Prior Vaginal Trauma

[Toltec]

JonBenet's soiled pants found on the floor of her room...who washed her up and changed her undies???

 

[DeeDee249]

JonBenet's soiled pants found on the floor of her room...who washed her up and changed her undies???

Wish LE had asked that question when they were questioning Patsy about the soiled pants in the photo.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

JB has BLOOD in her vagina, bruising too. Dance movements, gymnastics and tight clothing did NOT cause THAT, in addition- those injuries were from that day. Are you suggesting JB went to a dance contest or gymnastics meet after leaving the White's that night (while asleep, of course, as her parents said she was).
It astounds me that people will consider anything to avoid considering the one thing they should- this little girl was being sexually abused. Whether she was abused many times before or just that day/night, her injuries were not caused by bubble baths, tight clothing, dancing or gymnastics. And this is true for IDI as well as RDI.
Many young woman who are virgins will not have an intact hymen, true. This is caused by factors such as you mentioned, as well as tampon use. But JB was SIX years old, not an equestrienne, not a gymnast and did not menstruate. Her injuries were sexual assault-related.
If I found a dead little girl in a basement and her autopsy revealed the injuries JB had, I would not be thinking "Oh, she must be a gymnast or dancer".

It is my understanding that erosion caused by horseback riding, dancing or gymnastics generally doesn't take place until the mid-teens.

 

[UKGuy]

Let us not forget JBR was a pageant girl who practiced dance and various movements while learning her presentation craft. Ask any adult woman whom began active sports or horseback riding when they were 6 or 7, if their hymen was eroded at that time? I'm sure more than a few would confirm.

ChuckMaureen,

JonBenet's genitalia were compared photographically with those of healthy 6-year old girls, and the contrast was apparently striking.

At the autopsy no less, Coroner Meyer remarked that JonBenet had been subject to digital penetration and sexual contact. This is not a may have or could have its an unqualified opinion by an experienced pathologist.

digital penetration is specific unlike sustained an internal injury by way of a blunt instrument. He is stating a finger was used. Similarly sexual contact is exactly what it says and it cannot be confused with vigorous exercise or pageant training, since neither are of a sexual nature.

In plain text Coronor Meyer stated that JonBenet was sexually molested prior to her death.

Coroner Meyer was there at the autopsy, I was not, neither were you. I accept his opinion, particularly since it was corroborated by Detective Harmer's later testimony regarding JonBenet's internal injuries, which were described as chronic.

JonBenet's death is a sexually motivated homicide, its that simple.

http://www.acandyrose.com/01301997warrant.htm

Det. Arndt told Your Affiant that she personally observed Dr. John Meyer examine the vaginal and pubic areas of the deceased, Dr. Meyer stated that he observed numerous traces of a dark fiber.

Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 26, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury consistent with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that is was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact.

.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Much ado over nothing. The photos aren't genuine.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Heyya CM,

It's a difficult issue to determine, but if one accepts the birefringent material as being talcum powder and the 'cellulose' as being the filler in diaper cream, then the sexual assaults of JBR might be a 'ritual' taking place during diaper change.

Oh I dont think it has anything to do with that. The material would have to be positively identified before I'd waste time speculating. It could be a hundred different things.

 

[ella971]

Something that hit me in the gut when this first happened was her brother. Think it's possible he abused her?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Something that hit me in the gut when this first happened was her brother. Think it's possible he abused her?

Nah. The attack was too brutal, the ransom note too brutal to have been a parent, and there's no problems with abuse either before or after. Its all a myth. I suggest going by the facts reported from reputable news.

 

[ella971]

Nah. The attack was too brutal, the ransom note too brutal to have been a parent, and there's no problems with abuse either before or after. Its all a myth. I suggest going by the facts reported from reputable news.

Thanks. To me this crime as far as the garrote goes seems sophisticated. I'm confused why it's so hard to imagine a stranger could have done this. I have read all the books and threads and different opinions.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Hi Ella! It may be a little bit hard to only go by reputable news reports these days. Personally I don't feel that any of them are reputable.
There are 3 websites that have all of the information (that has been made available) on this case. There may be more, but these are the 3 I would recommend as they are reputably ran websites. Here at WS of course, Forums for Justice, and A Candy Rose. These sites do their best to publish the truth and weed out the lies that have been told over the years.

 

[LinasK]

Let us not forget JBR was a pageant girl who practiced dance and various movements while learning her presentation craft. Ask any adult woman whom began active sports or horseback riding when they were 6 or 7, if their hymen was eroded at that time? I'm sure more than a few would confirm.

Nope!:snooty: Without giving T.M.I., let's just suffice it to say, I started dancing at age 6 and I know I was riding horses at least at age 8, and I strongly disagree with your conclusion!!!

 

[ChuckMaureen]

ChuckMaureen,

JonBenet's genitalia were compared photographically with those of healthy 6-year old girls, and the contrast was apparently striking.

At the autopsy no less, Coroner Meyer remarked that JonBenet had been subject to digital penetration and sexual contact. This is not a may have or could have its an unqualified opinion by an experienced pathologist.

digital penetration is specific unlike sustained an internal injury by way of a blunt instrument. He is stating a finger was used. Similarly sexual contact is exactly what it says and it cannot be confused with vigorous exercise or pageant training, since neither are of a sexual nature.

In plain text Coronor Meyer stated that JonBenet was sexually molested prior to her death.

Coroner Meyer was there at the autopsy, I was not, neither were you. I accept his opinion, particularly since it was corroborated by Detective Harmer's later testimony regarding JonBenet's internal injuries, which were described as chronic.

JonBenet's death is a sexually motivated homicide, its that simple.

http://www.acandyrose.com/01301997warrant.htm

I expect there is a difference between "sexually molested" and "masturbated".

Unless there is evidence of rough or painful molestation, beyond "digital penetration", I do not believe anyone can say whether JBR masturbated herself using her finger(s) or if another person performed the act on her.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Nope!:snooty: Without giving T.M.I., let's just suffice it to say, I started dancing at age 6 and I know I was riding horses at least at age 8, and I strongly disagree with your conclusion!!!

I Googled, I wish I could recall the search string I used but I found comments by at least one woman who indicated she did indeed experience hymenal changes at age 6 - 7 due to her horseback riding hobby.

If one woman verifies that such a thing could occur with horseback riding at that age, I expect others might have experienced it as well since it seems logical it wouldn't be unusual and unique.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I expect there is a difference between "sexually molested" and "masturbated".

Unless there is evidence of rough or painful molestation, beyond "digital penetration", I do not believe anyone can say whether JBR masturbated herself using her finger(s) or if another person performed the act on her.

I'm starting to feel that we have already discussed all this in a thread not too long ago. That thread started having way too much info posted and this one will too if we continue to go in this direction. It was said then and should be said again, six year old girls do not masturbate themselves with their fingers inserted. Will other female posters please chime in here and back me up on this?

 

[SunnieRN]

ChuckMaureen, if you are truly interested in more information, please look at the prior vaginal trauma thread, i it's entirety, as there are a lot of sources and information listed there.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I Googled, I wish I could recall the search string I used but I found comments by at least one woman who indicated she did indeed experience hymenal changes at age 6 - 7 due to her horseback riding hobby.

If one woman verifies that such a thing could occur with horseback riding at that age, I expect others might have experienced it as well since it seems logical it wouldn't be unusual and unique.

Chuck, you might also be surprised to learn the many excuses women come up with to explain why they were no longer "virgins" when they should have been. I'm not saying this woman is lying, just kinda take that into consideration.
When I was six (I remember this well, believe me) I was trying to walk along the top of a split rail fence. Of course my mother saw me and began yelling for me to get down before I got hurt. Too late! I slipped and straddled the fence. Went down very hard. So hard that it knocked the breath out of me so bad that I actually started to turn blue before I began breathing again. My genital area (I know, TMI) turned black and blue and I could not sit for two weeks. The point is, this accident did not cause damage to my hymen, it was still well intact 18 years later. I do know that there are things that will damage the hymen, but for the most part, it takes a little more than physical activities that most little girls participate in every day. Something inserted regularly will certainly do the trick.

 

[BBB167893]

Much ado over nothing. The photos aren't genuine.

Excuse me? What is that supposed to mean?

Nah. The attack was too brutal, the ransom note too brutal to have been a parent,

That's nonsense. Not just my opinion either:

"Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes, I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children."--FBI Special Agent Ron Walker

I suggest going by the facts reported from reputable news.

You mean like Nancy Grace?

 

[BBB167893]

Hi Ella! It may be a little bit hard to only go by reputable news reports these days. Personally I don't feel that any of them are reputable.

My feelings EXACTLY!

 

[BBB167893]

Nope!:snooty: Without giving T.M.I., let's just suffice it to say, I started dancing at age 6 and I know I was riding horses at least at age 8, and I strongly disagree with your conclusion!!!

Folks might do well to listen to this one. She knows a thing or two about familial sexual abuse and signs being ignored.

 

[Toltec]

From the Files of the National Enquiror: Tom Haney was discussing JonBenet's vaginal rashes, the use of Desitin, etc...than he asks Patsy about a series of phone calls...

Tom Haney: You made three calls to Dr. Beuf's office on December 7th...Three in one day. One at 6:28pm, one at 6:50pm, and one at 6:59pm. Do you recall that day?

Patsy Ramsey: To the office or his home?

TH: To his office.

PR: No, I don't remember.

TH: Would that have been something like this, do you remember?

PR: Seems like I would have remembered, you know.

Makes you wonder if JonBenet reported some type of abuse to Patsy which caused her panic enough to want to talk to Dr. Beuf.