Quesions for RDI about Burke's role

[BBB167893]

Now, fulfill your destiny and take your father's place by my side.

I'll take that as a "yes."

In RDI, JB and PR were awake, but was JR also awake? BR?

JR possibly. Or he woke up at the moment.

While Burke may have slept through it all (what of the JB scream that RDI put stock in?)[/QUOTE

I think you'll find that the scream is pretty doubtful.

the R's would have still recon with the *possibility* that BR might have realized their guilt, and then blabbered his mouth. While they were staging they also had to deal with the possibility of BR waking up and seeing this.

I seem to recall something about how medication was used to aid sleep in the R house.

Do you think PR would have done an OJ Simpson if like Ron Goldman BR happened to see PR cleaning up JB?

On the contrary, if someone had come in at that moment, it might have saved her life.

I still find it somewhat hard to imagine that at the time PR strikes JB's head, she would probably have not understood the extent of her injuries, so instead of calling 911, she and JR decide to garrote her and stage her death.

Speaking for myself, I don't think that's how it happened exactly.

It's also surprising that JB didn't decide, against PR, to call ER, and then come up with a story of this being an accident.

Given what I think happened, that wasn't really an option. Here, I'll try to explain both at once: PR is about to call for help, JR comes in, she blitzes him, they fight for a bit, he wants to save her, PR won't let him, and by then both figure it's too late. You can find the whole thing in the "Member's Theories" thread.

So at the time JB's head was struck, she was still alive and breathing, JB, PR, and possibly BR agree to keep quiet and then murder her and stage the crime scene. Then got really lucky with DNA. I suppose this is possible.

You're making this a lot harder than it has to be.

I think though it might be even more likely that PR did everything herself with BR and JR both sleeping.

Maybe so.

See that guy over there with a red light saber, black mask, cape, and breathing respirator? -- he owes me some money

I'm guessing that's supposed to be me? (There aren't any OTHER black-masked guys around!) But I can't figure the "money" bit.

PR alone would avoid many possibilities that PR+JR or PR+JR+BR would have.

As Ben Franklin once said, "two people can keep a secret, and that's if one of them is dead."

Actually though I'm surprised PR didn't attempt a Jeffrey MacDonald on the entire family and claimed it was an intruder "acid is groovy"

She was sure in the right town for it.

What makes ST think JR figured it out after reading the RN? Did PR write the RN with the forethought JR would figure it out? And what about others also figuring it out, did she anticipate that?

I believe ST based it on the idea that a husband knows his wife. (Which raises some interesting questions.)

At the moment JB was struck, was she bleeding, was there hair?

How do you mean?

[QUOTEHave they done a luminol test to find this blood in where it supposedly happened with the object it happened?

I can't remember. Haney mentioned blood on the pillow, though.

 

[DeeDee249]

I, for one, would be thrilled to see the DNA match someone that can actually be named. But for that person to be associated with the crime itself, the DNA must also be on articles tied ONLY to the crime - like the garrote, and the paintbrush handle of the garrote, the tape, the blanket. The DRYER door (I bet no one thought to test THAT). An intruder's prints those places, especially if they are one and the same actually could give IDI MUCH more credibility. If a fingerprint could have been obtained from inside her vaginal area- that'd solve the crime immediately. Today, they have such methods. 1996- I am not so sure. Now it's too late, after 13 years in an Atlanta grave.
If this crime truly and honestly did turn out to be IDI and the intruder was named and linked absolutely by evidence and DNA to the crime, this is one RDI who would be thrilled. Happy to have it solved, happy that it WASN'T the parents after all. Happy that it was over. I take no pleasure in believing that the Rs did this to their little girl, though it may have happened unintentionally at first. But that's where the evidence points as far as I can see. I'd love to be proved wrong. That's PROVED.

 

[Ames]

I, for one, would be thrilled to see the DNA match someone that can actually be named. But for that person to be associated with the crime itself, the DNA must also be on articles tied ONLY to the crime - like the garrote, and the paintbrush handle of the garrote, the tape, the blanket. The DRYER door (I bet no one thought to test THAT). An intruder's prints those places, especially if they are one and the same actually could give IDI MUCH more credibility. If a fingerprint could have been obtained from inside her vaginal area- that'd solve the crime immediately. Today, they have such methods. 1996- I am not so sure. Now it's too late, after 13 years in an Atlanta grave.
If this crime truly and honestly did turn out to be IDI and the intruder was named and linked absolutely by evidence and DNA to the crime, this is one RDI who would be thrilled. Happy to have it solved, happy that it WASN'T the parents after all. Happy that it was over. I take no pleasure in believing that the Rs did this to their little girl, though it may have happened unintentionally at first. But that's where the evidence points as far as I can see. I'd love to be proved wrong. That's PROVED.

I never thought about them testing the dryer door. If fact...there are probably alot more things that we haven't thought of that could and should be tested...in that "warehouse full of evidence".

 

[voynich]

Are you serious? And people say I'm on the dark side!

.

To non-SW, I call this "pulling off an OJ" (killing wife and silencing the witness).

To SD- (evil laughter) good Anakin! Now kill him! Kill him now. Do it. You did well. He was too dangerous to be kept alive.

 

[voynich]

I'll take that as a "yes."

SD, the time has come. Execute order 66.

 

[voynich]

I, for one, would be thrilled to see the DNA match someone that can actually be named. But for that person to be associated with the crime itself, the DNA must also be on articles tied ONLY to the crime - like the garrote, and the paintbrush handle of the garrote, the tape, the blanket. The DRYER door (I bet no one thought to test THAT). An intruder's prints those places, especially if they are one and the same actually could give IDI MUCH more credibility. If a fingerprint could have been obtained from inside her vaginal area- that'd solve the crime immediately. Today, they have such methods. 1996- I am not so sure. Now it's too late, after 13 years in an Atlanta grave.
If this crime truly and honestly did turn out to be IDI and the intruder was named and linked absolutely by evidence and DNA to the crime, this is one RDI who would be thrilled. Happy to have it solved, happy that it WASN'T the parents after all. Happy that it was over. I take no pleasure in believing that the Rs did this to their little girl, though it may have happened unintentionally at first. But that's where the evidence points as far as I can see. I'd love to be proved wrong. That's PROVED.

Of course I'm open to the Asian factory worker sneeze. I do wonder though, given all the cases from where they found trace DNA evidence of guilt or it was exculpatory

There are also cases where trace DNA was taken decades after the crime and matched to someone else, who then confessed.

 

[voynich]

I'd like to add my 2 cents to that.



That I have. Are you aware that he was consulted in this case and was one of the people who discounted the DNA? No BS.



Unfortunately, voynich, that is one of the big problems with Project Innocence. Don't take my word for it, either. Wendy Murphy talks about this very thing in her book And Justice For Some which I highly recommend. Not all DNA is equal. That's what we're trying to say. It's not the end-all, be-all it's sometimes made out to be. A lot of times, it's not enough to just have DNA at a crime scene, but what KIND and how it sizes up with the other evidence. One of my favorite authors says it best, imo:

Only in the case of rape is DNA capable of excluding a suspect, and even then if the victim was not sexually active and there was only a single rapist. In virtually all other cases, DNA can only include suspects.



Then that person would be in BIG trouble!



It's funny you mention that, voynich. Every time I watch the R-ST face-off on Larry King Live, that scene is all I can think about! JR as the Emperor (with many of the same mannerisms!), the whole bit.



If you ask me, it just means that modern investigators should not put all of their faith in technology and focus on making a more complete case. There is something to be said for the old techniques, after all.

Did Berry also discount Bode's touch DNA? If hypothetically JR were to go to jail based on fiber and post-crime statements, do you think Berry would use his Innocence Project to exonerate JR for matching DNA from two different pieces of clothes, given he has exonerated other criminals with much less DNA?

The guy defended OJ so I personally have doubts about him. The Dark Side surrounds the counselor.

Funny LOL emperor R-ST face off. Aren't you a fan of the Sith? Aren't the Sith more powerful?
So then 1 R would easily kill 3 ST's, while dueling and then killing a fourth.

I don't deny DNA could be the result of the Asian factory worker.

Re Old Technique you know that it is claimed LS solved another child kidnapping and murder based on a single palm print on a window?

 

[voynich]

JR possibly. Or he woke up at the moment.



I can't remember. Haney mentioned blood on the pillow, though.

Which scenario do you think the evidence points to, PR alone or PR + JR, or all 3 R's?

Where exactly did the lethal head blow take place, and is the evidence supported by luminol?

 

[voynich]

Mm, but seem to lean more one way. (That's my perception. If I'm wrong, just say so.) I am curious: HOTYH speaks as though all RDI were of a single collective mind. Obviously, you don't. You seem to be attacking (not the best term, I know) because of those variances. So RDI kind of gets it coming and going!

I would like to see what other and independent forensic linguists, hand writing analysis, other touch DNA, second autopsy for stun gun and "chronic" abuse, etc. (I'm sure you know there are a lot of problems with Donald Foster)

"So RDI kind of gets it coming and going!"

Your swords please. I don't want to make a mess in front of the counselor. Good. Double the pride, double the fall. :crazy:

 

[voynich]

Might. But I'm not sure he did. I don't really think about Burke that much, other than the fact that he and I have both lost our mothers.

Um, in a way, I suppose he did. He brought up something in one of his interviews that the cops didn't know about: the Swiss Army Knife found at the scene. It was his. LHP had taken it away from him and hidden it in a basement cupboard. There were only three people in the world who knew where that knife was: LHP, Burke, and Patsy R.

Well, that assumes he knew a substantial amount. Purely for the sake of argument, let's say you're correct. One of the things I heard was that the Rs had spent a lot of time and money brainwashing him. Taking him to psychiatrists, that kind of thing. Couldn't say how much of it is true. Moreover, as you often remind us (as if we needed it), fear is a very powerful weapon. One of the most powerful, in fact. Third, after a while, people start to believe their own lies. It goes back to Goebbels' "Big Lie" theory.

Are you serious? And people say I'm on the dark side!

Oh, boy. That's a whole different kettle of fish, voynich. You might get some interesting replies!

Among other things that people should know: MacDonald ALSO had no violence in his history and showed care towards the victims afterwards...

Easy: Children are easy to manipulate, for one thing. Secondly, who knows what he saw or didn't see. This assumes that he caught them red-handed as you say. I don't think he did. Even if he WAS awake when it happened, I think most kids would be trembling under the covers in fear trying to block it out. Indeed, blocking out the events could account for a lot of things


IF he saw anything.

Kill JB BY ACCIDENT. And saying "the killing will not be difficult, she will be beheaded" is just talk, imo. Look, I don't know about anyone else, but here's my take on it: it was hard enough to lose JB. At least make an attempt to keep the rest of the family together.

Personally, I like DeeDee's answer.

I've posted here on WS about MacDonald, Sheppard, Foxy Knoxy (Meredith Kercher) Smiley Face killers, and sadly, no replies. I know, boo hoo. :boohoo: I think the first three guilty based on what I've read, Smiley face killers = wishful thinking. And I think Darth Plagueis may have created Anakin.

But MacDonald (and OJ) did not know how the third party (MacDonald's children, OJ's Ron Goldman) would respond.

The R's could not predict before the fact, what BR would say, whether he would piece together what happened, or even falsely claim their parents involvement.

Even if, hypo speaking, an IDI, BR might still falsely remember or claim RDI. Psychiatry and the Big Lie could just as easily give BR false memories of RDI.

So obviously R's could not foresee what BR might do or might say, or whether the Big Lie or psychiatry would keep him shut, and the RN claims that killing would "not be difficult" the risk BR might pose and given their intentions based on the degree of staging they did, they should have at least considered doing an OJ on BR.

They have no control over what BR might do in the future, he's a wild card, a loose canon. So if they are going to stage the CS, why not bump BR off? Why even allow him to continue in school where he comes in contact with peers and teachers? What if, at school, he gets a "false memory" and falsely claims RDI and tells his classmates and peers? At least MacDonald considered this. Why not head-bash BR, and then garrote him as well as JB? Or have him and JB "missing" to increase credibility of kidnapping for RN.

I use MacDonald as a counter to your claim children are easy to manipulate. If so, why didn't MacDonald kill his wife only? And even if they are, why take the chance that their child is not or make false claims of guilt?

IMHO one scenario though where B would keep quiet is a BDI.

 

[Sophie]

Must say I always feel a bit uncomfortable talking about Burke since he couldn't be held criminally liable at the time of the offence`and, being a bit post-Freudian about it, I feel sorry for him since JBR looks to have been the fave. However, the CSI and Joyce Carol Oates scenarios always look relatively plausible....

 

[BBB167893]

To non-SW, I call this "pulling off an OJ" (killing wife and silencing the witness).

Um, that's a little different. I think OJ planned to kill anyone else who showed up.

SD, the time has come. Execute order 66.

It will be done.

Did Berry also discount Bode's touch DNA?

I don't know either way.

If hypothetically JR were to go to jail based on fiber and post-crime statements,

One can only dream.

do you think Berry would use his Innocence Project to exonerate JR for matching DNA from two different pieces of clothes, given he has exonerated other criminals with much less DNA?

Unfortunately, if not him, somebody would. Just to add to that: you say "much less DNA." But as I've been trying to explain, I think you'll find most of those cases involved rape. That didn't happen here. I reiterate:

Only in the case of rape is DNA capable of excluding a suspect, and even then if the victim was not sexually active and there was only a single rapist. In virtually all other cases, DNA can only include suspects.

The guy defended OJ so I personally have doubts about him. The Dark Side surrounds the counselor.

You said it. This guy was the top man in favor of DNA in the early days. Then OJ came along.

Funny LOL emperor R-ST face off. Aren't you a fan of the Sith? Aren't the Sith more powerful?

The dark side will always be more powerful. That wasn't my point in bringing it up, though.

So then 1 R would easily kill 3 ST's, while dueling and then killing a fourth.

That ain't the way I remember it! (Although, JR's offer was essentially the same: if you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.)

I don't deny DNA could be the result of the Asian factory worker.

Not even that, necessarily. (I sense a "but" coming.)

Re Old Technique you know that it is claimed LS solved another child kidnapping and murder based on a single palm print on a window?

I'm aware. (From what I've read, it's not quite the way RST makes it out, though.) To be honest, when I think about the old techniques, he comes to mind. Or, more accurately, LS as he should have been, without all the prejudices involved. Jim Cron is a good example.

Which scenario do you think the evidence points to, PR alone or PR + JR, or all 3 R's?

PR + JR, at least indirectly.

Where exactly did the lethal head blow take place,

My gut says the bedroom.

and is the evidence supported by luminol?

The head wound didn't bleed, voynich. So I don't see where luminol figures into it.

I would like to see what other and independent forensic linguists, hand writing analysis, other touch DNA, second autopsy for stun gun and "chronic" abuse, etc.

Wouldn't we all?

(I'm sure you know there are a lot of problems with Donald Foster)

From what I've read, the problems only started when he gave Hunter the answer he didn't want.

"So RDI kind of gets it coming and going!"

Your swords please. I don't want to make a mess in front of the counselor. Good. Double the pride, double the fall.

My powers have doubled since we last met.

But MacDonald (and OJ) did not know how the third party (MacDonald's children, OJ's Ron Goldman) would respond.

To my way of thinking, MacDonald's children and Ron Goldman weren't third parties so much.

The R's could not predict before the fact, what BR would say, whether he would piece together what happened, or even falsely claim their parents involvement.

You do what you can.

Even if, hypo speaking, an IDI, BR might still falsely remember or claim RDI. Psychiatry and the Big Lie could just as easily give BR false memories of RDI.

True, if not for one thing: how many kids want their parents in prison?

So obviously R's could not foresee what BR might do or might say, or whether the Big Lie or psychiatry would keep him shut, and the RN claims that killing would "not be difficult" the risk BR might pose and given their intentions based on the degree of staging they did, they should have at least considered doing an OJ on BR.

Maybe they should have. But I figure it took everything in them to kill JB. Keep the rest of the family together.

They have no control over what BR might do in the future, he's a wild card, a loose canon. So if they are going to stage the CS, why not bump BR off?

Because the whole point was to keep the family together as much as possible. You know, people accuse RDI of making the Rs out to be monsters. But it seems like I'm the more charitable of the two!

Why even allow him to continue in school where he comes in contact with peers and teachers? What if, at school, he gets a "false memory" and falsely claims RDI and tells his classmates and peers?

This "false memory" stuff is wasted on me. As for in school, I seem to remember they had him supervised at all times.

At least MacDonald considered this. Why not head-bash BR, and then garrote him as well as JB? Or have him and JB "missing" to increase credibility of kidnapping for RN.

The focus was ALL on JB, that's why.

I use MacDonald as a counter to your claim children are easy to manipulate. If so, why didn't MacDonald kill his wife only?

Because, if the way I heard it is correct, he'd already killed the children before he killed the wife.

And even if they are, why take the chance that their child is not or make false claims of guilt?

Who says they DID take a chance? The Chinese have a term for this: brainwashing.

IMHO one scenario though where B would keep quiet is a BDI.

Oh, boy.

 

[voynich]

Um, that's a little different. I think OJ planned to kill anyone else who showed up.

Possibly. Vincent Bugliosi in his book "Guilty! How OJ got away with murder" he produces a part of OJ's statement where he sort of hints he did not expect Ron to show up, and had to improvise.

Unfortunately, if not him, somebody would. Just to add to that: you say "much less DNA." But as I've been trying to explain, I think you'll find most of those cases involved rape. That didn't happen here. I reiterate:

Only in the case of rape is DNA capable of excluding a suspect, and even then if the victim was not sexually active and there was only a single rapist. In virtually all other cases, DNA can only include suspects.

Well a lot of cases don't get this much publicity but there are shows like 48 hours and CourtTV Justice files, where DNA found on a cigarette butt was linked to a suspect. Currently, I've heard the prosecution using DNA in the Meredith Kercher/Foxy Knoxy case.

You said it. This guy was the top man in favor of DNA in the early days. Then OJ came along.

As I recall the DNA evidence linked OJ to the crime and this did not involve rape.

The dark side will always be more powerful. That wasn't my point in bringing it up, though.

That ain't the way I remember it! (Although, JR's offer was essentially the same: if you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.)

hehe, so you're comparing ST performance against JR to Mace Windu's friends, Kolar, Kitt Fisto (hehe), and Sasse Tinn, and JR to Palpy? LOL! ST got struck down after, what 1 minute? LOL. Perhaps that is the true reason for Ani's fall.

Not even that, necessarily. (I sense a "but" coming.)

Your senses serve you well. Bury them deep.

I'm aware. (From what I've read, it's not quite the way RST makes it out, though.) To be honest, when I think about the old techniques, he comes to mind. Or, more accurately, LS as he should have been, without all the prejudices involved. Jim Cron is a good example.

I was thinking Sherlock Holmes lol.

PR + JR, at least indirectly.
My gut says the bedroom.
The head wound didn't bleed, voynich. So I don't see where luminol figures into it.

So PR gives JB pineapple, takes her upstairs. Some time later, JB wets her bed, wakes up PR, PR sees the wet bed, PR is angry, storms out, gets a flashlight, returns to the bedroom, and wacks JB hard enough to crack her skull, but, as there is no bleeding, instead of attempting to revive her or call 911, decides along with JR, put on her jacket she wore earlier that day, garrotte her and stage a crime scene, while BR is sound asleep, and they weren't worried about BR waking up at any time, and wipes the flashlight clean of fingerprints. JR is worried about the autopsy results so he stages sexual abuse, which PR is okay with. They work on the RN together then call 911.

Sure it's very elementary my dear Watson.

After all, if Jeffrey MacDonald can do it why not R's?

Is there supporting evidence such as tufts of hair skin anything to suggest the bedroom?

Luminol is very sensitive, it can detect wiped blood on a variety of surfaces, even if there is little bleeding it can help guide investigators on where blood may have been shed, even small drops.

From what I've read, the problems only started when he gave Hunter the answer he didn't want.

but they continued to pile up....

My powers have doubled since we last met.

Don't you wonder why they won't make you an RDI master?

To my way of thinking, MacDonald's children and Ron Goldman weren't third parties so much.

I should say "witnesses" if by third party you mean participatory. BR could either be witness or participatory.

You do what you can.
True, if not for one thing: how many kids want their parents in prison?
Maybe they should have. But I figure it took everything in them to kill JB. Keep the rest of the family together.

Because the whole point was to keep the family together as much as possible.

You know, people accuse RDI of making the Rs out to be monsters. But it seems like I'm the more charitable of the two!

At last we will reveal ourselves to the RDI. At last, we will have our revenge.

This "false memory" stuff is wasted on me. As for in school, I seem to remember they had him supervised at all times.

by "false memory" I mean ST and other RDI telling BR RDI, and asking BR to 'tell the truth' about their parent's involvement. Supervised in what way? In every class every minute and during lunch for every year until graduation?

The focus was ALL on JB, that's why.
Because, if the way I heard it is correct, he'd already killed the children before he killed the wife.
Who says they DID take a chance? The Chinese have a term for this: brainwashing.

I suppose your counter claim is psychologically plausible. I imagine little BR on the playground and during lunch and throughout high school and outside of school being asked from time to time about what he REALLY remembers that night.

Oh, boy.

If I were to turn and fall to the Dark Sie, of the RDI, I think BDI would be most plausible

-- the reason the R's weren't worried about BR revealing them is that they did not do it, BDI.

If BR were to claim either he or his parents did it, would you believe it, or would you say false memory?

If BR were to claim he remembers seeing the intruder and offered to the sketch artist what this intruder looked like, would you believe it, or would you say false memory?

 

[Ripley007]

Hey if you believe Ramseys did it (RDI) welcome, b/c everyone here except one, is. Among RDI there are some disputes, for example, some RDI, Ames, think JR dictated the RN and PR wrote it out, others say PR wrote it herself.

Disputes like did the head blow come first then garrote or vice versa? Did JR sexually molest JB?

I'm happy to learn that most posting here are RDI's. I still need/want to seek out total like-minded folks. I don't buy into JR dictacting the RN. I give PR full credit. I believe head-blow followed by garrote. I've NEVER bought into sexual abuse by Daddy or younger brother.

(I've wondered about older step-brother DESPITE his air-tight alibi. Want to learn more. Hidden suspect or possible set-up by PR?...)

I believe younger brother BR maybe have witnessed some things and may come forward in the future with his truths.

 

[Ravyn]

Well I believe John Andrew was cleared to fast.. But to me it looks like JR done more destoring the evidence that morning being alone in the basement and all..

 

[Ripley007]

Well I believe John Andrew was cleared to fast.. But to me it looks like JR done more destoring the evidence that morning being alone in the basement and all..

JAR "cleared too fast"...that's bothered me.

What do you all think of the book that came out a few years ago. "JonBenet The Police Files" "From the files of the National Enquirer".??? It contains "exact" transcripts from JR and PR's police interrogations.

 

[Ravyn]

Well I haven't read no books about this case, but I have seen their interrogations on the links that I have been given, to me they both acted guilty, cause if this happen to me I wouldn't destory evidence but now coming to hold my child then I'm guilty cause I would have to hold my child..

 

[Ames]

I'm happy to learn that most posting here are RDI's. I still need/want to seek out total like-minded folks. I don't buy into JR dictacting the RN. I give PR full credit. I believe head-blow followed by garrote. I've NEVER bought into sexual abuse by Daddy or younger brother.

(I've wondered about older step-brother DESPITE his air-tight alibi. Want to learn more. Hidden suspect or possible set-up by PR?...)

I believe younger brother BR maybe have witnessed some things and may come forward in the future with his truths.

Steve Thomas agrees with you on the RN...as far as Patsy ALONE writing it. There are alot of posters here that agree with you on that one. I used to believe that...but, then I thought that Patsy wouldn't have been smart enough to have written it on her own. And I believe the part that says..."Listen Carefully", was John talking to Patsy...and that she thought it was part of the RN, so she wrote it down. I do believe that she changed it around a bit, using her own words, though. On the sexual abuse subject...regarding JR and BR...I agree with you. I have never thought that they were involved in that sort of stuff with JB. Maybe she was molested....but, in my gut...I just do not believe that it was J or B that did it. I also believe as you do...I believe that Burke may know than he is letting on....and hopefully he will come forward in the future, maybe after JR's death.

 

[BBB167893]

Possibly. Vincent Bugliosi in his book "Guilty! How OJ got away with murder" he produces a part of OJ's statement where he sort of hints he did not expect Ron to show up, and had to improvise.

Mm. I simply meant that in OJ's mind, Nicole's "boyfriends" were already the enemy.

Well a lot of cases don't get this much publicity but there are shows like 48 hours and CourtTV Justice files, where DNA found on a cigarette butt was linked to a suspect.

I'm aware.

Currently, I've heard the prosecution using DNA in the Meredith Kercher/Foxy Knoxy case.

That's not one I'm familiar with.

As I recall the DNA evidence linked OJ to the crime and this did not involve rape.

True, but again, it came down to the kind of DNA. If I remember correctly, his DNA was blood, and he just happened to have cuts on his hands...

hehe, so you're comparing ST performance against JR to Mace Windu's friends, Kolar, Kitt Fisto (hehe), and Sasse Tinn, and JR to Palpy? LOL!

Nope. I'm comparing it to Luke's final battle with Vader. The attempts to win him over didn't work, so JR unleashed the legal equivalent of Sith lightning.

ST got struck down after, what 1 minute? LOL. Perhaps that is the true reason for Ani's fall.

Come again, good buddy?

Your senses serve you well. Bury them deep.

I trust my feelings.

I was thinking Sherlock Holmes lol.

That works for me!

So PR gives JB pineapple, takes her upstairs. Some time later, JB wets her bed, wakes up PR, PR sees the wet bed, PR is angry, storms out, gets a flashlight, returns to the bedroom, and wacks JB hard enough to crack her skull, but, as there is no bleeding, instead of attempting to revive her or call 911, decides along with JR, put on her jacket she wore earlier that day, garrotte her and stage a crime scene, while BR is sound asleep, and they weren't worried about BR waking up at any time, and wipes the flashlight clean of fingerprints. JR is worried about the autopsy results so he stages sexual abuse, which PR is okay with. They work on the RN together then call 911.

Not exactly. (The following is the view of SuperDave, and does not necessarily reflect the views of anyone else):

1) I don't think she woke up PR because PR never went to bed. So she still had the sweater on at the time.

2) It wasn't the wet bed itself that caused the intense rage (a contributing factor, though). It was JB's unexpected slip of "Daddy's secret."

3) I'm not sold on the idea that anyone had to go out to get the flashlight (or indeed, if it WAS the flashlight). For all I know, it was right there. Speaking from personal experience, I leave stuff everywhere.

4) There may have been a desire to call 911, but by the time PR and JR were through fighting with each other, they figured it was too late.

5) Staging the sexual abuse may not have been "okay" with PR so much as she was telling him "that part's YOUR mess, you clean it up."

Other than that, you're spot on.

Sure it's very elementary my dear Watson.

That it is.

After all, if Jeffrey MacDonald can do it why not R's?

Goes to intent, I suppose.

Is there supporting evidence such as tufts of hair skin anything to suggest the bedroom?

Fibers from the cord in JB's bed, for one. The overturned barrel of hair ties is another.

Luminol is very sensitive, it can detect wiped blood on a variety of surfaces, even if there is little bleeding it can help guide investigators on where blood may have been shed, even small drops.

All I know of is the blood on JB's pillow that Haney mentioned.

but they continued to pile up....

Largely at the DA's machinations. I think V's "Fosterama" should be required reading on this particular subject. I'll get it for you.

Don't you wonder why they won't make you an RDI master?

Shall we put that to a vote?

I should say "witnesses" if by third party you mean participatory. BR could either be witness or participatory.

In the legal sense.

At last we will reveal ourselves to the RDI. At last, we will have our revenge.

Don't bet on it.

by "false memory" I mean ST and other RDI telling BR RDI, and asking BR to 'tell the truth' about their parent's involvement.

I know what it means. You'll find I'm not very big on this New Age psychobabble stuff.

Supervised in what way? In every class every minute and during lunch for every year until graduation?

I know he had bodyguards through to high school.

I suppose your counter claim is psychologically plausible.

Thanks. That's more than I get from SOME around here.

I imagine little BR on the playground and during lunch and throughout high school and outside of school being asked from time to time about what he REALLY remembers that night.

By adults or other kids? Because I remember my own school days well, and the difference between the two.

If I were to turn and fall to the Dark Sie, of the RDI, I think BDI would be most plausible

Well, much as I hate to do it, I can see one very big aspect of it: if your son killed your daughter, he's still your son. You'd do everything to save him. I don't know what I'd do in a spot like that, and gods willing, I never will find out.

If BR were to claim either he or his parents did it, would you believe it, or would you say false memory?

I think I would believe it. But then, I'd have to give his story the once-over.

If BR were to claim he remembers seeing the intruder and offered to the sketch artist what this intruder looked like, would you believe it, or would you say false memory?

I've never given that much thought.

 

[voynich]

Not exactly. (The following is the view of SuperDave, and does not necessarily reflect the views of anyone else):

1) I don't think she woke up PR because PR never went to bed. So she still had the sweater on at the time.

2) It wasn't the wet bed itself that caused the intense rage (a contributing factor, though). It was JB's unexpected slip of "Daddy's secret."

3) I'm not sold on the idea that anyone had to go out to get the flashlight (or indeed, if it WAS the flashlight). For all I know, it was right there. Speaking from personal experience, I leave stuff everywhere.

4) There may have been a desire to call 911, but by the time PR and JR were through fighting with each other, they figured it was too late.

5) Staging the sexual abuse may not have been "okay" with PR so much as she was telling him "that part's YOUR mess, you clean it up."

Other than that, you're spot on.

.

While what you say is possible, wouldn't PR be even more pissed off at JR? I'm not PR but if JB told me she and daddy were having sex, I wouldn't bash her skull, it'd be JR I'd want to strangle.
How do you rule out sexual abuse by BR or unknown?

Given BR's bedroom proximity to JB how could he not have heard PR JR arguing?

-- I posted about the Meredith Kercher murder here at WS on another forum and sadly I got no replies. I know, boo-hoo, but this murder alleged by Foxy Knoxy has enough lurid details to make any hetero young male like me fascinated with this case -- it involves two women bisexuals and a bf, in a threesome and sex games leading to death. I've not heard of any murder quite like this.