Random Thoughts and Discussion Ideas#6 About the Case

[Marina2]

While, I personally believe Casey is likely guilty, I do think it's important to separate out information that is not germaine to guilt from that which is. Specifically, I want to addresss Casey's partying/hot body contest behavior/boyfriends. I do not believe that these activities bear any relation to her guilt or innocence. As evidence of this, I submit this link to a case in which a young woman was wrongly convicted of murdering her husband in a great part due to her partying behavior in the wake of his death and also due to her inquiries regarding insurance and money. Cindy Sommers actually participated in a thong competition at a nightclub. She also slept with quite a number of men shortly after her husband's death who were all brought forth in the trial.

The prosecusion held that Cindys Sommers' husband had been poisoned by her with arsenic and showed test results depicting arsenic in his kidneys and liver. A defense expert testified that there should have been arsenic all over the husband's body, not just in the liver or kidneys as the prosecutions tests revealed and the fact that there was no evidence to indicate that Cindy Sommers had ever bought arsenic or been in contact with it and there was no one who knew her to have an unhappy marriage or any complaints about her husband.

I think the article below is very informative and shows how this kind of information can give a false impression about the truth of a situation in court.

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/25/945575.aspx

The conviction was reversed after if was discovered that the original prosecutory lab tests were completely incorrect and corrupted and on re-test that none of the samples taken from the husbands body contained any traces of arsenic whatsoever.

I suspect that the defense will successfully avoid the boyfriend/hot body contest/partying information from being presented at Casey's trial because Andrea Lyon won't allow that to be entered into evidence. Without all of that, we are left with:

Lab tests of trunk of car (still questionable after Linda Baden gets done with them)
Casey's squirrel info to AH and other text messages
Caylee's body and autopsy and related evidence
Casey's lies
Video of Casey at Blockbuster with TL on the evening of the day Caylee supposedly died looking fine.
TL's testimony about Casey's nightmares.
Internet searches on the Anthony home computer - no proof they were done by Casey
Financial crimes

What else is left in the way of evidence for the trial and does it really prove Casey is guilty?

Regarding the text I bolded:
I think there's a good chance this will be admitted. KC told LE that she was looking in bars for information regarding her daughter's whereabouts. To me, this makes pictures of her doing just that very relevant. The jury can decide if she appears to be looking for her missing child.

You left out quite a bit of evidence that shows consciousness of guilt on KC's part. I think this will play an important part in her trial. I'd rather compare KC's trial to SP than to Cindy S.

 

[MissJames]

I do think AL was holding KC back. She was having a beautiful life. Those 31 days were probably the best days of KC's life.

I think KC WAS hoping she was going to end up being Mrs. L. She didn't say she woundn't ever move to NY. KC told Iassen she would not move to NY unless she was married. Then she raved on and on about love being worth anything...

KC told Tony she had to steal Amy's money for backup. (Not exactly what she told LE.)

In the meantime dreams of being in the music industry alongside her man and really planning events were dancing through KC's brain.

KC was just waiting for something to happen to point her in the direction to go. Tony might get a job offer and bend down on one knee to persuade KC to come with him. Or a news announcement of a child's body being found could force her to run.

I've also wondered if the guy in California told KC not to come,or told her to come later.He was military and couldn't just accomidate her timing. He may have had a girlfriend.Who knows.
This case has so many twists and turns it couldn't be written as one book.It would take volumes 1-10 to fit it all in.

 

[MissJames]

Regarding the text I bolded:
I think there's a good chance this will be admitted. KC told LE that she was looking in bars for information regarding her daughter's whereabouts. To me, this makes pictures of her doing just that very relevant. The jury can decide if she appears to be looking for her missing child.

You left out quite a bit of evidence that shows consciousness of guilt on KC's part. I think this will play an important part in her trial. I'd rather compare KC's trial to SP than to Cindy S.

I also believe it will be admitted.In the c Sommers case her husband died and she did show grief ,at times .
In KC's case her 2 year old child was supposedly MISSING. Her actions were abnormal for a parent of a missing child.She acted as though everything was normal and she lied ,lied,lied.Very different from Cynthia Sommers.
While all losses are painful and filled with grieving,losing your child is pretty much debilitating,at least for awhile.

 

[MissJames]

Interesting article and I agree that there must be other evidence besides the partying. Along with what you listed, I can think of 3 other things right offhand that are very bad for the defense:

1. Not reporting child missing.. ever. CA is the one who reported her missing.
2. Smell of death in car (witnessed by the tow yard company and GA as well as showing up in testing)
3. Cadaver Dogs hitting on car and in yard

In the Sommers case there was only the partying evidence so that without it the case fell.. in this case there is much more and the partying is only added to the rest. I just don't think KC partying is the most important evidence the state and the case is still looking bad for the defense even if the partying is removed. JMO, of course.

BBM
OT,but to set the record straight....There was evidence of poisoning in the tox tests during C Sommers husband's autopsy,so there was other evidence.The partying evidence came in after the defense opened the door by having Cynthia's mother testify that she saw her daughter grieving and non-functional.That allowed the state to bring in the partying info,which sunk Cynthia and she was found guilty.
After her sentencing it came out that there was a lab error and there was no poisoning of her husband.The conviction was overturned based on that new info and Cynthia was released.

 

[Brini]

BBM
IMO, she was so comfortable with her lies, her stealing, her surroundings and friends in Orlando it was that much easier for her to get away with stuff than if she took off.

She may have wanted to BOLT but financially could not, she was living off of stolen money from those closest to her and no one did anything substantial to stop her from doing it over and over.

IMO Casey knew her time of carefree living was limited. She knew she had until Caylee's 3rd birthday in August to avoid her family and keep up the stories about Caylee being with the Nanny and her being away with work blah blah blah. It all worked in her favor for a time and would have continued to work were it not for the events that were set in motion once the car was towed.

I also think she wasn't comfortable out of her small activity zone.

She didn't even take short trips, or go out of town, for the day.

It was the A's home, the bf du jour's home, the clubs and the Target. That's it.

 

[Brini]

Regarding the text I bolded:
I think there's a good chance this will be admitted. KC told LE that she was looking in bars for information regarding her daughter's whereabouts. To me, this makes pictures of her doing just that very relevant. The jury can decide if she appears to be looking for her missing child.

You left out quite a bit of evidence that shows consciousness of guilt on KC's part. I think this will play an important part in her trial. I'd rather compare KC's trial to SP than to Cindy S.

Agree! KC's big explanation of the Hot Body contests, et al, was that she was looking for Caylee, at the bars.

I know if I was looking for a two-year old, I'd check out all the adult hot spots. ;-)

 

[Brini]

While, I personally believe Casey is likely guilty, I do think it's important to separate out information that is not germaine to guilt from that which is. Specifically, I want to addresss Casey's partying/hot body contest behavior/boyfriends. I do not believe that these activities bear any relation to her guilt or innocence. As evidence of this, I submit this link to a case in which a young woman was wrongly convicted of murdering her husband in a great part due to her partying behavior in the wake of his death and also due to her inquiries regarding insurance and money. Cindy Sommers actually participated in a thong competition at a nightclub. She also slept with quite a number of men shortly after her husband's death who were all brought forth in the trial.

The prosecusion held that Cindys Sommers' husband had been poisoned by her with arsenic and showed test results depicting arsenic in his kidneys and liver. A defense expert testified that there should have been arsenic all over the husband's body, not just in the liver or kidneys as the prosecutions tests revealed and the fact that there was no evidence to indicate that Cindy Sommers had ever bought arsenic or been in contact with it and there was no one who knew her to have an unhappy marriage or any complaints about her husband.

I think the article below is very informative and shows how this kind of information can give a false impression about the truth of a situation in court.

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/25/945575.aspx

The conviction was reversed after if was discovered that the original prosecutory lab tests were completely incorrect and corrupted and on re-test that none of the samples taken from the husbands body contained any traces of arsenic whatsoever.

I suspect that the defense will successfully avoid the boyfriend/hot body contest/partying information from being presented at Casey's trial because Andrea Lyon won't allow that to be entered into evidence. Without all of that, we are left with:

Lab tests of trunk of car (still questionable after Linda Baden gets done with them)
Casey's squirrel info to AH and other text messages
Caylee's body and autopsy and related evidence
Casey's lies
Video of Casey at Blockbuster with TL on the evening of the day Caylee supposedly died looking fine.
TL's testimony about Casey's nightmares.
Internet searches on the Anthony home computer - no proof they were done by Casey
Financial crimes

What else is left in the way of evidence for the trial and does it really prove Casey is guilty?

Honey, you are leaving out a lot of great evidence.

I think the total sum of the parts will MORE than convince any jury with two firing neurons, or more.

 

[spyhouston]

BBM
IMO, she was so comfortable with her lies, her stealing, her surroundings and friends in Orlando it was that much easier for her to get away with stuff than if she took off.

She may have wanted to BOLT but financially could not, she was living off of stolen money from those closest to her and no one did anything substantial to stop her from doing it over and over.

IMO Casey knew her time of carefree living was limited. She knew she had until Caylee's 3rd birthday in August to avoid her family and keep up the stories about Caylee being with the Nanny and her being away with work blah blah blah. It all worked in her favor for a time and would have continued to work were it not for the events that were set in motion once the car was towed.

And, even after she was in jail while Caylee was still missing, I believe it was in a jailhouse visit with either CA/GA or with LA, KC makes reference to "....WHEN this goes to trial..." not "IF". Now how could she think this would go to trial if Caylee could have been found alive. Hmmm.

 

[Brini]

Just catching up with reading - in relation to KCs plans - I also think she planned to take off. I believe that a large part of her motive was to hurt CA, after the huge row they had the night before. And so she thought if she took off, she would not only be hurting CA by killing her granddaughter, she could also arrange things so that CA/GA were blamed for the death. I just don't understand why she hung around.

She doesn't know how to plan.

She had a very limited area of activity. The As house, to the bf's place, to the clubs.

Her PING maps were very enlightening re: this.

She really couldn't sit down and plan out how to get the money, change her appearance, where to go, and how to get a job that would not attract attention.

So.. she didn't.

 

[MAMABEAR]

Well, it's one thang to go "party" when your ole man kicks the bucket but git real---who goes partying when your kid is kidnapped?

 

[Tuffy]

Regarding the text I bolded:
I think there's a good chance this will be admitted. KC told LE that she was looking in bars for information regarding her daughter's whereabouts. To me, this makes pictures of her doing just that very relevant. The jury can decide if she appears to be looking for her missing child.

You left out quite a bit of evidence that shows consciousness of guilt on KC's part. I think this will play an important part in her trial. I'd rather compare KC's trial to SP than to Cindy S.

I think the judge would have to give a really good reason for not allowing the state to present evidence of KC's actions during those 31 days. KC's original statements to investigators brings her behavior into question. She tells them initially that she didn't contact the police because she was conducting her own investigation.

 

[Brini]

Here is just one more thing that doesn't make sense to me. Why didn't she bolt during those 31 days? Were her ties to CA so great that she was afraid to leave? She obviously didn't think she would end up with ALz, thinking he might return to NY. Although she talked of independence with her friends, she obviously couldn't make the break. It's like she was still 12 years old.

You summed it up in your last sentence. She cannot plan like an adult.

 

[Brini]

That seemed so weird to me. Why did she turn her bedroom into a bizarre shrine to Caylee? There was even sonogram pictures on the wall, right? Cindy implied that it had always been like that. I just found that really odd.

Because CA was trying to convince the world that KC loved her child so much, she created a shrine to her.

 

[Brini]

It couldn't have been ... remember Casey's friend telling the story of how they went for a walk down the street and CA's dog pooped in a neighbor's lawn and Casey denied it and wouldn't pick it up even though she was holding the leashed dog? LOL!

Regarding the lime - we have two large dogs and just pick up their droppings in our back lawn regularly. Have never had a need to apply anything to mask an odor because there isn't any. With their two tiny pups there can't be much poop volume and I can't see any need for them to use lime to mask pup poop odor - especially in the front lawn.

A scooper and a bag.

 

[Brini]

ITA with all of the above! Though I hadn't paid too much attention to the knot in the shirt, I do know what you mean! It bothered me to no end that she even dared to put it on in the first place! It made me mad every time I saw her in it! I'd also like to add that, as a juror, the first audio tape of the phone call from jail when she says "They just want to get Caylee back!" but she says it as though it was a bad thing speaks volumes about where her priorities were! JMO of course!

Yep!

31 days, plus begging CA for "just one more day."
Lying to LE.
Decmp in the trunk.

That's all I'd need.

 

[Brini]

That she was wearing the shirt, the whole charade of what she and her parents were saying was an offense to society in general. It made my blood boil. And as for the phone call, the worst thing of all, and the whole phone call was pretty damning, but when Christina was crying about Caylee, and Casey said "oh well", in this snarky sarcastic way, I knew right that second she was guilty and I hope the jurors hear it too. I didn't catch it at first but as I listened again I heard it. This phone call is where we saw the REAL Casey Anthony.

For me, the phone call boiled down to KC blowing off discussing Caylee, but demanding TonE's number.

She's in jail. She claims her kid has been kidnapped. But, not ONCE does she ask if there has been news of Caylee.

 

[Brini]

Young people want to leave home and begin their own lives beginning at 17 and 18 (mostly earlier but our society likes people to finish high school). Here is KC "incapable" of doing just that but hanging with people who did manage to break away from home. TL, the boyfriend at the time had plans and aspirations. KC's "plan" was always to glom onto someone (like him) to make a break from her parents. I sure don't understand why KC wasn't better at this than she was! She could have "glommed" onto someone with some $$ but instead she hung with tattoo artists and disc jockeys. (Well..At LEAST they supported themselves, however...and she probably admired that).

I guess my random thought is about KC wanting to leave home --like all young people want to do--but Cindy did what she could to thwart the break. It was Cindy's job to prepare KC for adulthood. She did a miserable job!

And, it was KC's job to do it, anyway. A lot of us were not prepared, by parents, for adulthood.

She had a job. She walked off it.

She prolly wasn't interesting enough to attract a moneyed man-- disk jockeys were more her level.

And, she was too pushy to keep any of them. She started the, "I love you's" after about a week.

 

[Brini]

Sorry this will show up in the middle of a discussion about something else, and not that it is important, but this is a random thought that came to me after Caylee's body was found. I am remembering that KC contacted the military friend in California and seemed like she planned to go see him to tell him something very important. She asked Cindy for one more day. Perhaps she thought she could get on the run within that "one more day." What if she went to the west coast, told the fellow that she left CA / GA adopt Caylee, then when she couldn't get to talk to Caylee, point the blame for Caylee being missing on Cindy...low and behold...Caylee's remains are found close to the Anthony residence.
I know that's kind of a whacked out idea, but with this family, who knows!

I think she might have thought about it. But, I don't think KC could even get out of town. She only ever drove to about three places.

And, CA would've been the WORST place to come. We've ALL heard, out here.

She wouldn't even have made it off the plane.

 

[Brini]

GESTALT THEORY: The whole is equal to MORE than the sum of the parts.

JB can pick at pieces of the evidence all he wants.

The WHOLE picture is extremely damning.

 

[Brini]

Yes!! Especially the autopsy report since she has a medical background.

Besides, they said they DIDN'T see it. You know those two-- that means they DID.

Surprised the whole crew aren't tripping over their noses. Pinoccio has NOTHING on them.