Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[BirdycatNY]

if they were as you say knocked unconscious, how is it known what happened?

Imagine going out to a restaurant for one beer after work with an newly formed acquaintance who you have no intention of being intimate with and waking up early the next morning at this person's home with little to no recollection of the previous evening. You don't remember how you got there and your clothes are off or disheveled. Do you think perhaps someone may have spiked your drink with something? Or do you really think you would black out over one beer, not remember even transportation etc. and likely you would sense physically that you were violated in some fashion. What would you think in this scenario, Charlie09?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

From article linked below, BBM:

"When a man is sitting a few feet away from you, side-by-side with his wife, on the occasion of having generously donated art to a museum and graciously granted you an interview, most people want to be polite, diffuse tension, and save face. Resisting those impulses is hard, even when it’s your job. So if you ever wonder why a victim is reluctant to go public with an accusation, consider the case of the AP reporter, who could barely manage to ask a question."

Link: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...s_organization_suppress_it_for_more_than.html

 

[lawstudent]

Did any of them have any idea what they were drugged with? With the normally used 'date rape drug', they could have been minimally conscious and had some hazy memories. There aren't a lot of drugs that will totally knock you out such that you are unconscious the whole night, but they certainly render you unable to give consent or resist. In addition to possible physical injuries, I have heard from people who were slipped something in a drink about the effects of roofies. They describe bits of memories and extreme vomiting/dizzyness that they knew wasn't the result of the few drinks they had.

I do feel it is worth pointing out that defamation suits are not easy to win. Especially with something like this, where it's just someone's word against another's.

 

[BirdycatNY]

Did any of them have any idea what they were drugged with? With the normally used 'date rape drug', they could have been minimally conscious and had some hazy memories. There aren't a lot of drugs that will totally knock you out such that you are unconscious the whole night, but they certainly render you unable to give consent or resist. In addition to possible physical injuries, I have heard from people who were slipped something in a drink about the effects of roofies. They describe bits of memories and extreme vomiting/dizzyness that they knew wasn't the result of the few drinks they had.

I do feel it is worth pointing out that defamation suits are not easy to win. Especially with something like this, where it's just someone's word against another's.

Joyce Emmons. Former comedy club manager Joyce Emmons told TMZ in a story published Nov. 22 that she ran in the same crowd as Cosby in the late 1970s, and that he kept "a drawer full of drugs." Emmons says “one night she got a bad migraine and Cosby offered her a white pill which he said 'was a little strong' but could cure a headache,” according to TMZ. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...lt_rape_drugs_feature_in_women_s_stories.html

I am not sure about all of the alleged victims, but Constrand said "herbal pills" and another valium (I think). If BC actually had a dresser full of drugs, one would think the doctor(s) who prescribed medicine or supplier could be tracked down and the specific drug(s) verified. It may be difficult with HIPAA, unless some friend or supplier other than doctor though. JMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

To Snoods and Pomegranate:

Thank you for courageously sharing your experiences here in an attempt to shed insights on this issue from a firsthand perspective. That took guts.

It pains me that both of you feel guilty for not reporting your attackers. I'm sure both of you have heard this before, but I don't think it can be said enough: neither of you is the guilty party.

Big hugs to both of you. May you find the peace and healing you deserve.

 

[Truthy]

Did any of them have any idea what they were drugged with? With the normally used 'date rape drug', they could have been minimally conscious and had some hazy memories. There aren't a lot of drugs that will totally knock you out such that you are unconscious the whole night, but they certainly render you unable to give consent or resist. In addition to possible physical injuries, I have heard from people who were slipped something in a drink about the effects of roofies. They describe bits of memories and extreme vomiting/dizzyness that they knew wasn't the result of the few drinks they had.

I do feel it is worth pointing out that defamation suits are not easy to win. Especially with something like this, where it's just someone's word against another's.

Many thought something was mixed in their drinks- so he could do a higher dosage of something like valium, he mixed it in anything from tea to some sort of boozy drink. Other times, he was said to offer pills he claimed would help when women weren't feeling well.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

By "obvious", I assume you mean it's obvious that victims and prosecutors alike are reluctant to take on the legal "dream team" Cosby could and would assemble with his vast wealth. As I'm sure you know, victims who have been drugged during a rape make poor witnesses because their memories are impaired--which isn't to say they don't know they were raped.

Don't assume, Nova. You know what that does. :lol:

Charlie, what is the obvious reason?

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/bill-cosby-speak-out-against-472176677

Comic Bill Cosby is to do a tell-all *TV interview to address a series of rape *claims made against him.

It is thought Cosby, 77, who has been accused of sexual assault by at least 15 women, will respond in a month – when he hopes the situation has calmed down.

Bidding wars have begun in the US to bag the *interview, with the Today show or chat show host David Letterman likely contenders.

http://www.standard.net/National-Commentary/2014/11/30/You-did-this-Bill-Cosby.html

Rape.

My favorite Bill Cosby comedy routine was a tie between "Go Carts" and "Chicken Heart" from his 1960's album, "Wonderfulness."

At least 15 rapes.

I have found friends and acquaintances throughout the years who shared a love for this man, whom we all saw as a father figure; a mentor with such humor, storytelling skill and public passion for the traditional family that he was for us an example of how we would like our dads to be.

Multiple drug and alcohol infused rapes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...3ac54c-774c-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html

Just last year, at Ben’s Chili Bowl’s 55th anniversary celebration, Bill Cosby was the star of the show at the historic eatery. On an August day, the comedian took the mike and held court near a colorful mural bearing a portrait of him on the side of the restaurant.

Now, 15 months later, it’s time for that image of Cosby to come down.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...s_but_only_one_s_career.html?wpisrc=obnetwork

Why Does Alleged Sexual Predator R. Kelly Still Have a Career?

Barbara Bowman, one of Cosby’s alleged victims, first told her story to Philadelphia magazine’s Robert Huber in 2006. In a piece for the Washington Post last week, Bowman says people finally listened to her because “a man, Hannibal Buress” (italics hers) gave voice to what she’d been saying for a decade. Scocca argued back in February that stories like Bowman's were ignored because they contradicted Cosby’s happy, smiley TV image—that “nobody wanted to live in a world where Bill Cosby was a sexual predator. It was too much to handle.” And in a Slate piece, also this February, Newsweek’s Katie J.M. Baker told Amanda Hess that the women making claims against Cosby were blithely cast aside “because they were imperfect victims,” that nobody had much sympathy for “ambitious aspiring actresses and models who were hanging out with an older man who said he'd make them famous.”

I don’t think any of these explanations is quite right. It’s certainly true that, in 2006, “nobody wanted to live in a world where Bill Cosby was a sexual predator.” But I don’t get the sense that anyone is particularly excited to ponder Cliff Huxtable’s alleged sex crimes in 2014, and yet here we are. To understand what’s changed, let’s consider the case of R. Kelly, a man who, despite a Cosby-esque litany of sexual assault allegations against him, has yet to face a Cosby-esque backlash.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.burlingtoncountytimes.co...cle_1e238a4d-1be0-5b5c-b330-02f1c3f19976.html
This is the Bill Cosby I know
Posted: Sunday, November 30, 2014 1:00 am
By Eugene Kane

Last summer, I went to his show at the Riverside Theater at his personal invitation; my date and I had a private audience with him before the show. Days earlier, he was the commencement speaker at Marquette University. Hanging with him was a heady experience, indeed.
I’m not totally objective on the subject of Cosby, but I’m not a sycophant who refuses to acknowledge reports of numerous women insisting their encounters with him involved being drugged and taken advantage of sexually.
Again, I’ve seen his impact on people up close, and it seems unlikely he would ever have to coerce someone through illicit means simply because it appeared most people are willing to give him anything he wants of their own free will.

WENDY MURPHY: Ugly truth seeps out about Bill Cosby
By Wendy Murphy
For The Patriot Ledger
Posted Nov. 29, 2014 @ 5:00 am
Updated Nov 29, 2014 at 2:50 PM

The number of women accusing Bill Cosby of sexual assault is up to seven by now, which makes the guy’s recent claims that it’s nothing but “innuendo” sound desperately silly.
“Innuendo” means “suggestive” or “disparaging hint or intimation.” “Innuendo” as a defense in a case like this means no one has personally come forward and the evidence consists of whisper campaigns and rumors.
Hardly “innuendo,” the list of victims includes many who have openly and credibly described a similar M.O. for Cosby, who allegedly used his fame to lure women into “visiting” him with promises that he wanted to “mentor” them in their careers. When they accepted, they say he demanded sexual favors as a quid pro quo. When they refused, he allegedly used drugs to facilitate his assaults, then he left them in rumpled heaps like yesterday’s trash.

(up to seven...? Keep up, will you?)

- The world is full of people whose “good-guy” image enables them to slide right by public suspicion, but Bill Cosby’s Teflon is a whole new level of slippery. The man is the comic equivalent of Santa Claus, which makes the burden of proof nearly insurmountable because we can’t accept Cosby as a rapist without giving up a bit of faith in humanity itself. If Bill Cosby is a “bad guy,” whom can we trust, and how on earth do we figure out who the real good guys are?

http://www.enterprisenews.com/article/20141128/NEWS/311299980/12326/OPINION/?Start=2

 

[Trino]

I'm not saying Cosby did not do this. My question is what purpose does it have in 2014?

Cosby's reputation is now "toast." If that was the purpose, that's certainly been done. He can easily hide away the rest of his life.

If the purpose was to make the accusers feel better psychologically, that's probably done now that the accusations have come out.

Is the 2014 purpose $$$? IMO a civil action suit is in the making. Cosby will be held accountable financially, although he will still be a wealthy man.

I've seen the word "rape" used a lot. Just a comment from Victoria Valentino: "I don't think I ever called it by the name 'rape,' you know? I just felt used," she said.

Read more at http://www.accesshollywood.com/bill...on-lawsuit_article_101100#F6fjkI4a1Ftqx2g0.99

 

[Donjeta]

Maybe a defense mechanism. If you don't say it out loud it didn't happen.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...074938-718e-11e4-8808-afaa1e3a33ef_story.html

Here's Victoria Valentino using the word rape:

She and Foster each took a pill, and Cosby did, too, she said.

“We were slurring words. I couldn’t function,” she recalled, adding that Cosby said he would take them home but instead drove them to an apartment in the hills above the Chateau Marmont hotel. Valentino said Cosby wanted to show them some memorabilia from “I Spy.”

Once inside, Valentino said, Foster passed out. The room was spinning, and Valentino said she remembered feeling as if she was going to throw up. She said she saw Cosby sitting in a love seat near Foster and she noticed that he had an erection.

“I reached out, grabbing him, trying to get his attention, trying to distract him,” Valentino said. “He came over to me and sat down on the love seat and opened his fly and grabbed my head and pushed my head down. And then he turned me over. It was like a waking nightmare.”

She protested but could not stop him, she said. Cosby slipped out alone, telling Valentino to call a cab if she wanted to go home, she said.

Valentino said she never called the police. “What kind of credibility did I have?” she said. “In those days, it was always the rape victim who wound up being victimized. You didn’t want to go to the police. That’s the last thing you wanted to do back then.”

She's clearly talking about herself as a rape victim there even though it's not in first person.

And if someone who was given pills that knock them out protests a sexual act and yet the aggressor can't be stopped I tend to call it rape even if other people prefer some euphemisms.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm not saying Cosby did not do this. My question is what purpose does it have in 2014?

What relevance does the year have here? Suppose Cosby did do it, is there some time limit when rape has to be forgiven and forgotten and shushed and never mentioned again?

The years gone past are important in terms of the statute of limitations running out but I'm not sure it makes much of a difference really... If some of these women had gone to the police in 1965 or 1972 or 1984 it's quite possible there would not have been enough evidence to prosecute anyhow.

Cosby's reputation is now "toast." If that was the purpose, that's certainly been done. He can easily hide away the rest of his life.

Is that a good or a bad thing? Do we as a society want alleged serial rapists to have a good reputation so they can mentor further young aspiring actresses and sexually assault a few more or if it was our daughters, would we like to know that there is good reason to be wary of this man?

If the purpose was to make the accusers feel better psychologically, that's probably done now that the accusations have come out.

Yeah, it seems to me that being heard and getting their version of the truth out was psychologically quite a big thing for many of these women.

Is the 2014 purpose $$$? IMO a civil action suit is in the making. Cosby will be held accountable financially, although he will still be a wealthy man.

Isn't there a statute of limitations in filing a civil case?

I wonder how much he'll be getting from the exclusive interview the networks are said to be bidding on.

 

[Donjeta]

The barbershop is also where I heard the guy in the corner look up from the domino table and say, “Yeah, Cos has it pretty good right now, but Camille [Cosby’s real-life wife] is whuppin’ his on a daily basis for messing around with them white women.”

Then someone would chime in about a friend of a friend whose buddy saw Cosby in Vegas at Caesar’s Palace with a young girl hanging off his arm. Soon, the conversation would drift toward stories someone had heard about how Cosby treated those women.

The older men in the barbershop would tell these folks to stop talking that foolishness — some in language that I can’t use here. Their point was that, even in the barbershop, we shouldn’t be spreading these stories. Dr. Cosby (and that’s what people called him — Dr. Cosby) was one of W.E.B DuBois’ fabled Talented Tenth. (As DuBois wrote in 1903, the problem of the Talented Tenth "is the problem of developing the Best of this race that they may guide the Mass away from the contamination and death of the Worst.")

Cosby was the 'Good Black Man' who showed that we were not as portrayed on the evening news. Running Cosby down, they believed, would reflect on all of us — black people in general, but also black men specifically.

http://crosscut.com/2014/11/28/culture-ethnicity/122973/bill-cosby-time-stand-and-face-lights/

 

[nrdsb4]

I don't know why filing a civil suit seems to cement the idea that these women are lying. In the cases where the statute of limitations has passed, this is basically their only remedy.

I'd want to hit him where it hurts, and for me, it would be less about me getting the money and more about him having to give it up. It would be about making him pay in the only way I could, and it would be SOME kind of acknowledgment that he did it and was being forced by the court system to suffer in some way for it.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.gonzalesinquirer.com/opinion/article_4da70562-7714-11e4-b4d9-370e22006d3a.html
I can't seem to copy and paste from this opinion piece but it makes a good point about using the alleged victim's alcohol and drug problems to minimize her claims.

How do you get from all that to ... serial rapist? And make no mistake: These allegations do not "tarnish" his legacy. If true, they become his legacy, reducing to a distant second all his achievements, all those aspirational lectures about values, all those doors he opened and laughter he earned.

Granted, Americans are exceptionally forgiving of their celebrities. Having served time for obstruction of justice, Martha Stewart is back doing her cooking and crafts shtick. The accused racist Paula Deen is cooking again. The accused rapist Kobe Bryant is still playing basketball. The convicted rapist Mike Tyson has a new cartoon show.

But Cosby would likely find the road back to respectability more difficult than they, if not impossible. In the first place, the crime he is accused of -- drugging and raping multiple women -- is particularly heinous. In the second place, it is spectacularly at odds with the person we thought he was for 50 years. In the third place, it allegedly went on for so long. A still-growing number of women have now come forward to accuse Cosby of sexual assault in incidents stretching from 1969 to 2004.

Performances by Cosby in Nevada, Illinois, Arizona, South Carolina and Washington State have been canceled as more women come forward accusing the entertainer of sexually assaulting them many years ago. Two other appearances, scheduled for April in Champaign, Illinois, also were called off as were February shows in Reno, Nevada, and in Florence, South Carolina.


What’s surprising is that some of the shows are months away. The director of The Broadway Center in Tacoma, Washington said that it has canceled Cosby’s April 18 appearance because it conflicts with the nonprofit organization’s mission “to strengthen our community’s social fabric by building empathy, furthering education and sharing joy.”


Still 29 other shows remain on his schedule through May 2015 — at least for now.

http://www.timesleader.com/news/life/50734205/Scandal-threatens-TVs-favorite-father
http://www.goerie.com/article/20141...-accusations-can't-be-ignored:-Leonard-Pitts#

As victim advocates, rape survivors and allies against sexual violence, we stand in solidarity with all women allegedly sexually violated by entertain Bill Cosby.
We are in awe of their courage, strength and resilience as they stand up and speak out for themselves and other women who share their experience.

Read more: http://www.sj-r.com/article/20141128/Opinion/141129581#ixzz3KYrxM2bJ

I was struck by the words of one woman who had never before spoken out. She was an aspiring scriptwriter not yet even 20 years old with some early successes, and when she was approached by Cosby she was overjoyed. She said he drugged and assaulted her in a bungalow on the set on The Bill Cosby Show in 1969. She told no one at the time.

“There was no word for what happened to me,” she told People magazine. “In 1969, rape meant you were walking in an alleyway and someone pulls a knife.” That was true. There was no such thing as acquaintance or date rape, at least not that we’d ever heard of. A rapist was some guy in the bushes.

This is imo obliquely relevant to Victoria Valentino not calling it rape.

As for the charge that the women are looking for a payoff, what would they be paid off for? To keep quiet – after they’ve talked? And the statute of limitations has ended for most if not all of the accusations against Cosby. Plus there’s no physical evidence after all this time.

These women know this. They clearly just want their stories to be told. Finally.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/14545912-95/katy-burns-the-cosby-conundrum

The number of women involved in the Cosby allegations is, at last count, 19 (according to Slate online magazine). And, with all that, nothing can be gained by their ranks swelling. He won’t be prosecuted. Nor is there money to be made easily in civil suits. There’s talk of a class-action suit against him but that seems hopelessly strewn with obstacles.

Even assuming that a few of the stories were embellished or even made up, the only intelligent explanation for what’s been happening is simply that the victims of a sexual predator want him accountable for what was done to them, despite the exalted reputation he has enjoyed for half a century.

http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jeff-simon/the-cosby-mess-is-both-tragic-and-historic-20141130

 

[Donjeta]

Disclaimer: this counts as hearsay or rumor as it's not the woman herself but her friend telling the story and she couldn't even track the alleged victim down for details.

But FWIW here's another accusation. Allegedly Cosby was in a consensual relationship with a woman, "Sandy" and then one night drugged her and had sex with her.

Writer is:

Charlotte Laws, Ph.D., is an author and revenge activist, who has helped over 250 women fight cyber harassment and online sexism. She is also a former politician and NBC commentator. You can follow Charlotte on Twitter @CharlotteLaws

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/30/bill_cosby_and_drugging_my_34_year_old_secret/

“Bill drugged me last night, and then had sex with me,” Sandy confided. “I just don’t understand it. It’s not like I would have said no to anything.”

He had given her two pills and said, “These will relax you.” She trusted him and swallowed them. She figured they were vitamins or herbal medicine. They did not relax her; they flat-out knocked her unconscious.

“He didn’t need to do it,” she repeated. “I just don’t understand why.”

Did it turn him on to see a woman “out cold” or was this all a mistake? Maybe Sandy’s body had reacted to the pills in a bizarre and unexpected way. I was willing to give Bill the benefit of the doubt, although Sandy felt his actions were intentional.

She did not view the encounter as rape, because she was already in an intimate relationship with him. I likewise did not categorize it as a sex crime, because it was Sandy’s experience, and she had a right to define it any way she wished. I was only the bystander, the friend, the shoulder to cry on. Of course, now that I am older, I look back and realize that when a woman is unconscious, she cannot ever consent.

Sandy had no idea what happened to her that night. She knew it involved sex; she could tell by the way her body felt afterward. It never occurred to either of us that Bill might be drugging other women. We both assumed the encounter was a “one-off.” After all, Bill was charming, intelligent, attractive and famous. He did not need to sedate women in order to secure dates. He could not possibly have a dark side.

Salon asked Bill Cosby's representatives for comment on this story. They did not respond to the request. If they do choose to offer a response at a later date. we will update the story.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Cosby should just go sit in a corner with a box of Jello Pudding Pops [do they even make that garbage anymore?] count his money and not inflict himself or his penis on anyone else.

He is a tired old man who is not funny and offers no redeeming value to the world. IMHO

 

[rosemadderlake]

I have been following this thread and am mighty impressed with the WS’ers gathering of facts, articles, and the opinions you all have offered on this very complex story involving many lives.

I am from the generation that listened to his records in the 70’s and watched I Spy. --Cosby’s career is enormous, spans multiple generations, and while I doubt the allegations against him will affect his artistic legacy in the long run, I do believe what these women have done collectively, and successfully, is shamed him right back. -So much so that some of the universities he supports are dropping him like a hot potato. That speaks volumes – imo.

In the 70’s, I don’t think any woman would go to the police for rape unless she ended up in a hospital, first. There was no rape kit, no DNA testing, no recovery through therapy. -And if your family knew? Well, might as well bring the nails for the coffin.

To the question of why now, in 2014? The media wouldn’t investigate this story in 2005-it was hushed up. For the women who are voicing their experiences now, I don’t think this was a planned event but a spontaneous rising sparked from another comedian’s comment on the subject, and the sheer power of numbers because for the first time there is the vehicle of social media along with a new MSM willing to publish it – going around the world in less than 60 seconds. I think these women are brave.

I saw Cosby interviewed by Jimmy Fallon on the Tonight Show this past summer—watched with embarrassment for the overly polite Fallon as Cosby emotionally strong armed him and got in his face –made him shut up while he took over the show. I don’t even remember what he was talking about amidst the thought that this man is a sidewinder and needs to retire. But in thinking about it again - there has always been an in-your-face aspect to Cosby’s story telling. And, I think there is a lot of fury behind the benevolent veneer.

I was reading an article on Ferguson in the NYT week in review section this morning and came across some insights about Cosby and women in the middle of the article. The predominantly white woman factor in the allegations speaks to power, cracking some perceived moral code – and the notches in the belt of manhood. And, the drugs wipe out memory while keeping the perceived façade intact.

Where do we go after Ferguson?

“But Mr. Cosby’s put-downs are more pernicious than that. How could one ever defend his misogynistic indictment of black women’s lax morals and poor parenting skills? “Five, six children, same woman, eight, 10 different husbands or whatever,” he liked to recite. “Pretty soon you’re going to have to have DNA cards so you can tell who you’re making love to. You don’t know who this is; might be your grandmother.”

Journalistic mea culpas are now accompanying Mr. Cosby’s Shakespearean fall from grace. He has been recast as a leering king who is more sinner than sinned against as the allegations of drugging and raping women pile up. But these writers avoid mentioning the sexist blinders that kept them from seeing how hateful Mr. Cosby was toward black women long before he was accused of abusing mostly white women”.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/opinion/sunday/where-do-we-go-after-ferguson.html?_r=0

 

[Donjeta]

Ohh the hypocrisy... Scolding women for having eight or ten sexual partners... how many people has Cosby had sexual encounters with? Whatever you think of the rape allegations it doesn't seem like he's been particularly monogamous in his life.

 

[LinasK]

Maybe a defense mechanism. If you don't say it out loud it didn't happen.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...074938-718e-11e4-8808-afaa1e3a33ef_story.html

Here's Victoria Valentino using the word rape:


She's clearly talking about herself as a rape victim there even though it's not in first person.

And if someone who was given pills that knock them out protests a sexual act and yet the aggressor can't be stopped I tend to call it rape even if other people prefer some euphemisms.

By definition, sex without conscious consent is rape. There's no other way around it.