Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[SwampMama]

I don't buy it and the more that come forward makes it seems more unlikely to me.

Can you please explain why having more victims means it is more unlikely that it happened? That doesn't make sense to me. Is there some other reasoning that you have why these women are coming forward? What do they have to gain?

I have a question. I hope that some of these women have sought counseling and have confided some of the details to a counselor. So if some of these women can come up with documentation from years past that shows they have told their story to a reputable person like that, and all the details match, would you then believe it?

 

[Donjeta]

FWIW, Cindra Ladd says she told her roommate at the time (I have no idea if the roommate is reputable or even alive to confirm or deny anything).

 

[Morag]

Most of us have no trouble understanding why these women, these many, many women, didn't report what happened to them when it happened, and I won't bother to once again elucidate.

Since almost none of these women have thus far requested money, and only one or perhaps two--thus far--have reported within the statute of limitations, I/we are left with a big question--- why in the world would these women have come forward except to tell the truth?

Why would long-married, wealthy philanthropist Cindra Ladd tell a lie about being raped? Why would beautiful and successful model Beverly Johnson tell a lie about being drugged? Why would the 72-year-old 'very wealthy' skiing grandmother from New Hampshire
tell a lie about being raped? The 70 year-old successful lawyer? And all the other women?

They weren't seeking attention. None of them, famous or not, want to have this known about her: Cosby saw her naked. Cosby forced his penis into her vagina while she was unconscious.

Everyone here understands 'innocent unless proven guilty' applies to the court system.

As far as I'm concerned, all these women are 'truthful unless shown to be liars'.

Once again, I ask why did they come forward?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Most of us have no trouble understanding why these women, these many, many women, didn't report what happened to them when it happened, and I won't bother to once again elucidate.

Since almost none of these women have thus far requested money, and only one or perhaps two--thus far--have reported within the statute of limitations, I/we are left with a big question--- why in the world would these women have come forward except to tell the truth?

Why would long-married, wealthy philanthropist Cindra Ladd tell a lie about being raped? Why would beautiful and successful model Beverly Johnson tell a lie about being drugged? Why would the 72-year-old 'very wealthy' skiing grandmother from New Hampshire
tell a lie about being raped? The 70 year-old successful lawyer? And all the other women?

They weren't seeking attention. None of them, famous or not, want to have this known about her: Cosby saw her naked. Cosby forced his penis into her vagina while she was unconscious.

Everyone here understands 'innocent unless proven guilty' applies to the court system.

As far as I'm concerned, all these women are 'truthful unless shown to be liars'.

Once again, I ask why did they come forward?

All good Questions but again. questions.
I don't know if any of this is true. I just can not believe that he did this to dozens of women and it was never known before now. Sometimes people remember wrong or according to their conscience. Since there is no proof of contact or witness, until there is proof of evidence beyond an accounting from decades ago, I just can't believe it.

 

[Morag]

All good Questions but again. questions.
I don't know if any of this is true. I just can not believe that he did this to dozens of women and it was never known before now. Sometimes people remember wrong or according to their conscience. Since there is no proof of contact or witness, until there is proof of evidence beyond an accounting from decades ago, I just can't believe it.

I'd still like to know why some people think these women came forward if not to tell the truth.

And I wonder why the U.S. Navy demoted Cosby after 50 years?

And why did Spelman College suspend the Cosby professorship 28 years after Cosby gave them $20 million to endow it? Why were they not magnanimous enough to give him the benefit of the doubt?

And why did Temple University ease Cosby off its board despite his generous donations?

And why did NBC drop its plans for a new Cosby show, despite the millions/billions they made off him through the years?

These very large organizations and businesses have benefitted immensely from their association with Cosby (not sure about the Navy!), and yet they dropped him like a hot potato. He's never going to be on NBC or CBS late shows. More than a few of his fellow comedians and actors have shunned him. And yet some persist in insisting that the women are making it up because, well, he was Dr. Huxtable and he was such a great dad. He played a great character on tv, but his character is far from great.

He doesn't have to prove his innocence to me, or to any one else. And I don't have to prove him guilty in order to believe the women.

 

[BirdycatNY]

Forensic proof is long gone. Also, when you are incapacitated to the point of being unable to give consent, it's easy for a person to have sex with you and not incur any bruises/scratches/scrapes, which would be indicative of a rape/putting up a fight. I don't find it hard to believe at all that back in the 60's, when "date rape" wasn't even a term, that people would be afraid to speak up. It's similar to child molestation.....the lay of the land (no pun intended) back then was to remain silent.

ETA: I'm just adding this as my personal experience that may or may not have happened to one or more of these women, and I'm still loathe to provide this amount of personal information about myself. In my case, I did not even find out until 3 weeks later that sex had occurred. I was assured by this nice man, the next morning when I woke up with no recollection of the night before and barely clothed, that nothing at all had happened. He was charming and reassuring, protective-like (much like I'd imagine Bill Cosby would be). It wasn't until 3 weeks later when we were HIKING that he casually told me that yes, we had sex that night. I didn't even believe him at first since (thought he was kidding) because I thought he was being honest the first time, which was the first night we met. His excuse was that he thought I was being "demure" because I was embarrassed that we'd done that at on the first date and he insisted I was "very into it." I didn't believe a word of it and never saw him again. Now, how exactly would I have gone about pressing charges against this person 3 weeks after the fact when I put myself into a precarious position, consuming alcohol on a first date? I'm not going to go into detail about what led up to that night/where we went on our date, but it was basically a typical date where cocktails and casual conversation were involved and that's it. At least that was all it was supposed to be. Until I couldn't remember anything after a specific period of time (where I went to the bathroom.)

TTF14, thank you for sharing your story. For those of us that have experienced similar or know someone who has been roofied/sexually assaulted, the fear and mental/physical violation is all too real. My guess is most victims/survivors don't go to LE and it's easier to suppress it.

One of the most disturbing issue(s) for me with this case, if allegations true, is that it's not a one time deal. It almost seems like a "lifestyle" for alleged perpetrator and that type of perpetrator is dangerous for everyone. Many victims don't talk because of some of the reason(s) you mentioned and it is difficult to go to LE because of shame/brain fog etc., people may not take you seriously and then it's difficult to prosecute. Sexual assault/drug-facilitated rape and similar type of crime(s) are so deranged and heinous, yet easy to commit and difficult to prosecute. How sick is that? And how sick is someone who commits these type of crimes? One act of drug facilitated sexual assault/ sexual assault is disturbing in and of itself, but multiple alleged acts is SERIOUSLY pathological regardless of the perpetrator. Sometimes perpetrators crimes evolve and that's what also concerns me about serial sexual assault/drug-facilitated cases. Society and laws need to keep up with these issues because sexual assault/drug-facilitated rape is dangerous and can just as easily happen to men as women, so it's not just a "female" fight.

Always JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'd still like to know why some people think these women came forward if not to tell the truth.

And I wonder why the U.S. Navy demoted Cosby after 50 years?

And why did Spelman College suspend the Cosby professorship 28 years after Cosby gave them $20 million to endow it? Why were they not magnanimous enough to give him the benefit of the doubt?

And why did Temple University ease Cosby off its board despite his generous donations?

And why did NBC drop its plans for a new Cosby show, despite the millions/billions they made off him through the years?

These very large organizations and businesses have benefitted immensely from their association with Cosby (not sure about the Navy!), and yet they dropped him like a hot potato. He's never going to be on NBC or CBS late shows. More than a few of his fellow comedians and actors have shunned him. And yet some persist in insisting that the women are making it up because, well, he was Dr. Huxtable and he was such a great dad. He played a great character on tv, but his character is far from great.

He doesn't have to prove his innocence to me, or to any one else. And I don't have to prove him guilty in order to believe the women.

People come forward and don't always tell the truth. That is just fact. Sad but still fact. I don't believe them. I just don't. It just makes my hinky meter shake.
Maybe down the road something will change that but for now, their story alone is not enough for me to believe that he is the monster they are saying he is.
I also understand how hard it may be for people to understand my POV in this. But I have seen other prosecutions where people came forward and claimed things and it just was not true. I need to keep clear until I have proof that changes my mind.

 

[Morag]

People come forward and don't always tell the truth....

And when serial criminals are brought forth for questioning, they never tell the truth.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

And when serial criminals are brought forth for questioning, they never tell the truth.

That is not the point here. This is not a questioning or court case. These people don't have to be cross examined or put under oath. Criminals lie. yes but they get their day in the court just the same. But people come forward and lie. And until they can be cross examined I just can not automatically believe them, just because they say so.

 

[Montjoy]

That is not the point here. This is not a questioning or court case. These people don't have to be cross examined or put under oath. Criminals lie. yes but they get their day in the court just the same. But people come forward and lie. And until they can be cross examined I just can not automatically believe them, just because they say so.

How do you know that Bill Cosby isn't lying? You've basically accused the women of slander before -- that doesn't seem to be an accusation that Cosby or his lawyers seem comfortable to make. And yet, you repeatedly imply that Bill Cosby is telling the truth, but that 20+ women are lying, even though you have absolutely no basis for making either assumption.

It makes me so sad to see how deeply ingrained misogyny remains, even in the 21st century.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

How do you know that Bill Cosby isn't lying? You've basically accused the women of slander before -- that doesn't seem to be an accusation that Cosby or his lawyers seem comfortable to make. And yet, you repeatedly imply that Bill Cosby is telling the truth, but that 20+ women are lying, even though you have absolutely no basis for making either assumption.

It makes me so sad to see how deeply ingrained misogyny remains, even in the 21st century.

I have not accused anyone of anything. I am just giving my opinion on what rings true for ME.
I don't believe that innocent people have to prove they are innocent. I believe people need to be proven guilty. Right now that is not happening.

People have lied in the past. Sometimes a lot of people about the same thing.

 

[Montjoy]

I have not accused anyone of anything. I am just giving my opinion on what rings true for ME.

Yes, and what rings true for YOU appears to be the word of a man who has been accused of rape by over 20 women.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes, and what rings true for YOU appears to be the word of a man who has been accused of rape by over 20 women.

In your opinion.

Isn't there room for people who think something different? Are we to be belittled because we may not think about things the same way as others?

He has not been found guilty of anything. Not even charged.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

There is plenty of room for people to think something different. And I haven't seen any belittling.

However, most people who think something different support their opposing views with cogent, logical arguments based on known facts, rather than cliches like "just because someone says something doesn't make it true;" the readings of their own personal "hinky meter;" statements of disbelief unaccompanied by explanations of the basis of that disbelief besides "I just don't [believe them];" and statements that the accusers are not to be believed without proof while simultaneously refusing to define specifically what would constitute believable "proof" and when asked, sidestep the question with answers like "I should think it would be obvious. Proof."

And further dissembling by saying in one post, "But people come forward and lie. And until they can be cross examined I just can not automatically believe them, just because they say so" and then turning right around and in another post, denying accusing the women of lying .

In a high school classroom, a persuasive essay in which the author based the thesis on such "evidence" would earn an F for sure.

JMO of course.

 

[Donjeta]

In your opinion.

Isn't there room for people who think something different? Are we to be belittled because we may not think about things the same way as others?

He has not been found guilty of anything. Not even charged.

The women have not been found guilty of making false accusations either.

All good Questions but again. questions.
I don't know if any of this is true. I just can not believe that he did this to dozens of women and it was never known before now. Sometimes people remember wrong or according to their conscience. Since there is no proof of contact or witness, until there is proof of evidence beyond an accounting from decades ago, I just can't believe it.

So basically the women must prove that they're innocent of lying until you can presume them not guilty.

JMO lying is one thing but I find mistaken memories to be a little far fetched explanation to all this. Granted, after 30 or 40 years the details of events may be growing hazy and maybe they were hazy to begin with if drugs or alcohol were involved, but I find it extremely unlikely that 30 unconnected women of different ages and backgrounds, some of whom seem very well spoken, professionally competent, reasonable and not at all demented, would all just accidentally happen to have the false recollection that Bill Cosby drugged and raped them thirty or forty years ago or attempted to if nothing like that ever happened. Many mass hysteria cases have been impressionable teenagers who live close to each other or go to the same school and have contact with others with the same complaint.

 

[TTF14]

In your opinion.

Isn't there room for people who think something different? Are we to be belittled because we may not think about things the same way as others?

He has not been found guilty of anything. Not even charged.

SS, do you believe Bill Cosby is telling the truth?

 

[Donjeta]

What is Bill Cosby even saying the truth is? Is he on record anywhere saying "I did not rape any of those women"?

What do we even have straight from Bill Cosby? We've got statements from his PR team, statements from his lawyers, statements from his family invoking the excellent reputation of the good Dr. Huxtable (who is in fact a fictional character), and long silences, refusals to comment and neat sidesteps from Bill Cosby. Yeah, I know he's not obligated to say anything but how freaking hard is it to say "I did not drug and rape anyone" if this is in fact true. It's difficult for me to see how a statement this could be used to incriminate him in anything.

Instead he invokes God and reaffirms his healing powers.

"Dear Fans: GOD has Blessed me with a wonderful gift to share with all of my fans. For 53 years I have continued to master this gift, which heals the soul and warms hearts, Laughter!" Cosby wrote in a message posted in the Sandusky Register. "I thank you, the theatre staff (Sandusky State Theater), the event organizers and the Sandusky Community for your continued support and coming to experience family, fun entertainment. Let's Do It Again -- I'm Far From Finished."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/b...ith-gift-to-heal-the-soul-warm-hearts-133036/

And let's not forget that his team of spin doctors was actually forced to backtrack and say that when they said the allegations were discredited it didn't mean Andrea Constand's allegations were.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cuser-Andrea-Constand-2006.html#ixzz3Q7mx0Cqv
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One of his lawyers said,

The earlier statement, issued over the weekend, referred to 'decade-old, discredited allegations' against Cosby, stating that 'the fact that they are being repeated does not make them true.
...

In a statement posted online, attorney John P. Schmitt said the fact that the allegations are being repeated does not make them true.He doesn't intend to 'dignify' the allegations with a comment.

To me this is not even quite the same as saying the allegations are untrue. Being old doesn't make them untrue. It's true that being repeated doesn't make them true but this being true doesn't exactly make them false either. And refusing to dignify them with a comment doesn't make them untrue...

 

[AlwaysShocked]

People come forward and don't always tell the truth. That is just fact. Sad but still fact. I don't believe them. I just don't. It just makes my hinky meter shake.
Maybe down the road something will change that but for now, their story alone is not enough for me to believe that he is the monster they are saying he is.
I also understand how hard it may be for people to understand my POV in this. But I have seen other prosecutions where people came forward and claimed things and it just was not true. I need to keep clear until I have proof that changes my mind.

But it was known before now. It became a matter of public record when the first woman filed the lawsuit against him in Philadelphia. The one that had 13 other women lined up to testify. But the press gave the whole story a pass at the time. (Probably found it hard to believe that the warm and fuzzy Dr. Huxtable was actually a monster underneath his warm and fuzzy sweater.)

Miss Scarlett, you are certainly entitled to both your opinions and your hinky meter. I don't think there is a desire here to see you belittled. It looks to me like more of a desire to educate you. Forgive me, but you do seem to be a bit naïve. Not that I think most of us here would have thought "Oh, yeah. That Bill Cosby, he fits the picture of a serial rapist."

Speaking of hinky meters, as I wrote early on, my own was going off years ago. I was never a fan of Cosby, and there was just something I never liked about him. Couldn't put my finger on it, but it was there. I think I watched that TV show once. Didn't like it. Never watched it again.

I just watched a clip of Phyllicia Rashad on some show defending him. Poor woman.

One last thing, I am now wondering if Cosby didn't in fact have some sort of a reputation "behind the scenes". The reason I think this is that those TV networks and universities WERE extremely fast in dropping him. I mean like, bingo, goodbye. Despite all his donations. I think somebody knew something.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

People come forward and don't always tell the truth. That is just fact. Sad but still fact. I don't believe them. I just don't. It just makes my hinky meter shake.
Maybe down the road something will change that but for now, their story alone is not enough for me to believe that he is the monster they are saying he is.
I also understand how hard it may be for people to understand my POV in this. But I have seen other prosecutions where people came forward and claimed things and it just was not true. I need to keep clear until I have proof that changes my mind.

Everyone has a right to believe as they wish.

But you have my interest peeked in this post.

What are the cases you are referring to if I may ask?

I cant ever remember reading about a case where 30 adults or multiple adult victims were all lying against one defendant.

Which case had multiple adults victims who claimed rape against one person and they all turned out to be lying? I would be very interested in reading such case or cases.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Ocean Blue Eyes,

IMO you are wasting your keystrokes. She has been asked this question numerous times and has not answered yet. I don't expect she will this time either. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.