Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[XXXXXXXX]

JMO, but 50 Shades of Grey is a book about the erotic fantasy of submission. Psychology Today has an article that might provide some insights into the popular response to the book: Power Play: good girls' guide to power and dominance. (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-play/201206/50-shades-grey)

Thank you! I don't know why a few posters can't distinguish fantasy from reality. My husband is a psychiatrist (and yes, I know that doesn't make me a professional poster), but he could curl anyone's hair with stories of FANTASIES he's been told. No, he never gave me any specifics since that would violate HIPPA laws, but he has mentioned how ludicrous it is for seemingly level headed people to confuse FANTASY with reality.

Apparently BC also makes no distinction between fantasies (of his OWN) and non consensual sex, either.

IF I see one more person posting something like "Shaddup. They wanted it. You KNOW they did", I think my head is just going to explode. :facepalm:

 

[Donjeta]

If Bill Cosby indeed drugged and raped multiple women over several decades it's very unfortunate indeed that he was never reported to the police and investigated until 2006. Even if it didn't lead to any criminal proceedings it might have scared him of making further attempts or made women more aware of the danger when dealing with him. So I hope women would have more power to report sexual crimes. And men too.

It's also very scary the way everyone who's heard rumors can look away and pretend they didn't. The Jian Ghomeshi article that was posted above is a good read. Everyone go read it, now.

But ultimately, if Bill Cosby had more than one victim, it's not the previous victims and their silence who are responsible for the further victims. It's Bill Cosby.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

From the Jian Ghomeshi article. Thanks, Donjeta. So eerily similar. Just a few name and circumstance changes are all that is necessary.

No wonder the women didn’t hope to be taken seriously. No wonder most filed no grievances, and none of them laid charges, nor spoke out in public, until they learned they were not alone. They expected not to be believed, and worse, that they would be hounded and humiliated—and the way many Q fans have treated them on social media proves them right. Neither did they trust the legal system, for good reason. A lot of your older male journalist friends don’t get that: “Why not go to court?” they say on Twitter.

And then, some of the women say they feared that speaking out might jeopardize their careers in Canadian media. “I felt like Jian was CBC god,” as one of them puts it.

 

[Donjeta]

It's often a catch-22 situation for outsiders. If you're silent you may blame yourself for covering for a criminal and contributing to a culture of deaf, blind and mute monkeys where rape and sexual harassment can go on undisturbed and molesters never be held responsible for anything they did. If you speak out, you might get blamed for tarninshing someone's reputation on the basis of rumor and unproven allegations and you weren't even there, how do you know what happened, and what if you're wrong?

 

[Sonya610]

It's also very scary the way everyone who's heard rumors can look away and pretend they didn't.

The people that heard the rumors COULDN'T do anything about it. We also don't know that they all "looked away", I am sure many that heard the rumors warned women they knew.

 

[Nova]

I've no idea who's buying the badly written book but Fifty Shades of Grey goes beyond bureaucracy when it comes to consent, they had an entire legal document detailing which acts the participants consent to and which not.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/dave-chappelle-jokes-bill-cosby-757465

Thanks, Donjeta. Obviously, I haven't read the book. But since feminism (and the laws in many jurisdictions) holds that a woman may WITHDRAW her consent at any moment, even after penetration has begun, a signed contract is already obsolete by the time the ink dries.

 

[Nova]

My bolds.
I'd like to respond to the phrase which I put in bold.

The explanation offered by the love is respect blog, is that sexual coercion happens when there is a lack of consent by the pursued party. For example, if a woman is told she can only prove her love for her boyfriend by acquiescing to his demands, that's coercion. If a woman is drugged to make her more malleable, that's coercion. If a man continues to harass a woman after she has refused him, that's coercion. According to the definition by the blog, sexual coercion is “the act of using pressure, alcohol or drugs, or force to have sexual contact with someone against his or her will”. http://www.loveisrespect.org/what-sexual-coercion

(FWIW, although I described a heterosexual relationship as an example in which a man is coercing a woman, the definitions/descriptions would hold true if applied to the reverse situation of a woman coercing a man. They would also apply or in a homosexual relationship in which one man is coercing another man, or a woman is coercing another woman.)

Good old fashioned seduction was considered a crime in many states. The following is a legal definition.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/seduction

PS
JMO, but 50 Shades of Grey is a book about the erotic fantasy of submission. Psychology Today has an article that might provide some insights into the popular response to the book: Power Play: good girls' guide to power and dominance. (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-play/201206/50-shades-grey)

Thank you, wendiesan. First (and I'm not blaming you), I see no difference between defining seduction as "extra-marital" and saying married women can't be raped. What were the authors thinking?

People do change their minds over time. Maybe I decide he has a good sense of humor or, more likely, I have too many beers. Either way, I don't see why a little persistence is "coercion".

It seems to me "coercion" should be defined as the use of unequal power to compel sexual activity, whether that power is a larger body mass, a higher position on the office flowchart, or the respect that comes with greater age or life accomplishments. And in most cases, coercion comes very close to actual rape.

Re 50 SHADES, I do understand the difference between actual desire and the fantasy of being so desirable your partner can't restrain himself. (Even male-oriented softcore sex is often focussed on "insatiable" women who can't keep their hands off pimply teens.) But at the risk of repeating myself, I think not just the book, but our sexual habits in general suggest that nobody outside a college support group really wants to sign paperwork before getting to or allowing one's partner to get to second base.

 

[Donjeta]

Thanks, Donjeta. Obviously, I haven't read the book. But since feminism (and the laws in many jurisdictions) holds that a woman may WITHDRAW her consent at any moment, even after penetration has begun, a signed contract is already obsolete by the time the ink dries.

IIRC they also had stipulations about that, what to do if any of the parties change their minds in the middle of things

I don't know, I think it might be a good idea to sign a contract. At least it takes up so much time to contact a lawyer and draft a document that everyone has time to sober up and think about birth control

If Cosby really drugged women unconscious that has very little to do with seduction or coercion or any gray area between consent and lack of it I think, to me that's a physical assault pure and simple. (Manipulative tactics may have been used before or after the assault to get victims into a suitable position or to keep them quiet afterwards)

 

[Donjeta]

Oh well what do you know! It's the journalistic standards that are lacking again. The reporters are to blame.

“Let me say this. I only expect the black media to uphold the standards of excellence in journalism and when you do that you have to go in with a neutral mind,” Cosby told a New York Post writer, who also writes for black media outlets, in a short phone conversation from his Massachusetts home.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/bill-cosby-breaks-silence-black-media-stay-neutral-073643824.html

Neutral meaning, shut up and be on his side?

Why is the blackness of the media significant to the treatment of the case, why? Isn't the truth the same for the black and the white and the blue journalists? And some of the alleged victims are also black so I'm not sure why being a black journalist means that you should side with the alleged black rapist and discount the alleged victims.

 

[Sonya610]

I don't know, I think it might be a good idea to sign a contract. At least it takes up so much time to contact a lawyer and draft a document that everyone has time to sober up and think about birth control

Or maybe we should just follow sharia law to prevent coercion and rape -- never allow women to be alone with unrelated men period. That way no form of coercion can possibly take place!

The feminists should love that idea, it would finally put an end to date rape and guilt rape and he-talked-me-into-it-rape and all of the other sorts of coercion they encounter!

 

[Donjeta]

Or maybe we should just follow sharia law to prevent coercion and rape -- never allow women to be alone with unrelated men period. That way no form of coercion can possibly take place!

The feminists should love that idea, it would finally put an end to date rape and work place sexual harassment and guilt rape and he-talked-me-into-it-rape all of the other sorts of rape/coercion they encounter!

That wouldn't work I think... men who are related have coerced women into sex forever. And they don't have to be alone either.

Women get raped in the sharia countries as well, they just have even harder time reporting it because of the consequences.

 

[Really?]

Just checking in to see if any new women were added to the list...since Beverly J

 

[Donjeta]

http://jaybookman.blog.ajc.com/2014/12/13/coming-to-grips-with-the-truth-about-bill-cosby/

Personally, I’m struck by the fact that he got away with it for so long, and on such a large scale. How that could happen?

If you read their accounts, Cosby’s accusers paint a portrait of a man who was utterly confident that his celebrity and power would protect him. Perhaps more telling, his victims shared that belief. It was unanimous: Predator and prey knew who had the power, and who did not. Even after the attacks, once their heads had cleared and they were out of his grasp, his victims still felt just as helpless against Cosby as they had felt under the influence of the drugs that he had apparently plied so many with.

To a person, his victims believed that if they had gone public, nobody would have believed them; the cost of complaining was much higher than the cost of staying quiet. They felt alone, and the recent discovery that in fact they were not alone, that there were many others like them who shared that experience and shame, seems to have empowered them to now speak up.

(He seems unaware that there were alleged attacks in the 1990's and 2000s too)

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Bill Cosby praises wife's 'love and strength' as she sticks with him despite dozens of women accusing him of raping them

When asked by a reporter from the New York Post's Page Six how she was coping he said: 'Love and the strength of womanhood.' He then repeated the phrase twice more.

He also told the reporter to keep a 'neutral mind' when reporting the rape claims, claiming to do anything else would be bad journalism.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...women-accusing-raping-them.html#ixzz3LsChL0pw

 

[Donjeta]

That's his go-to defense it seems. Just blame it on the others: Anyone who reports anything other than "Bill Cosby is such a genius comedian and Marty Singer says the allegations are all fake" is a bad journalist so don't you dare.

 

[Slebby]

Imo, praising his wife with the "love and strength of womanhood" characterization sounds like a manipulation of CC. Like saying, "this is how you're going to respond". It disgusts me that he tries to speak for her.

And now he's played the race card with his "black media must remain neutral" statement? Imo, again, here he is telling the black media what to do. What an ego. I am very interested in seeing how this plays out in the black media, in all media.

As bad as his situation has gotten, I think he just made things worse for himself by opening his mouth. He's crashing and burning.

IMHO


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[Trino]

I'm not saying BC did not rape/drug women, but because one (several) women have come forth with stories does not mean all the women are truthful. How do you differentiate?

 

[BirdycatNY]

Bill Cosby praises wife's 'love and strength' as she sticks with him despite dozens of women accusing him of raping them

When asked by a reporter from the New York Post's Page Six how she was coping he said: 'Love and the strength of womanhood.' He then repeated the phrase twice more.

He also told the reporter to keep a 'neutral mind' when reporting the rape claims, claiming to do anything else would be bad journalism.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...women-accusing-raping-them.html#ixzz3LsChL0pw

Thanks for article, BIS. I'm trying to understand what BC's message is, can anyone dissect this? Is he essentially claiming that anyone who doesn't side with him is biased? And I don't understand the strength of womanhood comment. Are these back-handed insults to the American public, ie logic if my wife is strong, then other women weak? His statements are so confusing, idk.

 

[Slebby]

I'm not saying BC did not rape/drug women, but because one (several) women have come forth with stories does not mean all the women are truthful. How do you differentiate?

There are folks here who can answer your question - "how do you differentiate?" - way better than I will. But my first inclination is to respond: why do you have to differentiate? If BC is a drugging and raping pig, is he somehow less of a pig if he only did it 10 times? Or 5?

Speaking for myself, I don't know what is gained by knowing 100 percent of the allegations are true, or only 75 percent, or 25 percent? If BC drugged and raped *some* women, if it's 2 or 5 or 25 doesn't really matter to me. He's not going to jail, he may or may not face civil action, which he may or may not lose. He has already gotten off lightly. To paraphrase one very astute comedian, BC will be living out his years in luxurious exile.

PS I personally believe the victims. And I also believe there are more out there who have not come forward.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Thanks for article, BIS. I'm trying to understand what BC's message is, can anyone dissect this? Is he essentially claiming that anyone who doesn't side with him is biased? And I don't understand the strength of womanhood comment. Are these back-handed insults to the American public, ie logic if my wife is strong, then other women weak? His statements are so confusing, idk.

He is asking people to remain neutral. Not side with him.
I'm still waiting on judgment here. I think that it could be that she knows these allegations are false because she was with him at that time. It could be that there is a past we don't know about where these women have threatened to tell a story if he does not pay him. There are more possibilities than can be counted.

I don't like end runs around the law. And I don't like people suing people for money unless there is a death.

So for me this is still not coming out where I need it to to make the leap to him being guilty of anything.