Questions you'd like answers to... #2

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Really, first I have heard of it.

So what do you reckon, was the 911 call just an accident,

Yes, it was an accident. Fleet was making a call regarding his mom's medicine. He didn't know the number, so he called the number for information 411. Instead of dialing 411, he dialed 911 instead. When 911 answered, he was probably like "Oops! That's not what I want!" and quickly hung up. 911 is going to respond because they don't know what's going on at the other end.

how come Patsy or John never fronted up to answer the responding officer at the door, sending Susan Stine instead?

Let's see... Maybe one was in the bathroom and the other, who is tending to some guests, says "Can someone get that, please?"

Anything happening during the Ramsey Christmas Party might have been a precursor to her death on Christmas Night.

What do we make of this, is Tom Haney lying?

BPD 1998 -Interview with Patsy, excerpt

Seems more logical for something to have happened after the party.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, it was an accident. Fleet was making a call regarding his mom's medicine. He didn't know the number, so he called the number for information 411. Instead of dialing 411, he dialed 911 instead. When 911 answered, he was probably like "Oops! That's not what I want!" and quickly hung up. 911 is going to respond because they don't know what's going on at the other end.



Let's see... Maybe one was in the bathroom and the other, who is tending to some guests, says "Can someone get that, please?"



Seems more logical for something to have happened after the party.

icedtea4me,
OK so there is nothing to see, so we just move on.

 

[proust20]

There is still the open question as to when was the last time previous to the murder that was JB molested. Cyril Wecht suggests that it could have been 2 or 3 days before, which does place it as possibly being on the day of the first 911 call. Of course, that cannot be established; but, it is interesting that Wecht made that assertion without knowing about the 911 on the 23rd.

 

[David Rogers]

Yes, it was an accident. Fleet was making a call regarding his mom's medicine. He didn't know the number, so he called the number for information 411. Instead of dialing 411, he dialed 911 instead. When 911 answered, he was probably like "Oops! That's not what I want!" and quickly hung up. 911 is going to respond because they don't know what's going on at the other end.



Let's see... Maybe one was in the bathroom and the other, who is tending to some guests, says "Can someone get that, please?"



Seems more logical for something to have happened after the party.

I have seen lots of people claim it was an accidental call from Fleet White. Where did he ever say that? You don’t Accidentally dial 911.

 

[Stevem3]

Does anyone know if the police checked if Patsy watched movies during chemotherapy treatments, or when at home recovering ?

I have read during treatments patients often watch movies as treatment can take up to 3 hours so it is a way to pass the time. Also when recovering at home, movies are often watched because you are too weak to get out of bed or get off the sofa.

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Really, first I have heard of it.

So what do you reckon, was the 911 call just an accident,

Yes, it was an accident. Fleet was making a call regarding his mom's medicine. He didn't know the number, so he called the number for information 411. Instead of dialing 411, he dialed 911 instead. When 911 answered, he was probably like "Oops! That's not what I want!" and quickly hung up. 911 is going to respond because they don't know what's going on at the other end.

how come Patsy or John never fronted up to answer the responding officer at the door, sending Susan Stine instead?

Let's see... Maybe one was in the bathroom and the other, who is tending to some guests, says "Can someone get that, please?"

Anything happening during the Ramsey Christmas Party might have been a precursor to her death on Christmas Night.

What do we make of this, is Tom Haney lying?

BPD 1998 -Interview with Patsy, excerpt

Seems more logical for something to have happened after the party.

I have seen lots of people claim it was an accidental call from Fleet White. Where did he ever say that? You don’t Accidentally dial 911.

Oh, you can do a lot of things by accident. Do you think that a parent has never called one child by another child's name? Peoples' brains aren't perfect every single second of every single day.

 

[UKGuy]

Susan Stine

AcandyRose, Excerpt

Fleet White
(Boulder, Colorado)
(Ramsey Friend)
12-23-1996 Xmas Party, Fleet dialed 911 by accident, police arrived, Susan Stine spoke through door speaker that call was mistake.

Death of Innocence, Excerpt

During the party Fleet White used our phone to make a series of calls, trying to get some medicine to his mother in a hospital in Aspen, Colorado. Apparently he dialed wrong and got 911. The police called back, but after checking with Fleet and the rest of the people in the house, Susan Stine informed them that the call was a mistake. The 911 call still remains somewhat of a mystery.

Denver Rocky Mountain News, Excerpt

An emergency call came in to Boulder police dispatcher Therese Hilleary's switchboard two nights before Christmas.
It was 6:47 p.m.
The 911 caller hung up without a word, but Hilleary traced it to 755 15th Ave., a 15-room Tudor brick mansion where John and Patricia "Patsy'' Ramsey were throwing their annual Christmas party.
A return call reached the Ramseys' answering machine, so Hilleary dispatched an officer to the quiet neighborhood braced by two of the city's signature landmarks, Chautauqua Park and the University of Colorado campus.
The officer, identified in department records only as "B.O. 266,'' was on to other duties by 7:09 p.m. after being told someone had misdialed while trying to call long distance.

Above: Patsy and John Ramsey along with Susan and Glen Stine chill out at Charlevoix, Michigan, (1997)
Read about 2003-06-04: BPD Press Release: Unlawful e-mails sent under Chief Beckner's name this below and how it was sourced to the account holder that has been accessing the [email protected] e-mail account is Susan B. Stine, 5760 Long Grove Drive, Atlanta, Georgia. Susan Stine is known as a close friend of John and Patsy Ramsey This is the same person who spoke to the responding 911 officer.
s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

The Stines and Ramsey's cosy up after the death of JonBenet

Last week, Patsy Ramsey's close friend Susan Stine reportedly testified before the grand jury. The Ramseys visited Susan and Glen Stine on Christmas night 1996 - the night before JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parents' home. The Stines since have moved to the Atlanta area, where the Ramseys also now live.

Susan Stine, who was referred to in Lawrence Schiller's book about the case, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town,'' as "Patsy Ramsey's pit bull,'' has reportedly remained close to Patsy and staunch in her defense.

Stine's reported appearance came as the grand jury met for the first time in four months. Before that, the last time the panel met was to hear from JonBenet's older brother, Burke, who was in the family's home at the time of her death.

Legal analysts said recent appearances of witnesses apparently friendly to the Ramseys could signal the grand jury hasn't reached a decision.

They may be looking at suspects outside the family, and are relying on family and close friends to tell them about any relationships with JonBenet that could arouse suspicion, said Denver attorney Scott Robinson.

Its curious that Fleet White has never confirmed he dialled 911 by accident. No doubt if it was linked to JonBenet's death it would have been checked out when Fleet undertook his full interview with the BPD officers.


.

 

[David Rogers]

Susan Stine

AcandyRose, Excerpt


Death of Innocence, Excerpt


Denver Rocky Mountain News, Excerpt

Above: Patsy and John Ramsey along with Susan and Glen Stine chill out at Charlevoix, Michigan, (1997)
Read about 2003-06-04: BPD Press Release: Unlawful e-mails sent under Chief Beckner's name this below and how it was sourced to the account holder that has been accessing the [email protected] e-mail account is Susan B. Stine, 5760 Long Grove Drive, Atlanta, Georgia. Susan Stine is known as a close friend of John and Patsy Ramsey This is the same person who spoke to the responding 911 officer.
s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

The Stines and Ramsey's cosy up after the death of JonBenet


Its curious that Fleet White has never confirmed he dialled 911 by accident. No doubt if it was linked to JonBenet's death it would have been checked out when Fleet undertook his full interview with the BPD officers.


.

This Right here. Fleet White has never admitted he dialed the phone.

 

[icedtea4me]

This Right here. Fleet White has never admitted he dialed the phone.

It doesn't occur to you that Fleet White isn't going to say anything until there's a trial, does it?

 

[David Rogers]

It doesn't occur to you that Fleet White isn't going to say anything until there's a trial, does it?

Yep. He’s still hoping there will a trial which mean John is involved or he’s keeping him mouth shut because he won’t implicate Burke.

 

[David Rogers]

Yes, it was an accident. Fleet was making a call regarding his mom's medicine. He didn't know the number, so he called the number for information 411. Instead of dialing 411, he dialed 911 instead. When 911 answered, he was probably like "Oops! That's not what I want!" and quickly hung up. 911 is going to respond because they don't know what's going on at the other end.



Let's see... Maybe one was in the bathroom and the other, who is tending to some guests, says "Can someone get that, please?"



Seems more logical for something to have happened after the party.


Oh, you can do a lot of things by accident. Do you think that a parent has never called one child by another child's name? Peoples' brains aren't perfect every single second of every single day.

If it was a simple accident, then why doesn’t Fleet just say I dialed 911 by accident. He never has.

 

[fr brown]

More likely there was a 9-1-1 sequence embedded inside the number Fleet (or whoever) dialed. The same thing happened to me a few times in the late 80s or early 90s when I was connecting to work through a modem. I don't remember the details. Once a cop came to the house but didn't come in.

Someone on reddit said the same thing happened to him when he would dial a local radio station.

Steve Thomas doesn't attribute anything sinister to the event, though he doesn't name White. I'm not sure why Fleet White would be expected to make a public declaration.

 

[David Rogers]

More likely there was a 9-1-1 sequence embedded inside the number Fleet (or whoever) dialed. The same thing happened to me a few times in the late 80s or early 90s when I was connecting to work through a modem. I don't remember the details. Once a cop came to the house but didn't come in.

Someone on reddit said the same thing happened to him when he would dial a local radio station.

Steve Thomas doesn't attribute anything sinister to the event, though he doesn't name White. I'm not sure why Fleet White would be expected to make a public declaration.

Maybe not by itself but that is also the night Jonbenet said she didn’t feel pretty anymore and grandpa flew on standby to Atlanta the next morning. Hours after the next time they see the Whites, Jonbenet is dead. Something happened on the 23rd, and escalated at the Whites. Hours later she was dead.

 

[fr brown]

Maybe not by itself but that is also the night Jonbenet said she didn’t feel pretty anymore and grandpa flew on standby to Atlanta the next morning. Hours after the next time they see the Whites, Jonbenet is dead. Something happened on the 23rd, and escalated at the Whites. Hours later she was dead.

I'll take your word for "I don't feel pretty" and grandpa's flight. Is the idea that grandpa did something to JonBenet and had to get out of town? Of course, people do fly on the holidays and sometimes they find it hard to get a seat if they haven't booked weeks in advance. In the olden days.

Something might have happened on the drive home from the Whites'. Ramsey said he and Patsy "debated" whether to make the third gift stop on the way home. Sounds like there were two sides and John won. For some reason the destination of the third stop appears twice as "Franks" in John's '97 interview. "Fernie" appears later in another context. Maybe the first is a transcriber error or maybe John was misspeaking.

 

[icedtea4me]

I'll take your word for "I don't feel pretty" <snip>

The "I don't feel pretty" story is at the beginning of Thomas's book.

 

[fr brown]

The "I don't feel pretty" story is at the beginning of Thomas's book.

I'm aware of the "pretty"anecdote, but didn't remember when it happened. Of course now I've read it again and it did happen on the 23rd.

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe not by itself but that is also the night Jonbenet said she didn’t feel pretty anymore and grandpa flew on standby to Atlanta the next morning. Hours after the next time they see the Whites, Jonbenet is dead. Something happened on the 23rd, and escalated at the Whites. Hours later she was dead.

David Rogers,
Grandpa flying to Atlanta might or might not be relevant detail. Although we should bear in mind that the Ramsey's lived in a house which had guest bedrooms, so the flight was not due to an absence of a bed.

There are really only four events to consider :

1. Ramsey Christmas Party on the 23rd.

2. Burke and JonBenet share a bedroom on Christmas Eve.

3. Ramsey's attend the White's Christmas Party.

4. Return journey from the White's leads to JonBenet's death.

All four events have the common factor that John, Patsy and Burke are present.

i.e. Grandpa is not a recurring factor so might be filtered out of consideration as a suspect?

If you attempt a victim profile of JonBenet, I forget if I posted one here, then this should reveal the likely person who assaulted JonBenet?

What you unveil can be corroborated by some of the Ramsey's answers given during various interviews.

John is quite helpful here as postmortem some of his remarks are plainly contradictory, this helps in ruling suspects out, alas not John.

I'm currently re-reading Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? and We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenet Ramsey Twenty Years Later to see if there are any forensic nuggets that I can cross-reference?

The repeating theme in events 1-4 might be sexual contact, which was intended to be staged as
an accident, or there was an accident which was then staged as a sexual assault?

There is a pseudo 5th event which is what happened at the White's, note not much has been released about this, e.g. who socialized with whom, who played with who? This might be important in confirming any thoughts regarding event 1?

A speculative theory can be put together outlining a common thread in all the events leading up to Christmas night, but there is no smoking gun, so it remains conjecture.

 

[proust20]

Without doubt, what I am to say has been covered previously here. In any case, I'll make make my comment with the hope that someone shall offer clarification.
A common thread of BDI is that BR and JB had a confrontation over the pineapple, which had fatal consequences. As far as I can tell, no one seriously considers BR as the author of the RN. So, at sometime before 5:30 AM, if BR were guilty, the Rs should have asked him for an explanation as to what had occurred with JB. But, given those circumstances, how do we know that BR should have told them the truth? If you'd just committed homicide on Christmas, should lying to your parents seem a really big deal?
With this case, it seems all roads lead back to the pineapple. The Rs need to cling at all costs to their tale that everybody was in bed by 10:30. And hence, PR vehemently denied giving JB pineapple. But, of course, the autopsy proved that JB did ingest it that evening. Also, the bowl with the pineapple was in full view when LE arrived. That an intruder should have fed JB is highly improbable, but not all together impossible.
What I am attempting to get at in a rather round about way is when did PR and JR learn that JB ate the pineapple? Perhaps these autopsy results surprised them? If BR indeed had told them that everything went haywire after JB snatched some of it from him, they'd have understood readily its pivotal significance. Wouldn't they have then wiped down the bowl of any fingerprints as part of the staging? Why, with the knowledge via BR, overlook this obvious aspect? The RN doesn't have fingerprints, nor do the flashlight batteries. It'd not be overly suspicious in itself that the bowl didn't have them also; and the myth that an intruder fed JB should if anything thereby be more substantial. To restate my line of inquiry, couldn't a guilty BR have lied to his folks about the chain of events which they only later fully grasped?

 

[David Rogers]

David Rogers,
Grandpa flying to Atlanta might or might not be relevant detail. Although we should bear in mind that the Ramsey's lived in a house which had guest bedrooms, so the flight was not due to an absence of a bed.

There are really only four events to consider :

1. Ramsey Christmas Party on the 23rd.

2. Burke and JonBenet share a bedroom on Christmas Eve.

3. Ramsey's attend the White's Christmas Party.

4. Return journey from the White's leads to JonBenet's death.

All four events have the common factor that John, Patsy and Burke are present.

i.e. Grandpa is not a recurring factor so might be filtered out of consideration as a suspect?

If you attempt a victim profile of JonBenet, I forget if I posted one here, then this should reveal the likely person who assaulted JonBenet?

What you unveil can be corroborated by some of the Ramsey's answers given during various interviews.

John is quite helpful here as postmortem some of his remarks are plainly contradictory, this helps in ruling suspects out, alas not John.

I'm currently re-reading Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? and We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenet Ramsey Twenty Years Later to see if there are any forensic nuggets that I can cross-reference?

The repeating theme in events 1-4 might be sexual contact, which was intended to be staged as
an accident, or there was an accident which was then staged as a sexual assault?

There is a pseudo 5th event which is what happened at the White's, note not much has been released about this, e.g. who socialized with whom, who played with who? This might be important in confirming any thoughts regarding event 1?

A speculative theory can be put together outlining a common thread in all the events leading up to Christmas night, but there is no smoking gun, so it remains conjecture.

I don’t think Grandpa is a suspect. I do think there might be a bearing on the previous abuse. Maybe grandpa went to Atlanta to confront the abuser. Maybe it was an innocent trip. I think the timing of the trip is odd.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Maybe not by itself but that is also the night Jonbenet said she didn’t feel pretty anymore and grandpa flew on standby to Atlanta the next morning. Hours after the next time they see the Whites, Jonbenet is dead. Something happened on the 23rd, and escalated at the Whites. Hours later she was dead.

Patsy and JonBenet had a fight on the twenty third over what JonBenet wanted to wear and what Pasty wanted her to wear. JonBenet gave in and wore the blue dress to the gingerbread house party.
JonBenet won the fight on Christmas day and wore the white gap top to the Whites, and not the red turtleneck Pasty wanted her to wear so they could look alike.

I haven't given up on Don Paugh as a possible abuser.