Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Oh my, just change the topics a little and this resembles many, many conversations I have had with my mom in which I bring up an issue I'm concerned about or hurt over and she manages to somehow recast the situation into a different light in which I am the one at fault.

Empathetic hugs to you. We're off the thread topic here but PM capability exists for a reason.

thank you...

sorry I derailed the thread...

:hug:

 

[wendiesan]

Hang in there IHNC.

And meanwhile back....

On Riverton Street in NYC, street artist FLOOD has added his commentary through his wheatpaste art outside of Fat Baby, a restaurant, Lower East Side of Manhattan.
http://hyperallergic.com/178022/street-artist-tells-bill-cosby-to-fess-up/

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Bill Cosby's show in northern Ohio draws a few protesters

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/01/bill_cosbys_show_in_northern_o.html

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

SS, do you believe Bill Cosby is telling the truth?

At this point I do. I think that what happened in an age of drugs and sexual freedom may be being looked at with 2014 goggles and not 1960's goggles and I think that it is possible that what they say happened may not have happened that way at all.

I do think that he had relations outside his marriage and that is an issue for him and Camille, but rape is a crime and so far I don't see evidence of that other than personal accountings.

I know that bothers people but I can not just believe people because they say something happened. I need independent evidence.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But it was known before now. It became a matter of public record when the first woman filed the lawsuit against him in Philadelphia. The one that had 13 other women lined up to testify. But the press gave the whole story a pass at the time. (Probably found it hard to believe that the warm and fuzzy Dr. Huxtable was actually a monster underneath his warm and fuzzy sweater.)

Miss Scarlett, you are certainly entitled to both your opinions and your hinky meter. I don't think there is a desire here to see you belittled. It looks to me like more of a desire to educate you. Forgive me, but you do seem to be a bit naïve. Not that I think most of us here would have thought "Oh, yeah. That Bill Cosby, he fits the picture of a serial rapist."

Speaking of hinky meters, as I wrote early on, my own was going off years ago. I was never a fan of Cosby, and there was just something I never liked about him. Couldn't put my finger on it, but it was there. I think I watched that TV show once. Didn't like it. Never watched it again.

I just watched a clip of Phyllicia Rashad on some show defending him. Poor woman.

One last thing, I am now wondering if Cosby didn't in fact have some sort of a reputation "behind the scenes". The reason I think this is that those TV networks and universities WERE extremely fast in dropping him. I mean like, bingo, goodbye. Despite all his donations. I think somebody knew something.

I don't need to be educated.. but thanks..

I have to stick to what works for me when weighing the cases or complaints.

 

[Donjeta]

At this point I do. I think that what happened in an age of drugs and sexual freedom may be being looked at with 2014 goggles and not 1960's goggles and I think that it is possible that what they say happened may not have happened that way at all.

I do think that he had relations outside his marriage and that is an issue for him and Camille, but rape is a crime and so far I don't see evidence of that other than personal accountings.

I know that bothers people but I can not just believe people because they say something happened. I need independent evidence.

So you never believe anyone if they say they were raped unless they can prove it in a court of law? Or just these ladies?

They did not all say it happened in the swinging sixties. Andrea Constand's case was ten years ago and she wasn't even born in the 1960s yet.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So you never believe anyone if they say they were raped unless they can prove it in a court of law? Or just these ladies?

I believe that if you are going to wait 40 years and then come out to the media, You have taken some of your credibility away. I believe that you have to have more than just your word. What if someone accused you of rape? Or child molestation? Would you want people to just take their word for it? Do you know how many claims of Rape or child molestation have been proven to be false claims? How many people have gone to prison and served terms for crimes they did not commit?
I am sorry I believe it is better for a guilty man to go free than an innocent man to be condemned.

 

[Donjeta]

I believe that if you are going to wait 40 years and then come out to the media, You have taken some of your credibility away. I believe that you have to have more than just your word. What if someone accused you of rape? Or child molestation? Would you want people to just take their word for it? Do you know how many claims of Rape or child molestation have been proven to be false claims? How many people have gone to prison and served terms for crimes they did not commit?
I am sorry I believe it is better for a guilty man to go free than an innocent man to be condemned.

Well to me believing someone was raped or not is not really a matter of whether the alleged perp wants people to take the victim's word for it or not. Innocent or not, of course none of them want people to believe it, so that's sort of irrelevant in determining the truth value of the claims.


The more relevant question is, did it happen?

Plenty of rape victims take their time coming forward and many never do so that doesn't necessarily ruin anyone's credibility in my mind.

How do you feel about condemning innocent rape victims for crimes they didn't commit, such as making up false allegations?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well to me believing someone was raped or not is not really a matter of whether the alleged perp wants people to take the victim's word for it or not. Innocent or not, of course none of them want people to believe it, so that's sort of irrelevant in determining the truth value of the claims.


The more relevant question is, did it happen?

Plenty of rape victims take their time coming forward and many never do so that doesn't necessarily ruin anyone's credibility in my mind.

How do you feel about condemning innocent rape victims for crimes they didn't commit, such as making up false allegations?

I find that naive and since neither of us have spent 20 years in prison for a rape we did not commit, I believe it would be relevant to those men.

The truth is that false accusations happen. And it is easier to make them when there is no justice system to have to prove your allegations through. Anyone can say anything without any kind of challenge.

I won't find a man guilty without a trial and a chance to face his accusers in a criminal court.

 

[Donjeta]

I find that naive and since neither of us have spent 20 years in prison for a rape we did not commit, I believe it would be relevant to those men.

The truth is that false accusations happen. And it is easier to make them when there is no justice system to have to prove your allegations through. Anyone can say anything without any kind of challenge.

I won't find a man guilty without a trial and a chance to face his accusers in a criminal court.

There is no danger anyone will be spending 20 years in prison without a trial and a chance to face his accusers in a criminal court.

It is not naive to recognize the fact that rapes take place and a lot of the time the perp gets away with it.

You did not respond my question about the possibility of condemning innocent rape victims as liars. Does it worry you at all?

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.delawareonline.com/story...ainment-industry-enabled-bill-cosby/22619615/

I didn’t have a father growing up. The father I created was an amalgam of advertising images and Dr. Huxtable.

So it’s understandable for fans to reflexively want to protect Cosby by casting doubt on his accusers. We aren’t used to seeing monsters who don’t look like monsters. Cosby is a complicated villain who made an entire industry complicit in his sex crimes. It’s now clear Bill Cosby, the man, is more fit for a Shakespeare drama than a half-hour situation comedy.

If you talk to people in the Cosby-sphere (which I have), his assaulting women has been an open secret for a very long time. So forgive me for not calling him an alleged rapist. He’s an enabled rapist.

One victim is a crime – more than 30 is a criminal enterprise. And just like in the mob, if you’re an earner, you’re protected. The moment Cosby was no longer bankable, the allegations suddenly stuck.

I commend those responsible for canceling Cosby’s new projects after more than a dozen women came forward. A Cosby crony, former NBC employee Frank Scotti, told the Daily News he paid off women for the comedian in the 1980s. Besides Scotti, there are plenty of others who knew this was going on and did nothing. Those who at best looked the other way and at worst supplied the family friendly fraud with young girls.

As a television viewing public, once we get past not believing three-dozen women and finally admit Cosby is a serial rapist, the next phase is even more uncomfortable. It’s realizing there’s an industry we love and admire that fostered, promoted and profited off a Cosby. Who was going to stop the gravy train just because a couple of models got hurt? Apparently no one.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Do you know how many claims of Rape or child molestation have been proven to be false claims?

Snipped for focus.

No, I don't. You speak as if you do. But you continually refuse to share examples.

We agree on one thing: "I cannot just believe people because they say something happened. I need independent evidence."

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Snipped for focus.

No, I don't. You speak as if you do. But you continually refuse to share examples.

We agree on one thing: "I cannot just believe people because they say something happened. I need independent evidence."

Just google it. There is a player in the NFL that was just cleared of rape charges after serving years in prison. It is not hard to find. There are many many men who have been convicted of rape only to be cleared later with DNA and then have lost years of their lives.

There is no shortage of men who have gone to prison and then been freed and cleared. That is what the innocence project is all about.

 

[Donjeta]

Likewise, there is no shortage of men who got away with raping people.

Fittingly, Bill Cosby received a standing ovation at the Sandusky state theatre...

http://fox8.com/2015/01/30/bill-cosby-fills-sandusky-state-theatre-receives-standing-ovation/

The innocence project is mostly about, "yeah she was raped and murdered but it was somebody else, not me". It's usually not about, "Yeah it was me who raped her but she wanted it so there and what was she doing in my hotel room anyway if she didn't want to be drugged"

Most of the time with the Innocence project there is no suspicion that the victims are not really victims, the only question is whether the alleged perps are the real perps. The Bill Cosby case has nothing to do with the DNA matches of the innocence project really as they are not looking to ID unknown attackers. Also, I don't remember anybody who was freed by the innocence project who had 30 different women alleging that he sexually assaulted them at different times

 

[Nova]

I know that bothers people but I can not just believe people because they say something happened. I need independent evidence.

So in your world, rape is not a crime. Except in those extremely rare instances where a third-party witnesses the attack.

There is rarely any forensic evidence from a rape that cannot also be explained as energetic-but-consensual sex.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I believe that if you are going to wait 40 years and then come out to the media, You have taken some of your credibility away. I believe that you have to have more than just your word. What if someone accused you of rape? Or child molestation? Would you want people to just take their word for it? Do you know how many claims of Rape or child molestation have been proven to be false claims? How many people have gone to prison and served terms for crimes they did not commit?
I am sorry I believe it is better for a guilty man to go free than an innocent man to be condemned.

There are dozens of men and women that are coming forward now and speaking out about BC. Do you really think this is some kind of conspiracy to defame him and if so, what would be the reason?

Do you not think that these women haven't had many, many encounters with other men in their careers and lives during that time period, where you say that their "judgement may have been clouded" by the era?

These women would have encountered many men that would have wanted to have sex with them. Why do you think countless women would be singling out BC over all the others, unless he was a predator? Why are others that were present during that time and observed his behavior also speaking out?

The difference between the "era" is people are speaking out now. They are older and wiser about what they witnessed. They are not going to sit back and act like there was nothing wrong with what he did.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So in your world, rape is not a crime. Except in those extremely rare instances where a third-party witnesses the attack.

There is rarely any forensic evidence from a rape that cannot also be explained as energetic-but-consensual sex.

Hmm, I don't think I ever said that. Rape is a crime. No doubt.

The point is there is still evidence of contact and and act. And it is brought into a court of law to be examined and challenged. That is how we tell good evidence from bad. What stands up to scrutiny and what doesn't. In this case that can not happen. It matters to me. It is okay if that matters not to anyone else. But there is a reason there is a statute of limitations.

At this point he is not guilty of anything. I don't think he ever will be but if there is a case brought with evidence that supports the accounting I will rethink my position.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Hmm, I don't think I ever said that. Rape is a crime. No doubt.

The point is there is still evidence of contact and and act. And it is brought into a court of law to be examined and challenged. That is how we tell good evidence from bad. What stands up to scrutiny and what doesn't. In this case that can not happen. It matters to me. It is okay if that matters not to anyone else. But there is a reason there is a statute of limitations.

At this point he is not guilty of anything. I don't think he ever will be but if there is a case brought with evidence that supports the accounting I will rethink my position.

If it happened to you or you witnessed it with your own eyes, would you feel differently? I would hope so. That is what all these people are saying.

Again, I see no reason for some kind of giant conspiracy against BC. I think the puzzle pieces add up for themselves.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Just google it. There is a player in the NFL that was just cleared of rape charges after serving years in prison. It is not hard to find. There are many many men who have been convicted of rape only to be cleared later with DNA and then have lost years of their lives.

There is no shortage of men who have gone to prison and then been freed and cleared. That is what the innocence project is all about.

You cite one example. One example is not "many, many."

Show me some independent evidence of "many, many," please, not just one example. The key word is many. Does it happen? I'm sure it does. Does it happen to many, many men? I'm skeptical.

 

[wendiesan]

FWIW
The Smithsonian has shown no inclination to shorten the length of the joint exhibit of African American Art from both the Camille O. and William H. Cosby Collection and the National Museum of African Art. The exhibit opened Nov. 9, 2014 and is scheduled to run until early 2016.
http://newsdesk.si.edu/releases/bil...ion-smithsonian-s-national-museum-african-art

Slate ran an interesting article regarding this situation, along with the comments that

The allegations against Cosby, it should be noted, are not new; they’ve been out in the public arena, reported on, and written about, for a decade now. There’s no question that museum staff would have known about them when the Cosby exhibition was being conceived and planned; what they didn’t and couldn’t know is how the charges—and the attention given to them—would escalate right around the time of the opening of the show.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...ed_by_smithsonian_museum_should_its_show.html

Jillian Steinhauer discusses some pertinent aspects about the politics of running an exhibit like this, and, in fact, museums in general.

This is the painting that has been used to publicize the exhibit.