Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[wendiesan]

Witness/victim statements/testimony are legal evidence, and are not hearsay. Hearsay is if a witness testifies that they heard a third party report something about an event/crime.

Hey MJ, you're right about the definition of hearsay. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. From what I've read, the preponderance of stories have been first person narratives so it's doubtful, IMO, that the hearsay stories would ever be told in court.

As hearsay, I was referring to a story by Charlotte Laws (http://www.salon.com/2014/11/30/bill_cosby_and_drugging_my_34_year_old_secret/) and another by Michelle Hurd. While Ms. Hurd can certainly can speak to her own experiences, since she didn't see it, she wasn't a witness to what happened between BC and her friend (http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...lt_rape_drugs_feature_in_women_s_stories.html). So, I think the information she's sharing about her friend would be considered hearsay.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/bill-cosbys-lawyer-threatens-new-760073

Bill Cosby's Lawyer Threatens New York Daily News Over "Defamatory" Rape Story

He argues that McKee’s allegations are contradicted by positive comments she’s made about Cosby and her conduct toward him online. The letter refers to her “liking” a YouTube video of Cosby’s comedy and posting a friendly message, a promotional webpage for an acting class in which she mentions her work with Cosby, and an interview in which she said Cosby “treated me wonderfully.”

The letter goes on to call McKee into question due to her previous job as a Las Vegas showgirl, citing the interview in which she is quoted saying she "did a lot of lying” as a showgirl.

Well the youtube liking is clutching at straws I think. My client is innocent because the accuser clicked like on Youtube... You might get a pretty odd picture of me based on all the videos my kids liked on Youtube while it was signed on to my account, and it's easy enough to click the wrong arrow even.

Having been a showgirl doesn't make anyone incapable of telling the truth so I don't count that as evidence of her being a liar. Just as actors are able to tell the truth even though lots of pretending goes on in their dayjob, and stand-up comedians might tell made-up stories for laughs in their routine and come home and tell the truth about their day to their spouses.

Here's what she said about lying:

“I just said I was white, but I’m mixed,” she said. “Back then, it was easier to get doors to open. It wasn’t accepted to be mixed and to have black blood in you. I had to do a lot of lying. I said I was white. And I said I was 23 years old, but I was 16.”

http://www.candgnews.com/Homepage-Articles/2010/07-07-10/Katherine-McKee-showgirl.asp
These lies were apparently intended to land her the job. I don't see anything about her making up false criminal allegations about anybody.

So she lied when she was sixteen and that makes her a liar forever and ever?

And here's the context of the "treated me wonderfully" and she's not speaking about Bill Cosby specifically like Marty Singer lead me to expect but it's a general statement.

“It was my dream come true,” McKee said of that time in her life. “I was fitting myself into this world, with all these big movie stars, and it was exactly what I wanted.”

She had a secret love affair with Johnny Carson. She dated Christopher Walken, Tony Curtis, Ben Gazzara and Clifton Davis. She counts Billy Crystal and Bill Cosby as friends.

“Show business is a whole ‘nother world,” McKee said. “People in show business are out there meeting so many wonderful people, and it’s very common to be in and out of affairs, unless you’re married. You’re in the limelight, people are after you, men are chasing after you. And these were very wonderful, lovely men. They treated me wonderfully.”

By my reading this quote seems to refer to her partners and dates who treated her wonderfully. It surely doesn't mean that she never met any male modsnips imo. According to the NYDN account she wasn't having an affair with Bill Cosby and thought they were just friends so it is doubtful he'd be included in the list. Even this article makes the distinction that there were men she dated and Cosby wasn't one of them. Even though the "they treated me wonderfully" comment comes after the paragraph mentioning Cosby's name it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the order the things came up in the conversation and she didn't have to be thinking about Cosby at all when she made the statement.

I think Marty Singer is trying very very hard but comes off a little deceptive and rather desperate himself. From his letter I expected McKee to have raved on and on about how wonderful Cosby is but there is no such quote. It's not even a direct quote that she counts Bill Cosby as her friend, it's a reporter paraphrase so we don't know exactly what the conversation was. Lots of names seem to have come up in the conversation about who all she knew back then, and who knows, maybe Bill Cosby's name was associated with a wince and a frown, indicating she liked him a little less than the others....But the interview was an "oh it was a happy life" interview and not the sort of situation where she was prepared to come out as a rape victim.

 

[BirdycatNY]

http://www.thecalifornian.com/story/opinion/2014/12/23/investigate-feeding-cosby-mob/20810703/
...No one is advocating that Bill Cosby should be fed to a lynch mob as far as I have seen.
...
Another opinion piece: http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/5228389-cosby-no-laughing-matter/

Mr. DeWayne Wickham's news piece seems a bit simplistic and he's using "trigger" words, like "the lynch mob" (he also uses "salacious" attacks, which is disturbing in itself) "mob" sounds scary it's essentially meant to invoke image of out of control irrational group-think; it's a negative connotation to discourage alleged victims, potential other victims, media and Joe Public from discussing allegations Jmo. The problem is that alleged victims are pretty composed and media and citizens are thinking critically about the allegations against BC and understand seriousness of consequences/ramifications; i.e. if allegations true, then BC slips through the cracks due to SOL and there is sexual predator out and about free to drug/rape women, or if false BC's reputation potentially damaged. No one has pick forks or torches that I'm aware of. Last time I checked BC is not in prison, or restrained from anything. He's had at least 10 years to digest some of these allegations (he resolved one in settlement) and could speak on them if he wants to. Notice Mr. Wickham thinks it's necessary to pick apart Janice Dickinson, but hasn't addressed what BC has/hasn't said or other evidence, just essentially dismissing alleged victims. Nice way for Mr. Wickham to deflect imo, but not best way to find out the truth. Just the facts and truth, please.

In the article, Wickham says "But so far, there's been little investigative reporting by journalists on Cosby's alleged misdeeds." oh, the irony.

Anyway, thanks Donjeta for article links, and here is more information on protest in Hamilton, ON (link below) mentioned in your link.

Hamilton woman planning protest inside Bill Cosby's show
CBC – Thu, 18 Dec, 2014
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/hamilton-woman-planning-protest-inside-185535070.html

"...She said she's never organized something like this before. "I'm a middle-aged mom," she said. "I’m not a gutsy lady. I want this show cancelled," she said. "I’ll do what I have to do but I want it cancelled...""

 

[BirdycatNY]

Why all people have to do is come and tell the same story as is already in the news and there you have it another complaint. It does not make it true.

Making blanket statements like your post doesn't make it real. And it does not make allegations false either. fyi- I linked an article earlier in the thread on incorrect assumptions people make in the sexual assault/rape cases, it's informative. Your post fails to address why there may be some similarities in their alleged accounts too i.e. MO. There may be "copycats" or allegations haven't been proven in court but some/most/all allegations may be true too.

A famous man who has PR firms sending young women to mentor is someone who has power and access, correct? Joe Public doesn't have that kind of clout or access to that many females, but allegedly BC does. We can at least agree for starters that BC most likely had plenty of ACCESS to women, right? So there would be more women making allegations if let's say, hypothetically BC were a serial rapist. For example, Wilt Chamberlain allegedly slept with thousands of women, and never raped them (as far as I know) http://mentalfloss.com/article/12310/did-wilt-chamberlain-really-sleep-20000-women. Hypothetically, if Wilt Chamberlain were a serial rapist though, he would still have access to 1000's of women and would likely have assaulted a good number of the women he had access to. Or let's say there's more money seekers exploiting famous wealthy people? But would a money seeker go about it making types of accusations, if accusations false? If seeking money, would someone go after perpetrator when the evidence was more available or less available to alleged victim/LE? And if seeking money does it mean that alleged victims weren't raped/assaulted? And are all of these alleged victims seeking money? What are they seeking? Do they live in the same area as each other, are they friends?

My initial questions with cases in general that help me filter out noise:
Who has the most to gain if the allegations are true?
Who has the most to gain if the allegations are false?
or the opposite, who has the most to lose if true? If false?

 

[Tulessa]

Did I read that he was in hiding, or was I dreaming? Back to bed............

 

[IzzyBlanche]

In a recent interview, Dyson revealed to MSNBC’s Ed Schultz that at one point years ago, Cosby flipped him off for his criticism. He later apologized, but was not open to his invitation to discuss their differences in a civil manner on Dyson’s then-radio show. Therein lies the problem with Cosby’s comments to Dyson then, his remarks to the New York Post, and the statement released thereafter: Bill Cosby does not like to be challenged.

Much more at link: http://theurbandaily.com/2014/12/24...enough-to-rally-support-he-desperately-needs/

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.kabc.com/common/more.php...ticle=3EB31B356F7411E4B51EFEFDADE6840A&mode=2
Cosby timeline

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

From Izzy's Urban Daily link:

"If Bill Cosby wants the coverage to change in both mainstream and Black media, here’s a tip: Speak up."

 

[BirdycatNY]

http://www.kabc.com/common/more.php...ticle=3EB31B356F7411E4B51EFEFDADE6840A&mode=2
Cosby timeline

The timeline doesn't include Lachelle Covington's accounts that were reported to LE/media in 2000, so here are news articles from back then (Sorry if articles already posted in thread).

Actress Bombshell: 'Cos' Rubbed Me the Wrong Way
By Mark Stamey
March 2, 2000 | 5:00am
http://nypost.com/2000/03/02/actress-bombshell-cos-rubbed-me-the-wrong-way/
"...Lachele Covington, 20, who has appeared on Cosby’s CBS TV show, filed a police report saying the beloved comedian put her hand under his T-shirt and guided it south toward his sweatpants, the sources said..."

BC denies allegations in article(s) below:
Cosby: Tabloid Lied
By Michael Starr
March 8, 2000 | 5:00am
http://nypost.com/2000/03/08/cosby-tabloid-lied/

News/ EOnline
Cos Cracks "Enquirer"
by Mark Armstrong Wed., Mar. 8, 2000 12:00 PM PST
http://www.eonline.com/news/39520/cos-cracks-enquirer
"The National Enquirer says the darndest things. Bill Cosby is threatening a $250 million lawsuit against the oft-targeted tab after it reported that an actress from his CBS series accused him of sexual abuse."
***

Btw- Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to WS posters.

 

[wendiesan]

Merry Christmas sleuthers.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The timeline doesn't include Lachelle Covington's accounts that were reported to LE/media in 2000, so here are news articles from back then (Sorry if articles already posted in thread).

Actress Bombshell: 'Cos' Rubbed Me the Wrong Way
By Mark Stamey
March 2, 2000 | 5:00am
http://nypost.com/2000/03/02/actress-bombshell-cos-rubbed-me-the-wrong-way/
"...Lachele Covington, 20, who has appeared on Cosby’s CBS TV show, filed a police report saying the beloved comedian put her hand under his T-shirt and guided it south toward his sweatpants, the sources said..."

BC denies allegations in article(s) below:
Cosby: Tabloid Lied
By Michael Starr
March 8, 2000 | 5:00am
http://nypost.com/2000/03/08/cosby-tabloid-lied/

News/ EOnline
Cos Cracks "Enquirer"
by Mark Armstrong Wed., Mar. 8, 2000 12:00 PM PST
http://www.eonline.com/news/39520/cos-cracks-enquirer
"The National Enquirer says the darndest things. Bill Cosby is threatening a $250 million lawsuit against the oft-targeted tab after it reported that an actress from his CBS series accused him of sexual abuse."
***

Btw- Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to WS posters.

Oh, so someone DID go to the police at the time.

 

[BirdycatNY]

And if the rape happens within a marriage, the shame and the fear and the lack of support, let alone reluctance to report it, increase exponentially!

Slightly O/T but Joan Collins, says she actually married the actor Maxwell Reed who allegedly drugged and raped her when she was a teenager and her reasons -losing her virginity, shame, and guilt. She is speaking out now because she wants to encourage sexual assault victims/survivors to go to LE, social workers etc. See articles below:

Joan Collins encourages other rape victims to speak out on This Morning
Published: 11:58, Mon, December 15, 2014
http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/547023/Joan-Collins-rape-This-Morning

Why I married the actor who drugged and raped me at 17′ – Joan Collins Reveals…
Posted on Nov 26 2014 - 2:39pm by Nollywood Reporter
http://www.nollywoodmagazine.com/20...oan-collins-reveals.html#sthash.0RKbVl1i.dpuf

Irish actor raped and drugged me, says Joan Collins
Ella Alexander
Published 27/11/2014 | 02:30
http://www.independent.ie/world-new...nd-drugged-me-says-joan-collins-30778416.html

This article below may have been posted but discusses changing views about responsibility in sexual assaults cases.
America’s Bill Cosby awakening: Why the rape allegations are finally sticking; Hannibal Burress and social media raised awareness, but there's also been a sea change in the way we view sex abuse
Amanda Marcotte, AlterNet
Friday, Nov 21, 2014 12:35 PM EST
http://www.salon.com/2014/11/21/ame...ape_allegations_are_finally_sticking_partner/

Something more sobering to think about: odd(s) against alleged incapacitated sexual assault victims/survivors according to author:
Singer Accused of Rape Still Learning What Rape Is
lessons learned September 3, 2014 11:49 a.m.
By Kat Stoeffel Follow @kstoeffel
http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/09/accused-rapist-ceelo-still-learning-what-rape-is.html
“…It an unfortunate loophole of the criminal-justice system that unconscious women can't be witnesses to crimes committed against them, often making those crimes difficult to prosecute…."

On a more encouraging note for incapacitated sexual assault victims/survivors, a recent case where perpetrator pleaded guilty:
CEO accused of drugging, raping female employee pleads guilty
Author: Samantha Ptashkin, Reporter
Published On: Dec 03 2014 03:12:07 PM CST
http://www.click2houston.com/news/c...raping-female-employee-pleads-guilty/30041864
"...Prosecutor Sherri Zach said this is a big victory for the women he's accused of abusing. They no longer have to testify in court..."More importantly, I think it sends a message to anyone out there that may be victimized that if you come forward and you report it to law enforcement, they will investigate, they will believe you," Zach said...."

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.trentonian.com/general-n...d-cosby-in-2000-wants-to-leave-it-in-the-past
By Paul Mickle, The Trentonian

Posted: 12/01/14, 10:45 PM EST |
0 Comments

HAMILTON >> Her mother said local actress and model Lachele Covington won’t be joining the other women brining up old allegations that they were drugged and molested by Bill Cosby.

“That is behind her now and she wants to keep it behind her,’’ Diane Covington told The Trentonian on Monday. Still, she wished luck to the Cosby accusers and said she has always believed her daughter’s story about misconduct by the entertainment icon.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Judd Apatow Rips Bill Cosby: ‘Guys Who Rape a Lot Aren’t Cool’

Producer-director Judd Apatow used Twitter to blast Bill Cosby on Friday after first calling out two Canadian venues where the comedian, accused of rape by multiple alleged victims, is scheduled to perform in January.
“Are you really going to let Bill Cosby perform on your stage January 7?” Apatow tweeted at Toronto’s Centre in the Square.
“You too @BudGardens Jan 8?,” he wrote to another venue. “Is Cosby only popular in Ontario Canada at this point? Do people still find him delightful after 30 accusers?”

http://www.thewrap.com/judd-apatow-rips-bill-cosby-on-twitter-guys-who-rape-a-lot-arent-cool/

 

[wendiesan]

Judd Apatow has been calling for a boycott of BC's tour since at least November, and is still calling for Budweiser Gardens to cancel the show.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2006781/judd-apatow-bill-cosby-rape-allegations/

When asked on Twitter why he’s so anti-Cosby, Judd Apatow tweeted that he has a personal ties to people involved in these allegations.

http://theinterrobang.com/shots-fired-judd-apatow-goes-bill-cosby/

His comments have been reinforced by comedian Patton Oswalt.

… and by the way, how many women have come forward at this point, like thirteen? That means that there’s hundreds. That means that there’s ******ing hundreds. If you see one cockroach there’s a thousand in your house. And they had to sit there for decades while this guy did this over and over again, didn’t lose any sleep, was beloved, and even now, everything is being taken away from him, but at worst he lives in comfy seclusion for the last years of his life. He lives in absolute luxurious exile for the rest of his life. That is one of the horrors of life.

http://www.**************/1657701/a...nown-for-long-fking-time/#Fev36ESvkUG3POu8.99

 

[MyBelle]

But you have no problem assuming 30 women are guilty of making false accusations, even without proof that they're false?



False eyewitness identification is a big problem but that's not what these allegations are about at all. They didn't get attacked in a dark alley and then later say, um, I'm not sure but it looked like Bill Cosby. They knew perfectly well who they were with when they were raped (allegedly).

Of course they knew who they were with. The problem my husband and I are having is that they waited a few decades and now claim they were raped. I was a member of the women's lib movement in the early 70's. I was in what was considered to be a non-traditional profession for women. I declined offers to sleep my way into a promotion but I know women who didn't decline those offers.

These stories that they were there willingly but now, thirty years later, they were raped simply aren't believable, imo.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Of course they knew who they were with. The problem my husband and I are having is that they waited a few decades and now claim they were raped. I was a member of the women's lib movement in the early 70's. I was in what was considered to be a non-traditional profession for women. I declined offers to sleep my way into a promotion but I know women who didn't decline those offers.

These stories that they were there willingly but now, thirty years later, they were raped simply aren't believable, imo.

So we're back to "if they went there willingly, they couldn't have been raped."

I guess any woman who accepts a man's offer of career advice and goes to meet with him willingly about this should just expect to drop her drawers and give it up, or be forced to do so.

 

[Donjeta]

Being somewhere is not synonymous with having sex, and going somewhere willingly is not the same as consenting to a sex act. JMO.

Please teach your sons this, it might save them from a rape conviction.

 

[MyBelle]

So we're back to "if they went there willingly, they couldn't have been raped."

I guess any woman who accepts a man's offer of career advice and goes to meet with him willingly about this should just expect to drop her drawers and give it up, or be forced to do so.

Was it career advice Janice Dickinson was seeking when she allowed Bill Cosby to pay her airfare so she could join him at his hotel? Feel free to believe that but I sure as heck don't. If you are invited to a hotel room by a man, don't go and then wait 30 years to cry rape.

 

[Donjeta]

Even if a woman was perfectly willing to have consensual sex with a man in order to further her career, it would still be a crime to drug her unconscious and have his way with her in a manner that she did not consent to.