Premeditated?

[Anti-K]

Good point. I want to revise my theory as follows: The person who created the garrote had never made one himself before but had a conceptual idea of how one would be created. The person made a garrote how they imagined one would be created, even though they had no actual knowledge of how to create one. As we see, what they made only appears to be a garrote but would be completely useless as an actual garrote (17 inch distance between the stick and the slip knot). Of the three RDI suspects, who can we say would be most likely to create something like this? Can any of the three RDI suspects be ruled out as the creator of the garrote? Your thoughts?

The killer didn’t make a garrote, he made a simple noose using a slip knot and someone in LE or someone in the media dubbed it a garrote.

The garrote this killer made was good enough to asphyxiate his victim to death which disproves your claim that what he made was completely useless.
The “17 inch distance between the stick and the slip knot” is an expected, completely efficient, functional, and reasonable distance. Here’s one of my garrote videos: http://tinyurl.com/mg4vvhr

IIRC, the length between slip knot and my hand (stick, if I was holding on one) is 21 or 22 inches. It works just fine. I’ve played around with
constructing and using garrotes of this type quite extensively. I once used a length of cord between slip knot and stick in excess of 12 feet. Yes, 12 feet – I ran the cord up from the object I was garrotting to a pulley hanging from the ceiling and all the way back down again. It worked fine, except for the time the pulley pulled free and fell on me!

I noticed that you posted a link to Delmar England’s knot analysis. This document is error ridden and virtually every claim in it has been clearly and irrefutable debunked in one way or another. I’ve personally corresponded with Delmar, and I have met his every challenge and disproved him on every count (my use of lengths of cord in excess of 17 inches between knot and handle is a clear example of this).
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

To me this just means there was a lot more hair entwined in the knot around her neck and this was interfering with the autopsy so he had to cut it. There was less hair in the garrote knot and it wasn't interfering with the autopsy so no mention of it. What is your point?

The hair was attached to the victim at one end and the knot at the other end, so, Meyer had to cut the hair so that he could remove the ligature.

My point is that there is no source stating that Meyer cut the hair that was entwined in the cord wrapped around the handle. If he didn’t cut the hair, than the hair entwined in the cord wrapped around the handle must not have been attached to the victim – it had been pulled free when the used pulled the handle.
...

AK

 

[Anyhoo]

The hair was attached to the victim at one end and the knot at the other end, so, Meyer had to cut the hair so that he could remove the ligature.

My point is that there is no source stating that Meyer cut the hair that was entwined in the cord wrapped around the handle. If he didn’t cut the hair, than the hair entwined in the cord wrapped around the handle must not have been attached to the victim – it had been pulled free when the used pulled the handle.
...

AK

Ok I agree with that point

 

[Anyhoo]

The killer didn’t make a garrote, he made a simple noose using a slip knot and someone in LE or someone in the media dubbed it a garrote.

The garrote this killer made was good enough to asphyxiate his victim to death which disproves your claim that what he made was completely useless.
The “17 inch distance between the stick and the slip knot” is an expected, completely efficient, functional, and reasonable distance. Here’s one of my garrote videos: http://tinyurl.com/mg4vvhr

IIRC, the length between slip knot and my hand (stick, if I was holding on one) is 21 or 22 inches. It works just fine. I’ve played around with
constructing and using garrotes of this type quite extensively. I once used a length of cord between slip knot and stick in excess of 12 feet. Yes, 12 feet – I ran the cord up from the object I was garrotting to a pulley hanging from the ceiling and all the way back down again. It worked fine, except for the time the pulley pulled free and fell on me!

I noticed that you posted a link to Delmar England’s knot analysis. This document is error ridden and virtually every claim in it has been clearly and irrefutable debunked in one way or another. I’ve personally corresponded with Delmar, and I have met his every challenge and disproved him on every count (my use of lengths of cord in excess of 17 inches between knot and handle is a clear example of this).
...

AK

Until I saw your video I had a fundamental misunderstanding of the garrote. What I thought (and perhaps I am not the only one here who thought it) was that the garrote was the "twist type", where a rope or wire is wrapped around the neck and then a handle is twisted near the neck, tightening the noose around the neck. But in your video, you show that the garrote is the "pull type", where the handle is pulled to tighten the noose around the neck. This misunderstanding on my part explains some of my comments about the garrote and I realize now that they are inaccurate based upon this new information.

I agree that the garrote was not useless and that it was in fact good enough to kill the victim. I also agree that the 17" distance is not unreasonable, based upon the way this type of garrote functioned. I quoted Delmar England because his views agreed with mine when I thought the garrote was the twist type. Perhaps Delmar's comments were also based on a misunderstanding of the garrote, but I agree with you that his views seem not to be accurate based upon the video you showed.

So, where does this new information leave me in term of the murder of JB? Contrary to what I said previously, it does not appear to be pure staging. It appears to be a fully functional garrote. Here are some questions I pose to anyone to answer, RDI or IDI:

1. What does it mean that the knot in the stick part of this garrote was tied in such close proximity to JB that her hair was entwined in the knot? Why not create the garrote before instead of crafting it on the spot in the basement?

2. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had the head blow already been inflicted?

3. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had JB already been strangled to death?

4. If we assume RDI, who in the family would have the knowledge and ability to create this garrote?

 

[Anti-K]

Until I saw your video I had a fundamental misunderstanding of the garrote. What I thought (and perhaps I am not the only one here who thought it) was that the garrote was the "twist type", where a rope or wire is wrapped around the neck and then a handle is twisted near the neck, tightening the noose around the neck. But in your video, you show that the garrote is the "pull type", where the handle is pulled to tighten the noose around the neck. This misunderstanding on my part explains some of my comments about the garrote and I realize now that they are inaccurate based upon this new information.

I agree that the garrote was not useless and that it was in fact good enough to kill the victim. I also agree that the 17" distance is not unreasonable, based upon the way this type of garrote functioned. I quoted Delmar England because his views agreed with mine when I thought the garrote was the twist type. Perhaps Delmar's comments were also based on a misunderstanding of the garrote, but I agree with you that his views seem not to be accurate based upon the video you showed.

So, where does this new information leave me in term of the murder of JB? Contrary to what I said previously, it does not appear to be pure staging. It appears to be a fully functional garrote. Here are some questions I pose to anyone to answer, RDI or IDI:

1. What does it mean that the knot in the stick part of this garrote was tied in such close proximity to JB that her hair was entwined in the knot? Why not create the garrote before instead of crafting it on the spot in the basement?

2. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had the head blow already been inflicted?

3. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had JB already been strangled to death?

4. If we assume RDI, who in the family would have the knowledge and ability to create this garrote?

I would not be surprised to find out that Delmar England and Komrik were the same person. I don’t think that they are, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Delmar’s and Komrik’s “analysis” are clever works of fiction with much in common. Anyway...

In his analysis Delmar does misinterpret the knot, but he also misinterprets almost everything, in particular the AR and, as he states, “physics, physics, physics.” Delmar’s claim is that the ligature around the neck was of a fixed size, incapable of being tightened (made smaller in size) around the neck. It was a fixed size loop tied as snug against the flesh as possible and that the furrow was the result of post-mortem bloat. IMO Delmar and his claims aren’t worth discussing so I’ll just stop now.

Before going further I would like to tell you about some of my experiences experimenting with knots and garrotes and handles and loops and cords and...

I don’t know the exact knot that was used for the garrote, but I do know that it is a slip knot. You could tie a clip knot. Anyone could. It’s the sort of knot that you could invent without even thinking about it, just by doing it. I have experience with five or six variations. They all tighten (make the loop around the neck smaller) the same way, with the same ease. Some loosen with ease (like the one in my video), some need a good tug, and some don’t loosen at all. I don’t know which variation was used on Jonbenet.

Using the same and similar type cord as was used in this case, I have ripped aluminum cans in half, I have folded sheets of tin in half. I have created circumferential furrows in all manner of objects, all manner of sizes including one as big around as my waist. One hard, short pull.

Besides this cord, I have experimented with string, rope of various thickness, flat cord, round cord, hollow cord, electrical extension cord, telephone cable, USB cables, wire; and more. IMO, the cord used by the killer was perfect. If he wanted to asphyxiate his victim to death in a quick, simple and almost effortless way then he could not have made a better choice in using this cord.

I’ve done other bizarre things: suspended a propane bottle and free weights so I could cut the cord while stressed by the weight; drove to the store (a stick shift) with my hands tied 15. 5 inches apart – just like jbr’s hands. Not related to the ligatures, but I once broke a baseball sized piece of glass and stuffed it in my pocket to see if it would be possible to hide it, and walk around and dispose of it.... (don’t ask! )

I want to reply to your listed questions but this is too long already. I’ll do that in my next post.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

1. What does it mean that the knot in the stick part of this garrote was tied in such close proximity to JB that her hair was entwined in the knot? Why not create the garrote before instead of crafting it on the spot in the basement?

2. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had the head blow already been inflicted?

3. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had JB already been strangled to death?

4. If we assume RDI, who in the family would have the knowledge and ability to create this garrote?

1. What does it mean that the knot in the stick part of this garrote was tied in such close proximity to JB that her hair was entwined in the knot? Why not create the garrote before instead of crafting it on the spot in the basement?

Tying the slip knot is easiest if you do it on the victim. Otherwise, you have to make a loop large enough to slip over her head. Handling a loop this large, slipping it over the head and then shrinking it up close enough to the neck for the tightening is just awkward and it takes longer. You could wrap the cord around the handle ahead of time, but it would be just as easy to do it at the same time that you’re tying the slip knot, which means while in close proximity to the victim.

It is also possible that the handle was improvisational – the killer had his victim on the floor and, while tying the slip knot, he noticed the paint tote, because it was so close to him, and realized that the paint brush would make a fine handle.

2. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had the head blow already been inflicted?

Opinions vary, but I think head blow first would explain why there are no definitive signs of struggle.

3. At the time the knot was tied around the stick, had JB already been strangled to death?

It is possible that the ligature had been pulled tight enough to begin the asphyxiation before the cord was wrapped around the handle, and then after the handle was attached it was pulled to further tighten the ligature. There is simply no way to tell.

4. If we assume RDI, who in the family would have the knowledge and ability to create this garrote?

We don’t have to assume RDI to answer this question. Any of the Ramseys could have tied a slip knot. Of course, we don’t know which variation was used in this case and some are trickier than others, but in general I think we could say that any of them PROBABLY could have tied this.

However, we have what are IMO three different knots here, if we count the cord wrapped around the handle as a knot. The same knot would have worked just as well and the use of three different knots suggests someone with some degree of experience with knots. Mr Ramsey should have had some experience with knots, but that doesn’t mean that he had experience with these knots.

Often, people learn the knots that they need to learn and those are the knots that they always use. So, I think what you – as RDI - would need to know which types of knots Mr Ramsey was familiar with, and those would likely be whatever knots he used for boating.
...

AK

 

[Anyhoo]

I would not be surprised to find out that Delmar England and Komrik were the same person. I don’t think that they are, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Delmar’s and Komrik’s “analysis” are clever works of fiction with much in common. Anyway...

In his analysis Delmar does misinterpret the knot, but he also misinterprets almost everything, in particular the AR and, as he states, “physics, physics, physics.” Delmar’s claim is that the ligature around the neck was of a fixed size, incapable of being tightened (made smaller in size) around the neck. It was a fixed size loop tied as snug against the flesh as possible and that the furrow was the result of post-mortem bloat. IMO Delmar and his claims aren’t worth discussing so I’ll just stop now.

Before going further I would like to tell you about some of my experiences experimenting with knots and garrotes and handles and loops and cords and...

I don’t know the exact knot that was used for the garrote, but I do know that it is a slip knot. You could tie a clip knot. Anyone could. It’s the sort of knot that you could invent without even thinking about it, just by doing it. I have experience with five or six variations. They all tighten (make the loop around the neck smaller) the same way, with the same ease. Some loosen with ease (like the one in my video), some need a good tug, and some don’t loosen at all. I don’t know which variation was used on Jonbenet.

Using the same and similar type cord as was used in this case, I have ripped aluminum cans in half, I have folded sheets of tin in half. I have created circumferential furrows in all manner of objects, all manner of sizes including one as big around as my waist. One hard, short pull.

Besides this cord, I have experimented with string, rope of various thickness, flat cord, round cord, hollow cord, electrical extension cord, telephone cable, USB cables, wire; and more. IMO, the cord used by the killer was perfect. If he wanted to asphyxiate his victim to death in a quick, simple and almost effortless way then he could not have made a better choice in using this cord.

I’ve done other bizarre things: suspended a propane bottle and free weights so I could cut the cord while stressed by the weight; drove to the store (a stick shift) with my hands tied 15. 5 inches apart – just like jbr’s hands. Not related to the ligatures, but I once broke a baseball sized piece of glass and stuffed it in my pocket to see if it would be possible to hide it, and walk around and dispose of it.... (don’t ask! )

I want to reply to your listed questions but this is too long already. I’ll do that in my next post.
...

AK

Is it your opinion the killer chose the cord/rope purposefully because he was practiced at making garrotes? In other words, not for convenience but because it was, as you say, perfect for what he intended it for?

Do you believe the killer was experienced/had prior experience in making garrotes such as this? I mean, if I were going to make a garrote, I wouldn't know where to even begin. I would think the killer would have to have had prior experience in making a garrote like this. If so, what are the ramifications of this?

 

[DeDee]

From the AR at the Denver Post:

"Blonde hair is entwined in the knot on the posterior aspect of the neck as well as in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick..."

ST p 41:

"Blond hair was snared in the knot, and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord, which was tied more like a noose than a twisting garrote."

The killer utilized the wooden paintbrush and brown cotton gloves for pulling the cord tightly to avoid cuts or rope burns on their own hands, imo.

The flat nylon cord wrapped, off center, on the 4 1/2" broken wooden paintbrush suggests, to me, that the wooden paintbrush may have [been] broken at the bristle end after the cord was attached to it.

Furthermore, it appears the sealed end, or the beginning of the cord, is the portion attached to the wooden garrote. Thus, perhaps, attaching a handle was always the plan. Otherwise, why leave a 4" tail on one end of the knot and a 17" plus tail on the other end?

Two wires were inventoried:

Wire tied in knot (5BAH)
Wire near body (7KKY)

Maybe the killer first considered using wire to strangle the young 6yo victim until they realized it would cut through her flesh, thereby, possibly beheading her.

smo

 

[Mama2JML]

From the AR at the Denver Post:

"Blonde hair is entwined in the knot on the posterior aspect of the neck as well as in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick..."

ST p 41:

"Blond hair was snared in the knot, and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord, which was tied more like a noose than a twisting garrote."

The killer utilized the wooden paintbrush and brown cotton gloves for pulling the cord tightly to avoid cuts or rope burns on their own hands, imo.

Good call; it's a possibility. I do believe the gloves served "whomever" well, forensically speaking.

The flat nylon cord wrapped, off center, on the 4 1/2" broken wooden paintbrush suggests, to me, that the wooden paintbrush may have [been] broken at the bristle end after the cord was attached to it.

...another possibility I hadn't really considered. Maybe.

Furthermore, it appears the sealed end, or the beginning of the cord, is the portion attached to the wooden garrote. Thus, perhaps, attaching a handle was always the plan. Otherwise, why leave a 4" tail on one end of the knot and a 17" plus tail on the other end?

Great point. I agree.

F

Two wires were inventoried:

Wire tied in knot (5BAH)
Wire near body (7KKY)

Maybe the killer first considered using wire to strangle the young 6yo victim until they realized it would cut through her flesh, thereby, possibly beheading her.

smo

This evidence has always intrigued me. I sure wish we had access to photos of the wire...

 

[Anti-K]

Is it your opinion the killer chose the cord/rope purposefully because he was practiced at making garrotes? In other words, not for convenience but because it was, as you say, perfect for what he intended it for?

Do you believe the killer was experienced/had prior experience in making garrotes such as this? I mean, if I were going to make a garrote, I wouldn't know where to even begin. I would think the killer would have to have had prior experience in making a garrote like this. If so, what are the ramifications of this?

I think he was experienced at tying knots, and a slip knot is a very common and useful knot. This is the sort of knot one might use to secure your dog to a post, or attach your fishing line to a hook, or a tent flap to a peg, or a thread to a needle. It’s used in knitting and to crotchet. It’s used to secure all manner of loads to whatever you want to tie them down to.

I think the killer had experience with using a slip knot for other reasons, but he realized that it could also be used to kill someone.

As IDI, I do think that this crime was planned in advance, and I think that the cord was chosen because it would work best for what he intended to do.

One thing about this type of garrote that I don’t see often considered is that it doesn’t really allow for user participation. You just pull it until it’s tight enough to do the job and then you let go. The asphyxiation continues without you. It’s impersonal and the opposite of what one might expect from a perpetrator who was sexually or “emotionally” motivated.

This type of garrote is quite simply a practical and efficient killing tool (depending on victim, of course). It reminds me of the head blow. No anger, no rage, just one very hard and direct blow. Practical, efficient. Some people are quite experienced with striking these sorts of blows: carpenters, outdoorsman, and the like. The same sort of people who are often familiar with a variety of knots.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

From the AR at the Denver Post:

"Blonde hair is entwined in the knot on the posterior aspect of the neck as well as in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick..."

ST p 41:

"Blond hair was snared in the knot, and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord, which was tied more like a noose than a twisting garrote."

The killer utilized the wooden paintbrush and brown cotton gloves for pulling the cord tightly to avoid cuts or rope burns on their own hands, imo.

The flat nylon cord wrapped, off center, on the 4 1/2" broken wooden paintbrush suggests, to me, that the wooden paintbrush may have [been] broken at the bristle end after the cord was attached to it.

Furthermore, it appears the sealed end, or the beginning of the cord, is the portion attached to the wooden garrote. Thus, perhaps, attaching a handle was always the plan. Otherwise, why leave a 4" tail on one end of the knot and a 17" plus tail on the other end?

Two wires were inventoried:

Wire tied in knot (5BAH)
Wire near body (7KKY)

Maybe the killer first considered using wire to strangle the young 6yo victim until they realized it would cut through her flesh, thereby, possibly beheading her.

smo

There is no significance to the length of the tails. Their length is simply a function of 1) type of knot used, and, 2) overall cord length.
...

AK

 

[Mama2JML]

There is no significance to the length of the tails. Their length is simply a function of 1) type of knot used, and, 2) overall cord length.
...

AK

You could be right, AK.

...OR, the "tails" & frayed ends may have been the result of cuts made to the cord, under pressure, after the perp's intended purpose was accomplished.

 

[DeeDee249]

Good point. I want to revise my theory as follows: The person who created the garrote had never made one himself before but had a conceptual idea of how one would be created. The person made a garrote how they imagined one would be created, even though they had no actual knowledge of how to create one. As we see, what they made only appears to be a garrote but would be completely useless as an actual garrote (17 inch distance between the stick and the slip knot). Of the three RDI suspects, who can we say would be most likely to create something like this? Can any of the three RDI suspects be ruled out as the creator of the garrote? Your thoughts?

I don't think we can rule any of them out. They ALL knew how to tie knots (they were sailors) and BR was a Boy Scout, wasn't he? Anyone with a boat knows how to tie knots, even if only simple ones. This knot and garrote device was not complicated. Smit and his ilk liked to portray this as some super-sophisticated strangulation device. It wasn't a noose and not a real garrote - it was just a simple knot that anyone would tie. I don't think it was even a slip knot. It was just a knot, and to actually strangle her, the cord had to be wound tight. It didn't seem like the cord had to be pulled via the knot to do it. If the handle had any function at all, I see it as what it has been said to be- a handle. Used to grasp the cord so it can be easily wound.
Patsy made a comment to interviewers that BR was "always playing with a rope, trying to make a boat or something". This doesn't mean HE made the garrote but it means he could have.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't think we can rule any of them out. They ALL knew how to tie knots (they were sailors) and BR was a Boy Scout, wasn't he? Anyone with a boat knows how to tie knots, even if only simple ones. This knot and garrote device was not complicated. Smit and his ilk liked to portray this as some super-sophisticated strangulation device. It wasn't a noose and not a real garrote - it was just a simple knot that anyone would tie. I don't think it was even a slip knot. It was just a knot, and to actually strangle her, the cord had to be wound tight. It didn't seem like the cord had to be pulled via the knot to do it. If the handle had any function at all, I see it as what it has been said to be- a handle. Used to grasp the cord so it can be easily wound.
Patsy made a comment to interviewers that BR was "always playing with a rope, trying to make a boat or something". This doesn't mean HE made the garrote but it means he could have.

DeeDee249,
ITA. Also someone deliberately asphyxiated JonBenet, regardless of how and where this was accomplished.

To asphyxiate JonBenet no ligature or paintbrush handle was required, simply a hand over her mouth, a pillow, plastic bag etc.

So the question to ask, is why does any Intruder intent on a prompt exit wish to waste time with ligature/paintbrush construction, redressing JonBenet and wiping her down as per Coroner Meyer's AR verbatim remarks?

With JonBenet's hair interlaced, entwined, incorporated, select your favorite adjective, into the knotting of the ligature and with JonBenet's hair caught at the front, under the ligature, all suggesting the ligature was applied as JonBenet was face down on some surface.

It is doubtful if much force was used to affix the ligature/paintbrush handle, since there is next to no internal muscular damage to JonBenet's neck and her adam's apple was not damaged or crushed in any manner. Coroner Meyer used cross sectional samples to arrive at the latter opinion.

If the ligature/paintbrush handle had been used as advertised JonBenet's neck and internal structures would have sustained corresponding damage there was none!

JonBenet may have been ligature asphyxiated upstairs and brought downstairs so to stage some kind of crime-scene. Otherwise why not simply manually strangle JonBenet and deposit her in the wine-cellar or any other room in the basement, since its an IDI scenario is it not?

Patently someone saw the paintbrush, thought aha, lets hide any prior neck injuries with a ligature/paintbrush handle?

She may have been redressed upstairs or downstairs, with her pink barbie nightgown deposited in the wine-cellar, this might lend more credence to it being downstairs?

IMO the balance of evidence suggests that the ligature/paintbrush handle is an attempt at crime-scene staging, intent on masking any prior injuries to JonBenet's neck.


.

 

[Anyhoo]

I think he was experienced at tying knots, and a slip knot is a very common and useful knot. This is the sort of knot one might use to secure your dog to a post, or attach your fishing line to a hook, or a tent flap to a peg, or a thread to a needle. It’s used in knitting and to crotchet. It’s used to secure all manner of loads to whatever you want to tie them down to.

I think the killer had experience with using a slip knot for other reasons, but he realized that it could also be used to kill someone.

As IDI, I do think that this crime was planned in advance, and I think that the cord was chosen because it would work best for what he intended to do.

One thing about this type of garrote that I don’t see often considered is that it doesn’t really allow for user participation. You just pull it until it’s tight enough to do the job and then you let go. The asphyxiation continues without you. It’s impersonal and the opposite of what one might expect from a perpetrator who was sexually or “emotionally” motivated.

This type of garrote is quite simply a practical and efficient killing tool (depending on victim, of course). It reminds me of the head blow. No anger, no rage, just one very hard and direct blow. Practical, efficient. Some people are quite experienced with striking these sorts of blows: carpenters, outdoorsman, and the like. The same sort of people who are often familiar with a variety of knots.
...

AK

I realize you are IDI and while I admit, as RDI, that it is difficult for me to conceive of a parent using this device to brutally strangle their daughter to death, it is for this precise reason that I think someone in the family chose it. It screams IDI and points away from any family member, but I contend this is exactly WHY it was chosen. I don't believe for a second that BR made this garrote but either parent could have. Just because we don't want to believe a parent would do this to the child they supposedly love does not mean it is not possible for them to have done it. My prime suspect for making the garrote is JR. PR doesn't strike me as someone who would know how to make this but it's still possible. BR is the least I would suspect of knowing how to make this and knowing how to use it. When you eliminate the impossible, what you have left is the truth, however unlikely.

 

[Anyhoo]

I don't think we can rule any of them out. They ALL knew how to tie knots (they were sailors) and BR was a Boy Scout, wasn't he? Anyone with a boat knows how to tie knots, even if only simple ones. This knot and garrote device was not complicated. Smit and his ilk liked to portray this as some super-sophisticated strangulation device. It wasn't a noose and not a real garrote - it was just a simple knot that anyone would tie. I don't think it was even a slip knot. It was just a knot, and to actually strangle her, the cord had to be wound tight. It didn't seem like the cord had to be pulled via the knot to do it. If the handle had any function at all, I see it as what it has been said to be- a handle. Used to grasp the cord so it can be easily wound.
Patsy made a comment to interviewers that BR was "always playing with a rope, trying to make a boat or something". This doesn't mean HE made the garrote but it means he could have.

You should play AK's video of the garrote in action. After I saw that I doubt a 9 year old kid is going to know how to make that. I don't think the Boy Scouts teaches them how to make functional garrotes. What other purpose could this have other than to strangle someone? Just seeing the way this thing works conjures up images of a brutal murderer, except a brutal murderer would not create the garrote in the basement. They would already have it made. I just don't see BR knowing how to make that, much less knowing how to use it to strangle someone to death with it . It does not add up for me.

 

[DeeDee249]

You should play AK's video of the garrote in action. After I saw that I doubt a 9 year old kid is going to know how to make that. I don't think the Boy Scouts teaches them how to make functional garrotes. What other purpose could this have other than to strangle someone? Just seeing the way this thing works conjures up images of a brutal murderer, except a brutal murderer would not create the garrote in the basement. They would already have it made. I just don't see BR knowing how to make that, much less knowing how to use it to strangle someone to death with it . It does not add up for me.

To me, this isn't a functional garrote. A true garrote isn't tied or knotted- it is placed around the neck and the two ends held in the two hands of the killer, then crossed and pulled. To me, this is just a piece of cord tied tightly in a knot around her neck- then a "makeshift" handle was attached. It never functioned as a true garrote. Neither was it a true noose either. I obviously wasn't suggesting that the Boy Scouts teach how to make a functional garrote. But they DO teach how to make knots.

 

[Anyhoo]

To me, this isn't a functional garrote. A true garrote isn't tied or knotted- it is placed around the neck and the two ends held in the two hands of the killer, then crossed and pulled. To me, this is just a piece of cord tied tightly in a knot around her neck- then a "makeshift" handle was attached. It never functioned as a true garrote. Neither was it a true noose either. I obviously wasn't suggesting that the Boy Scouts teach how to make a functional garrote. But they DO teach how to make knots.

Well I am confused and don't know what to believe about the garrote. We have one side saying the garrote was functional enough to kill JB and another side saying that it was not functional and just created to give the appearance of a functional garrote. It shouldn't be this difficult to determine the truth about this aspect of the crime. Can someone clear this up?

 

[Anti-K]

You could be right, AK.

...OR, the "tails" & frayed ends may have been the result of cuts made to the cord, under pressure, after the perp's intended purpose was accomplished.

On this point, I am right. Think it through. Start with tying the slip knot. Do you tie it in the middle of your length of cord, or do you tie it close to one end of the cord? Also, imagine tying the slip knot with your cord wrapped around something, like, a neck. Try it out; think it through.

On this point, I am right beyond all reasonable doubt.
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AK

 

[Anti-K]

DeeDee249,
ITA. Also someone deliberately asphyxiated JonBenet, regardless of how and where this was accomplished.

To asphyxiate JonBenet no ligature or paintbrush handle was required, simply a hand over her mouth, a pillow, plastic bag etc.

So the question to ask, is why does any Intruder intent on a prompt exit wish to waste time with ligature/paintbrush construction, redressing JonBenet and wiping her down as per Coroner Meyer's AR verbatim remarks?

With JonBenet's hair interlaced, entwined, incorporated, select your favorite adjective, into the knotting of the ligature and with JonBenet's hair caught at the front, under the ligature, all suggesting the ligature was applied as JonBenet was face down on some surface.

It is doubtful if much force was used to affix the ligature/paintbrush handle, since there is next to no internal muscular damage to JonBenet's neck and her adam's apple was not damaged or crushed in any manner. Coroner Meyer used cross sectional samples to arrive at the latter opinion.

If the ligature/paintbrush handle had been used as advertised JonBenet's neck and internal structures would have sustained corresponding damage there was none!

JonBenet may have been ligature asphyxiated upstairs and brought downstairs so to stage some kind of crime-scene. Otherwise why not simply manually strangle JonBenet and deposit her in the wine-cellar or any other room in the basement, since its an IDI scenario is it not?

Patently someone saw the paintbrush, thought aha, lets hide any prior neck injuries with a ligature/paintbrush handle?

She may have been redressed upstairs or downstairs, with her pink barbie nightgown deposited in the wine-cellar, this might lend more credence to it being downstairs?

IMO the balance of evidence suggests that the ligature/paintbrush handle is an attempt at crime-scene staging, intent on masking any prior injuries to JonBenet's neck.


.

UKGuy writes that, “If the ligature/paintbrush handle had been used as advertised JonBenet's neck and internal structures would have sustained corresponding damage there was none!”

I’m not sure what is meant by “as advertised,” but I do know that the “neck and internal structures” as described in the AR and as seen in the autopsy photos are EXACTLY as one should expect given that the victim was asphyxiated to death due to the ligature being tightened sufficiently around her neck to occlude the carotids and jugulars which then resulted in her death.

Damage to “internal structures” are not commonly seen in strangulations of this type (look it up!), so the damage to “internal structures” is as we should expect. As for UKGuy’s bizarre denial of corresponding damage to the neck – I’m almost speechless. Read the autopsy report; look at the photographs.
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AK