Questions you'd like answers to...

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I agree. If JB had put on the size 12 from her drawer where P mentioned to have put, I see no reason for the rest of the package to disappear.

Similarly if P had put on the size 12 from the drawer, it wouldn't be too unusual for her prints to be on the package as she is the one who bought them and put them there then why hide the package at all? Doesn't make much sense to me though not impossible of course.

It rather seems to me B or JR whose prints on the package couldn't be explained , took out the pants from the package and put on JB thus the need to hide the package.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Another scenario maybe P was the one who put it on JB during the staging but
not taking them from jB's drawer but from her own drawer for instance hence the rest of the package had to be hidden cause jb wouldn't take it fom mom's drawer.

 

[UKGuy]

Another scenario maybe P was the one who put it on JB during the staging but
not taking them from jB's drawer but from her own drawer for instance hence the rest of the package had to be hidden cause jb wouldn't take it fom mom's drawer.

MURDERER_SERVANT,
if Patsy redressed JonBenet in the size-12's as you suggest, then she needs a reason For JonBenet wearing size-12's. So her story about giving the size-12's to JonBenet is fine, except none are to be found in the house.

No size-12's must mean neither JonBenet or Patsy used the size-12's since neither have a reason to make them vanish.


That leaves BR or JR as suspects. My money is on BR, not least because Patsy seems to cover for him.

.

 

[BoldBear]

More red herrings. It's not a matter of occupational or fine motor skills. As I said before, WHY would she want to put on a pair of undies too big for her when there's plenty of others her size? And as UK Guy asked, where were the other oversized undies?
[snip]

A little girl would have no reason to dress up in her mother's clothes or put on makeup. "WHY would she want to put on a pair of undies too big for her when there's plenty of others her size?" Because children play.

It's okay if this stance suits your theory. We all speculate, but there are so many assumptions we make based on our own bias. We know she had on the oversized bloomies when she was found. We also have Patsy's story about where she purchased the package and where she says she put them. We also know that the police didn't find them during the murder investigation. They might have been found in the family's boxes from the move because a package was supposedly turned over to the police by a third party.

Everything else that doesn't have documentation behind it is just speculation.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Were there any Christmas presents bought for the rest of the family found at home other than merely Jenny and her infamous panties which happened to be on JB when she was found dead?

I'm sure this was speculated before but If they weren't for Jenny , then for whom it could be bought? It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they were bought for the jealous sibling and came from his drawer.

 

[Buttons]

Were there any Christmas presents bought for the rest of the family found at home other than merely Jenny and her infamous panties which happened to be on JB when she was found dead?

I'm sure this was speculated before but If they weren't for Jenny , then for whom it could be bought? It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they were bought for the jealous sibling and came from his drawer.

There were some partially wrapped gifts in the wine cellar that can be seen in some of the crime scene photographs.

I don't doubt that the larger Bloomies were supposed to be a gift for Patsy's niece. The real discrepancy is in her story concerning JonBenét not only asking for the larger underwear but being able to wear them comfortably. How did she know that they didn't fall down to her ankles? Only one pack of panties that size were (eventually) found and the only pair missing were the ones that JonBenét came to be wearing on the day she was found. Patsy claimed to not remember what underwear JonBenét had been wearing both on the day and the night prior so when did she witness JonBenét wearing Bloomies of that size? Also, they absolutely would have fallen down to her ankles and been very uncomfortable to wear under any clothing.

I personally believe that they were wrapped for Patsy's niece until Christmas night and that she was the only one who had knowledge of them. Perhaps JonBenét had been wearing the same Wednesday Bloomies in a smaller size and Patsy thought a larger duplicate pair wouldn't raise any suspicion. I'm not sure if John or Burke would have thought to search for a pack of wrapped and unopened underwear in that situation but it's possible, I suppose.

 

[Userid]

More red herrings. It's not a matter of occupational or fine motor skills. As I said before, WHY would she want to put on a pair of undies too big for her when there's plenty of others her size? And as UK Guy asked, where were the other oversized undies?

"But he's nine or almost ten" is one of the biggest red herrings. James Bulger was struck by 30 blows with bricks, a 22 pound iron bar, had paint rubbed in his eyes and batteries shoved up his rectum before he was put on the tracks for a train to sever his body. The damage was done by adults right? Nope they were two children.

"BR didn't think ahead." Really? How do you know for a fact he wasn't stewing for days and weeks? I'm one of those who think it was an accident but I'm not ruling out premeditation. Perhaps one of the reasons for the call to 911 on 12/23? IMO the GJ found out PR and JR should have protected JR from BR but they didn't.





ITA. I reckon Kolar and UK Guy have figured out pert near what the GJ did. And this is without the benefit of actually being there in 1999.

(To the bolded) Because she liked them (the design, etc.); plain and simple.

Actually, I asked UK Guy where the other panties were also. Both sides can ask that question, because they were never recovered. He said he didn't know; as did I.

You need to look up the definition of what a red herring is. The fact he was nine years old isn't a red herring; it's a fact. There's a difference. The Bulger case proves children don't think ahead; they both were easily caught soon after that crime, so how that helps this particular point in your favor is beyond me. No one ever said children weren't capable of inexplicable evil; the argument from my end was, that they weren't sophisticated enough to cover for themselves, which was true in the Bulger case.

How do I know he wasn't stewing for weeks ahead of the crime? I'll answer that with a question: how do you know he was? You don't, all the same.

 

[Userid]

Userid,

Of course I cannot prove a negative. Yet the possibility exists. It is a counter-example to what you posted, e.g.



We know they were in the house, Patsy purchased them, it is pretty much a no-brainer. For some reason it must conflict with your favorite theory.

.

(To the bolded) How so? Explain it to me.

 

[Userid]

Another scenario maybe P was the one who put it on JB during the staging but
not taking them from jB's drawer but from her own drawer for instance hence the rest of the package had to be hidden cause jb wouldn't take it fom mom's drawer.

Good point. There are many possibilities -- that's my point. The fact the package was never recovered from the house doesn't definitely prove or disprove a particular suspect.

 

[Userid]

There were some partially wrapped gifts in the wine cellar that can be seen in some of the crime scene photographs.

I don't doubt that the larger Bloomies were supposed to be a gift for Patsy's niece. The real discrepancy is in her story concerning JonBenét not only asking for the larger underwear but being able to wear them comfortably. How did she know that they didn't fall down to her ankles? Only one pack of panties that size were (eventually) found and the only pair missing were the ones that JonBenét came to be wearing on the day she was found. Patsy claimed to not remember what underwear JonBenét had been wearing both on the day and the night prior so when did she witness JonBenét wearing Bloomies of that size? Also, they absolutely would have fallen down to her ankles and been very uncomfortable to wear under any clothing.

I personally believe that they were wrapped for Patsy's niece until Christmas night and that she was the only one who had knowledge of them. Perhaps JonBenét had been wearing the same Wednesday Bloomies in a smaller size and Patsy thought a larger duplicate pair wouldn't raise any suspicion. I'm not sure if John or Burke would have thought to search for a pack of wrapped and unopened underwear in that situation but it's possible, I suppose.

(To the bolded) I've thought this too. This would particularly be true if PR (or JR) knew someone at the White's party had direct knowledge that JBR was wearing the smaller version of the Bloomies underwear; such as, if someone else had to assist JBR in the bathroom (Mrs. White?), etc. So that would be a logical reason why the bigger version was used in the staging. Moreover, it explains why the many other, more appropriately-sized underwear was not used.

One thing that you want to consider in your theory is, if you think the gift was wrapped and ready to go, why didn't PR have it sent already (i.e. before Christmas)? She would want to have it sent to her niece in time for Christmas, I would imagine.

 

[Buttons]

(To the bolded) I've thought this too. This would particularly be true if PR (or JR) knew someone at the White's party had direct knowledge that JBR was wearing the smaller version of the Bloomies underwear; such as, if someone else had to assist JBR in the bathroom (Mrs. White?), etc. So that would be a logical reason why the bigger version was used in the staging. Moreover, it explains why the many other, more appropriately-sized underwear was not used.

One thing that you want to consider in your theory is, if you think the gift was wrapped and ready to go, why didn't PR have it sent already (i.e. before Christmas)? She would want to have it sent to her niece in time for Christmas, I would imagine.

Exactly. They were not sophisticated criminals, quite the contrary, actually. She probably thought that the size of the underwear would be overlooked.

Hmm, you're right. They could have arranged to see them after Christmas Day, or forgotten the gift if they had already been. Even if they weren't wrapped and she had stored them somewhere in the house, I still believe that she remembered them during the events of that night and thought them her safest choice.

 

[Jolamom]

Again, that wouldn't have made sense, if the whole point was to stage an intruder. An intruder wouldn't have known where to find her underwear.

Again, you are correct in what you say but that is not the story Patsy gave. Maybe she should have thought her way through it before she claimed she gave the package to JonBenèt and the remaining panties from the package should be located in her draw. Which they were not. If the Ramsey's then wanted to continue with the intruder theory, they should not have magically turned up with the package that contained the remaining Bloomies years later. It did not fit their story and, for me, it became a huge red flag.

 

[Ambitioned]

Again, you are correct in what you say but that is not the story Patsy gave. Maybe she should have thought her way through it before she claimed she gave the package to JonBenèt and the remaining panties from the package should be located in her draw. Which they were not. If the Ramsey's then wanted to continue with the intruder theory, they should not have magically turned up with the package that contained the remaining Bloomies years later. It did not fit their story and, for me, it became a huge red flag.

:thumb: Nailed it

 

[UKGuy]

(To the bolded) I've thought this too. This would particularly be true if PR (or JR) knew someone at the White's party had direct knowledge that JBR was wearing the smaller version of the Bloomies underwear; such as, if someone else had to assist JBR in the bathroom (Mrs. White?), etc. So that would be a logical reason why the bigger version was used in the staging. Moreover, it explains why the many other, more appropriately-sized underwear was not used.

One thing that you want to consider in your theory is, if you think the gift was wrapped and ready to go, why didn't PR have it sent already (i.e. before Christmas)? She would want to have it sent to her niece in time for Christmas, I would imagine.

Userid,
Not unless Patsy's explanation regarding the size-12's is false? Millionaire relative purchasing underwear as a Christmas gift, when we know how showy Patsy was, does not really add up. JonBenet was given a gold necklace, not bad for six-year old, but the niece only gets Day Of The Week underwear, mmm.

Then as you say, it was never sent, so Jenny is twice insulted, maybe three, as Patsy says lets not bother with Jenny, you can have them JonBenet?

.
.

 

[BoldBear]

Userid,
Not unless Patsy's explanation regarding the size-12's is false? Millionaire relative purchasing underwear as a Christmas gift, when we know how showy Patsy was, does not really add up. JonBenet was given a gold necklace, not bad for six-year old, but the niece only gets Day Of The Week underwear, mmm.

Then as you say, it was never sent, so Jenny is twice insulted, maybe three, as Patsy says lets not bother with Jenny, you can have them JonBenet?

.
.

We don't know the full story here. The underwear might have been one of several packages.

 

[k-mac]

Again, you are correct in what you say but that is not the story Patsy gave. Maybe she should have thought her way through it before she claimed she gave the package to JonBenèt and the remaining panties from the package should be located in her draw. Which they were not. If the Ramsey's then wanted to continue with the intruder theory, they should not have magically turned up with the package that contained the remaining Bloomies years later. It did not fit their story and, for me, it became a huge red flag.

so strange the bloomies turning up at a later date.
the most in your face staging of all!
I believe its a completely new package to support the intruder dna.
because of course the original package would likely have 6 more pairs with similar markings.
said it before ill say it again....the magical arrival of bloomies was to introduce isolation to that one pair of size 12 Wednesdays. (foreign dna)

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I've waited for Aunt Pam to be blamed for taking the panties when she was retrieving things from the house. You know an honest mistake.

I think Pasty didn't use what was in JonBenet panty drawer because they had poop stains,and Pasty wouldn't of wanted her to be found in them.

Pasty's attorney handed over a red sweater that Pasty said she wearing , brand new and still had the fold marks,

 

[UKGuy]

We don't know the full story here. The underwear might have been one of several packages.

BoldBear,
mmm, you wish. The house was searched upside down no size-12's were found. We do know the story, just not if it's the correct one!

.

 

[UKGuy]

so strange the bloomies turning up at a later date.
the most in your face staging of all!
I believe its a completely new package to support the intruder dna.
because of course the original package would likely have 6 more pairs with similar markings.
said it before ill say it again....the magical arrival of bloomies was to introduce isolation to that one pair of size 12 Wednesdays. (foreign dna)

k-mac,
You would expect at least one pair of the size-12's returned to contain matching dna to the pair JonBenet was found in, otherwise you can assume they come from a different batch of manufacture?

Also I wonder if those Blomingdale's have any hidden Quality Control markings? Most stuff has so they can trace back to the maker?

.

 

[Ambitioned]

BoldBear,
mmm, you wish. The house was searched upside down no size-12's were found. We do know the story, just not if it's the correct one!

.

In reading through transcripts I am only seeing reference to one size 12 package not several.

Also from seeing these pictures comparing JB to a girl Jenny's size, I stand by my earlier claim that JB would not put them on willingly. JMO.

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