Ransom Note and Calls to the Boss

[SherlockHomey]

With the lie coming out about AY was NOT EB's brother but actually her ex husband, and probably more coming out that we don't know, I wonder if the boss was trying to help AB get on his feet and leave her.

EB caught wind of it and was highly PO'ed because he was all she had that supported her at this time (she alienated all her family). Therefore the ransom note that included boss's kid, and burning of his car, then she took it out on Z to "just show him" who was boss.

We all know he was passive to her demands and his visa ran out, so she had the upper hand and needed her and she knew it.

 

[SherlockHomey]

I believe - see below - all is merely specualtion.

Three passports in the bosses' Tahoe. AB, ZB, and EB's. He was leaving her to go back to Australia and taking her passport with him so she couldn't track him down? The landlord was helping him. He had gotten tired of the abuse, his visa had expired, his fake marriage was falling apart. After all, he wasn't legally married. He knew this after AY told him.

EB is a vindictive cruel person. What better way to get him back. I doubt he will ever get back to Australia now.

Purely speculation to throw other theories out there.....

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Just a straight-forward question - how do we know (via verified sources) that the marriage was falling apart?

If there is a verified source for this supposition, perhaps a thread on the topic can be started.

 

[tlcya]

or you could just throw an I think at the beginning and an IMO at the end making it clear you are speculating - homey

 

[april_showers]

Just a straight-forward question - how do we know (via verified sources) that the marriage was falling apart?

If there is a verified source for this supposition, perhaps a thread on the topic can be started.

Yeah - its hard to tell for sure. There's those "evicted for fighting" reports from '09, for instance, [http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/14/21/neighbors-wonder-if-zahra-kept-attic-ar-458767/] but who knows... I'm sure we all know of someone who lives with that kind of drama for years!

I think this is fair speculation though, when you look at the pieces. Verified accounts of their fighting... Zahra pulled out of school for some reason... confirmed money troubles...

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Yeah - its hard to tell for sure. There's those "evicted for fighting" reports from '09, for instance, [http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/14/21/neighbors-wonder-if-zahra-kept-attic-ar-458767/] but who knows... I'm sure we all know of someone who lives with that kind of drama for years!

I think this is fair speculation though, when you look at the pieces. Verified accounts of their fighting... Zahra pulled out of school for some reason... confirmed money troubles...

Speculation is fair enough, as long as it is only opinion. I was just asking if we had verified reports. Since I don't see all the FB posts and such that a lot of folks on here see, I just wondered if the discussion of their marriage troubles came from there.

(It really was a straight forward question, and not one of those TV cop questions where I already know the answer and was trying to ham-fistedly provoke someone to confess to anything.)

However, my secondary concern was that I don't think marriage troubles should take up too much discussion in the ransom note thread. Thus, if people have verified sources that can be gathered, and find the question compelling, I would suggest that a thread be started.

 

[SherlockHomey]

or you could just throw an I think at the beginning and an IMO at the end making it clear you are speculating - homey

Thank you tlcox. I thought that's what the MOO was for but I will edit my post.

Of course, I do not know that their marriage was falling apart. I can only speculate because there are so many unknowns (to the GP).

I am thinking.

1) Financial issues (per the charges on county LE sites)
2) Abuse (per family members interviewed MSM)
3) Information disclosed that AY was an ex husband and not a brother as EB and AY had said (per MSM sources)
4) Issue of the legality of the marriage (per MSM)
5) Alienation of family (no support system per MSM)
6) Immigration issues

But all this is moot since they didn't have a marriage anyway. :angel:

Please mods if this needs to be moved or I need to shut my mouth, just let me down gently and I will fall on occam's razor.

ETA: I do not believe AB is completely innocent. I'm only playing devil's advocate and trying to think out of the box.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Thank you tlcox. I thought that's what the MOO was for but I will edit my post.

Of course, I do not know that their marriage was falling apart. I can only speculate because there are so many unknowns (to the GP).

I am thinking.

1) Financial issues (per the charges on county LE sites)
2) Abuse (per family members interviewed MSM)
3) Information disclosed that AY was an ex husband and not a brother as EB and AY had said (per MSM sources)
4) Issue of the legality of the marriage (per MSM)
5) Alienation of family (no support system per MSM)

But all this is moot since they didn't have a marriage anyway. :angel:

Please mods if this needs to be moved or I need to shut my mouth, just let me down gently and I will fall on occam's razor.

ETA: I do not believe AB is completely innocent. I'm only playing devil's advocate and trying to think out of the box.

BBM

Ritual suicide is never required here.

 

[april_showers]

Purchasing a new mattress also makes me wonder if it was to hide Zahra's death from him. No one else would have gone in Zahra's room but him. <----snipped from harmony2's post above.

YES! Why replace the mattress? For whose eyes is that mattress? If AB and EB were both involved together, who was the mattress meant to fool? It appears that

1) the marriage wasn't legal
2) AB and Z may not have been here legally at this point.

So had they both been involved, it would have been far easier to simpy explain Zahra's absence as her returning to OZ to stay with her mother or grandmother. For that matter, the neighbors had never even seen her at this home and didn't know she existed. So what was the benefit in replacing the mattress with another one that would not be slept in?

ETA this is also part of what leads me to believe it is possible that EB was responsible alone for the ransom note.

I finding myself agreeing more and more and more with this concept. FWIW - I don't see any of this as a ploy to fool law enforcement. A hastily written ransom note, that EB copped to pretty much immediately? I think this was meant for either AB or his boss - not the police.

 

[SherlockHomey]

BBM

Ritual suicide is never required here.

TY! :blushing:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It's interesting to me that the house belonged to the boss. The ransom note was addressed to the boss. The vehicle on which the ransom note was attached belonged to the boss, and was driven by AB. And sometime immediately before or after each 911 call was made, AB called his boss.

I also find it interesting that in AB's 911 call, he all but hammers the "boss" info into the 911 operators head:

"The police were out here last night. They found a ransom note for my bosses daughter&#8230; um&#8230;"

" somebody had poured gas in my company vehicle I drive to work. "

" They left a ransom note on my company vehicle to my boss saying they had his daughter and his son was next."

" Like I said it was it was all addressed to him and it was all taken out on him and.. I guess.. they thought he lived in this house..."

" we had an officer out here last night and he ran through who he thought it may have been like an ex-employee or something.."

I guess it could be argued that it's completely logical for all of this "boss" stuff to appear to be attached to AB, and that it's only logical for AB to keep talking about his boss and his "company vehicle" to the point of redundancy. But in my mind, all I see are big, fat, screaming red flags.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

It's interesting to me that the house belonged to the boss. The ransom note was addressed to the boss. The vehicle on which the ransom note was attached belonged to the boss, and was driven by AB. And sometime immediately before or after each 911 call was made, AB called his boss.

I also find it interesting that in AB's 911 call, he all but hammers the "boss" info into the 911 operators head:

"The police were out here last night. They found a ransom note for my bosses daughter… um…"

" somebody had poured gas in my company vehicle I drive to work. "

" They left a ransom note on my company vehicle to my boss saying they had his daughter and his son was next."

" Like I said it was it was all addressed to him and it was all taken out on him and.. I guess.. they thought he lived in this house..."

" we had an officer out here last night and he ran through who he thought it may have been like an ex-employee or something.."

I guess it could be argued that it's completely logical for all of this "boss" stuff to appear to be attached to AB, and that it's only logical for AB to keep talking about his boss and his "company vehicle" to the point of redundancy. But in my mind, all I see are big, fat, screaming red flags.

JMO

I agree...although the whole thing was set up around the boss so it only stood to reason that he'd be mentioned often. if AB truly didn't know what was going on, it makes sense to me that he'd call the boss first. Almost like he needed approval to involve him in this thing. He called him early in the morning before LE showed up too after the ransom note was found by the FD. Perhaps he thought the boss might be in to something shady and wanted to give him a heads up.

Both of his bosses had good things to say about him in the press in the early days and didn't think he could be involved. I wonder if they still feel this way?

MOO

 

[panthera]

I agree...although the whole thing was set up around the boss so it only stood to reason that he'd be mentioned often. if AB truly didn't know what was going on, it makes sense to me that he'd call the boss first. Almost like he needed approval to involve him in this thing. He called him early in the morning before LE showed up too after the ransom note was found by the FD. Perhaps he thought the boss might be in to something shady and wanted to give him a heads up.

Both of his bosses had good things to say about him in the press in the early days and didn't think he could be involved. I wonder if they still feel this way?

MOO

BBM

He lost his job, didn't he? :waitasec: MOO

 

[tlcya]

I am assuming that there wasn't much choice after the check charges were filed. Even if the boss was still sympathetic, or felt he was not involved, he can't exactly keep hiim on after the charges I would think. Plus, public opinoin on AB right now is not exactly confident that he is uninvolved. This guy serves the public. They pay the bills.

:waitasec: Panthera? Did you just help take the thread off topic? lol

ETA Have a great holiday

 

[Kamille]

And if he had immigration issues, no work visa and was illegally employed...just saying.

MOO

 

[Clue Hopper]

I think AB called the boss and mentions the boss so much because the boss is now the one he trusts. He no longer trusts what EB says or does. I think the boss is now the only person he trusts. Like I said before I think the boss was helping him with his expired work visa too. Maybe even differently then expected. AB might have been working on going back to Oz with Z. That might be why they found the passports in the Camry. I also think that is why the note was aimed at the boss from EB. I think EB used the company vehicle anytime she wanted to. Even if she was told she couldn't. JMO

If AB was leaving, the boss was helping him to be able to do that, I could see rage in EB. Everything she had done, everything she had said is now coming out. In her eyes she see's AB as ungrateful and heartless. To up and leave her when she gave up all her family and friends for him. The uncaring SOB was not going to get away with it. If it wasn't for Z things would be different. So she took away the one thing he loved more than her Z. JMO

This example is a far lesser extreme but still crazy in my eyes. I knew a woman that had a live in bf for about 2 yrs. All of the sudden she decided she didn't want to be with him anymore. She would do little things like pour bleach on his clothes in the washer. Throw away his socks and underwear things like that. One day when he was arguing with her about all of it, she told him to get out. So he did. Three weeks later he was dating another woman. This woman got so angry she put a dead fish under the front seat of his car. When asked why she did it? She said he isn't supposed to be happy I am.

 

[agathawannabe]

I finding myself agreeing more and more and more with this concept. FWIW - I don't see any of this as a ploy to fool law enforcement. A hastily written ransom note, that EB copped to pretty much immediately? I think this was meant for either AB or his boss - not the police.

BBM I agree with this.

Speculation:

I think AB was kept in the dark. I think the ransom note was meant to fool AB and his boss.

I think EB had killed Zahra and called on her "posse" [*] to help her cover up and clean up. Assuming the posse story is true, why wouldn't EB contact the same posse person(s) who had served as *enforcers* on her drug deals - to help her cover up a (accidental or otherwise) killing? After all, if her posse didn't go along willingly with her request for help - she could threaten to expose their secrets (other illegal deeds).

I think EB (not realizing her manipulation skills were beginning to wear thin with AB) actually believed AB would heed the "no cops" message on the ransom note and attempt to resolve the "kidnapping" without police involvement. I can picture AB calling his boss first because EB was probably standing there suggesting that he pay attention to the "no cops" written on the note. But then the Boss told AB to do the sensible thing and call police. Thus, EB later writes in her jailhouse letter: "I never thought it would be this way."


[*] Footnotes:

"Everybody in this family is so afraid of Elisa Baker. She`s said to have gone after people who owed her drug money with a posse and a gun."
( from JVM transcript: http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/21/ijvm.01.html )

Listen to the very end of BB's radio interview: http://www.wbt.com/EI/G/Flash/RTEMp3Player.swf?File=http://media.wbt.com/Tara Servatius Audio/1.mp3

 

[dar107]

BBM I agree with this.

Speculation:

I think AB was kept in the dark. I think the ransom note was meant to fool AB and his boss.

I think EB had killed Zahra and called on her "posse" [*] to help her cover up and clean up. Assuming the posse story is true, why wouldn't EB contact the same posse person(s) who had served as *enforcers* on her drug deals - to help her cover up a (accidental or otherwise) killing? After all, if her posse didn't go along willingly with her request for help - she could threaten to expose their secrets (other illegal deeds).

I think EB (not realizing her manipulation skills were beginning to wear thin with AB) actually believed AB would heed the "no cops" message on the ransom note and attempt to resolve the "kidnapping" without police involvement. I can picture AB calling his boss first because EB was probably standing there suggesting that he pay attention to the "no cops" written on the note. But then the Boss told AB to do the sensible thing and call police. Thus, EB later writes in her jailhouse letter: "I never thought it would be this way."


[*] Footnotes:

"Everybody in this family is so afraid of Elisa Baker. She`s said to have gone after people who owed her drug money with a posse and a gun."
( from JVM transcript: http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/21/ijvm.01.html )

Listen to the very end of BB's radio interview: http://www.wbt.com/EI/G/Flash/RTEMp3Player.swf?File=http://media.wbt.com/Tara Servatius Audio/1.mp3

But wasn't it the FD that found the ransom note first? :waitasec:

 

[tlcya]

It's interesting to me that the house belonged to the boss. The ransom note was addressed to the boss. The vehicle on which the ransom note was attached belonged to the boss, and was driven by AB. And sometime immediately before or after each 911 call was made, AB called his boss.

I also find it interesting that in AB's 911 call, he all but hammers the "boss" info into the 911 operators head:

"The police were out here last night. They found a ransom note for my bosses daughter&#8230; um&#8230;"

" somebody had poured gas in my company vehicle I drive to work. "

" They left a ransom note on my company vehicle to my boss saying they had his daughter and his son was next."

" Like I said it was it was all addressed to him and it was all taken out on him and.. I guess.. they thought he lived in this house..."

" we had an officer out here last night and he ran through who he thought it may have been like an ex-employee or something.."

I guess it could be argued that it's completely logical for all of this "boss" stuff to appear to be attached to AB, and that it's only logical for AB to keep talking about his boss and his "company vehicle" to the point of redundancy. But in my mind, all I see are big, fat, screaming red flags.

JMO

Redundant only if AB is in on the plot. If he genuinely believes the hoax and feels his daughter is kidnapped in a case of tragic msitaken identity, well then to me makes total sense he tell them all about the boss connection and the fire/ransom note call becasuse if he isn't in on it, he believes the boss is the key.

 

[lauriej]

it's my opinion that AB was in on the ransom note. if not, and he was completely bewildered by it,once MC's daughter had been accounted for (or even prior to that) he should have raced into the house to make sure that HIS daughter was accounted for.

the narrative of the search warrant also refers to it,twice,as "a small grass fire". if they didn't want LE snooping around it sounds like it may have been a fire they could have extinguished themselves.

they set the fire to get the fire dept. and LE to come to the house, to find the note,and set the whole "missing/kidnapped" Z in motion. found "missing" by LE, and not by them.

except LE didn't play along, so they were stuck having to carry on with the missing story and 911 call later that day, because LE had taken the note.

they couldn't very well abort the plan and try it again some other day, the wanted her to have gone missing between 2:30-5:30 ---plan B---EB tells AB to go to work, so that when he gets home , they can use that as their "new time" for Z to be missing.

problem---how to explain to LE that they hadn't yet seen Z or checked in on her and it's 2 p.m.? stomach virus/broody/stays in her room all the time/puberty etc. etc.

if AB had no knowledge of the note, and the fact that she was already 'missing', his 911 call would not have sounded at all as it did. IMO.