Questions you'd like answers to...

[BoldBear]

I just hear an "hur-r we need". She's definitely trying to catch her breath in a type of emotional panic.

 

[BBB167893]

General question...do any of us think that one day there will be justice for JB?

Depends on your definition of "justice."

 

[SerenitySprings]

Hear it for yourselves: (Use headphones)

slowed a bit:

https://clyp.it/zvf1cobq

slow, isolated:

https://clyp.it/xjrez3lx

slower, isolated:

https://clyp.it/0enepeyv

even slower, isolated:

https://clyp.it/ahqqfmi2

To me, it's disturbing. Could we be hearing the sticking point, the part of the plan so horrible one of them couldn't go along with it and instead called 911 without the other's consent?

This is so very important. Can you by chance post the end of the call too, with the slowed down and isolated bits like you did for this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[WoodForTheTrees]

Hey all, first time poster here, so hi! I've done a lot of reading and it's so hard to find things on here sometimes and also to keep things straight in my head so apologies if I'm asking annoying questions.
I'd like to know more about the bedwetting than I can find. For example. I don't believe the PDI over a wet bed theory, but, JBRs room was quite far from her parents. Did Patsy allegedly used to check and discover she had wet the bed before she went to sleep herself? in my experience kids usually wet in the early AM, so Patsy wouldn't know. or would JBR sleep right through with a wet bed? I never used to, it woke me up when I was little. And my daughter and step son both have woken up when they used to wet the bed sometimes. So would she change herself and get in the other bed or would she make the walk to her mother in the middle of the night? Or do most children sleep through bedwetting and I'm just overthinking this all??! I'm just struggling with her being a regular bed wetter but her room so far away and how was it "managed" every time IYSWIM?

 

[RDI]

Hey people,

First time post here. I posted something on Reddit in the past few days and someone pointed me in your direction, specifically the discussion you've been having since post #1014 by Disgusted.

Have any of watched this video uploaded by a youtuber in 2012? I am wondering if this is close to what Disgusted has heard on the last portion of the 911 call? I am hoping youtube links are allowed....

[video=youtube;686Ic9-yIwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=686Ic9-yIwo[/video]

 

[Userid]

^ Wow, great video, thank you. It does sound like "Sweety" and "Arrest me" at the end.

 

[Disgusted]

Hey people,

First time post here. I posted something on Reddit in the past few days and someone pointed me in your direction, specifically the discussion you've been having since post #1014 by Disgusted.

Have any of watched this video uploaded by a youtuber in 2012? I am wondering if this is close to what Disgusted has heard on the last portion of the 911 call? I am hoping youtube links are allowed....

[video=youtube;686Ic9-yIwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=686Ic9-yIwo[/video]

No. Not even remotely close.

Honestly, that audio is pretty terrible. Did that person do any noise reduction or spreading it out at all?

Unfortunately, it's beginning to appear to me that most people either don't have good equipment, or are unable to hear beyond what I would call the "surface noise" and really think about the spacing of the sounds and not allowing your mind to fill in sounds or letters that you think should be there but aren't. A perfect example is the utterance at the beginning of the call. It is so easy to debunk most people's interpretations, yet they persist. The cleared audio, slowed way down, clearly proves there is no "P", "N" or "D" sound anywhere in that audio yet so many are sticking to the belief that it says "help we need".

The one thing the above video does have right (albeit the interpretation is likely wrong), is that there is some background words spoken during the call.

All just my humble opinion.

Edited to add: The above video is also misinterpreting key strokes as speech sounds in a couple instances. One of the crucial keys is identifying the keystrokes and factoring them out of the interpretation. A generic example would be the word "eat". If someone says eat and a keystroke happens to land at the beginning of the word, most people will think they heard "cheat" or "sheet" or "seat" for example. The keystroke merging with the voice and adding what the listener thinks is a "CH" or "SH" sound to the word. For every phrase spoken on the audio where there is obvious keystrokes occurring, you have to figure out which part of the sound is keystroke and which part is voice. I told you all it wasn't going to be easy.

 

[RDI]

No. Not even remotely close.

Honestly, that audio is pretty terrible. Did that person do any noise reduction or spreading it out at all?

Unfortunately, it's beginning to appear to me that most people either don't have good equipment, or are unable to hear beyond what I would call the "surface noise" and really think about the spacing of the sounds and not allowing your mind to fill in sounds or letters that you think should be there but aren't. A perfect example is the utterance at the beginning of the call. It is so easy to debunk most people's interpretations, yet they persist. The cleared audio, slowed way down, clearly proves there is no "P", "N" or "D" sound anywhere in that audio yet so many are sticking to the belief that it says "help we need".

The one thing the above video does have right (albeit the interpretation is likely wrong), is that there is some background words spoken during the call.

All just my humble opinion.

Edited to add: The above video is also misinterpreting key strokes as speech sounds in a couple instances. One of the crucial keys is identifying the keystrokes and factoring them out of the interpretation. A generic example would be the word "eat". If someone says eat and a keystroke happens to land at the beginning of the word, most people will think they heard "cheat" or "sheet" or "seat" for example. The keystroke merging with the voice and adding what the listener thinks is a "CH" or "SH" sound to the word. For every phrase spoken on the audio where there is obvious keystrokes occurring, you have to figure out which part of the sound is keystroke and which part is voice. I told you all it wasn't going to be easy.

Well you'd know more about the noise reduction than me. Was there a clear version available in 2012? The 'arrest me' part seems so clear.

 

[kanzz]

Hey all, first time poster here, so hi! I've done a lot of reading and it's so hard to find things on here sometimes and also to keep things straight in my head so apologies if I'm asking annoying questions.
I'd like to know more about the bedwetting than I can find. For example. I don't believe the PDI over a wet bed theory, but, JBRs room was quite far from her parents. Did Patsy allegedly used to check and discover she had wet the bed before she went to sleep herself? in my experience kids usually wet in the early AM, so Patsy wouldn't know. or would JBR sleep right through with a wet bed? I never used to, it woke me up when I was little. And my daughter and step son both have woken up when they used to wet the bed sometimes. So would she change herself and get in the other bed or would she make the walk to her mother in the middle of the night? Or do most children sleep through bedwetting and I'm just overthinking this all??! I'm just struggling with her being a regular bed wetter but her room so far away and how was it "managed" every time IYSWIM?

Welcome, WoodForTheTrees!

You make some very great points about when kids generally wet the bed - it isn't usually early in the sleep cycle and it does usually wake them. Somewhere, I think I've seen it said that JB often had wet sheets in the morning. I think that was attributed to LHP, the housekeeper. I don't know that we have anything truly reliable, but maybe another person here will be more helpful. FWIW, I don't believe PDI over a wet bed either.

 

[BoldBear]

There are some very expensive noise reduction packages on the market that I'll never be able to afford. They start at around $2k and up. They remove sample noise patterns found earlier in the recording. Other noise reduction products will often remove a band of the sound, drop the highs or simply gate noises out. If these could be run through a good sound recording studio who has some of these really high-end noise reducing products, much more of the noise can be cleaned-out. If we can also get an expert at operating the noise reduction packages, it'll be a lot better.

I have Sonar, but don't have any of the plugins for this type of thing.

 

[andreww]

The question I'd like answered here is what it would take to close this case if LE concludes BDI. We all know that when this crime happened Burke was just shy of 10 years old and thus couldn't be charged. I would think in the case of a minor committing a crime, that LE would come to agreement with the parents that the child had in fact committed the crime and that appropriate counselling/therapy would be provided. Then the case would be closed. In this case it is now 20 years later and the case is high profile. To close the case with no charges and no public explanation would draw huge suspicion, primarily towards Burke. I would assume that in Boulder the laws regarding minors is similar to what it is in Canada in that their names are protected and are not allowed to be published, and that their records are cleared once they reach adulthood? So closing the case as BDI would likely violate Burke's rights as a minor, as it would be quite obvious what had happened.

It makes me wonder if this case wasn't solved in the early stages but because the case was so high profile, there was simply no way to close it AND protect Burke's rights as a minor?

 

[kanzz]

Hey people,

First time post here. I posted something on Reddit in the past few days and someone pointed me in your direction, specifically the discussion you've been having since post #1014 by Disgusted.

Have any of watched this video uploaded by a youtuber in 2012? I am wondering if this is close to what Disgusted has heard on the last portion of the 911 call? I am hoping youtube links are allowed....

Welcome, RDI - and thank you for your contribution!

Though I've seen this vid before, it's a good review. All input is welcome here. Hope you'll stick around. We appreciate all RDI convo.

 

[RDI]

The question I'd like answered here is what it would take to close this case if LE concludes BDI. We all know that when this crime happened Burke was just shy of 10 years old and thus couldn't be charged. I would think in the case of a minor committing a crime, that LE would come to agreement with the parents that the child had in fact committed the crime and that appropriate counselling/therapy would be provided. Then the case would be closed. In this case it is now 20 years later and the case is high profile. To close the case with no charges and no public explanation would draw huge suspicion, primarily towards Burke. I would assume that in Boulder the laws regarding minors is similar to what it is in Canada in that their names are protected and are not allowed to be published, and that their records are cleared once they reach adulthood? So closing the case as BDI would likely violate Burke's rights as a minor, as it would be quite obvious what had happened.

It makes me wonder if this case wasn't solved in the early stages but because the case was so high profile, there was simply no way to close it AND protect Burke's rights as a minor?

I would agree with what you say, isn't this the current thinking of why the case hasn't been shut? What annoys me is that JR or PR couldn't be prosecuted for what we would call 'obstruction of justice' here in Britain. Again though, this could be linked in to outing Burke as you have already stated.

 

[RDI]

Welcome, RDI - and thank you for your contribution!

Though I've seen this vid before, it's a good review. All input is welcome here. Hope you'll stick around. We appreciate all RDI convo.

Thank you! I look forward to hearing more from Disgusted on the last portion of the 911 call. To be honest it freaks me out listening to the 911 call on repeat with what we suspect went on.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Welcome, WoodForTheTrees!

You make some very great points about when kids generally wet the bed - it isn't usually early in the sleep cycle and it does usually wake them. Somewhere, I think I've seen it said that JB often had wet sheets in the morning. I think that was attributed to LHP, the housekeeper. I don't know that we have anything truly reliable, but maybe another person here will be more helpful. FWIW, I don't believe PDI over a wet bed either.

Yes, welcome WoodForTheTrees! The source for that was Steve Thomas's book.

For the first six months Hoffmann-Pugh worked there, she said, JonBenét wet the bed every night, and Patsy even had the girl in pull-up diapers. Then the bed-wetting had stopped, but it had resumed about a month ago. When Hoffmann-Pugh arrived for work, she said, Patsy already had the bed stripped and the sheets going in the washing machine.

I also recall reading that Patsy talked about JB's bedwetting with Pam Griffin and told her that she'd often check on JB around midnight and make sure she went to the bathroom so there would be no accidents. I think it's in PMPT but I don't have that on Kindle so I can't search it. Here's former housekeeper Linda Wilcox on the bedwetting and JB drinking before bed (at a younger age):

LINDA WILCOX: One, I keep hearing a lot of little things, misconceptions, that I wanted to clear up. The other, I personally have a very hard time with the Ramseys going on national television, blatantly lying and not having anyone speak up to contradict what they are saying.

PETER BOYLES: An example?

LINDA WILCOX: An example, when John Ramsey says to the camera, I didn't know she wet the bed, or not very much. I happen to know myself, he walked upstairs, she had wet her bed, I came in on a Monday morning and he said, "could you change her bed? She's wet it again." The thing that strikes me as odd, I knew her between 2 1/2 and 4. During that time, she did wet the bed but it wasn't chronic. It was every now and then. Early on, I mean 2 1/2 year olds always do, I mean it seems like they always have accidents. But, it got progressively worse. I would think that a 6 year old would wet the bed less than a 4 year old or a 2 year old. It actually got worse, it was moderate, she didn't have rubber sheets at that point, a pull-up would hold it. But her and Burke both wet the bed. Burke was 7 years old and he also wet the bed. I didn't think it was odd at the time, because it sometimes runs in families and it's more common in boys. And, their parents were lazy.

PETER BOYLES: Is it true you have knowledge of her bedwetting, prior to her death?

LINDA WILCOX: Prior to her death? Well, she did it for the 2 1/2 years I was there.

PETER BOYLES: Do you have any knowledge of her bedwetting just prior to her death, perhaps the weekend before her death?

LINDA WILCOX: No.

PETER BOYLES: You told me in another conversation, I dont' want to put words in your mouth, that JonBenet took a bottle really late in life.

LINDA WILCOX: She was in Nursery School. She was about 3 1/2 or 4. Suzanne, the nanny, was trying to break her from the bottle. It was, she turned 4 that august and that summer she pretty much broken from it. But, she was 3 years old, she was going to nursery school and she... Suzanne used to threaten that she was going to tell her nursery school friends that she was still using a bottlle to get her to stop because she was way too old to be using one. Um, she wasn't a good sleeper. She didn't sleep well and John, in particular, would get frustrated with her trying to get her to bed and he would put her to bed with a bottle and a video.

Doesn't seem like a good idea to put a bedwetter to sleep with a bottle but I don't have kids.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Miz Adventure]

Hey people,

First time post here. I posted something on Reddit in the past few days and someone pointed me in your direction, specifically the discussion you've been having since post #1014 by Disgusted.

Have any of watched this video uploaded by a youtuber in 2012? I am wondering if this is close to what Disgusted has heard on the last portion of the 911 call? I am hoping youtube links are allowed....

[video=youtube;686Ic9-yIwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=686Ic9-yIwo[/video]

Thanks for that, RDI.

I haven't listened to anything clearer so cannot compare but to my ears it certainly sounds like Patsy is saying those words. I'm getting her genuine panic 'vibes' as well.

 

[kanzz]

Yes, welcome WoodForTheTrees! The source for that was Steve Thomas's book.

I also recall reading that Patsy talked about JB's bedwetting with Pam Griffin and told her that she'd often check on JB around midnight and make sure she went to the bathroom so there would be no accidents. I think it's in PMPT but I don't have that on Kindle so I can't search it. Here's former housekeeper Linda Wilcox on the bedwetting and JB drinking before bed (at a younger age):

Doesn't seem like a good idea to put a bedwetter to sleep with a bottle but I don't have kids.

Thanks, DFF. We can always count on you.
I've always thought - That business about PR checking on JB at midnight so there would be no accidents? hmm :thinking: Didn't seem to work out very well.

Putting kids to bed with a bottle? Not a good idea at any age, for many reasons. Tooth decay and ear infections for starters. But a 3yo? I'll say it - lazy parenting. Don't cave in to a whining child.

 

[WoodForTheTrees]

Thanks for the welcomes guys! It's very nice. I'm sure I've read that generally Burke was an early riser so for Patsy to be checking on JonBenet around midnight and then having to be up early with Burke I'm a bit impressed. I've got two kids (when I've not got stepson as well) and I'm exhausted! I'm in bed way earlier than midnight for my early risers!
Anyways...! So it sounds like JBR didn't wake up PR with her bedwetting otherwise surely PR would be a light sleeper generally in which case how did the alleged intruder(s) not wake her??
Also I feel it then kind of diminishes the "Patsy was fed up of cleaning up JonBenet in the night and exhausted and accidentally hit her in a worn out rage" idea because well.... it sounds like she WASN'T getting up loads to see to it. But yes like everyone says it's very hard to tell what may have some truth to it at all coming from the Ramsey's anyway.

 

[otg]

There are some very expensive noise reduction packages on the market that I'll never be able to afford. They start at around $2k and up. They remove sample noise patterns found earlier in the recording. Other noise reduction products will often remove a band of the sound, drop the highs or simply gate noises out. If these could be run through a good sound recording studio who has some of these really high-end noise reducing products, much more of the noise can be cleaned-out. If we can also get an expert at operating the noise reduction packages, it'll be a lot better.

I have Sonar, but don't have any of the plugins for this type of thing.

There's no need to spend a penny on expensive noise reduction software like that, BB. You can get prolly almost the same thing with some of the free programs available. I've used NCH's Wavepad software for years, and Audacity has similar features and IMO just as good. Depends on your preferences. Take a look at how each of them works and decide which features you like the most.

Wavepad:
http://help.nchsoftware.com/help/en/wavepad/win/noisereduction.html

Audacity:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Noise_Reduction

I used Wavepad a long time ago to reduce the background noise, and also to tone down the distracting taps of the keystrokes of the 911 operator heard in the recording. I mistakenly called it an "enhancement" when I first did it, and then corrected it to call it what it actually is: a "cleaned-up" version. ZoriahNZ recently linked to them and some further work she(?) did with them. TY, Zoriah, for continuing to carry the torch. (I love NZ, BTW -- beautiful country!)

I'm glad people are finally starting to look at the beginning of the recording. Before the CBS documentary aired, I even tried to contact CBS producers and Clemente to try and get them to take a close look at the beginning. sigh: Oh well, guess I just became one of those thousands of Ramsey case nutjobs who thinks they know something no one else has considered.)


Edited to add: There are two threads dedicated to the 911 call here at WS. Anyone interested might want to take a look at what has already been done by many dedicated WS'ers.

 

[Disgusted]

Can someone post or point me to all interview statements from both John and Patsy describing the placing of the 911 call. E.g. where they were located, where the note was while the call was placed, who was where, how far the note was away from the caller, etc etc.

Thanks.