH wrapped his victims in camo and put them more or less on the side of the road so he could go back and visit them. Shannon was found in veggitation that would slice you up. Why would a potential murderer go through all that when they could have dumped her body somewhere easier to get to. The cops used a treaded vehicle to reach her.

 

[snooptroop88]

I believe Rex showed up dressed to work in the marshy environment in his wellingtons, hunt coat , protective layers, for the water and the cold of night. he knew what he was going to do and there was some kind of plan or protocol he followed to achieve his goal. I believe he knew Shannan and she was another girl that didn't satisfy him or do what he wanted and she ended up dead.

I would not be surprised if all these old perverts have burner phones etc..I would love to have PH's laptop and web searches.

I just won't ever believe hypothermia. never. mOO

Totally agreed. And agreed with @CuriousCricket this wasn't supposed to be "the night." He wasn't going to kill her that night. I believe he was stalking her, which is RH all over. The 911 call forced his hand. I'd swear that CVS run had something to do with it, but just a guess.

 

[LongIsland731]

Totally agreed. And agreed with @CuriousCricket this wasn't supposed to be "the night." He wasn't going to kill her that night. I believe he was stalking her, which is RH all over. The 911 call forced his hand. I'd swear that CVS run had something to do with it, but just a guess.

I don't think RH had anything to do with Shannan at all.