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In the grand jury presentation it was not a part of the evidence. Because it's highly speculative and impossible to ever know one way or the other because of an unsecured crime scene. The physical part of the murder was highlighted. It was simply immaterial because the abduction/murder was the disposition of the indictment. It could have been dealt with in time.

"But I wish they had explained their theory about sexual abuse vs staging" In the FBI vault you can read about this theory till the cows come home. Just search for it.
 
I have a question that has bothered me since I started watching the tv specials and also after some things I have read about the case. According to several things I have read, there was suspicion of repeated sexual abuse. Then when I watched the CBS special about the case, there was discussion that indicated they did not believe there was a pattern of sexual abuse. So which is it? I also believe it was on the CBS special that they discussed small pieces of wood found in the vagina that they believed was from the paint brush! Anyone have any thoughts regarding prior sexual abuse? And if so, who was abusing her?

Yeah, this drives me nuts too. Depending on which series you watch, they say something different; or they make one piece of evidence appear more/less significant than it actually is. One thing to remember is, even these series (i.e. the creators of) have agendas and opinions, and it shows through them, biases and all. Quite honestly, I still don't know what to definitively believe on the issue, but I lean toward there being prior abuse of course, because I'm RDI.

Are you from the WM3 board that's gone downhill recently? I recognize that screen name. Apologies if not.
 
The CBS special was very puzzling wrt the injuries. We know Kolar believed there was prior abuse (from Burke), but only Werner Spitz (forensic pathologist) and Henry Lee (criminalist) discussed the subject on camera. I'm not sure about Lee's beliefs prior to the doc but according to this link, Spitz was quoted in PMPT (1999) making statements consistent with his 2016 comments on TV.
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682469/Evidence of Prior Sexual Abuse
The link also states that according to PMPT the FBI thought the sexual assault was staging not done to cover up prior sexual abuse. Jim and Laura, coming from the FBI, may share that view though they did not discuss it on screen. If you check out the CBS discussion threads, there was speculation that there was more about it in the deleted footage. I wouldn't be surprised if they did cut some things - it's sensitive material and there's nothing decisive. Probably not good for the lawsuit they knew was coming. But I wish they had explained their theory about sexual abuse vs staging in more detail since it's a key aspect of the case. Steve Thomas did not think she had been sexually abused, but found the injuries sufficiently troubling that he mentioned the possibility of prior sexual abuse in his book and explained it away as evidence of physical, not sexual, abuse of JB by Patsy.

As you can see at the link (and elsewhere), there were plenty of people besides the panel of 6 doctors who thought there was evidence of prior abuse. Forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht (who wrote a book about the case) is probably the most prominent. It may be worth noting his theory is JDI. Linda Arndt (background in sexual assault/child abuse cases, present at the autopsy and a witness to the injuries) stated there was evidence of prior abuse, said she'd never seen anything like it, and implied on Good Morning America she thought JDI as well. She discussed the "incest dynamic" she observed within the family in her deposition.

My opinion? I lean toward previous abuse based on what I've read and my understanding of her injuries, but what do I know? Clearly there's room for debate. The thing about the "assault was staging only" theory is that it feels wrong to me. I have trouble comprehending how any parent (if a parent did it) could strangle their child even to cover up their or someone else's misdeed. To imagine that in addition to that, a parent violated their own child with a paintbrush before or after strangling her? It's unthinkable, beyond the pale. However, ultimately my feelings are irrelevant. You can never know simply by looking at someone what they are capable of. Most of the things that we know happened in the Ramsey case are beyond reason, what's one more inexplicable detail on top of the rest?

If someone did abuse her, it would have to be someone with regular access to her. John Ramsey would be the obvious suspect, though my gut feeling is that he wasn't responsible. But again, that's just my feeling. My opinion based on my observances of John Ramsey was that his public persona was a complete (and fairly obvious) facade, but I have no idea what exactly he was hiding. I would lean toward Burke because one of the former housekeepers accused him of "playing doctor" with JB which, if true, could explain prior injuries. I'm not sold on it though. To a lesser extent I've also considered Patsy's father, Don (who had an apartment in Boulder though he lived with Nedra in Atlanta; he regularly watched the children) or John's oldest son JAR (who had a room at the home, lived in a dorm nearby, and was the contributor of the semen found on the blanket found with - it has been surmised but not confirmed - Dr. Seuss's "The Seven Lady Godivas" in the suitcase found in the basement). But whatever really happened, I'm afraid we'll never know. I could go on but this post is already too long!

If I'm strictly going by my gut feeling, I think JAR is the one responsible -- that is what "feels right" to me, as far as who did it -- the fact they were half-siblings; the fact JAR was an adult, capable of committing and staging this crime himself, the fact that JBR would obviously trust him -- it just seems like everything perfectly fits for him to have done this, much more so than a suspect like BR. But as the BPD has stated, he and his sister were ruled out, due to the fact that they were both out of state at the time.
 
If I'm strictly going by my gut feeling, I think JAR is the one responsible -- that is what "feels right" to me, as far as who did it -- the fact they were half-siblings; the fact JAR was an adult, capable of committing and staging this crime himself, the fact that JBR would obviously trust him -- it just seems like everything perfectly fits for him to have done this, much more so than a suspect like BR. But as the BPD has stated, he and his sister were ruled out, due to the fact that they were both out of state at the time.
He may or may not have been capable. We'll never know. But he wasn't there. Only four people were in the house that night and JBR died. That left three.
One of those three did have regular access to JB and was accused by the former housekeeper of getting caught "playing doctor" with her. This isn't something that is far-fetched or highly unusual. From the info at the link DrollForeignFaction provided, you can see that her injuries were probably not so large to have been made by an adult, even if by digital penetration, imo.

Dr. Beuf (JB's pediatrician) cannot be trusted, imo. There were red flags all around this little girl and he shirked his duty to her. I've posted this before, but it's worth saying again:
I don't for one minute believe that he actually performed any vag exams on JB. He contradicts himself when asked about it. I also do not believe he did his due diligence based on her symptoms and that he was only trying to cover his own backside when he said he had performed those exams. He was a friend of the family and he put that first.
To put this into perspective, it's important to note that it's our society that has developed a terrible custom of calling the external female genitalia the vagina - which it is not. It is the vulva. However, a physician absolutely knows the difference.

SAWYER: But what about those reports that JonBenet's pediatrician, Dr Beuf, saw JonBenet 30 times in three years?
BEUF: Before your call, I sat down with her chart and counted. It was 27 times.
SAWYER: This is the first time Dr Beuf has gone over his records publicly.
And is that unusual to see a child that many times?
BEUF: Not with the kinds of problems which this child had. The majority of them were for sinus infections and for colds.
SAWYER: And by majority you mean?
BEUF: Probably 20 of the lot. I counted three in which she'd complained of some pain in urination. And the rest of them were cold, strep throats, sinus infections.
SAWYER: So many he said, there was some concern about asthma.
How many times did you give her a vaginal examination?
BEUF: Well, it was five or six times in that three year period.
SAWYER: We asked him to specifically review all notes that might pertain. He agreed, citing the frenzy of uninformed speculation. Be warned, these are a doctor's clinical notes about a young patient.
September 1993 a call about vaginal redness, possibly associated with recent diarrhea.
April 1994 a visit about a problem perhaps related to the use of bubble bath, which can be an irritant.
October 1994 a routine physical. No problems noted, though some indication of occasional bedwetting. Dr Beuf says 20 percent to 25 percent of children that age wet the bed.
March 1995 abdominal pain and fever. Tests and exam showed no problem.
August 1996 another routine physical with a vaginal exam. The doctor said everything checked out as normal. We asked what he made of this number of complaints?
Would that be unusual?
BEUF: For a child that age, certainly not. They don't wipe themselves very well after they urinate. And it's something which usually is curable by having them take plain water baths or learning to wipe better. But if you have 4yo kids, you know how hard that is. The amount of vaginitis which I saw on the child was totally consistent with little girls her age.
SAWYER: If there had been an abrasion involving the hymen, you would have seen it?
BEUF: Probably. I can't say absolutely for sure because you don't do a speculum exam on a child that young at least unless it's under anesthesia.
SAWYER: Did you see in any of these examinations any sign of possible sexual abuse?
BEUF: No, and I certainly would have reported it to the social service people if I had. That's something that all of us in pediatrics are very acutely aware of.
(BBM)


So, here's why it doesn't make sense:
First he says he says he performed a vag exam 5 or 6 times in a 3 year period. This would be an incredible number of times for anyone who is not expecting a baby or with some other OB/GYN issue, let alone a child.
Then, Sawyer asks him, "If there had been an abrasion involving the hymen, you would have seen it?" and he replies, "Probably."
But then he states, "I can't say absolutely for sure because you don't do a speculum exam on a child that young at least unless it's under anesthesia."
Well, which is it, doctor? You can't have it both ways.
My guess is that he never actually performed a vag exam. I think that is an outright lie. Although, it can be done on a child without anesthesia using an otoscope (ear scope), and he should definitely know that.
At best, he might have done a visual exam of her vulva. But, unless he used some kind of an instrument, he never performed a vag exam.
The bottom line for me is this - this record is filled with red flags and he did not do his due diligence. He either turned a blind eye to the problems right before his face or he was negligent. Of course, there is another explanation - some kind of influence kept the dirty truth out of those medical records and his failure to report will forever keep that secret.
http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/bynum.html

- End of Rant (for now) -
 
He may or may not have been capable. We'll never know. But he wasn't there. Only four people were in the house that night and JBR died. That left three.
One of those three did have regular access to JB and was accused by the former housekeeper of getting caught "playing doctor" with her. This isn't something that is far-fetched or highly unusual. From the info at the link DrollForeignFaction provided, you can see that her injuries were probably not so large to have been made by an adult, even if by digital penetration, imo.

Dr. Beuf (JB's pediatrician) cannot be trusted, imo. There were red flags all around this little girl and he shirked his duty to her. I've posted this before, but it's worth saying again:
I don't for one minute believe that he actually performed any vag exams on JB. He contradicts himself when asked about it. I also do not believe he did his due diligence based on her symptoms and that he was only trying to cover his own backside when he said he had performed those exams. He was a friend of the family and he put that first.
To put this into perspective, it's important to note that it's our society that has developed a terrible custom of calling the external female genitalia the vagina - which it is not. It is the vulva. However, a physician absolutely knows the difference.

SAWYER: But what about those reports that JonBenet's pediatrician, Dr Beuf, saw JonBenet 30 times in three years?
BEUF: Before your call, I sat down with her chart and counted. It was 27 times.
SAWYER: This is the first time Dr Beuf has gone over his records publicly.
And is that unusual to see a child that many times?
BEUF: Not with the kinds of problems which this child had. The majority of them were for sinus infections and for colds.
SAWYER: And by majority you mean?
BEUF: Probably 20 of the lot. I counted three in which she'd complained of some pain in urination. And the rest of them were cold, strep throats, sinus infections.
SAWYER: So many he said, there was some concern about asthma.
How many times did you give her a vaginal examination?
BEUF: Well, it was five or six times in that three year period.
SAWYER: We asked him to specifically review all notes that might pertain. He agreed, citing the frenzy of uninformed speculation. Be warned, these are a doctor's clinical notes about a young patient.
September 1993 a call about vaginal redness, possibly associated with recent diarrhea.
April 1994 a visit about a problem perhaps related to the use of bubble bath, which can be an irritant.
October 1994 a routine physical. No problems noted, though some indication of occasional bedwetting. Dr Beuf says 20 percent to 25 percent of children that age wet the bed.
March 1995 abdominal pain and fever. Tests and exam showed no problem.
August 1996 another routine physical with a vaginal exam. The doctor said everything checked out as normal. We asked what he made of this number of complaints?
Would that be unusual?
BEUF: For a child that age, certainly not. They don't wipe themselves very well after they urinate. And it's something which usually is curable by having them take plain water baths or learning to wipe better. But if you have 4yo kids, you know how hard that is. The amount of vaginitis which I saw on the child was totally consistent with little girls her age.
SAWYER: If there had been an abrasion involving the hymen, you would have seen it?
BEUF: Probably. I can't say absolutely for sure because you don't do a speculum exam on a child that young at least unless it's under anesthesia.
SAWYER: Did you see in any of these examinations any sign of possible sexual abuse?
BEUF: No, and I certainly would have reported it to the social service people if I had. That's something that all of us in pediatrics are very acutely aware of.
(BBM)


So, here's why it doesn't make sense:
First he says he says he performed a vag exam 5 or 6 times in a 3 year period. This would be an incredible number of times for anyone who is not expecting a baby or with some other OB/GYN issue, let alone a child.
Then, Sawyer asks him, "If there had been an abrasion involving the hymen, you would have seen it?" and he replies, "Probably."
But then he states, "I can't say absolutely for sure because you don't do a speculum exam on a child that young at least unless it's under anesthesia."
Well, which is it, doctor? You can't have it both ways.
My guess is that he never actually performed a vag exam. I think that is an outright lie. Although, it can be done on a child without anesthesia using an otoscope (ear scope), and he should definitely know that.
At best, he might have done a visual exam of her vulva. But, unless he used some kind of an instrument, he never performed a vag exam.
The bottom line for me is this - this record is filled with red flags and he did not do his due diligence. He either turned a blind eye to the problems right before his face or he was negligent. Of course, there is another explanation - some kind of influence kept the dirty truth out of those medical records and his failure to report will forever keep that secret.
http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/bynum.html

- End of Rant (for now) -

Could Dr B have been the one abusing JonBenet?
 
The normal age for females to have vulvar exams is 13-15, depending on if there are symptoms like pain, abnormal bleeding, etc. The normal age for vaginal exams is 21, with the same caveat as before.

A 6 yr old is not going to be subject to an internal vaginal exam unless there is a damn good reason why she should like pain, early onset menstruation, report of a rape, etc.

Several vaginal exams between the ages of 3-6? That's ridiculous and if you need all those exams someone in social services had better get involved.

I knew a child at age 3 who had a yeast infection. Her mom let her sit around in her wet bathing suit all summer because the kid didn't want to change out of it and she ended up with a heinous rash that required months of treatment. Needless to say, that mom no longer has primary custody of the children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Could Dr B have been the one abusing JonBenet?
Oh, I truly don't think so.

Was he negligent? Yes. To a degree that he could have been prosecuted? Maybe not.

But - had Beuf treated JBR appropriately, would/could it have made a significant difference in this case?

IF he had performed a proper examination on this child, including taking a proper history at each and every visit, I believe there is at least a very good possibility that the abuse would have been discovered. Once discovered, steps would have been taken to determine who was involved. Then that person would have been forced into therapy.

Beuf had a responsibility to JB. He failed her miserably.
 
Patsy stated, in her interview with Tom Haney) that JB had never had a vaginal examination.

I know that I would have screamed the place down if a doctor, or anyone else, had tried to do something like to me when I was that age.
 
Userid - JAR was in Georgia at all relevant times. There are witnesses and video surveillance cameras verifying his whereabouts. I know that one of the neighbors claimed he saw JAR walking on the sidewalk in front of the R home on Christmas day but it had to be a case of mistaken identity.
 
I have a question that has bothered me since I started watching the tv specials and also after some things I have read about the case. According to several things I have read, there was suspicion of repeated sexual abuse. Then when I watched the CBS special about the case, there was discussion that indicated they did not believe there was a pattern of sexual abuse. So which is it? I also believe it was on the CBS special that they discussed small pieces of wood found in the vagina that they believed was from the paint brush! Anyone have any thoughts regarding prior sexual abuse? And if so, who was abusing her?
Anyone interested in understanding the supposed sexual abuse of JonBenet can read all the books available on this case and still not have concrete answers to their questions because so much depends on opinion. But in order to form an opinion, a person has to understand the issues that are in dispute. Thomas and Kolar both touch on the subject in their books, but the book by TCDG (Listen Carefully) goes into much more detail about the autopsy report itself.

Here is what Kolar wrote about it:

The site of the damaged tissue was excised and prepared for a pathology slide. Later examination would reveal the presence of “cellulose material” in the membrane of the hymeneal opening consistent with the wood of the paintbrush used as a handle in the cord of the garrote.


He (Dr. Meyer) noted that he didn’t consider this injury the result of a particularly vicious assault with a foreign object. A very small splinter of material was discovered during microscopic examination, and more trauma to the site would have been expected if the perpetrator had been intent on physically torturing the child.
Dr. Meyer also observed signs of chronic inflammation around the vaginal orifice and believed that these injuries had been inflicted in the days or weeks before the acute injury that was responsible for causing the bleeding at the time of her death. This irritation appeared consistent with prior sexual contact.

Here is a passage from Listen Carefully which notes individual parts from the AR with explanations of what they mean:

Microscopic slides of tissue were examined in a later stage of the autopsy and confirmed indications from the external examination that JonBenét had suffered prior, and possibly multiple incidents of sexual abuse, as well as a very recent sexual assault preceding her death. The following points were noted regarding analysis of the vaginal mucosa:


1. All of the sections contain vascular congestion (engorgement of blood visible at the microscopic level) and focal interstitial chronic inflammation (localized inflammation of the connective tissue which, due to its age, had begun the process of healing).

2. The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion (erosion of the outer-most layer of cells on the vaginal wall resulting in exposure of the underlying cell structure) with underlying capillary congestion (increased blood flow to the capillaries due to exposure or injury, which is an indication of the body’s healing response).
3. A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface (presence of microscopic traces of blood), as is birefringent foreign material (an unknown material found that has the optical property of light refraction).
4. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen. (The absence of the migration and accumulation of white blood cells in the tissue sample indicated the injury was so recent, the body did not have time to respond to the damage).

Later, Meyer returned to the morgue with Dr. Andy Sirontak, Chief of Denver Children’s Hospital Child Protection Team, so that a second opinion could be rendered on the injuries observed to JonBenét’s vaginal area. Dr. Sirontak observed the same injuries Meyer had noted during the autopsy protocol and concurred that a foreign object had been inserted into the opening of JonBenét’s vaginal orifice and was responsible for the acute injury witnessed at the 7:00 o’clock position.

In mid-September [1997], a panel of pediatric experts from around the country reached one of the major conclusions of the investigation—that JonBenét had suffered vaginal trauma prior to the day she was killed.

“There were no dissenting opinions among them on the issue, and they firmly rejected any possibility that the trauma to the hymen and chronic vaginal inflammation were caused by urination issues or masturbation. We gathered affidavits stating in clear language that there were injuries ‘consistent with prior trauma and sexual abuse’ . . . ‘There was chronic abuse’ . . . ‘Past violation of the vagina’ . . . ‘Evidence of both acute injury and chronic sexual abuse.’ In other words, the doctors were saying it had happened before. One expert summed it up well when he said the injuries were not consistent with sexual assault but with a child who was being physically abused.

Then there is this from Steve Thomas (quoted in Listen Carefully):

Such findings would lead an investigator to conclude that the person who inflicted that abuse was someone with frequent or unquestioned access to the child, and that limited the number of suspects. Every statistic in the book pointed to someone inside the family.



The only conclusion I can imagine coming to from all this is that JonBenet had been subjected to some type of abuse prior to, leading up to, and on the night she was killed. It is obvious from this why the Ramseys and the RST would try to diminish or deny the obvious. Continuing abuse implicates either someone from the family or someone close to the family with continued access to JonBenet.

So the question remaining is whether this abuse was sexual abuse or simply some type of physical abuse. This issue is best demonstrated in the thinking of, and statements from, Dr. Richard Krugman who was consulted first by the DA’s office, and then by the BPD. Krugman is sometimes cited as having said there was “no evidence of sexual abuse.” But actually the doctor was trying to differentiate between what could be physical abuse without sexual intent. IOW he was describing what might be physical abuse intended as punishment without sexual gratification on the part of the person doing it. But he also added that “sexual intent” could not be determined without confirmed evidence of STD (sexually transmitted disease), the presence of semen, the child’s own testimony, or her medical history.

According to the Bonita Papers, Krugman “was the most adamant supporter of the finding of chronic sexual abuse.” But Krugman just happened to be considered an expert on child abuse that resulted from toileting accidents. He had written several articles on the subject before being called in. When he looked at the evidence and discovered that JonBenet was still wetting her bed, he (not surprisingly) concluded that what he called “toilet rage” was the cause of JonBenet’s genital injuries. If he had thought the injuries were sexually motivated, it would have contradicted his theory that it happened because of her bedwetting. Steve Thomas became convinced this was the root cause of what happened and developed his theory around Patsy being responsible. To this day, many case followers still believe this to be the reason JonBenet died -- perhaps because of their early development of ideas and reluctance to change those ideas, and perhaps because of the feeling of repulsion that a parent could be guilty of harming their child simply because they had wet the bed.

The reasons Krugman seemed to be reluctant to definitively say that she had been sexually abused are based on his not knowing the intents or motivations of the person inflicting the injuries. IOW, did the person do it for his/her sexual gratification, or were the injuries being done to cause pain or discomfort as some type of punishment and just happened to be inflicted on her genitals? Krugman’s thoughts about this are demonstrated in an interview on Burden of Proof a year after JonBenet’s death:

COSSACK
: Doctor, you are a leading child abuse expert. The police brought to you the autopsy report of JonBenet Ramsey for your opinion. You concluded that this was not perhaps a case of sex abuse, but perhaps a case of child abuse, why?
KRUGMAN: Well first Roger child abuse to me includes physical abuse, sexual abuse, and a variety of other forms of abuse and neglect. What I said at the time was that I couldn't say with certainty that this was a sexual abuse case. It clearly was a physical abuse case. And it was a physical abuse case because of the massive brain injury, the skull fracture, and because of the strangulation.
COSSACK: Why were you not able to say with certainty about a sexual abuse case, Doctor?
KRUGMAN: Well for one to know with certainty that sexual abuse occurred that night I think one would need some forensic evidence that I'm not sure is available. I haven't seen any certainly to make me feel that way. There are a lot of people around the country who have from afar or even from looking at the autopsy said they are certain she was sexually abused. The problem is that children who are sexually abused may or may not have any physical findings. The reason I wouldn't say with certainty that she was or wasn't is because at least 40% of children have absolutely no physical findings and they are being sexually abused; whereas children who have some physical findings around the genital area, may have been physically abused or may have been sexually abused. And I saw nothing to let me know with certainty that sexual abuse was here in this particular case that particular night.
COSSACK: Doctor you made a statement which almost made it sound though that you believe that the sexual abuse was a coverup to perhaps hide the amount of physical abuse. Do you have a feel on that area?
KRUGMAN: In my view that's certainly a possibility.
COSSACK: Well why would you suggest that it is a coverup? I mean, what is there to suggest sexual abuse being a coverup to perhaps hide physical abuse?
KRUGMAN: Well let's again be careful of our terms. There was a lesion an abrasion on the hymen. That may have been part of sexual abuse. That may have been part of physical abuse. That may have been part of a coverup. I just don't see enough things in the autopsy to say with certainty what happened. And I think the main problem we have with this case and in this country is that we are using the wrong system that is the criminal justice system to try to deal retrospectively with a problem like child abuse, which is an enormous public health problem and has killed over 2,000 other children anonymously since JonBenet died.
COSSACK: Doctor what I am and I agree with you, of course, but what I am particularly interested in is your use of the word coverup here as some sort of way of perhaps hiding something. And I'm trying to get you to explain that to me.
KRUGMAN: Well I'm not sure I can explain it to you Roger other than to say that when you see an injury someplace on a child there can be a lot of different reasons why that injury is there. And if you are involved in an investigation or you are trying to work out diagnostic possibilities you need to think of them all and then you need to have other information that helps you sort out those possibilities.


What Krugman is saying above gets misinterpreted by many when only parts of his statements are quoted. What he seems to be saying is that the genital injuries are believed to be of a “sexual” nature by most people because of their location. He OTOH is allowing for the possibility that the injuries were simply physical abuse because of not being able to know the intent of the perpetrator. Krugman never disputes or diminishes the injuries to JonBenet’s genitals. He only allows for doubt about the reason for their being inflicted. IOW, because the assailant might not have been seeking sexual gratification, the injuries may have been inflicted only as physical punishment.

I believe that this distinction between physical and sexual abuse is what the CBS documentary was trying to say; but because it had been whittled down to 2 hours, they didn’t really fully explain why they were saying there was no sexual abuse. This was a big mistake on their part (IMO), but I think they were also trying to limit what was said about this to lessen their possible liabilities in any threatened legal actions.

As for myself, I’ll go on record as stating I believe the injuries were not simply inflicted as physical abuse. IMO the person doing this had begun several months prior to her death and had begun escalating the things that were done to the point that the acute injury occurred Christmas night causing her to bleed. But this is the controversy over whether or not she was “sexually” abused. It’s up to each of us to make our own decision about what we think.
 
otg,
Excellent post.

Dr. Richard Krugman simply appears to be promoting his specialty, and not much else.

His diagnosis works both ways, since we cannot be certain that the intent was singularly physical.

Since I am aware of prior sexual contact by JonBenet with another family member, that then corroborates the possibility of sexual abuse.

Then there is Coroner Meyer's verbatim opinion that there was Sexual Contact

Holly Smith, head of Boulder County Sexual Abuse team thought there could be sexual abuse. She was removed from the case and had her chapter on the Ramsey Case redacted from her autobiography, what does that tell you?

Then there is the conclusion which I think Kolar suggests that there was both sexual and physical abuse, e.g. use of paintbrush, all premeditated and undertaken by one individual?

I reckon there was both chronic and acute abuse, the parents woke up too late, realized what had transpired and attempted to stage it all away?

.
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Has there been any in-depth discussion of the BEGINNING of the 911 audio? I've seen people mention that something is mumbled before "POLICE!" is screamed by Patsy. I've seen only a couple people mention it, and their interpretation of that utterance is way different from what I hear.

What I hear at the beginning of the call is so significant, I have to wonder if I'm either wrong, or how on earth it's been overlooked.
 
Has there been any in-depth discussion of the BEGINNING of the 911 audio? I've seen people mention that something is mumbled before "POLICE!" is screamed by Patsy. I've seen only a couple people mention it, and their interpretation of that utterance is way different from what I hear.

What I hear at the beginning of the call is so significant, I have to wonder if I'm either wrong, or how on earth it's been overlooked.
Before the word, "Police!":
"Hun, we need an am-"

That's what I clearly hear. Is that what you're hearing, too?
 
PR definitely speaks at the beginning of her 911 call, but I can't decipher what she's saying. Believe me, I've listened to this call so many times - my ears are blowing up.
 
Before the word, "Police!":
"Hun, we need an am-"

That's what I clearly hear. Is that what you're hearing, too?

No. I have seen that suggested a couple of times, and when I listened I could "almost" hear that until I listened closer.

What I hear now is going to give me trouble sleeping. I actually almost wish I was wrong, though it would be a pretty big piece of the puzzle.

I think I'm going to set up a sound board in the next few days with all the audio clips of each anomaly in the 911 call, with and without noise reduction, and at multiple speeds. Would that interest you all?

Again, I am hesitant to post my interpretation for this new find because if others hear it, the other side will just claim confirmation bias (not that claiming confirmation bias is a sound defense, but why give them an inch).
 
The Dr Phil episode of him interviewing Burke is being aired again right now.

I want to know *IF* an IDI, HOW did the intruder get away without a trace? (Was it because the entire crime scene was contaminated). I just don't understand. No fingerprints, no DNA, nobody heard ANYTHING?

Why hasn't there been any justice for JB yet?

Such a sad, sad case.
 
Alright, I'll post what I'm hearing in the beginning of the call only. Important to note, tonight is the first night I've worked hard on the beginning of the call and this is my current thought on the utterance between "911 Emergency" and "Police!" after running the call through noise reduction and then listening at multiple speeds.

I believe I hear a woman in the middle of saying something before realizing the call has connected to 911.

What I hear is a horrible, agonized, painful, gutteral wailing of a woman saying the words:

"her remains"

I'll post the audio tomorrow for your consideration. If you hear what I hear, you're going to be disturbed by the agony in the voice.

Also, I hear an inhaling gasp as the voice goes from "her remains" to "Police!". In my opinion, that inhaling gasp is what others have mistaken as "an am-"

All just my opinion. I certainly could be completely wrong. I can't see how LE would have missed this.
 
No. I have seen that suggested a couple of times, and when I listened I could "almost" hear that until I listened closer.

What I hear now is going to give me trouble sleeping. I actually almost wish I was wrong, though it would be a pretty big piece of the puzzle.

I think I'm going to set up a sound board in the next few days with all the audio clips of each anomaly in the 911 call, with and without noise reduction, and at multiple speeds. Would that interest you all?

Again, I am hesitant to post my interpretation for this new find because if others hear it, the other side will just claim confirmation bias (not that claiming confirmation bias is a sound defense, but why give them an inch).
I haven't spent much time on this, and maybe I've been influenced by what I've read somewhere.. I don't know. I don't have any kind of sophisticated equipment, just some good speakers. I'd be very interested in knowing more. Yes, please.
 
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