Ramsey's on CNN

  • #21
You certainly don't need motive, but when you don't have enough evidence motive is inevitably part of what an investigation tries to determine.

Would you tell Steve Thomas that his attempt to find motive was irrelevant and pointless?

I am just trying to do what the detectives did.

No, nothing about being in a pageant or owning a boat is inherently pathological.

But the proximity of profound traumas (JR's losses, PR's cancer), possible sexual abuse (JB's vaginal injuries), obsessive attention to surface details (participation in pageants leading friends to prepare to stage an intervention with PR, extravagant house tours that locals found appalling) all combine to paint a picture about what might have led to these horrifying events...

Would you tell Steve Thomas that his attempt to find motive was irrelevant and pointless?
I'm not saying motive is irrelevant. I'm saying there is no use in us making up motives when we have nothing to base our opinion on.

Steve Thomas was looking at a severe head injury. There is reason to speculate that there might have been an accidental "rage" injury. I don't particularly go for this explanation, but it does make a modicum of sense.

You are attempting to analyze the R's "inner world", by which I take it that you mean their psychological state, by claiming that "surface details" tell us something about the R's motivation. But they don't.

But the proximity of profound traumas (JR's losses, PR's cancer), possible sexual abuse (JB's vaginal injuries), obsessive attention to surface details (participation in pageants leading friends to prepare to stage an intervention with PR, extravagant house tours that locals found appalling) all combine to paint a picture about what might have led to these horrifying events...
The only solid thing in that paragraph is the chronic vaginal injuries. That's the whole point I'm making - none of the stuff you mention (except the vaginal injuries) indicates anything at all. You want to paint a picture, so you paint one, but it's w/o substance. Pageants and house tours do not combine to paint a picture of what happened that night, much less why. We want badly to make sense of this case and we must guard against making up stuff. I've been guilty of doing some amateur "psychoanalysis" of the Rs too, at various times. It's hard to resist. We want to get inside their heads and figure out what they were thinking and why they did what they did. But it's best not to go too far down that road, and just let the evidence point us.

House tours are house tours. You can accuse them of being show-offs, but that's about it. Pageants are pageants. I find the idea of child beauty pageants sickening, but then I find it sickening when a dad constantly pushes his son to be an athlete. No doubt PR was taking the pageant thing way too seriously, but it had been a great thing in her life, so it makes some sense. More to the point, it tells us absolutely nothing about the psychological state of the Rs on that fateful night. JRs traumas also tell us nothing.

Chronic vaginal injuries tell us that JB might have been sexually abused, and not just the night of her death.
 
  • #22
I'm not saying motive is irrelevant. I'm saying there is no use in us making up motives when we have nothing to base our opinion on.

You are attempting to analyze the R's "inner world", by which I take it that you mean their psychological state, by claiming that "surface details" tell us something about the R's motivation. But they don't.

The only solid thing in that paragraph is the chronic vaginal injuries.

Yes, the chronic vaginal injuries is solid. But it is an objective fact that sexual abuse often happens in a home where the perpetrator is under stress, is in pain, is in crisis... the losses JR had suffered as well as his wife's stage 4 cancer could all help explain why he was abusing JB, if he was.

Similarly, the emphasis on PR's attention to surfaces and "perfection" is significant in light of her cancer. How did a woman who needed to dress her daughter in make up, dye her hair, alter her teeth, etc, react to having a body length scar before the age of 40?

I know there is no way to "know" anything about the Ramsey's inner world, their psychological state, but we need to try to link the facts as we know them to the atmosphere that may have motivated them.
 
  • #23
I find it PARTICULARLY interesting that John says in this interview that they were never asked to take a polygraph, yet in PMPT it says that in 1997 the police asked the Ramsey's if they would take a polygraph and Patsy said she would take 100 but John said 'I have never been so insulted in all my life' and refused to take it! He then says in this interview that he would of course take one! Caught in a lie?

That's NOTHING compared to the BS barrage they unleashed later that year when they tried to convince us that they actually took a polygraph.
 
  • #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef88
I find it PARTICULARLY interesting that John says in this interview that they were never asked to take a polygraph, yet in PMPT it says that in 1997 the police asked the Ramsey's if they would take a polygraph and Patsy said she would take 100 but John said 'I have never been so insulted in all my life' and refused to take it! He then says in this interview that he would of course take one! Caught in a lie?


SD replied:That's NOTHING compared to the BS barrage they unleashed later that year when they tried to convince us that they actually took a polygraph.

You know, just using this one incident (of which there are many) as an example, shows that John Ramsey exhibits classic symptoms of being a pathological liar.
 

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