Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[tsitra01]

Most look at Cosby as he was portrayed on his TV sitcom but he was never that fatherly type. He could be very rude. As far as the recent allegations , they have been around for years but being a celebrity he was able to blow them away. That many woman leads me to believe where there's smoke there's FIRE.

 

[Redbird]

Rape is an act that takes place in isolation so that one person's word against another is all we have. We can only use our common sense, intuition, and life experience to decide who is telling the truth. A rapist is not going to rape a woman in front of others and if DNA is left, he and his lawyer only have to say we/they had sex but it was consensual. So I have come to the conclusion that people who always believe the accused in the face of credible testimony by the victims basically don't believe in rape. Or they don't care. It is a waste of time to argue against their denial. They will never admit a misoganist bias against women, but that's what it is. I do feel by the responses this scandal is getting that people as a whole are more willing to listen to women's voices, but then maybe it's just because there are so many of them.

 

[thistle]

I read the article in today's WaPo- -http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/bill-cosbys-legacy-recast-accusers-speak-in-detail-about-sexual-assault-allegations/2014/11/22/d7074938-718e-11e4-8808-afaa1e3a33ef_story.html - long & detailed. Setting aside the arguments about whether he will ever go to trial for these allegations (I don't think he will), I thought about how he might be handling it. I hope, for his sake, that he owns up to his past actions (again, I don't think he will). He is a father of 4 daughters, right, how can he reconcile his actions,with how he would want his daughters to live? At this point, the only prison for Bill Cosby will be his own mind, if he allows it.

 

[screecher]

snipped

...
how can he reconcile his actions,with how he would want his daughters to live?....

He can't.

 

[kimi_SFC]

I read the article in today's WaPo- http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...074938-718e-11e4-8808-afaa1e3a33ef_story.html - long & detailed. Setting aside the arguments about whether he will ever go to trial for these allegations (I don't think he will), I thought about how he might be handling it. I hope, for his sake, that he owns up to his past actions (again, I don't think he will). He is a father of 4 daughters, right, how can he reconcile his actions,with how he would want his daughters to live? At this point, the only prison for Bill Cosby will be his own mind, if he allows it.

Reposted to bring forward the link

:tyou:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I have come to believe, based on nothing but my own gut feeling, that he sees nothing wrong with what he did. He might realize that it is wrong by society's standards, which is why his lawyers keep trying to do damage control with their statements about absurd allegations (I have yet to see a flat-out "I [or he] didn't do it"), but in his own mind he feels entitled to do whatever he wants to do.

The fact that he has daughters, and his victims are someone else's daughters, never even enters his consciousness as a point of comparison.

JMO as I said based on nothing but my own opinion.

I find it very telling that as far as I am aware, there has never been an "I [or he] didn't do it" statement.

Bill Clinton has been mentioned on this thread. How well I remember him saying, "I did not have sex with that woman."

He and I are from the same region of the country, where "having sex" = intercourse. So in his mind he could, and did, make that denial truthfully.

(In case this isn't obvious, I am not defending Bill Clinton, but making comparisons.)

Bill Cosby has never, again as far as I am aware, made any statements that he didn't do it.

Again, I find this very telling.

 

[Ausgirl]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...take-30-years-for-people-to-believe-my-story/

What I don't get with this Bowman woman is: if she was so traumatised by all the multiple times Bill Cosby raped her -- why the heck did she keep going back?

She reminds me of that woman who claims Rolf raped her as a teenager - but then admits she kept sleeping with him until she was *29 years old* and he dumped her for another woman. She never said boo until after Rolf moved on to another affair, and refused her request for money.

I was very vocal over on the Rolf Harris thread about the paucity of not just evidence -- but also logic, of any kind, in some of those claims. And I stand by my observations (not *opinions*, observations) that the majority of 'victims' had stories with holes so wide you could drive a truck through them. The verdict of guilty doesn't change that observation one bit. Even if he IS guilty of molesting someone, somewhere, it doesn't mean I am compelled to look at these extremely flawed claims and automatically assume guilt in *those* instances. I am 100% behind rapists being held accountable, but I also know baloney when I smell it.

Cosbymay well and truly be a criminal. But I am not about to see the number "14" and automatically buy into the idea that more claims means more guilt. Each claim ought to be looked at on its merit.

And I reckon if media outlets worldwide were banned from paying 10's and 100's of thousands of dollars for 'shocking' tell all interviews, the number of complaints against celebrities would rapidly dwindle, and those complainants left would make a LOT more sense than most of 'em do.

 

[Ausgirl]

Also, regarding his silence -- this is actually the *smart* thing to do, even for innocent people, when accused of a felony crime. It might not seem so, as people will take it a sign of guilt - but it's actually the best thing he can do to protect himself, legally. I can't see the sense in making this out to be "proof" of guilt. It's just common sense, when accused of something so heinous which may then end up in some kind of legal proceedings.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Interesting commentary on how the media has changed and Bill Cosby hasn't:

Quote: Watch it as a snapshot of someone who does not know the media world has changed and thinks his powerful publicist can make a phone call to a gatekeeper (in this case, Associated Press) and keep a story away from the public.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/enterta...cy-gatekeepers-media-buzz-20141123-story.html

 

[IzzyBlanche]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...take-30-years-for-people-to-believe-my-story/

What I don't get with this Bowman woman is: if she was so traumatised by all the multiple times Bill Cosby raped her -- why the heck did she keep going back?

Snipped for focus: if you read that article and don't get why she kept going back, you never will. IMO of course. Victimizers choose their victims carefully.

I don't know anything about Australian media, but here in the USA, our respected media outlets like the Washington Post
--the paper that broke the Watergate scandal that took down our President? Look it up if you are too young to remember--do not pay for interviews. Fair dinkum.

 

[Ausgirl]

Victimizers choose their victims carefully.

^ This applies equally to scammers, as it does to rapists.

While some papers don't pay, many others do - and they pay very well. Not to mention TV shows, book deals, even movie deals.. I bet that's not the only interview she's given or will give in times to come.

I am not a stupid person - no need to imply it to make your point there -- and I am a rape survivor. That woman chose to keep getting in the limos time after time, kept going back.. why? IF her allegations are true, it makes little sense. If they're not, it makes a pile more sense.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

^ This applies equally to scammers, as it does to rapists.

While some papers don't pay, many others do - and they pay very well. Not to mention TV shows, book deals, even movie deals.. I bet that's not the only interview she's given or will give in times to come.

I am not a stupid person - no need to imply it to make your point there -- and I am a rape survivor too. That woman chose to keep getting in the limos time after time, kept going back.. why? IF her allegations are true, it makes little sense. If they're not, it makes a pile more sense.

I apologize if my post made you feel like I was saying you are stupid. That is not what I meant. It seems to me that there are people who understand why the victim kept going back around, and people who do not. Those in the latter category, at least as I've seen on this thread, are incapable of coming around to the other viewpoint. That's what I meant.

As for the rest, please show me one, just one example in the history of humankind, where a woman profited from TV shows, a book deal, or a movie deal, based on a claim of rape later proven to be false.

I'm not talking about anyone who briefly profited but was then exposed as a fraud, i.e. Tawana Brawley or the Duke lacrosse team accuser.

I mean one woman, just one, who falsely claimed rape and made a huge profit that would inspire other women to try to do the same.

 

[wfgodot]

It's well-known and utterly sad that many women return to their abusers.

By no means does it indicate that they are lying when they find the strength to speak truth to power.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It seems to me if I were going to try to scam someone and was choosing my victim carefully, it would be someone who already had a somewhat tarnished image

Not America's dad, universally considered a great guy.

 

[Ausgirl]

It's well-known and utterly sad that many women return to their abusers.

By no means does it indicate that they are lying when they find the strength to speak truth to power.

This is perfectly true. It's also true that many women lie about being raped by celebrities. By no means does it indicate they're telling the truth when they jump on the gravy train and make false allegations.

The spin can go both ways, is my point here. Presumption of innocence isn't the popular choice, but it's a valid one.

Ms Bowman wasn't under Cosby's control. She may have done all she could to put herself there in order to advance her career, but there's no reason she could not choose to walk away. Just as she chose to keep getting in the limo.

I've sat in on many rape survivor's groups. I've never heard of a rape victim wanting to have MORE time alone with her rapist.

**eta: ^ Here I refer to adults, not in DV situations. Just to be clear. I have heard people raped as children and people victimised with DV doing so. Never adult women in any other circumstances.

 

[Ausgirl]

It seems to me if I were going to try to scam someone and was choosing my victim carefully, it would be someone who already had a somewhat tarnished image

Not America's dad, universally considered a great guy.

If I was that type of person, I'd pick the man with the most reputation to lose, and hope he opts for a juicy settlement rather than being dragged through court, which is guaranteed to lose him a lot of work, even if he's innocent.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This is perfectly true. It's also true that many women lie about being raped by celebrities. By no means does it indicate they're telling the truth when they jump on the gravy train and make false allegations.

The spin can go both ways, is my point here. Presumption of innocence isn't the popular choice, but it's a valid one.

Ms Bowman wasn't under Cosby's control. She may have done all she could to put herself there in order to advance her career, but there's no reason she could not choose to walk away. Just as she chose to keep getting in the limo.

I've sat in on many rape survivor's groups. I've never heard of a rape victim wanting to have MORE time alone with her rapist.

BBM for focus. Specific examples, please. I'm particularly interested in any that reaped the gravy train, so to speak.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

If I was that type of person, I'd pick the man with the most reputation to lose, and hope he opts for a juicy settlement rather than being dragged through court, which is guaranteed to lose him a lot of work, even if he's innocent.

And that approach has borne fruit against...who?

 

[wfgodot]

And why would women "choose" to pick on poor ol' inviolable, beyond-reproach, Cliff Huxtable....er, albeit previously inviolable Bill Cosby, whose halo slipped a bit, n'est-ce pas, when he settled a civil case and for all practical purposes thus admitted its truth?

Might there be some who are jumping the bandwagon, so to speak? Why, yes.

But it only takes one truth and, in my opinion, we've heard many.

If we're going to allow platitudes, allow me this one: were I not guilty of sexual assault, nothing could make me admit, no matter the wording and whatever the venue, that I were. Sexual assault must never be thought of as an inconvenient truth. Nothing can make it go away.

 

[Ausgirl]

And why would women "choose" to pick on poor ol' inviolable, beyond-reproach, Cliff Huxtable....er, albeit previously inviolable Bill Cosby, whose halo slipped a bit, n'est-ce pas, when he settled a civil case and for all practical purposes thus admitted its truth?

Might there be some who are jumping the bandwagon, so to speak? Why, yes.

But it only takes one truth and, in my opinion, we've heard many.

If we're going to allow platitudes, allow me this one: were I not guilty of sexual assault, nothing could make me admit, no matter the wording and whatever the venue, that I were. Sexual assault must never be thought of as an inconvenient truth. Nothing can make it go away.

Thing is, celebrities who are innocent can suffer an almost complete severance from their former good reputation, and massive loss of contracts and other aspects of their livelihoods, *even when 100% vindicated* by a court, or an admission of lying by their accuser. This is highly visible in the Operation Yewtree cases where men have been found innocent of all charges, but still suffer from the negative publicity.

I can see why some might find it better all round to make a payout so the case goes away quickly and quietly, innocent or not.

I am NOT some great defender of rapists. This isn't what I am. I just don't like seeing men be victimised, any more than I enjoy seeing women be so.

eta: Just to add, re "it only takes one" -- for sure, it's harder to doubt an accuser when the accused is not spotless. But false accusations are a crime, too. And they affect the innocent as well the guilty.