Questions you'd like answers to... #2

[thedutchessbell]

Sorry, I guess you don't get the job of a cleaner. If you don't know what "The Cleaner" does than I am not going to go into detail for you to understand. But not to leave you totally ignorant. Watch the movie "Point of No Return."

 

[Tobiano8th]

i'm about 40% of the way through thomas' book and have re0rdered "little town" book

hard to read about this case and think anything other than RDI (by accident)......... they went to the lawyers so fast. seemingly had zero questions for the police early on, didn't care that the time for the ransom call came and went or that ransom note said "no police" (i would think anyone would mention that to the police). they hired separate lawyers for JR, PR and BR very early on.

i realize most of what i said means nothing in criminal court.......... but that doesn't mean it should mean nothing to an observer

 

[fr brown]

....hard to read about this case and think anything other than RDI (by accident)......... they went to the lawyers so fast. seemingly had zero questions for the police early on, didn't care that the time for the ransom call came and went or that ransom note said "no police" (i would think anyone would mention that to the police). they hired separate lawyers for JR, PR and BR very early on.

i realize most of what i said means nothing in criminal court.......... but that doesn't mean it should mean nothing to an observer

Often I don't put much stock in behavior evidence because people use it to confirm their biases, but the fact that 40 minutes after bringing JonBenet's body up from the basement, Ramsey was making arrangements to fly to Atlanta, leaving JonBenet's body in Boulder, makes me shake my head.

In DOI, Ramsey says that Boulder wasn't his real home. Atlanta was his real home and they needed to go home.

(I suspect that he was planning to continue on to a country without an extradition agreement.)

 

[fr brown]

Often I don't put much stock in behavior evidence because people use it to confirm their biases, but the fact that 40 minutes after bringing JonBenet's body up from the basement, Ramsey was making arrangements to fly to Atlanta, leaving JonBenet's body in Boulder, makes me shake my head.

In DOI, Ramsey says that Boulder wasn't his real home. Atlanta was his real home and they needed to go home.

(I suspect that he was planning to continue on to a country without an extradition agreement.)

I accept that John slept through the night, but he must have realized very early on that Patsy was involved.

When Ofc. French arrived on the scene, John and Patsy pointed out the ransom note on the floor near the patio door. At some point that morning, John told French that Patsy had found the note on or near the stairs. The patio door is a goodish distance away from the stairs so the note didn't get over to the door by itself. But according to his report, French was unable to ascertain which Ramsey had moved it.

Assuming John hadn't moved it, he must have wondered why Patsy didn't cop to doing it. There's nothing inherently incriminating in touching the note, but there is in not admitting you've done it. John must have wondered why she took that tack.

 

[Tobiano8th]

i have never understood the "not touching the ransom note" and apparently having contorted herself unnaturally to achieve that.

it seems if you wrote the note and you are paranoid about it, you would want to touch it upon reading it... but again, people weren't necessarily in their right minds at the time

 

[fr brown]

i have never understood the "not touching the ransom note" and apparently having contorted herself unnaturally to achieve that.

it seems if you wrote the note and you are paranoid about it, you would want to touch it upon reading it... but again, people weren't necessarily in their right minds at the time

Patsy's the only one who says the note was ever on the stairs (though at one point she even says the note was "still on the floor" when she went bounding up to meet John). In 1997 John says Patsy "showed me the note" and his recollection is the note "was still down on the first floor," but he doesn't say where. (Patsy shouldn't need to "show" him the note either; If it's on the stairs, the note's right under his feet.)

John also says that he and Patsy brought the note with them to show French at the front door, but French says John directed him through the house and pointed the note out on the floor near the patio door. The Ramseys had the police reports by that time so I'm not sure why John would say they brought the note to the front door--other than to emphasize that he can't really remember anything about that damn note.

I think the note was always on the floor by the patio door. Only Patsy says she saw it anywhere else.

In any case the idea that anyone would cart it down the hallway to lay it on the floor next to a door because the light was so good there (before dawn in the middle of winter) is beyond ridiculous.

 

[proust20]

I am new to this board. There are so many fascinating and intriguing comments by the members. It is obvious that you all are more knowledgeable than myself. But there is something that I've not seen mentioned anywhere. This is that in Nabokov's novel, Lolita dies on Christmas. I have always found it rather puzzling that JBR's headstone records her death as the 25th and not the 26th. For this to be the case, JBR would have to have perished between the the time the Rs returned home (9:30PM?) and midnight. Is that narrow a time frame possible, given the pineapple?
In general, I find the overall timeline confusing. Probably, I am not alone in this regard.
I have two questions. First, has it been confirmed that JR actually did break the basement window months before the murder? Second, how certain can it be that only the 4 Rs were in the home. The Rs could have asked a person(s) to come to the house, especially since it was a holiday night.

 

[UKGuy]

is that correct that it is almost universally agreed that JBR was conscious when strangled and fought back?............

Tobiano8th,
Nope, the opposite is the likely case. JonBenet's hyoid bone was intact at autopsy and her hands do not have any defence wounds.

JonBenet's ligature asphyxiation is probably staging designed to offer a visible explanation as to why she is either dead or in a coma, as a result of a blow to her head?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I am new to this board. There are so many fascinating and intriguing comments by the members. It is obvious that you all are more knowledgeable than myself. But there is something that I've not seen mentioned anywhere. This is that in Nabokov's novel, Lolita dies on Christmas. I have always found it rather puzzling that JBR's headstone records her death as the 25th and not the 26th. For this to be the case, JBR would have to have perished between the the time the Rs returned home (9:30PM?) and midnight. Is that narrow a time frame possible, given the pineapple?
In general, I find the overall timeline confusing. Probably, I am not alone in this regard.
I have two questions. First, has it been confirmed that JR actually did break the basement window months before the murder? Second, how certain can it be that only the 4 Rs were in the home. The Rs could have asked a person(s) to come to the house, especially since it was a holiday night.

proust20,
Midnight is about right give or take 30 minutes. It also fits the pineapple digestion time frame.

Nope, nobody has substantiated JR's claims about breaking the window. In fact the Pugh family who helped move Christmas decorations from the basement to upstairs in the week leading up to Christmas reported seeing no broken glass anywhere.

There is no certainty regarding the number of people in the Ramsey house. Former member Bluecrab suggested a theory that one of Burke's friends was on a sleepover, who was caught up in the mayhem and later cycled back to his house?

You should do a search for his posts, he was well regarded and seemed to be quite informed until, allegedly, he came under the influence of private detectives hired by the Ramsey's, so left the forum?

Check if your library has a copy of Foreign Faction by James Kolar it will answer many of your questions.

.

 

[UKGuy]

3. How did that blood get in the underwear? She's been wiped clean, but there is blood on the crotch panel - so she had to have had them on, been injured, wiped clean, and then the underwear put back on with the longjohns with the urine stain in the front - otherwise, how could the blood have gotten there? Which means she had that pair of underwear on, she was injured, the underwear were pulled up, and then someone thought better of it, pulled them down, wiped her clean and then pulled the underwear back up. How else could the blood have gotten on that part of the underwear?

1996-12-27: Search Warrant 755 15 Street, Boulder, Colorado

Det. Arndt informed Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that he observed red stains in the crotch area of the panties that the child was wearing at the time that the child's body was subjected to the external visual examination. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that the red stain appeared to be consistent with blood. Det. Arndt further informed the Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that after examining the panties (as described above), he observed the exterior pubic area of the child's body located next to the areas of the panties containing the red stains and found no visible reddish stains in that area. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that his opinion is that the evidence observed is consistent with the child's pubic area having been wiped by a cloth.

 

[Tobiano8th]

i think the R's probably think it's nice to associate JBR with christmas. i wouldn't read too much into the death's dating on the tombstone.

 

[TartLemon]

This is just a comment on the window being broken 'months' before, there would be evidence of weather encroachment on the wall and floor around the window. I don't remember any mention of that.

 

[proust20]

Has the "important" business meeting in Georgia that JR was planning to fly to on the 27th ever been pinned down as to what it involved? Something which I do not understand is that the Rs were all flying to Michigan on the 26th, including the grown children. Was that only to be an overnight trip, if JR was due to fly then to GA? And how were PR, JR and BR to get back to Boulder, or was their stay open-ended?
BR liked going to MI to light fires there. Why would he be lying in bed at 6AM when the flight was to be at 7AM? I'd think that he'd be eager and excited for this extended holiday event.

 

[kaykay543]

I accept that John slept through the night, but he must have realized very early on that Patsy was involved.

When Ofc. French arrived on the scene, John and Patsy pointed out the ransom note on the floor near the patio door. At some point that morning, John told French that Patsy had found the note on or near the stairs. The patio door is a goodish distance away from the stairs so the note didn't get over to the door by itself. But according to his report, French was unable to ascertain which Ramsey had moved it.

Assuming John hadn't moved it, he must have wondered why Patsy didn't cop to doing it. There's nothing inherently incriminating in touching the note, but there is in not admitting you've done it. John must have wondered why she took that tack.

I don't know why people accept that JR "slept through the night" I don't believe that for one second.

 

[UKGuy]

Has the "important" business meeting in Georgia that JR was planning to fly to on the 27th ever been pinned down as to what it involved? Something which I do not understand is that the Rs were all flying to Michigan on the 26th, including the grown children. Was that only to be an overnight trip, if JR was due to fly then to GA? And how were PR, JR and BR to get back to Boulder, or was their stay open-ended?
BR liked going to MI to light fires there. Why would he be lying in bed at 6AM when the flight was to be at 7AM? I'd think that he'd be eager and excited for this extended holiday event.

proust20,
There was no "important" business meeting, it was fabricated so Patsy and John could fly away interstate in an attempt to evade justice.

This would have entailed leaving JonBenet behind to decompose undiscovered in the wine-cellar and Burke at the Fernie's?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't know why people accept that JR "slept through the night" I don't believe that for one second.

kaykay543,
Some folks think the case is PDI, and that JR was hoodwinked, even after reading the ransom note.

This aspect of the PDI means that JR was telepathic in understanding Patsy's postmortem staging requirements.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>
BR liked going to MI to light fires there. Why would he be lying in bed at 6AM when the flight was to be at 7AM? I'd think that he'd be eager and excited for this extended holiday event.

Patsy stated in DoI that she and John would wait until the last moment before putting the kids in their pajamas in the car. Then they'd drive to the airport, which is about a 15-20 min trip.

 

[kaykay543]

kaykay543,
Some folks think the case is PDI, and that JR was hoodwinked, even after reading the ransom note.

This aspect of the PDI means that JR was telepathic in understanding Patsy's postmortem staging requirements.

.

LOL. This is what I was saying in the other thread. JR was in control of every aspect of that family. Still is. Yet people think he was hoodwinked by PR or didn't know what happened. Crazy to me. Just because he was smart enough to shower and change clothes; doesn't mean he wasn't up all night.

 

[UKGuy]

LOL. This is what I was saying in the other thread. JR was in control of every aspect of that family. Still is. Yet people think he was hoodwinked by PR or didn't know what happened. Crazy to me. Just because he was smart enough to shower and change clothes; doesn't mean he wasn't up all night.

kaykay543,
IMO, they were all awake all night long.

Burke is not with JonBenet sharing a bedroom, so he knows something is going on. Patsy never ever reaches bed so John knows something is up ...

All three remaining Ramsey's offer an agreed postmortem version of events that is full of holes, e.g. Burke sleeps through it all, missing the 911 call!

So we can assume that the Ramsey's are guilty of postmortem collusion.

.

 

[Logic101]

Tobiano8th,
Nope, the opposite is the likely case. JonBenet's hyoid bone was intact at autopsy and her hands do not have any defence wounds.

JonBenet's ligature asphyxiation is probably staging designed to offer a visible explanation as to why she is either dead or in a coma, as a result of a blow to her head?

.

If someone were choking you to death, you would not have defensive wounds. You would be intent on trying to deflect whatever is around your neck and there were markings on her neck to support that plus she had her own DNA under her fingernails that I believe she got trying to remove that instrument of death!