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[Hatfield]

But he has already been investigated so it can't be him. :innocent:

IMO
Just because he or anyone else have been investigated once before by LE does not mean that they are not involved.

There are many examples where LE has to return to the same people over and over again for further questioning and sometimes they end up arresting them.

 

[PickleChris]

I get your idea but let me throw a stick in your spoke. Let's say Coletti was/is lying to cover up for someone or some people (Small community has to look out for each other)....That twists things drastically. I think with that case there are several people that know the truth but are just keeping quiet. The video tapes that disappeared? Either someone was scamming the residents and nothing was ever recorded or something else incriminating might have been on them. (Besides Shannon related material.)

 

[LR1]

Another local thing to add. Unless your under 10 or 100 years old, walking through that 'bramble' or whatever LE calls it - is not a big deal. I have been doing it since I was about 12 or 13 years old to get from the coves over to the ocean side. Do you get scratched? Yes, but nothing that is life threatening or extremely painful. Wear a pair of thick jeans or overalls. The biggest thing to worry about is ticks but that's after the fact. Our suspect knows the South Shore very well, drives OP often (whether for work or play), might have lived at Gilgo for some time or had a summer home there (relatives, etc), still frequents the area, has a drug or alcohol addiction but not enough to effect his job and daily activities, might have Lyme disease, and has a tendency to talk down to women (not 100% sold on the women idea yet, might be the other way around). I will throw this out there while I'm footballing ideas. Possibly married and was using the family vacation house as a 'getaway' or was married and in the process of divorce and living in a bachelor pad by the beach for a few years. If this is the case, wife was the dominent one in the house (breadwinner, inheritance). Definitely grew up on the South Shore of LI if not a community off of the OP. Confident, pervasive, cocky, and flashy but has a social quirk or something awkward to make people think that he couldn't hurt a fly or is sort of innocent, maybe exposing a bad childhood or marriage for sympathy. Forced compassion to a certain extent to gain trust (mommy/wife issues?). Again, not tech savvy but uses phones/computers on the daily for work. I'm leaning salesman half in the office/home office, half on the road in the local area? <- This creates a perfect schedule that no one close would question. Or some sort of delivery/repair person that drives from East to West on OP as a route. (Vending/Soda machines? Jones Beach? Summer house repairs? Cedar Beach - Beach Hut?) Thoughts?

Of the victims found on OP, how many do you think the GB4 killer is responsible for?

 

[deedee21]

Alot of the answers are in the depositions. If and when this case is settled, the parties will be told not to talk about this case. This is typical when one or more people dont want certain inormation publizied. I think that will happen in this case. That might mean the 911 tape wont go public. Unless someone sues under the freedom of information act.

 

[Hatfield]

Of the victims found on OP, how many do you think the GB4 killer is responsible for?

JMO
I think all of them.

I had my doubts about the Gilbert case at first but I have come to think that one or more of the players involved with her being there that night is involved with the other cases.

I used to think that the dumping ground was a place the person just knew about and would go there at the very end to just dump the bodies. Lately I think the ties to the area were more directly involved and maybe where some of the "dates" the women had actually occurred near there.

If the perp(s) had his initial meetup nearby then it may have been a convenient place to be able to keep an eye on the disposal area.

Heres a possible scenerio.
He may have started this not ever expecting to turn into a seriel monster and after he dumped the first person closeby and nobody ever found her then maybe he began to just continue his method after he got away with it.

The seashore area sometimes has a natural strong smell and odor of ocean spray and rotten seaweeds and all kinds of smells.
The perp may have begun to think his original murder and dump site masked the smell of decomposition because of the ocean smells.

So even though it was real close to where he lived OR frequented the area (vacation type home, etc.), he may have just started to use the area more and more even though it was close to where he was at times.

 

[PickleChris]

Of the victims found on OP, how many do you think the GB4 killer is responsible for?

If it is a single person then I say only the GB4 are related. The time others were there, location, method of dump are all factors to take into account and I just don't think one person is responsible for all those bodies. If you ask anyone from the south shore of Long Island where they would 'dump a body', 90% would say off Ocean Parkway. I've asked many people that question before. Just know if LE actually gets someone for this that person is probably going to be blamed for all of them since it's easier to bundle and close the case.

 

[CriminalMinds]

But he has already been investigated so it can't be him. :innocent:

true, but many cases show where some of the first interviews were of people that were "cleared", then later ended up being the perp--could be he was "cleared" while they build a case

 

[CriminalMinds]

Of the victims found on OP, how many do you think the GB4 killer is responsible for?

GB4 Killer(s?)=4

 

[CriminalMinds]

In Gilberts case I keep coming back to either the driver, CPH, or the john. Or all 3.

Lets start with CPH.
If it is true that CPH called her mother the very morning of her disappearance then how did he know she was even going to end up missing.

From what I have read the alleged call to the Mom is somewhat mysterious because he denied even calling her for quite some time.

So lets assume he did call her that very morning.

He had to have known the phone number of her mother. So where did he get that phone number? I have to guess from Gilberts own phone which tells me she was already separated from her phone and already in the brambles by the time that call was placed.

So LE needs to requestion him IMO.

Now the driver
Something about the driver really bugs me because of Gilbert when she went to the 1 neighbor who did try to help her. He said she took off from his house and then he saw the driver I think.

So we have a witness that sees her and sees the driver in basically the same place.

Why didnt Gilbert run to the driver for safety? Its almost like she treated him as the enemy too.

Now finally the John
She ends up running for her life immediately after leaving the johns house IMO.
So perhaps things started going bad right at the house.

This case is very disturbing and could it be possible that 1 2 or all 3 ended up involved?
Maybe when the John was tired of her he decided to call up a neighbor CPH? and offer him the rest of the night with her and maybe she rightly objected to that not being part of the bargain. Maybe then the driver got involved and tried to convince her to stay at the house and maybe at that point she felt all 3 of them were the enemy because she felt they were forcing her to do things she never agreed to.

If I was LE I would start with CPH and stick with grilling him. His story does not hold up about the phone call to Mom. Nobody would do that. Something about that phone call puts him squarely in the middle of this somehow.

CPH is said to be a storyteller, attention seeker, braggart, etc..He possibly interjected himself into the case for the attention-He might not have been able to help himself from doing due to having that kind of personality---Although, even if he isn't involved per say, he may know who is involved there, or might have seen something that night, or been kind of part of an interaction---the only red flag about that is that it's one of the things to look for in a suspect(interjection into the case)---One of the CPH sticking points for me is, WHY would he leave her body that close to his place if he was involved directly?--Surely he would know he would become an investigational target that way--Even if it was left there temporarily the first few nights, I would have to think he would, at some point, relocate her--So that begs the next question, WHY wasn't she located over to the GB4 cluster if they are tied..?

 

[LR1]

If it is a single person then I say only the GB4 are related.

GB4 Killer(s?)=4

JMO
I think all of them.

pardon the snipping

Part of the reason for asking the question was to try and make up my mind if he lives or lived on OP. I keep seeing speculation that this person must live nearby so he can keep any eye on the site and maybe revisit by driving past on his daily commute.

If he did manorville, and I think he did, evidence might suggest he attempted to delay identification by mutilating tats and hiding the parts that might have potentially made for easier identification, in other words he made a effort to not get caught. I'm trying to make sense of why he would put those parts closer to home if he did live on OP. He made little attempt to conceal parts of JT and JD6 in manorville but the identifying parts 40 miles away on OP were only slightly more concealed. Taking a moment or two to dig a hole and bury the skulls and other parts might have ensured they would never be found. It seems to me the last place a prolific SK would have his stash of victims would be anywhere near his place of residence. The Parkway is not that densely populated and the number of males in the age range of a SK would be somewhat limited compared to the population on LI. OP's residents were likely the first pool of potential offenders looked at by LE.

This guy knows enough about investigations to taunt friends and family of the victims multiple times without a worry about getting caught. He likely left little forensic clues for LE to do anything with. He's even got them arguing over the number of killers responsible because of the number of victims and timespan between the first and last. Fourteen years if you start with the fire island JD.

We know the GB4 are related and we know 4 years earlier the Manorville 2 are related. I'm assuming those 6 are related because they are very close in distance on OP and are the same type victim, i.e. young white female sex workers. I'm going to throw fire island JD in with them because it was 4 years prior to manorville and like JT and JD6 she was mutilated with her skull ending up on OP. The remaining 3 are likely his as well. The only set that gives me pause is the mother/child. There seems to be no limit to the depravity with this guy and he is good it seems at not getting caught. I don't suspect he lives on Ocean Pkwy but its certainly possible he does and they've just missed it. Y'all know where I stand on SG, bless her soul.

 

[Aleph]

Great point about the ocean smells.

 

[cpaul]

Is it known what time of day the victims were last known to be alive?

 

[hawkshaw]

I think you guys are finally getting what this may all be about.

 

[mysteryattic]

I think you guys are finally getting what this may all be about.

And what is it that you are getting at other than the scpd is corrupt and incompetent? Not that I disagree with that point from what I hear on this site.

 

[hawkshaw]

I was referring to the posts suggesting the killer(s) are close by and very familiar with the terrain. That the gals were probably killed in or near Oak Beach and dumped there where the killer(s) felt safe because they could monitor the area. There are a thousand better places to dispose of a body than where they were dumped.

I also believe there are many folks in that area that have a pretty good idea who did this. Having these people talk would probably lead to a lot of things the cops and DA don't want you to know.

I mentioned in another post that PC Dormer is an idiot that was told as little as possible. Sorry, I can't find the document but it was posted here, somewhere where he testifies before the legislature and tells them the detectives don't tell him everything. You would have to be an idiot or a drunk to admit that when you are the police commissioner that was at the helm when this happened.

 

[Emre E]

Another genius gem from the official profile

He may have sought treatment at a hospital for poison ivy infection.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/n...l-killer-gets-a-personality-profile.html?_r=0

See? This drunk, rich, construction worker person got himself scratched by poison ivy, but still he did what he did for at least three more times.

So, I decided to improve the official profile He may have sought treatment at a hospital for poison ivy infection at least four times.


EDIT: .... or, he never got poison ivy infection in the first place.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6a/2f/85/6a2f851249a7794e4a3b48e6786a67eb.jpg

If you don't want to catch a killer, it is cunning to create a character that doesn't exist.

 

[hawkshaw]

EMRE, you continue to impress me with your insights on how some &#8216;investigations&#8217; are conducted. &#8220;&#8230;..creating a suspect that doesn&#8217;t exist&#8230;.&#8221; &#8211; BRILLIANT! Most folks don&#8217;t have the capacity to think with such deviancy.

I am trying help three innocent men get out of jail for a double murder they didn&#8217;t commit. The police had to first find three victims, or more to pin this on and build a web of lies from there. In this particular case the cops believed they needed to find the driver of the getaway car. They made up a fictitious guy named &#8220;Jason&#8221;. Two of the suspects, later convicted gave &#8216;confessions&#8217; that Jason was the driver. A cooperating/lying witness gave the same statement. These people said they knew Jason from the neighborhood from 2 -4 years. Two guys also placed &#8220;Jason&#8221; on a particular block in a semi-residential area.

This was a case where one of the victims was an off-duty NYPD cop working a second job. The cops could never find &#8220;Jason&#8221;. They couldn&#8217;t find him because he never existed. They knew there was no such &#8220;Jason&#8221; because they made it up.

I did many homicide cases and a few cases where police officers were murdered. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if there was such a person involved in similar circumstances I would have that person in handcuffs in 24 hours. There is just no way he could avoid being arrested. The cops never found such a person. I doubt if they even looked for such a person other than pretending that they did.

Five months later detectives did bring in a Jason Ligon to the precinct that investigated the double murder. Ligon &#8216;confessed&#8217; to the crime and pretty much corroborated the &#8216;confessions&#8217; of the two suspects and the cooperating witness accomplice. The ONLY problem with that &#8216;confession&#8217; is he didn&#8217;t give it to the cops; the cops made it up for him and made him sign it. He balked when the DA brought in a video camera to record the statement.

Jason Ligon was more than 200 miles away selling drugs in Baltimore/DC area and was captured on videotape doing so. The entire case took more than 3 years to complete with three separate trials for the three individuals charged and convicted of this crime. Ligon had to go to jail waiting for a trial that would never happen because if this became known to the defense the chances are all three cases would have been put in jeopardy. After the last of the three trials was over the DA suddenly realized Jason simply wasn&#8217;t there and couldn&#8217;t have been there. He released him 2 weeks after the last conviction came in. He even had to gall to take credit for correcting this terrible injustice he committed upon Jason Ligon.

Ligon&#8217;s confession pretty much corroborated the &#8216;confessions&#8217; of the three others. The question that no one was able to answer is how he was able to do that if he wasn&#8217;t there! His confession was very detailed and he couldn&#8217;t have just made it up. Not one person was held accountable for this obvious perjury on the part of the police and with the help of the district attorney.

In 2008, one of the defendants filed a Writ of Habeas with the federal court in the EDNY. Judge Edward Korman had no problem explaining how this could have happened with one of the most ridiculous explanations I have ever heard. He concluded his explanation by saying the two detectives that took the false statement from Ligon ( they were the principal detectives in this case) were not the same detectives that took the &#8216;confessions&#8217; from the two defendants, and the alleged witness accomplice. Therefore, this bogus confession had no bearing on the integrity of the whole case in question.

 

[Ruminations]

Hello---I am a long time non-member lurker who just moved on in 2012 when these threads were so turbulent and eventually disappeared for the non-registered. I am looking forward to catching up on the newest theories. Shannan's story is compelling to me simply because it seems like a lot of players completely disregarded her safety for various reasons that are not clear. It blows me away that it took so long to find her body when it was precisely in the direction she was headed when last seen.

For whatever it is worth, I have two theories. One the GB4 murderer could be one of the guys involved in causing Shannan's death, but the evening of Shannan's death went off script, and may have not even been an evening that a murder was planned. Or it was planned and scrapped when MP was there. I think the evening of Shannan's death involved more people more unplanned events than the careful serial murders.

The second theory is minor but a lot of posters assume that Shannan and JB were on the same page on the CVS/alternative-to-CVS drive. Perhaps Shannan wanted to go to CVS to get something. Or perhaps she used a code like, "I need to go to CVS" to tell her driver to get her out of situation. She may not have been able to get her driver to bring her to CVS or away, and would have been more compelled to comply with JB's alternate plans.

 

[Emre E]

EMRE, you continue to impress me with your insights on how some &#8216;investigations&#8217; are conducted. &#8220;&#8230;..creating a suspect that doesn&#8217;t exist&#8230;.&#8221; &#8211; BRILLIANT! Most folks don&#8217;t have the capacity to think with such deviancy.

I am trying help three innocent men get out of jail for a double murder they didn&#8217;t commit. The police had to first find three victims, or more to pin this on and build a web of lies from there. In this particular case the cops believed they needed to find the driver of the getaway car. They made up a fictitious guy named &#8220;Jason&#8221;. Two of the suspects, later convicted gave &#8216;confessions&#8217; that Jason was the driver. A cooperating/lying witness gave the same statement. These people said they knew Jason from the neighborhood from 2 -4 years. Two guys also placed &#8220;Jason&#8221; on a particular block in a semi-residential area.

This was a case where one of the victims was an off-duty NYPD cop working a second job. The cops could never find &#8220;Jason&#8221;. They couldn&#8217;t find him because he never existed. They knew there was no such &#8220;Jason&#8221; because they made it up.

I did many homicide cases and a few cases where police officers were murdered. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if there was such a person involved in similar circumstances I would have that person in handcuffs in 24 hours. There is just no way he could avoid being arrested. The cops never found such a person. I doubt if they even looked for such a person other than pretending that they did.

Five months later detectives did bring in a Jason Ligon to the precinct that investigated the double murder. Ligon &#8216;confessed&#8217; to the crime and pretty much corroborated the &#8216;confessions&#8217; of the two suspects and the cooperating witness accomplice. The ONLY problem with that &#8216;confession&#8217; is he didn&#8217;t give it to the cops; the cops made it up for him and made him sign it. He balked when the DA brought in a video camera to record the statement.

Jason Ligon was more than 200 miles away selling drugs in Baltimore/DC area and was captured on videotape doing so. The entire case took more than 3 years to complete with three separate trials for the three individuals charged and convicted of this crime. Ligon had to go to jail waiting for a trial that would never happen because if this became known to the defense the chances are all three cases would have been put in jeopardy. After the last of the three trials was over the DA suddenly realized Jason simply wasn&#8217;t there and couldn&#8217;t have been there. He released him 2 weeks after the last conviction came in. He even had to gall to take credit for correcting this terrible injustice he committed upon Jason Ligon.

Ligon&#8217;s confession pretty much corroborated the &#8216;confessions&#8217; of the three others. The question that no one was able to answer is how he was able to do that if he wasn&#8217;t there! His confession was very detailed and he couldn&#8217;t have just made it up. Not one person was held accountable for this obvious perjury on the part of the police and with the help of the district attorney.

In 2008, one of the defendants filed a Writ of Habeas with the federal court in the EDNY. Judge Edward Korman had no problem explaining how this could have happened with one of the most ridiculous explanations I have ever heard. He concluded his explanation by saying the two detectives that took the false statement from Ligon ( they were the principal detectives in this case) were not the same detectives that took the &#8216;confessions&#8217; from the two defendants, and the alleged witness accomplice. Therefore, this bogus confession had no bearing on the integrity of the whole case in question.

I don't know what it is... maybe "pride" getting the best of LE officials, or the constant pressure of maintaining a decent "conviction rate" that keeps them from stepping back. Remember your other case, where a young man is convicted for killing a teenage girl.

The sequence of events is, (1) boy and girl together, (2) boy goes home alone, (3) boy hears on the news that the girl is found dead, (4) boy gets his car cleaned.

Now, the prosecution presents this as a proof of culpability. But reviewing the events in the proper timeline, you can see there's a good chance the boy is innocent. Because for #4, the boy - if he murdered the girl - doesn't need to hear the news to get his car cleaned.

As you know, I am quite wary about exonaration thing, or I was, before reading your posts, especially the "rape case" you posted on another thread is truly depressing. That could be anybody.

I will write a detailed post about Hugues Francois case (Thalia Stathis murder in New Jersey).

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ed-Victims-**MERGED**&p=10954591#post10954591

Now, this man is convicted for "second-degree disturbing or removing human remains" meaning the prosecution supposedly proves he took the victim's body and dumped it on the shoulder of a road intersection in Long Island.

There is nothing in the entire case they can even remotely refer him leaving New Jersey. I wrote a letter to him to NJSP, because unfortunately, even his own lawyer (public def) is not insterested that he can be innocent.

I don't know if Francois will ever get my letter, or will he ever reply. But if I get a reply, I will share it here.

Note: I'm waiting for an update from you on my "tomatoes".

Finally; LISK is asking;

What is the difference between an undertaker and a corrupt PD?


Answer: You don't have to pay for the services of the corrupt PD.

 

[deedee21]

Create a character that does not exist? Maybe the killer made every effort to do that. It might be why hes still free.