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[Peter Brendt]

Of course I would never say never, but my last point on this would be if you take a close look at the terrain in question there is actually a elevated strip of land that has a lot of bramble and even a few trees growing on it in between where she was found and where her belongings were found. google earth tells me its approximately a foot higher than the surrounding area so it would seem to me there would have to be 5 or more feet or water in the place in order for the belongings to have unimpeded travel and not get caught up in some of the bramble.

I wish, things would be so easy. But hydrodynamics is a very specialized area of physics and it may would have to say something about 1 foot of water and bramble bushes (with roots) establishing rather an island effect than a filter effect unless the branches hang actually into the water. So, as much as I would like to be sure, she dropped the stuff and went on, I have nothing conclusive to dismiss a drift scenario.

 

[marie-chantal]

Why is it, every time, you have a logic error in your posts, that you accuse me of being rude for not following you into that logic failure? I think, to follow you in the assumption that those jeans were as good as new would be childish and unnecessary waste of energy. And please stop to put words in my mouth, I never assumed anything about the state of the jeans. All I said is, I don't know in what state they were. So interpreting everything as if they would be as new is pure assumption. So, the only thing, I assume is I don't know in which state they were. No, in fact, I'm pretty sure I don't know. And now we can stop with you turning words around in my mouth. I rarely assume, I deduct. You can read up the difference in a dictionary.

And on the risk to be called rude again, but since the jeans or the remains of the jeans were downhill from the remains of the body, did you ever consider the local wildlife getting access to the flesh?

I apologize for what appears to be a miscommunication. You wrote the word "assume" in all capital letters, which indicates yelling. It appeared to me that you were yelling at me about my opinion.

I did consider wildlife; however, what I was pointing out is that LE stated in the MSM that the jeans fell off of her. The way it was phrased indicated that they fell off while she was running. I was merely pointing out how ridiculous that theory is. Trust me, I wear skinny jeans all the time. They are never going to simply fall off when the wearer is running. That was a ridiculous thing for them to say.

I don't know anything about the state of the jeans. I was commenting on what LE stated. That's all I have to go off of-the reports in MSM by LE. I don't know the degree to which LE believes that the jeans fell off as she ran, but that is what they stated. It's an absolutely asinine thing for them to say, IMO.

Here's one of the quotes from MSM:
Dressed in slim-fitting jeans, a tank top, brown leather jacket and strappy, black sandals, Gilbert left for the evening, heading to Manhattan to meet Pak.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

This article says "slim-fitting". I've also seen them described as "skinny jeans". Either way, jeans of this type will not fall off when one is running.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I apologize for what appears to be a miscommunication. You wrote the word "assume" in all capital letters, which indicates yelling. It appeared to me that you were yelling at me about my opinion.

I did consider wildlife; however, what I was pointing out is that LE stated in the MSM that the jeans fell off of her. The way it was phrased indicated that they fell off while she was running. I was merely pointing out how ridiculous that theory is. Trust me, I wear skinny jeans all the time. They are never going to simply fall off when the wearer is running. That was a ridiculous thing for them to say.

I don't know anything about the state of the jeans. I was commenting on what LE stated. That's all I have to go off of-the reports in MSM by LE. I don't know the degree to which LE believes that the jeans fell off as she ran, but that is what they stated. It's an absolutely asinine thing for them to say, IMO.

Here's one of the quotes from MSM:
Dressed in slim-fitting jeans, a tank top, brown leather jacket and strappy, black sandals, Gilbert left for the evening, heading to Manhattan to meet Pak.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

This article says "slim-fitting". I've also seen them described as "skinny jeans". Either way, jeans of this type will not fall off when one is running.

Okay, next time, I figure out how to do another color or something to emphasize words. Or bold. To me, the idea to interpret capitalization as yelling feels still weird, but that's internet lingo, I guess. Formatting instead of wording.
Dormer was never especially good in wording anything. I could never figure out whether it was because he drank too much or not enough. So basically he said the jeans fell off, but didn't mention whether they were ripped or anything.
And one thing, that always stroke me as a little "lazy" was the way journalists use words and terms. The first one writes "slim fitting", the next one is too lazy to ask Dormer or read up a transcript and copies the article of the first one, re-arranges paragraphs, changes some words and the story of the slim jeans" is born. We had that so often with other articles. How ever, the first articles spoke of "slim fitting". Then the metamorphosis to "skinny fitting" and then "skinny jeans" began. So it is, IMO, far from save to assume, those were actually stretch fitting jeans or something along that line. And mearly slim-fitting jeans can fall off if they are ripped open enough. Or be discarded if they are so ripped, the hinder further running. Or be discarded because the victim feels hot and exhausted (which can be a side effect of certain drug combinations as well as the often discussed paradoxical undressing). So there are a lot of possibilities.

 

[Justiceforever]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,
With the recent developments here on the board and recent developments in my own off the radar investigating....I will now be participating in the discussion again.
Nat

Good to have you back!

 

[Justiceforever]

New York.

:floorlaugh:

 

[LINative13]

There are no tides where SG was found, only changes in depth from rain water drainage. Maybe once or twice a year is there enough water in the marsh to cover the area where her body was found. Yes, I'm a life long boater, and long time resident of the barrier beach community. I know how things move around on the local marshes when the water gets deep.

Well MCME, if you look at my post a little more carefully you will see I referenced a change in the direction of moving water as "tide". So I will say it again, if water was ebbing and flowing in there either by rainwater or flood water (meaning water bulding up in depth and dropping in depth hence creating a direction of moving water) they would have knotted up around her.

Now, taking what you said and saying that there is NO current in there.....wouldn't that further the case that those pants were not moved there by water? So I do not understand how you try and sink my argument and support it at the sametime.

Arrogance is blinding.

 

[LINative13]

I wish, things would be so easy. But hydrodynamics is a very specialized area of physics and it may would have to say something about 1 foot of water and bramble bushes (with roots) establishing rather an island effect than a filter effect unless the branches hang actually into the water. So, as much as I would like to be sure, she dropped the stuff and went on, I have nothing conclusive to dismiss a drift scenario.

its all about speed. Its a formula, its actually pretty basic physics. The faster the water is moving, the less of it you need to move an object. You can move a lincoln navigator with 4 inches of water moving at the right speed.

 

[mcme]

Well MCME, if you look at my post a little more carefully you will see I referenced a change in the direction of moving water as "tide". So I will say it again, if water was ebbing and flowing in there either by rainwater or flood water (meaning water bulding up in depth and dropping in depth hence creating a direction of moving water) they would have knotted up around her.

Now, taking what you said and saying that there is NO current in there.....wouldn't that further the case that those pants were not moved there by water? So I do not understand how you try and sink my argument and support it at the sametime.

Arrogance is blinding.

Hi LINative13, I'll try to make my theory a little more clear to you. I believe it's possible that some time after SG was little more than bones on the ground with clothes, shoes and a handbag on and near them, a storm like Irene may have raised the level of water back there above SG's remains and the pants, shoes and hand bag left the area in the direction the wind took it. They traveled from ENE to WSW until they ran out of water or came to the higher stands of grass and that's where they were found. Wave action on the hand bag may have finally opened it, scattering the contents a little.
That is a theory of mine in this thread for theories.
Try not to be so blind.

 

[Peter Brendt]

its all about speed. Its a formula, its actually pretty basic physics. The faster the water is moving, the less of it you need to move an object. You can move a lincoln navigator with 4 inches of water moving at the right speed.

Yup! As long as the Lincoln Navigator isn't parked behind something giving it some shadow from current. And the same is valid for jeans with out people in it. But the chance that a current spills light objects out into such a pocket is higher than for an SUV. So, I agree with you that the trousers and her other belongings didn't drift but were likely dropped there. What I try to get is enough data to prove that, and there I am far from the goal.

 

[LINative13]

I just want it to be known thAt I don't think she was killed by the elements. But I do think its possible to be killed by those same elements.

 

[LINative13]

Yup! As long as the Lincoln Navigator isn't parked behind something giving it some shadow from current. And the same is valid for jeans with out people in it. But the chance that a current spills light objects out into such a pocket is higher than for an SUV. So, I agree with you that the trousers and her other belongings didn't drift but were likely dropped there. What I try to get is enough data to prove that, and there I am far from the goal.

Yup, pretty much what I'm saying. Anything being dragged through there over an extensive period of time and subject to the elements would be destroyed by the time it came out. Kind of like when a glacier moves.

 

[LINative13]

Hi LINative13, I'll try to make my theory a little more clear to you. I believe it's possible that some time after SG was little more than bones on the ground with clothes, shoes and a handbag on and near them, a storm like Irene may have raised the level of water back there above SG's remains and the pants, shoes and hand bag left the area in the direction the wind took it. They traveled from ENE to WSW until they ran out of water or came to the higher stands of grass and that's where they were found. Wave action on the hand bag may have finally opened it, scattering the contents a little.
That is a theory of mine in this thread for theories.
Try not to be so blind.

Assuming sg was in the same spot the morning after her fateful encounter with JB as the cops found her in may.....when did Irene hit? Was it September? I forget but I remember sleeping on my boat for that one. If my memory serves me correctly it was the weekend before Labor Day right?

Oh my poor boat may she rest in peace. I did get a new one (new to me). She has well over 1000 hp and can hold about 700 gallons of fuel. She's pretty too.

 

[mcme]

Assuming sg was in the same spot the morning after her fateful encounter with JB as the cops found her in may.....when did Irene hit? Was it September? I forget but I remember sleeping on my boat for that one. If my memory serves me correctly it was the weekend before Labor Day right?

Oh my poor boat may she rest in peace. I did get a new one (new to me). She has well over 1000 hp and can hold about 700 gallons of fuel. She's pretty too.

Google says 8/28/11. A little over a year after she went missing.

 

[LINative13]

OK so I was pretty dead on, not bad. Irene was a bust; looked alot worse on paper than it actually was. But anyway, if her jeans were carried out by water and through all that bramble crap, they would have been in pieces. I mean ripped apart, probably never to be found again. Were they planted? I also find it weird that her sister was able to find an earring, but missed the jeans and wallet when they searched OB. Did someone put those jeans there after it was announced that SCPD would be returning to OB?

 

[LINative13]

I also do not think CPH is broke. In fact I am about 99% sure he is not. Maybe afdter this legal battle he might; but I do not think he is at the moment.

 

[deedee21]

I also do not think CPH is broke. In fact I am about 99% sure he is not. Maybe afdter this legal battle he might; but I do not think he is at the moment.

I think this case will go into unexpected directions that noone anticipated if it goes to deposition. I think theres alot that was not said yet about others in Oak Beach. It will be revealing.

 

[shadowraiths]

Another theory that I've tossed around involves a pseudo sex ring similar to the SD gang sex rings ( link )

The gang members allegedly recruited prostitutes using such social networking sites as MySpace, Facebook and Twitter, Duffy said. The gang members would target runaways or girls from broken homes. Investigators allege the gang members would often gift the women and girls to each other.​

The primary reason this seems plausible has to do with the fact that shannan's pimp was initially her driver.

It was through Lace Party Girls that she met Alex Diaz, a driver for the agency who made $400 to $800 a day. His record haul was $2,600 in one day, he said. Diaz, a 29-year-old man with dark, shaggy hair, said he and Gilbert became a couple around 2008.​

 

[Tugela]

I did consider wildlife; however, what I was pointing out is that LE stated in the MSM that the jeans fell off of her. The way it was phrased indicated that they fell off while she was running. I was merely pointing out how ridiculous that theory is. Trust me, I wear skinny jeans all the time. They are never going to simply fall off when the wearer is running. That was a ridiculous thing for them to say.

I don't know anything about the state of the jeans. I was commenting on what LE stated. That's all I have to go off of-the reports in MSM by LE. I don't know the degree to which LE believes that the jeans fell off as she ran, but that is what they stated. It's an absolutely asinine thing for them to say, IMO.
.
.
This article says "slim-fitting". I've also seen them described as "skinny jeans". Either way, jeans of this type will not fall off when one is running.

They wouldn't have fallen off, but if they got snagged on something she may have gotten out of them to free herself. The other items would have been dropped at the same time.

There is also the possibility that she may not have been wearing them at the time, and just carrying them.

It would be interesting to know what exactly was dropped at the first point and what was with the body.

 

[nugzter]

It is hard to say for sure, but I have a theory he may be a "car" killer. And what I mean by this is he gets them in a vehicle and almost immediately kills them or incapacitates them, then kills them in a set location. The description from the father and the attorney focus on one thing, more Violence than sex, during the phone calls. So a sexual sadist killer is pretty spot on.
We have to assume he must have used a vehicle to pick them up. So does he have a spot chosen somewhere in the woods? Doubt full. (Why not just leave the bodies there at the kill site) Does he have a house/warehouse/shed? Possible. Does he have a vehicle large enough to do what he does? I believe so. A van of some sort.
It is just a thought, but Ridgeway would pick the girls up in his truck, and as soon as he had the opportunity, he would strike. Either in his car or in a wooded area, sometimes in his home when he was single. It varied depending on his current situation. But the LISK seems to more methodical, less impulse driven.

 

[Aleph]

It is hard to say for sure, but I have a theory he may be a "car" killer.

RSBM.

I have wondered about this too. There's a big parking lot near the beach, right? I have wondered if this is where the killings may have taken place.