Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[Trident]

I don't know how old you are but some of these women are in their seventies now.

Life would get rather complicated if we prohibit all the communication between men and women in private places on the assumption that everyone needs to expect and guard against rape all the time because men just can't help it, being men.

What would happen to my male clients? There are only three men and fortysomething women working here but the clients are both genders equally. Should we only accept the female clients? What if their male family members come to visit and want to discuss the situation? Should we say no?

I'm in a private place with my husband every day. Have I forfeited my right to expect that he doesn't roofie and rape me while I'm unconscious?

And why stop there? It's not only men who can drug and rape and assault people, women can too, so we should never be in a private space with any other women either. Or in open spaces for that matter, because rape does not require a room. How about gang rapes? Sometimes people get raped by groups of people so avoiding being alone with a person in a private space is no guarantee of safety.

Is there anywhere but a bank vault that I can lock from the inside that I can go and not blame myself for putting myself in a dangerous position if I get raped?

He has had a reputation for being a good guy and there were work related reasons for many of the women for being in contact with him. I can understand if they didn't immediately leap to the assumption that he was going to rape them.

Okay, you know very well what I mean, I think. No point in beating a dead horse. Minds are made up, women feel used, I believe men also feel a bit skittish.

Make of this what you will, it really doesn't matter. I'm still on the side of Cosby, if we need to take sides, because I believe he has done more good than a thousand clamoring women.

I do, in a way, see Cosby as the good Doc and good father, but I'm also smart enough, barely, to see greed when I come up against it - naming no names, 'ell I don't even know them. What I do see is a man who has done as much good as possible, and in today's world that won't cut it. yet Cosby stood for something, which is probably more than I can say for his accusers???

No, that isn't a defensive 'cause I don't know he's guilty of anything, jaywalking included. I'm just saying "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones". Sad. if true. Horrendous, if not.


My opinion only

 

[Donjeta]

I see it as a little contradictory to say that someone is such a good guy who has done so many great things to the world and simultaneously saying that all those women should have known that he's not to be trusted and he'll probably drug and rape you straight away if you give him the opportunity.

Why would anyone be afraid that such a good guy is going to drug and rape them?

It seems to me that the women are standing up for victims of sexual violence and against the culture of silencing the victims. JMO.

He's no doubt done many good things, given generous gifts, contributed to education and made many people happy while watching his performances and according to his family he's been a good father and husband. But if it's true that he also drugged and raped multiple women, his good deeds don't cancel his crimes out, IMO.

 

[Trident]

I see it as a little contradictory to say that someone is such a good guy who has done so many great things to the world and simultaneously saying that all those women should have known that he's not to be trusted and he'll probably drug and rape you straight away if you give him the opportunity.

Why would anyone be afraid that such a good guy is going to drug and rape them?
It seems to me that the women are standing up for victims of sexual violence. JMO.

Ah, but I never said the bolded part. This is starting to sound like River Monsters, IMO. Put in a hook and see what come up.

 

[melissasmom]

Okay, you know very well what I mean, I think. No point in beating a dead horse. Minds are made up, women feel used, I believe men also feel a bit skittish.

Make of this what you will, it really doesn't matter. I'm still on the side of Cosby, if we need to take sides, because I believe he has done more good than a thousand clamoring women.

I do, in a way, see Cosby as the good Doc and good father, but I'm also smart enough, barely, to see greed when I come up against it - naming no names, 'ell I don't even know them. What I do see is a man who has done as much good as possible, and in today's world that won't cut it. yet Cosby stood for something, which is probably more than I can say for his accusers???

No, that isn't a defensive 'cause I don't know he's guilty of anything, jaywalking included. I'm just saying "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones". Sad. if true. Horrendous, if not.


My opinion only

BBM. No, sorry, it does matter. It matters a lot. Stating that women who are raped were just asking for it, because men just can't control themselves is vile. It is an attitude that needs to go no farther. It is apparent that you will never change your mind, but others, especially our young people, need to be taught that being raped is no ones fault but the rapist.

 

[Donjeta]

Ah, but I never said the bolded part. This is starting to sound like River Monsters, IMO. Put in a hook and see what come up.

That was of course a paraphrase but if the general idea wasn't your message you might need to work on your phrasing a little to avoid confusion. You said "Jump in the lion's den and you probably will get mauled" and discussed in many messages how they only have themselves to blame if they went into a private space with him because they should have known it was an iffy situation and bad things could happen.

 

[Trident]

BBM. No, sorry, it does matter. It matters a lot. Stating that women who are raped were just asking for it, because men just can't control themselves is vile. It is an attitude that needs to go no farther. It is apparent that you will never change your mind, but others, especially our young people, need to be taught that being raped is no ones fault but the rapist.

And maybe I taught my daughters never to put themselves in a situation where they can be. I hear your anger, maybe your pain, who knows, but there ae always two sides to the story. It is mainly older women, not children, or teens, that are accusing him, nor is he accused of dragging anyone into a dark alley. Whatever makes women angry, triggers them, is probably NOT the same as the accusations against Cosby, although who am I, or anyone else, to judge.

Rape is horrible, awful, a crime, but even so, unless there is violence, which I don't see or hear in this case, it is much more complicated, and blame maybe should be shared between those who willingly go there and those who take advantage, IF there is any blame at all, which I'm not sure about.

I think I have better things to do with the rest of my day than throw darts at Cosby or deflect 'em.

Pull up the big girl panties, and by all means, keep 'em there unless you have a written, signed agreement.
,

 

[melissasmom]

And maybe I taught my daughters never to put themselves in a situation where they can be. I hear your anger, maybe your pain, who knows, but there ae always two sides to the story. It is mainly older women, not children, or teens, that are accusing him, nor is he accused of dragging anyone into a dark alley. Whatever makes women angry, triggers them, is probably NOT the same as the accusations against Cosby, although who am I, or anyone else, to judge.

Rape is horrible, awful, a crime, but even so, unless there is violence, which I don't see or hear in this case, it is much more complicated, and blame maybe should be shared between those who willingly go there and those who take advantage, IF there is any blame at all, which I'm not sure about.

I think I have better things to do with the rest of my day than throw darts at Cosby or deflect 'em.

Pull up the big girl panties, and by all means, keep 'em there unless you have a written, signed agreement.
,

Thankfully opinions such as this are in the minority (oops, guess I better add "in my opinion"). People in the year 2014 are more enlightened, intelligent and compassionate to where they realize victim blaming is, well, a bunch of BS. I am sorry that you are in that minority but I am confident (and thankful) that "pool" of cruel voices is getting smaller, and will someday be non-existent.

 

[Donjeta]

Just about everybody is in a situation where it's possible to get raped multiple times every day. There's hardly ever a situation where rape can't happen. The bank vault, if only I have the key... JMO.

Most people live, work, interact, and move about among other humans every day and can hardly avoid it. One of them might be a rapist and physically overpower you, and as everybody's gotta eat and drink something and if you ever take your eyes off your cup for a moment it's possible for someone to slip an extra ingredient in and then you won't know where you'll wake up.

I have never been raped but I try not to feel too self satisfied about it because some of it is just down to to luck and not solely my extraordinary genius in avoiding dangerous situations.

I find the blame question bothersome because willingly going somewhere is usually not a crime. Raping a person is, no matter how they got there.

No one gets a licence to rape because the victim willingly got into a room with you. The rapist doesn't get to blame the victim for his crime.

I have had plenty of people willingly get into different private spaces with me for years and never once have I thought that I should drug and rape any of them.

Drugging people without their knowledge may not leave cuts, bruises and visible injuries like other forms of physical violence but it's violence nevertheless imo.

 

[Trident]

Thankfully opinions such as this are in the minority (oops, guess I better add "in my opinion"). People in the year 2014 are more enlightened, intelligent and compassionate to where they realize victim blaming is, well, a bunch of BS. I am sorry that you are in that minority but I am confident (and thankful) that "pool" of cruel voices is getting smaller, and will someday be non-existent.

Shades of Oprah, LOL, and I look forward to the day when everyone wakes up - IF the US or planet earth last that long.

 

[Knitty]

I'm just appalled. Again. Thank goodness most people understand that men don't have to rape just because the smallest opportunity presents itself. And that women don't deserve to be raped just because they wish to advance their careers.

Many years ago, I went to a job interview IN A MAN'S HOUSE. I got the job and then I spent weekdays for a year IN A MAN'S HOUSE, working. Every morning when I got to work, the coffee was ready. Sometimes he made lunch, and sometimes I did. More than once, I accepted cold medication, Tylenol, etc. from him in order to continue working. NOT ONE TIME did he drug me and then rape me.

Many times, I've had men working in my house. Often it's just been one man. I'm not always in the kitchen, so it would be a simple matter to add something to the coffee pot. NOT ONE TIME have I been drugged and then raped. Apparently to some, it would be MY FAULT if I had.

Most men are good. Most men would never assault a women. Most men are just as appalled as most women. Thank goodness.

 

[lovinlife83]

Okay, you know very well what I mean, I think. No point in beating a dead horse. Minds are made up, women feel used, I believe men also feel a bit skittish.

Make of this what you will, it really doesn't matter. I'm still on the side of Cosby, if we need to take sides, because I believe he has done more good than a thousand clamoring women.

I do, in a way, see Cosby as the good Doc and good father, but I'm also smart enough, barely, to see greed when I come up against it - naming no names, 'ell I don't even know them. What I do see is a man who has done as much good as possible, and in today's world that won't cut it. yet Cosby stood for something, which is probably more than I can say for his accusers???

No, that isn't a defensive 'cause I don't know he's guilty of anything, jaywalking included. I'm just saying "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones". Sad. if true. Horrendous, if not.


My opinion only

*shakes head*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lovinlife83]

I really wanted to believe BC was a good guy and greedy people were just looking for money. After reading article after article, watching interviews, listening to his responses and reading both threads on here I am convinced he is a sick sick man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Morag]

And maybe I taught my daughters never to put themselves in a situation where they can be. I hear your anger, maybe your pain, who knows, but there ae always two sides to the story. It is mainly older women, not children, or teens, that are accusing him, nor is he accused of dragging anyone into a dark alley. Whatever makes women angry, triggers them, is probably NOT the same as the accusations against Cosby, although who am I, or anyone else, to judge.

Rape is horrible, awful, a crime, but even so, unless there is violence, which I don't see or hear in this case, it is much more complicated, and blame maybe should be shared between those who willingly go there and those who take advantage, IF there is any blame at all, which I'm not sure about.

I think I have better things to do with the rest of my day than throw darts at Cosby or deflect 'em.

Pull up the big girl panties, and by all means, keep 'em there unless you have a written, signed agreement.
,

And if your daughter, G-d forbid, were raped, would you say, I told you so, and refuse to encourage her to report it, because she should have known better?

 

[CuriousPortlander]

And maybe I taught my daughters never to put themselves in a situation where they can be. I hear your anger, maybe your pain, who knows, but there ae always two sides to the story. It is mainly older women, not children, or teens, that are accusing him, nor is he accused of dragging anyone into a dark alley. Whatever makes women angry, triggers them, is probably NOT the same as the accusations against Cosby, although who am I, or anyone else, to judge.

Rape is horrible, awful, a crime, but even so, unless there is violence, which I don't see or hear in this case, it is much more complicated, and blame maybe should be shared between those who willingly go there and those who take advantage, IF there is any blame at all, which I'm not sure about.

I think I have better things to do with the rest of my day than throw darts at Cosby or deflect 'em.

Pull up the big girl panties, and by all means, keep 'em there unless you have a written, signed agreement.
,

BBM

Rape, by definition, is a crime of violence.

Rape is one of the most dehumanizing crimes of violence.

http://oag.ca.gov/publications/womansrights/ch7

Sexual violence is defined as:
any sexual act, attempt to obtain a sexual act, unwanted sexual comments or advances, or acts to traffic, or otherwise directed, against a person’s sexuality using coercion, by any person regardless of their relationship to the victim, in any setting,
including but not limited to home and work.

Coercion can cover a whole spectrum of degrees of force. Apart from physical force, it may involve psychological intimidation, blackmail or other threats – for instance, the threat of physical harm, of being dismissed from a job or of not obtaining a job that is sought. It may also occur when the person aggressed is unable to give consent – for instance, while drunk, drugged, asleep or mentally incapable of understanding the situation.

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/violence/global_campaign/en/chap6.pdf

 

[Trino]

Thankfully opinions such as this are in the minority (oops, guess I better add "in my opinion"). People in the year 2014 are more enlightened, intelligent and compassionate to where they realize victim blaming is, well, a bunch of BS. I am sorry that you are in that minority but I am confident (and thankful) that "pool" of cruel voices is getting smaller, and will someday be non-existent.

Non-existent? I certainly hope dissent from a majority opinion does not go away.

 

[Slebby]

Cognitive dissonance is the answer to the question "why doesn't Camille Cosby leave her husband?"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/17/why-didn-t-camille-dump-bill-cosby.html

 

[Slebby]

Non-existent? I certainly hope dissent from a majority opinion does not go away.

There are some majority opinions from which no one should dissent.

How may of us dissent from the majority belief that no one should be discriminated against based on the colour of their skin? Or sexual orientation? Shall we try to preserve that sort of dissent from majority opinion?

Most of us are glad there was an end to slavery, but heck, should folks that dissent from that popular opinion be encouraged to do so?

Attitudes that have evolved for the better include women's rights, gay rights, racial equality, acceptance of different religious beliefs, and so on. What we are seeing lately is a positive shift in attitudes surrounding rape, including a more forward-thinking view that we do not blame rape victims for their rape because of where they were, what they wore, what they drank, etc. The modern position on rape is that the rapist is guilty of the rape.

Of course there are still neanderthals out there who want to keep a woman down, keep the black man in his place, think its ok to bully the gay kid, etc. but I personally do not find their dissent from the more civilized majority position to be laudable.

IMHO of of course.

 

[Trino]

Cognitive dissonance is the answer to the question "why doesn't Camille Cosby leave her husband?"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/17/why-didn-t-camille-dump-bill-cosby.html

Really? I read the entire article. CC is nearly 70 years old. I just don't think this is a good fit/reason.

The author suggests:
"Once you decide to leave a bad marriage, for instance, you will immediately start coming up with reasons to justify why this is a good decision: You start focusing on how fun dating will be, you get excited about having an apartment of your own, you think about what sex with someone new will be like."

 

[Trino]

There are some majority opinions from which no one should dissent.

How may of us dissent from the majority belief that no one should be discriminated against based on the colour of their skin? Or sexual orientation? Shall we try to preserve that sort of dissent from majority opinion?

Most of us are glad there was an end to slavery, but heck, should folks that dissent from that popular opinion be encouraged to do so?

Attitudes that have evolved for the better include women's rights, gay rights, racial equality, acceptance of different religious beliefs, and so on. What we are seeing lately is a positive shift in attitudes surrounding rape, including a more forward-thinking view that we do not blame rape victims for their rape because of where they were, what they wore, what they drank, etc. The modern position on rape is that the rapist is guilty of the rape.

Of course there are still neanderthals out there who want to keep a woman down, keep the black man in his place, think its ok to bully the gay kid, etc. but I personally do not find their dissent from the more civilized majority position to be laudable.

IMHO of of course.

Not black. Very educated. Female. Married. Okay with gay marriage. Anti-bullying. Anti-NRA. Don't think I fit the neanderthal profile either. I simply have another opinion, which I feel you should respect instead of putting someone down. Give me LEGAL proof, not opinions, not someone saying this happened. Thank you.

 

[Slebby]

Really? I read the entire article. CC is nearly 70 years old. I just don't think this is a good fit/reason.

The author suggests:
"Once you decide to leave a bad marriage, for instance, you will immediately start coming up with reasons to justify why this is a good decision: You start focusing on how fun dating will be, you get excited about having an apartment of your own, you think about what sex with someone new will be like."

Yes, but the author also said (BBM)

Leaving may be hard because it means having your heart broken, losing a life you built, or even going through the stress of divorce, so many women stay. “And once a woman decides to stay,” Tavris explained, “she will emphasize the reasons to stay and minimize the importance of the reasons to leave.”

With women put in front of the public to justify staying with bad men, we see these justifications in full bloom. Camille Cosby hints that it’s a conspiracy against her husband. Janay Rice emphasizes the counseling and her husband’s stated regret. Julia Moreno argued that her husband’s alleged victim is the bad guy here. Dottie Sandusky says that her husband is innocent.