Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[sleuth-d-]

http://www.pattiwood.net/article.asp?PageID=11872

**snipped**

................... (more to it)

many thanks, great find, very interesting.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

... She is also setting up a trust fund in her daughter’s name to create shelters for abused women. ...

June Steenkamp, who once shunned the media, is now courting it. She will do what it takes to survive and keep her daughter’s name alive. ...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...p-interview-now-clear-reeva-never-coming-back

I’m SO glad June is staying busy, giving interviews, promoting her book, telling the other side of this story - finding her VOICE - willingly taking on her daughter’s compassionate project.

With parents like June and Barry, it’s easy to see how Reeva grew into such a warm, friendly, loving, generous woman.

 

[foxbluff]

Yes I remember it being announced too and recall thinking what convenient timing, he now accepts the blame for Tashas and Henke has been coerced into signing the affadavit. At that point I thought it was defence desperate tactics as I was sure a DE verdict was coming in. How wrong I was.

So, Cotton, did you hear it announced somewhere other than Oscar Radio (whatever that is!) or reading it onboard?

It seems so strange to me that more media didn't pick up the story and run with it.

BBM - That was exactly what I was thinking at the time... except I wasn't sure of the verdict.

 

[G.bng]

The real pic showed much more chaos, if I'm right.

Sorry, and no offence, but you are not right. There were no "real" pictures with "much more chaos" and those linked don't show any "chaos" merely untidiness and a complete lack of style. Indeed they both show the trophies at least fairly neatly if not very aesthetically displayed whether in or on top of the cabinet.

And they are NOT crime scene photos rather photos copyrighted to an Andy Cooper so permission or at very least recognition may be required. They are it seems from an "at home" or "welcome to my cresh" style interview carried out in in 2011 for the Daily Mail, a rehash of which was published 14th February 2013 (Hmmm? Wonder why they chose that day!) titled, in traditional daily mail style, The dark side of the Blade Runner: Guns strewn around his bachelor pad..✄. etc.

 

[G.bng]

At the time nobody could find a different pic to disprove that the claims were perhaps exaggerated. I wanted the big chaotic scene of broken stuff but could only find this. It does show a broken trophy.
View attachment 62651

Does it mean the cops interpreted this as an argument or is this even the crime scene photo? I don't know but I would like full evidence photos to judge myself. I don't think this is the main game for evidence anyway there were more signs of chaos just upstairs. IMHO

The picture is NOT from the crime scene but from a 2011 Daily Mail interview with OP rehashed in 2013 (click blue text to link) with the photos copyrighted to Andy Cooper so IMO recognition should be given otherwise Websleuths could be faced with a civil suit for breaking copyright laws as photographers don't are doing what they do for a living and this should be imo minimally respected.

 

[foxbluff]

I’m SO glad June is staying busy, giving interviews, promoting her book, telling the other side of this story - finding her VOICE - willingly taking on her daughter’s compassionate project.

With parents like June and Barry, it’s easy to see how Reeva grew into such a warm, friendly, loving, generous woman.

I, too, am glad she's staying busy and that finances are no longer a burden.

I'm hoping they'll keep the bar business going, however, in spite of having come into a good deal of money. Sometimes, sadly, poor people who have never had any money don't know how to protect/manage it when they finally get some.

 

[G.bng]

The National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) said it will file papers for leave to appeal this week in the Oscar Pistorius trial, even though, as was initially thought, there is no deadline.

http://citizen.co.za/268559/npa-confirm-oscar-appeal/

Thanks for info. Is the "no deadline" due to the fact that before the State can appeal the verdict they must first appeal what Grant calls in his post "The Seekoei Hurdle" which affects judgements handed down by the high court, i.e.:

From Grant's paper "The Seekoei Barrier":
The appeal judges found the state can only be appeal against a High Court judgment if the accused was acquitted. Therefore, the state cannot appeal a decision if there was a conviction on a competent verdict - in other words where the accused was found guilty of a less serious charge, in this case theft.

This creates a double standard in the law, because the same does not hold for the lower courts (magistrates' courts and district courts).

In which case, if I understand it correctly, only after a successful appeal of the Seekoei verdict, which Grant notes has been tried several times, could the State then appeal Masipa's verdict.

Fascinating stuff. Hope Nel is relying on Grant to write what are going to be extremely complex submissions after the State's HOAs which left so much to be desired compared with the defence's well argued, reasoned and well written HOAs.

 

[foxbluff]

Along this same note....I'll never forget a small published snippet I read from the book Oscar wrote. There was a few added pages (actually written by his Dad I believe) and it discussed the day Oscar, at 11 months, had his legs amputated. He and his wife had made a decision and scheduled the operation long ago, after much research (sounded like this was mainly done by the wife) and agonizing over what to do. On the day of Oscar's scheduled surgery his Dad decided to attend a business meeting instead and let his wife handle taking Oscar to the hospital and wait through the operation all by herself. He said in the middle of the meeting, he decided he should have gone with his wife and been there. (Yah, ya think?) So 1/2 way through the meeting he explained to everyone what was taking place and he needed to leave. When he arrived at the hospital the operation was already over and Oscar was out of recovery, as I believe the article stated he walked into the room and his wife was holding Oscar.

I couldn't believe a parent could do that. Not just to his 11 month old son, but to his wife. To let her handle one of the most horrific and terrifying days of her life, all alone. Either change the meeting date or if for some reason seriously that crucial, then reschedule the surgery date. But letting your wife fare it alone - not an option. What a class a$$ dirt wad. Pretty much sums up what a poor excuse of a husband, father and human being this man is.

I definitely agree with you Col.Mustard...."while (almost) anyone can have kids, not everyone should".

Outrageous... and incredibly sad... how could he possibly have ever considered being anywhere else but at the hospital to comfort and support his wife and little son?!? OP having to live with that knowledge all his life would imo be a BIG brick in the wall which divided father and son.

 

[Mr Fossil]

I am exploring the possibility that the cricket bat strikes come before the helps.

I have never understood why OP would call for help at the stage that he says he does as, according to his version, he doesn't know that it's Reeva in the toilet yet. He only suspects it and he hasn't even checked if she's gone downstairs.

I think that after firing the gun he is shocked by what he has done and he immediately puts the gun down in genuine horror. He tries the toilet door but it's locked so he runs for the cricket bat to break it open. He is still on his stumps (as per Vermeulen's testimony). He hits the door at various angles because it is difficult to keep his balance and when he cracks the panel he levers it to pull it out. He can see inside and see Reeva but he still can't get in. He runs to the bedroom and puts his prostheses on, calls help (he is genuinely horrified by what he has done) and returns to kick the weakened panel out.

The Stipps don't hear the bat because Dr Stipp is on the phone to Security with his wife beside him in the bedroom. After the call Dr Stipp hears helps. He later sees a man walking in the bathroom.

The Nhlengethwas don't hear the bat because they are talking about Mr N wanting to go out to investigate before he agrees to makes his calls to Security. Mr N doesn't hear helps (he is on the phone), Mrs N does.

Perhaps Johnson does hear the bat as he hears 5-6 shots but I suspect he and Burger are already back inside their bedroom talking. They don't hear the helps either. They are also further away.

As far as I can see, this actually makes more sense of the expert and witness testimony (see Witness testimony analysis 2). The question I shall now sleep on before I consider making any changes is, if the above is the correct sequence, why would OP have wanted to change it? Does it make him sound more genuine?

Or maybe I'm wrong.

Thoughts welcome.

 

[sleuth-d-]

BIB - I know. Mind you, having seen how she so casually discounted ear witness testimony, I'm not sure the missing phone would have made any difference to her, especially if there was no way of knowing the contents of what was deleted. I'm still very interested to know why all messages received after the killing were deleted.

What was so incriminating that they needed to be wiped? Messages suggesting OP use a tried and trusted intruder excuse? Who knows. That's just another secret the clan will take with them to the grave. I would like to ask CP "How do you tweet at night?"

agree about the phone most likely being cited as irrelevant to masipa [cf. ammunition type, whatsapp messages/relationship state]. but something needed wiping - and justified the risk of taking the phone.

on the supposed botha/phone 'deal', from the defence hoa p11:

25. In particular the State failed to call Warrant Officer Botha,
notwithstanding various challenges for it to do so.
26. The State does not even deal with this failure, which is surprising,
particularly if regard is had to the State’s duty to act without fear, favour
and prejudice.

this to me indicates that there was not a deal between 'mention of botha' and 'mention of the phone theft'. although i suppose there could have been some kind of variation in the deal.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03000/Supplementary_Head_3000376a.pdf

 

[Val1]

Thanks for info. Is the "no deadline" due to the fact that before the State can appeal the verdict they must first appeal what Grant calls in his post "The Seekoei Hurdle" which affects judgements handed down by the high court, i.e.:



In which case, if I understand it correctly, only after a successful appeal of the Seekoei verdict, which Grant notes has been tried several times, could the State then appeal Masipa's verdict.

Fascinating stuff. Hope Nel is relying on Grant to write what are going to be extremely complex submissions after the State's HOAs which left so much to be desired compared with the defence's well argued, reasoned and well written HOAs.

BBM That's quite possible, someone had posted one of the Prof's tweets asking for a translation for an article awhile back and it mentioned he had some homework(or some such description) to do for him.

What I would like to know is whether anyone has taken note of the books and what they were in one of the pics of OP's kitchen? From the titles I could read there was more than one that was all about forensics, detectives, profiling, psychology, narcissists and mind games kind of stuff(that being gleaned from doing simple searches for book reviews on the titles/authors). Looks like OP was doing his own homework since his supposed interests were running and architecture...

 

[Val1]

agree about the phone most likely being cited as irrelevant to masipa [cf. ammunition type, whatsapp messages/relationship state]. but something needed wiping - and justified the risk of taking the phone.

on the supposed botha/phone 'deal', from the defence hoa p11:

25. In particular the State failed to call Warrant Officer Botha,
notwithstanding various challenges for it to do so.
26. The State does not even deal with this failure, which is surprising,
particularly if regard is had to the State’s duty to act without fear, favour
and prejudice.

this to me indicates that there was not a deal between 'mention of botha' and 'mention of the phone theft'. although i suppose there could have been some kind of variation in the deal.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03000/Supplementary_Head_3000376a.pdf

BBM You mean like hiding OP and JE's ongoing and according to the records, current relationship?

As for any deals that may have been made, I'd like to know what kind of deal was made over the theft of RS's handbag...

 

[sleuth-d-]

BBM That's quite possible, someone had posted one of the Prof's tweets asking for a translation for an article awhile back and it mentioned he had some homework(or some such description) to do for him.

What I would like to know is whether anyone has taken note of the books and what they were in one of the pics of OP's kitchen? From the titles I could read there was more than one that was all about forensics, detectives, profiling, psychology, narcissists and mind games kind of stuff(that being gleaned from doing simple searches for book reviews on the titles/authors). Looks like OP was doing his own homework since his supposed interests were running and architecture...

View attachment 62693

great spot.
i was also looking at that photo, but at the other side... an iphone 4 charger, reeva's i assume. wasn't she supposed to have her phone upstairs?

re: the books... first one i checked...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Byleveld-dossier-serial-Hanlie-Retief-ebook/dp/B005JD2OES
!!

 

[Val1]

great spot.
i was also looking at that photo, but at the other side... an iphone 4 charger, reeva's i assume. wasn't she supposed to have her phone upstairs?

re: the books... first one i checked...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Byleveld-dossier-serial-Hanlie-Retief-ebook/dp/B005JD2OES
!!

Yup yup, then there's the Alex Cross series(a specialist in forensic psychology turned detective), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Alex_Cross; the Inside Steve's Brain(how he was famous for being a volatile narcissist); Madoff: The Man Who Stole $65 Billion(the wealth management arm of his business was an elaborate Ponzi scheme); even the book Love Sick(not sure if this is the same one, Love Sick: Love as a Mental Illness), plus Stolen?.. like were these OP's books?

Oh yea, notice the pics on the counter? None of RS even though they were sooo in love...

 

[Cherwell]

on the supposed botha/phone 'deal', from the defence hoa p11:

25. In particular the State failed to call Warrant Officer Botha,
notwithstanding various challenges for it to do so.
26. The State does not even deal with this failure, which is surprising,
particularly if regard is had to the State’s duty to act without fear, favour
and prejudice.

this to me indicates that there was not a deal between 'mention of botha' and 'mention of the phone theft'. although i suppose there could have been some kind of variation in the deal.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03000/Supplementary_Head_3000376a.pdf

It strikes me that it's just the kind of sneaky snide thing we'd come to expect from this defence team: do the deal, and then bring up the absence of Botha when it's too late for the prosecution to do anything about it.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Yup yup, then there's the Alex Cross series(a specialist in forensic psychology turned detective), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Alex_Cross; the Inside Steve's Brain(how he was famous for being a volatile narcissist); Madoff: The Man Who Stole $65 Billion(the wealth management arm of his business was an elaborate Ponzi scheme); even the book Love Sick(not sure if this is the same one, Love Sick: Love as a Mental Illness), plus Stolen?.. like were these OP's books?

Oh yea, notice the pics on the counter? None of RS even though they were sooo in love...

his copy of love sick is this one... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Sick-Sue-William-Silverman-ebook/dp/B009EQG992

 

[ColonelMustard]

I'm rewatching Nel's cross of OP.

In the Fri, 4/11 testimony, Nel made the point, VERY effectively, that OP could NOT say that Reeva had NOT screamed in the toilet. The shots were so loud that he wouldn't have been able to tell because his ears were ringing.

In the Mon, 4/14 testimony, that I am watching right now, Nel has emphatically stated to OP that he shot once, heard the wood (magazine rack) moving - and then immediately changed aim and shot 3 more times.

:: This question has never occurred to me before ::

If OP couldn't have heard whether Reeva screamed or not, how could he have heard the magazine rack moving?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

BBM That's quite possible, someone had posted one of the Prof's tweets asking for a translation for an article awhile back and it mentioned he had some homework(or some such description) to do for him.

What I would like to know is whether anyone has taken note of the books and what they were in one of the pics of OP's kitchen? From the titles I could read there was more than one that was all about forensics, detectives, profiling, psychology, narcissists and mind games kind of stuff(that being gleaned from doing simple searches for book reviews on the titles/authors). Looks like OP was doing his own homework since his supposed interests were running and architecture...

View attachment 62693

Great sleuthing Val. I can't make out the titles even with my glasses on, lol, but what a funny place to keep such books, I naturally assumed they were cookery books, more fool me. I wonder if the 'narcissists and mind games' was a gift to him.

The list of books reveals to me that OP read up about forensics and police investigation in his spare time, who knows, maybe he secretly desired a career in LE after finishing racing.

In any event, he knew it was wrong to take Reeva's body downstairs but he did it anyway. The Netcare call has never been verified to the extent of them instructing him to bring Reeva to the hospital, this is puzzling imo.

If OP was so grief stricken why didn't he just sit at the steps with Reeva, let everyone else fetch and carry? OP returning upstairs is a big red flag, as we've covered before.

 

[ColonelMustard]

BBM

It's described in Behind the Door: The Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp Story
By Mandy Wiener, Barry Bateman

In the extract scroll down to the The Lioness' Legacy, 6th page. I suppose it could be dismissed as hearsay.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...lved in previous aggressive incidents&f=false

patCee, I just now clicked the link to read the extract and am highly embarrassed to say that I can't figure out where it is / how to access it.

Can you help me?

 

[ColonelMustard]

We never got an answer to Nel's cryptic, "Did you ever tell anyone that you woke up in a cold sweat? No? You never said that to anyone?" did we?

When all this is done and dusted and OP's verdict is changed to DE and he's given the proper 15 years (I can dream), then I think Mr Nel needs to come and talk to us. We have much to discuss

I reckon he and Ms Johnson read this site.

*waves*

Lemon, that's so funny!

It would be AWESOME if those guys...

1. Were following WS ( If they aren't they should be. There are some EXCEPTIONAL creative and legal minds, here!)

2. Would drop in here for a Q + A, after all the dust settles.

3. Would write their own book.


That question about breaking into a cold sweat, was odd, and, no, I haven't heard/read anything more on it -- but would certainly like to. Someone must have told Nel about it, just like, "Did you ever tell anyone you'd break their legs?" and when he kept asking OP over and over again about the iPad, ostensibly alluding to the .