Questions you'd like answers to... #2

[Wowno17]

Wouldn't "green fecal material" be unusual? Could it be from a food dye?

I would think it would be the bile causing that.

MOO

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I would think it would be the bile causing that.

MOO

Are you saying that "green fecal material" is normal?

 

[icedtea4me]

Are you saying that "green fecal material" is normal?

The large intestine contains soft green fecal material.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet07.gif

It's in the large intestine so, no, I wouldn't say that it is unusual.

 

[Wowno17]

Are you saying that "green fecal material" is normal?

Yes. The green is caused by the bile. This isn't faecal matter from the lowest part of the digestive tract.

 

[UKGuy]

If someone were choking you to death, you would not have defensive wounds. You would be intent on trying to deflect whatever is around your neck and there were markings on her neck to support that plus she had her own DNA under her fingernails that I believe she got trying to remove that instrument of death!

Logic101,
Maybe, could be the person who applied the ligature caused the marks on her neck, or she was held by the neck in a form of choke hold, so to restrain her?

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[kaykay543]

If someone were choking you to death, you would not have defensive wounds. You would be intent on trying to deflect whatever is around your neck and there were markings on her neck to support that plus she had her own DNA under her fingernails that I believe she got trying to remove that instrument of death!

IMO the initial theory about the choking is the correct one. It was being used as a sex toy. Applied too hard and she passed out. He thought she was dead. Bashes her in the head to have a story. She screams and he realizes she wasn't dead. Ends it by strangling her to death

 

[UKGuy]

IMO the initial theory about the choking is the correct one. It was being used as a sex toy. Applied too hard and she passed out. He thought she was dead. Bashes her in the head to have a story. She screams and he realizes she wasn't dead. Ends it by strangling her to death

kaykay543,
Sure, something along these lines looks as if it took place? None of the Ramsey's needed to bash JonBenet on the head to gain her compliance.

An intruder might so the head trauma is unexplained in most folks theories.


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[Logic101]

I would think it would be the bile causing that.

MOO

IMO the initial theory about the choking is the correct one. It was being used as a sex toy. Applied too hard and she passed out. He thought she was dead. Bashes her in the head to have a story. She screams and he realizes she wasn't dead. Ends it by strangling her to death

I don’t believe that this was any kind of a sex game gone bad! I believe she was struck on the head because she wouldn’t stop struggling and trying to remove that garrote!

 

[Logic101]

Logic101,
Maybe, could be the person who applied the ligature caused the marks on her neck, or she was held by the neck in a form of choke hold, so to restrain her?

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I think the indentations under her chin and on her neck were size-right for HER NAILS, not some little boy or man.

 

[UKGuy]

I think the indentations under her chin and on her neck were size-right for HER NAILS, not some little boy or man.

Logic101,
There is a thread devoted to this topic on websleuths, the general agreement was that the marks were not caused by her nails.

But, hey, I was not there!

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[Logic101]

Logic101,
There is a thread devoted to this topic on websleuths, the general agreement was that the marks were not caused by her nails.

But, hey, I was not there!

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Not to be argumentative, but I have to go by what I can see with my own eyes! A consortium of like minded individuals does not sway me in this particular incident! I trust my own judgment more!

 

[proust20]

As has been stated on this board, the most perplexing fabrication is at the very start of the generally accepted timeline. Namely, the insistence by PR and JR that JB was soundly asleep when they carried her into the house and then up to her bed; although BR has contradicted this.
If the Rs had said from the outset that JB was in fact awake and was hungry, and so ate some pineapple, went to her room where she changed clothes for sleeping, and then her hair was put in ponytails that should have been a much simpler story than the convolutions needed to explain away these facts if JB indeed never awoke when they all came home. Ironically, by also insisting that JB did not have pineapple, it renders the IDI theory even more absurd. The best evidence is the corpse itself, as the autopsy will inevitably reveal the time of death. No amount of lying nor staging can change this. The Rs seem to have been too clever by half. Like many others, I have to wonder why JB being zonked out as they all arrive home from the party is such an essential part of their version of events.

 

[kaykay543]

As has been stated on this board, the most perplexing fabrication is at the very start of the generally accepted timeline. Namely, the insistence by PR and JR that JB was soundly asleep when they carried her into the house and then up to her bed; although BR has contradicted this.
If the Rs had said from the outset that JB was in fact awake and was hungry, and so ate some pineapple, went to her room where she changed clothes for sleeping, and then her hair was put in ponytails that should have been a much simpler story than the convolutions needed to explain away these facts if JB indeed never awoke when they all came home. Ironically, by also insisting that JB did not have pineapple, it renders the IDI theory even more absurd. The best evidence is the corpse itself, as the autopsy will inevitably reveal the time of death. No amount of lying nor staging can change this. The Rs seem to have been too clever by half. Like many others, I have to wonder why JB being zonked out as they all arrive home from the party is such an essential part of their version of events.

I absolutely believe BR that she was awake and walked up the steps. I think in trying to keep all the lies straight they forgot to tell BR to say she was asleep. I think the reason JR and PR lied was just typical distancing. Trying to make it seem as if they put her to bed and never saw her again until they found her body. I mean really it was smart on their part. That way they can't answer any questions from when they supposedly put her to bed; to when they woke up the next morning. Problem is JR messed it up when he changed his story.

 

[UKGuy]

As has been stated on this board, the most perplexing fabrication is at the very start of the generally accepted timeline. Namely, the insistence by PR and JR that JB was soundly asleep when they carried her into the house and then up to her bed; although BR has contradicted this.
If the Rs had said from the outset that JB was in fact awake and was hungry, and so ate some pineapple, went to her room where she changed clothes for sleeping, and then her hair was put in ponytails that should have been a much simpler story than the convolutions needed to explain away these facts if JB indeed never awoke when they all came home. Ironically, by also insisting that JB did not have pineapple, it renders the IDI theory even more absurd. The best evidence is the corpse itself, as the autopsy will inevitably reveal the time of death. No amount of lying nor staging can change this. The Rs seem to have been too clever by half. Like many others, I have to wonder why JB being zonked out as they all arrive home from the party is such an essential part of their version of events.

proust20,
The whole IDI story is so ridiculous most people realize this, others not used to the cognitive dissonance the Ramsey's version of events engenders assume cute millionaires like the Ramsey's could never kill their daughter.

The inconsistencies in the Ramsey's version of events are precisely what police investigators will have talked about behind closed doors.

These represent the Ramsey mistakes, errors in their staging that they just forgot about or didn't care.

The best example is the Bloomingdale's size-12 underwear JonBenet is found wearing in the wine-cellar.

To date no explanation has been offered that satisfies everyone.

It's likely the case that JonBenet was staged, at different points in time, by all three remaining residents, who then lost track of who did what, when and why?

The bottom line is one of the Ramsey's killed JonBenet, then they all had a hand in staging her murder, complete with a postmortem version of events, all with the knowledge that their version of events would never stand up in a court of law, but they knew they had done enough to mess the crime-scene up to such an extent, that nobody could point a finger at any one Ramsey.

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[proust20]

Why is the room where JB was found termed as the "wine cellar" by the Rs? This room is not fitted out as a wine cellar nor is there any wine.
The basement seems so chaotic IMO. It's a mess that is in opposition to PR's perfectionism, or at least an on the surface perfectionism. In a way, the state of the basement suggests for me the reality of their family life; that is, way down deep things are not what they seem. It isn't that the basement wasn't used by the Rs. The laundry was down there after all. It strikes me as an out of character sloppiness that PR was using the unsuitable laundry to wrap presents. And then, there are the rolls of wrapping paper left in the shower. Also, there are the presents with the torn gift wrapping. (Whose presents were they?) Weird.
BR has said that on the 26th his Mom was 'psycho'. In the film "Psycho", of course, the corpse of Mrs. Bates is discovered in the cellar. Norman Bates murdered his mother. However, this transaction is reversible. I am not saying PDI, only commenting on the overall bizzare quality.

 

[UKGuy]

Why is the room where JB was found termed as the "wine cellar" by the Rs? This room is not fitted out as a wine cellar nor is there any wine.
The basement seems so chaotic IMO. It's a mess that is in opposition to PR's perfectionism, or at least an on the surface perfectionism. In a way, the state of the basement suggests for me the reality of their family life; that is, way down deep things are not what they seem. It isn't that the basement wasn't used by the Rs. The laundry was down there after all. It strikes me as an out of character sloppiness that PR was using the unsuitable laundry to wrap presents. And then, there are the rolls of wrapping paper left in the shower. Also, there are the presents with the torn gift wrapping. (Whose presents were they?) Weird.
BR has said that on the 26th his Mom was 'psycho'. In the film "Psycho", of course, the corpse of Mrs. Bates is discovered in the cellar. Norman Bates murdered his mother. However, this transaction is reversible. I am not saying PDI, only commenting on the overall bizzare quality.

proust20,
Calling the room, a wine-cellar is really an affection of the Ramsey's, a desire to appear comfortably rich, but they were Noveau Riche or Dollar Snobs. It was somewhere to store wine, but could never match that of other wealthy Boulder residents who have air-conditioned, temperature controlled wine-cellars filled with $10,000 minimum bottles of quality French wine, purchased at exclusive, pre-vetted auctions.

The torn gifts should not be in the wine-cellar, someone has dumped them in there, so they constitute staging. The others were for Burke's birthday.

Here is Kolar's take on the topic:
James Kolar, Foreign Faction, Excerpt

I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke's upcoming January birthday.

I didn?t give much thought about the presence of Christmas presents in the room at the time, but would later think these played a role in some of the events that took place on Christmas day.

The case is never PDI, i.e. you do not go out of your way to stage a basement crime-scene then leave your personal touch-dna and fibers all over the victim, might as well leave the same evidence in her bedroom and claim it all arrived via prior contact.

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[Stevem3]

I want to know following

1) does the DNA found give the race of the DNA ?

2) has it been determined the DNA put into CODIS is not a composite DNA but the DNA of one person

3) did luminol show any blood on the floor anywhere ?

4) how good was John’s eyesight in the dark ? Could person of his age opened the cellar door and see the body even though it was pitch black ? A police officer was not able too see body under similar conditions

5). What evidence if any shows murder itself do e in boiler room ?

 

[proust20]

What would be the advantage during the staging of moving the presents with the torn wrapping to the wine cellar? I believe that Kolar stated that it isn't known what those presents actually were; or, perhaps I am misremembering that.

 

[UKGuy]

What would be the advantage during the staging of moving the presents with the torn wrapping to the wine cellar? I believe that Kolar stated that it isn't known what those presents actually were; or, perhaps I am misremembering that.

proust20,
With everyone focused on JonBenet and the nasty details, they all forgot the Ramsey's, including Burke had a game plan, i.e. the Ramsey's had their idea of how to stage JonBenet and beat the system.

So part of that plan was to hide JonBenet from view, allow the police to search and if there was a no find then the parents were flying off somewhere else interstate, i.e. they were leaving town.

Since the partially opened gifts were evidence of prior activity down in the wine-cellar they were moved to the wine-cellar, out of sight.

Otherwise trained police searchers might see the torn gift wrapping and think Hey, JonBenet might be down here?

The gifts were known as they were still in the wrapping, except of course for the size-12's!

So here is today's Jeopardy question: Who took the size-12 underwear to redress JonBenet?


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[UKGuy]

I want to know following

1) does the DNA found give the race of the DNA ?

2) has it been determined the DNA put into CODIS is not a composite DNA but the DNA of one person

3) did luminol show any blood on the floor anywhere ?

4) how good was John’s eyesight in the dark ? Could person of his age opened the cellar door and see the body even though it was pitch black ? A police officer was not able too see body under similar conditions

5). What evidence if any shows murder itself do e in boiler room ?

Stevem3,
1) You cannot determine race from dna only a likely geographic region.

2) Nope, but its not a full sample anyway. It was just a face saving, book keeping exercise.

3) Not certain, I cannot recall any bloodstains being itemized?

4) John's eyesight is very, very poor, so poor he is not allowed by federal law to fly his own plane, hence he employed a flight pilot.

Fleet White looked into the wine-cellar early that morning and saw nothing unusual, including smell, etc!

5) The coroner said JonBenet died via strangulation which appears to have taken place in the basement, more specifically possibly the wine-cellar.

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